FX-40 or NAE

[Roktgr]

Hello all,

First off I am enjoying this forum as I am a fresh engineer with little controls experience working in a Hospital Facility. This seems to be like a great place to research systems and learn more about controls.


My questions is in regards to the JCI FX-40 or the NAE controller. From what I have gathered on in searching past discussions the FX-40 is the way to go.

See threads
http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=151728&highlight=FX40
and
http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=124435&highlight=FX40


Is this still the case?


Little background on our facility:
It's probably smaller then most and we run 4 buildings on our system and ~18 Air Handler Units. Currently we are using the Metasys interface, with a NCM and N2.


We recently learned that our area engineers are trying to push everyone to upgrade their systems to the JCI NAE and set a area wide JCI service contract for said NAE.


Problem is we did have JCI as a service contractor three years ago and did not like the service we got and payed to get out of the contract. Our servicing is now supplied by a local HVAC contractor.


Upgrading to the NAE would mean our servicing contractor would be JCI which we just got of. Our local contractor suggested installing a FX-40, that way we could keep them on our contract as we do like the service they have given us.


In discussion with our area engineers they are touting the NAE over the FX-40, one of the main selling points is the internet access, but we do not want to be locked into services with JCI.

Any other pros/cons to FX-40 or NAE that are not listed above? Thanks

[freddy-b]

Hello all,

First off I am enjoying this forum as I am a fresh engineer with little controls experience working in a Hospital Facility. This seems to be like a great place to research systems and learn more about controls.


My questions is in regards to the JCI FX-40 or the NAE controller. From what I have gathered on in searching past discussions the FX-40 is the way to go.

See threads
http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=151728&highlight=FX40
and
http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=124435&highlight=FX40


Is this still the case?


Little background on our facility:
It's probably smaller then most and we run 4 buildings on our system and ~18 Air Handler Units. Currently we are using the Metasys interface, with a NCM and N2.


We recently learned that our area engineers are trying to push everyone to upgrade their systems to the JCI NAE and set a area wide JCI service contract for said NAE.


Problem is we did have JCI as a service contractor three years ago and did not like the service we got and payed to get out of the contract. Our servicing is now supplied by a local HVAC contractor.


Upgrading to the NAE would mean our servicing contractor would be JCI which we just got of. Our local contractor suggested installing a FX-40, that way we could keep them on our contract as we do like the service they have given us.


In discussion with our area engineers they are touting the NAE over the FX-40, one of the main selling points is the internet access, but we do not want to be locked into services with JCI.

Any other pros/cons to FX-40 or NAE that are not listed above? Thanks

Fx-40's with all of their short comings were still monumentally superior to NAE's. Now that FX-60's are available...It is truly a no brainer decision.

NAE's have ZERO advantage... and its not even close.

[berg2666]

Well then NAE loses here the fx40 does internet. But hey it is still sold by jci so which ever route you do my stock still goes up.

[Roktgr]

so the FX-60 is the equivalent or superior to NAE? I will have to ask our contractor about it then. They offered us a trial run on the FX-40 for six months and if we don't like it they will take it out, if we do it will cost us just under 3K. Thanks.

[freddy-b]

so the FX-60 is the equivalent or superior to NAE? I will have to ask our contractor about it then. They offered us a trial run on the FX-40 for six months and if we don't like it they will take it out, if we do it will cost us just under 3K. Thanks.

There is no equivalent to it, it kicks its a$$ in every way.

[freddy-b]

Well then NAE loses here the fx40 does internet. But hey it is still sold by jci so which ever route you do my stock still goes up.

Good for you Rainman.

[berg2666]

There is no equivalent to it, it kicks its a$$ in every way.



And from what I have read so far Freddy-B seems to be good with them, so good supoort is available.

[GONFISHN]

Well then NAE loses here the fx40 does internet. But hey it is still sold by jci so which ever route you do my stock still goes up.

So the NAE doesn't do internet??? Thats news to me:confused:


And to the original poster. If your local HVAC guy is knowledgeable with the FX product I would definitely go that route.

[berg2666]

So the NAE doesn't do internet??? Thats news to me:confused:


And to the original poster. If your local HVAC guy is knowledgeable with the FX product I would definitely go that route.

[/QUOTE]In discussion with our area engineers they are touting the NAE over the FX-40, one of the main selling points is the internet access, but we do not want to be locked into services with JCI. [/QUOTE]



The NAE does do internet but the OP stated that the NAE does internet and it seemed to be his only reason for using the NAE.

[beentheredonethat]

The OP made the deciding statement for my vote. If my