3 furnaces, can I go wrong with one or other

[lobo11]

I have been lurking, but first post. I got quotes from three reputable HVAC contractors for a new furnaces.

1. Bryant 95S
2. Lennox G61V
3. Nordyne 95% 2-stage variable

The three systems have almost identical specs. & features according to literature. I can get them to the exact same 10 year parts and 10 year labor for a price (Lennox is coming in at 10/10 in the quote). They are listed above in terms of price highest to lowest. My question is all things being equal ( I liked both installers--tossed out the Ammana contractor because he did a poor job evaluating my house, no load calculation, etc.) Can I go wrong with one vs. the other?

Thanks in advance.

[phbsales]

I have been lurking, but first post. I got quotes from three reputable HVAC contractors for a new furnaces.

1. Bryant 95S
2. Lennox G61V
3. Nordyne 95% 2-stage variable

The three systems have almost identical specs. & features according to literature. I can get them to the exact same 10 year parts and 10 year labor for a price (Lennox is coming in at 10/10 in the quote). They are listed above in terms of price highest to lowest. My question is all things being equal ( I liked both installers--tossed out the Ammana contractor because he did a poor job evaluating my house, no load calculation, etc.) Can I go wrong with one vs. the other?

Thanks in advance.


Installation is key. Which contractor do you feel most comfortable with?

[lobo11]

I feel comfortable with both, though my father has a good history with the Bryant dealer. I am confident of a good install and service from both places, both have really solid reputations in my area. Obviously I will not post prices but the cost of the Nordyne unit is what I would call significantly less than the other two--even after adding some $ to bump the labor warranty up to 10 years. While lurking I have not seen a lot of negatives about Nordyne units, and a lot of comments saying install is key to long life and trouble free operation. The one dealer sells both the Nordyne and Lennox, and obviously he said they would not carry the Nordyne if it was not a quality built unit. It is a large outfit, and he said about half the employees have Lennox & half the Nordyne units. he said he would not say that those with the Lennox units are anymore satisfied than those with the Nordyne. The warranty would be 10 & 10 for both units. At this point I am leaning between these two units from the same installer, so everything but the units should be the same. Thanks.

[phbsales]

You will find that most people on this forum are partial to certain equipment manufacturers, including myself.

You have stated that you are leaning more toward the contractor offering Lennox and Nordyne.

Ultimately, the decision is yours......:D

[Mr Bill]

In my opinion I would go with the Ruud modulating furnace, Why? because it is a true modulating furnace. The gas valve is not a simple two stage gas valve it actually modulates by a signal from a matched thermostat. The output of the furnace exactly meets the heat loss of the structure and the outlet temperature remains constant by adjusting the VS fan to match the btuh value. It ranges between 40 and 100% output. Direct spark, Diagnostics that on a seven segment LED (actual number) and dignostic history.If the Mod thermostat is not used, you can still connect a 2 stage stat and get 3 or 4 stages of heat in a "quazi-modulation" mode. For the same money as the other 2 stage variable speed furnaces. It is also set up for 2 stage cooling applications as well, just my two cents. :D

[BaldLoonie]

I love Rheem's Mod too!

Of the 3 listed, I'd go the Bryant first but only with the Evolution control to take advantage of the features in heating & cooling that furnace is capable of.

Next I'd take the Nordyne (mine is waiting for me to get around to installing it) as they are a decent furnace with a great warranty.

But again, the best dealer!!!

[lobo11]

So the Nordyne is a quality unit? I am pleasantly surprised to see you would take it over the Lennox. The Rheem dealer was also the Amana dealer, and I was not comfortable with them. I specifically asked about the Rheem but they really pushed the Amana. He claimed they had fewer problems and service calls with the Amana, they really were not interested in talking Rheem, I doubt they would have mentioned it if I hadn't brought it up. Just for reference (no specific price) the Bryant unit quote was $761 more than the Nordyne, a pretty significant chunk of change in my mind. I am hoping any major problems that might arise would come within that 10 year warranty period regardless of furnace. Of course all have lifetime heat exchanger warranty. I just want to make sure the Nordyne is a solid unit, and since you would take it over the Lennox, I guess that tells me something about at least one professional's opinion. Thanks. Still processing all information I can get my hands on.

[Mr Bill]

I specifically asked about the Rheem but they really pushed the Amana. He claimed they had fewer problems and service calls with the Amana, they really were not interested in talking Rheem,

Well you should find you a real Rheem/RUUD Dealer and let him explain the Mod. and you would forget about all the other
furnaces.
This is the kind of crap the Home Owner has to deal with when company's are allowed to sell two major brands, it's
a lose/lose situation.

By the way the Nordyne is a quality unit and there a/c unit is also the future of comfort with the IQ compressor, read
up some on that.

[lobo11]

I assume the modulated Rheem is similar in design to the Lennox G71P where the gas output and fan rise in increments of 1% from 40-100%. That baby was pricy, pretty much out of the top end that I was willing to pay. Maybe the Rheem unit is more reasonably priced. It is still only 95% AFUE though, correct? Just more of a quiet, control, and comfort level benefit??? Yeah, the guy was real pushy toward the Amana, maybe a higher profit margin on those units? The other contractor with the Nordyne and Lennox did not push one more than the other. He just presented me with models in the performance area I was looking at, went over each, and answered all questions/concerns. Thanks again.

[frankt]

I have two Rheem/Ruud Mods and can tell you they are the Cats Ass. Great units!

[Alden_Sloe]

If you go to the Rheem website (http://www.rheemac.com/)they'll have a list of all the dealers in your area. I really liked the build quality of Rheem and if it had been furnace only I'd likely have gone that route. Price/performance steered me toward a York hybrid heat pump system. York also makes a true modulating furnace but I don't think it has the track record of the Rheem/Ruud.

If the Nordyne is substantially cheaper make sure that it's a true variable speed blower. Specs should say something like EMC fan or DC fan. Sometimes the marketing speak will call a two speed PSC motor "variable".

[shoretrade]

Haven't heard anyone recommend the Coleman mod furnace with the ECM blower. I just installed a couple of them and really like them.

http://colemanac.com/dealers/ProductPage.asp?id=2828&t=r

I also have no problem with the Nordyne stuff.

[Alden_Sloe]

Haven't heard anyone recommend the Coleman mod furnace with the ECM blower. I just installed a couple of them and really like them.A rebadge York, right? I'm really happy with my York. It's an 80%, not the modulating since it's just back-up heat for the heat pump but it does have the ECM motor (sorry I had the acronym wrong :o ). Very nice to leave the fan on continuously to even out room temps and improved air filtration. You don't even hear it running.

[beenthere]

I assume the modulated Rheem is similar in design to the Lennox G71P where the gas output and fan rise in increments of 1% from 40-100%. .

Ouch.

Can't believe you just compared a Lennox mod to the Rheem mod.
No, it doesn't operate the same way.

[shoretrade]

A rebadge York, right? I'm really happy with my York. It's an 80%, not the modulating since it's just back-up heat for the heat pump but it does have the ECM motor (sorry I had the acronym wrong :o ). Very nice to leave the fan on continuously to even out room temps and improved air filtration. You don't even hear it running.



That is correct, I totally agree on the ECM blower point.

[lobo11]

The contractor said it was a true variable speed motor, I specifically asked as my Dad has a unit he bought they called a variable speed motor, but it has like 3 speeds.

[lobo11]

So, due to some unforseen economic issues I held off on the furnace replacement for a few months. The contractor I had decided to go with and have put in the Nordyne 95% 2-stage variable, added another line of furnaces made by Goodman/Amana. I had them give me a quote for their 95% 2-stage variable on that unit because of the better warranty up front and a new kicker. The contractor is offering it as a lifetime parts and labor unit, they call it their Lifetime series, as long as you the purchaser owns the home, otherwise it is transferable as 10 & 10. Basically they are banking on the data that most folks stay in their homes less than 10 years. Their "Lifetime Series" was significantly more than the Nordyne I was going to have put in, so I passed but told them if they offered any deals due to the economic slow down, call me. They called and basically are offering their Lifetime Series, made by Goodman for about $xxx more than the Nordyne I was initially going with. Obviously I am loving the Lifetime warranty and I am really thinking aobut doing this. Any good/bad things to say about the 95% 2-stage variable speed Goodman. Thanks in advance.

[badtlc]

So, due to some unforseen economic issues I held off on the furnace replacement for a few months. The contractor I had decided to go with and have put in the Nordyne 95% 2-stage variable, added another line of furnaces made by Goodman/Amana. I had them give me a quote for their 95% 2-stage variable on that unit because of the better warranty up front and a new kicker. The contractor is offering it as a lifetime parts and labor unit, they call it their Lifetime series, as long as you the purchaser owns the home, otherwise it is transferable as 10 & 10. Basically they are banking on the data that most folks stay in their homes less than 10 years. Their "Lifetime Series" was significantly more than the Nordyne I was going to have put in, so I passed but told them if they offered any deals due to the economic slow down, call me. They called and basically are offering their Lifetime Series, made by Goodman for about $xxx more than the Nordyne I was initially going with. Obviously I am loving the Lifetime warranty and I am really thinking aobut doing this. Any good/bad things to say about the 95% 2-stage variable speed Goodman. Thanks in advance.

The lifetime includes labor? The lifetime warranty on heat exchanger and compressors is normal. 10 year parts warranties are also normal. I haven't seen a Goodman or Amana warranty including labor.

I have also never heard of a "lifetime series."

Goodman makes good stuff. It will be highly efficient and reliable. It just might not be as fancy or as quiet as some other offerings.

[lobo11]

The Lifetime Labor is through the Contractor itself, which takes over after the Goodman 10/10. It is a very large contractor in the area, been around for more than 30 years so I am not too concerned about them going out of business or anything. Regardless the first 10 & 10 is the manufacturers. I had a quote for the same Amana with 10 & 10, and they wanted $xxxx more than what this place wants to put the Goodman in for. In addition it was my prefered contractor to begin with. Include the really nice deal, and it just seems really fortunate I held off for that couple of months. Their warranty post manufacturer basically states that if at any time they cannot get the proper replacement parts from the manufacturer to repair the unit, you get a new furnace of at least equal specs. free. I talked to one of their installers and he said it is just a gamble they are taking after years of business, showing that a majority of their clients are not in the same house for more than the 10 year manufacturers warranty. With the volume they do I bet they do not take much of a hit on this in the future either.

[tinknockertom]

Whose lifetime? Yours or the owner of the business who is offering this warranty. Your pretty safe with a manufactures warranty anything else is iffy at best

[mrlighturfire]

Whose lifetime? Yours or the owner of the business who is offering this warranty. Your pretty safe with a manufactures warranty anything else is iffy at best

My thoughts exactly. I would be concerned about the lifetime labor warranty:eek: I myself have not heard of any contractors in my area offering that. How would they make any money in the future if somethin should go wrong after manufacture warranty is up? I would need to have the contractor explain the labor warranty in further details. As for lifetime series never heard that one either and I am a Goodman dealer myself and I have not had any customer complaining about the any furnaces I have installed being a Goodman. Of course I am also a Day & Night dealer also as for as quiet the Day & Night are pretty quiet in my opinion. It is all about the install and contractor and not about equipment.

[tinner73]

use the search button at the top of the page to see what people think of Gooman.











i'm not a fan.;)

[HVAC9900]

One thing I always look at is the blower wheel size,and rpms.
They sometimes install a small wheel and run it at about 20,000 rpms to save a few cents-but it is noisier.

See if they list the noise level rating at high fan speed(like for AC).Its been a while since I looked at residential literature,so mayeb that's included now.

[tedkidd]

In my opinion I would go with the Ruud modulating furnace, Why? because it is a true modulating furnace. The gas valve is not a simple two stage gas valve it actually modulates by a signal from a matched thermostat. The output of the furnace exactly meets the heat loss of the structure and the outlet temperature remains constant by adjusting the VS fan to match the btuh value. It ranges between 40 and 100% output. Direct spark, Diagnostics that on a seven segment LED (actual number) and dignostic history.If the Mod thermostat is not used, you can still connect a 2 stage stat and get 3 or 4 stages of heat in a "quazi-modulation" mode. For the same money as the other 2 stage variable speed furnaces. It is also set up for 2 stage cooling applications as well, just my two cents. :D

If the stat does what he says you are crazy not to get it.

Remember, $1000 incremental cost that reduces your energy bill $10 per month is 12% after tax rate of return. I bet that thermostat doesn't cost $1000 - and I'll bet it saves more than $10 per month.

It's all about control. When it comes to energy savings (and comfort) it's all about control.

[mrlighturfire]

The Lifetime Labor is through the Contractor itself, which takes over after the Goodman 10/10.


Okay I think I know what he means by lifetime labor. If you are a good care extended warranty contractor through Goodman you have a choice on warranty care package. You still pay for it no matter what. I carry the good care myself. You have a choice from 5 years or even up to 99 years. It is just a part and labor plan. I offer it but customers usually do not jump on it. Like I said it does cost you something he is not giving to you for free. This is the only thing I can think of what he is talking about. Lifetime series maybe something he came up with. Good luck.

[Toolboy]

My ten plus years as a Tech. leads me to agree with Mr. Bill. I have had enough problems with coleman that I do not care for them. I have been a Carrier and Lennox dealer for most of my career, but have serviced all brands. I am convinced that Carrier makes the best there is Bar None!
The best install is your best bargain, and a "Two Stage" anything is not a true variable as we would think of it, it only has two variables.
Happy Shopping.

[JonDeere]

Ill do a lifetime labor, but you have to sign a service contract that is going to cost you five big ones a year.

Go with Carrier or another one of their brands like bryant or comfortmaker

[lobo11]

Not sure how he is applying the Lifetime, probably like mrlightyourfire is saying. This company is pretty large and basically sells two furnaces they call "their" line, which are just these--their basic line are rebadged Nordyne units, the literature is Nordyne Literature with their furnace line name (say X Company Aire) in place of the Nordyne Name. It is the same way with the "Lifetime Series" a rebadged Goodman with Goodman literature and owners manual, etc. and a "Lifetime Series" badge placed where you normally see the Goodman logo. They also sell Lennox products as well, but under the Lennox name. Like I said I think they are normally ctching you up front with the large price difference between the 95% variable Nordyne and the 95% variable Goodman. The "Lifetime Series"--(Goodman) was originally quoted at a cost almost 30% above the similar Nordyne unit, now they have dropped it to almost the same price, and when I add the cost to extend the Nordyne unit to 10/10 it is almost a complete wash. I talked to one of the installers and he said he prefers the Goodman over the Nordyne now do to some recent changes in the Nordyne 95% design. He said he used to even prefer the Nordyne over the 95% Lennox they also offered, until these changes were made. He said the most recent design was receiving more call backs than the older one, I cannot remember exactly what the main problem was. He prefaced it with, you didn't hear this from me, as it is obvious he doesn't want it to get back to the management.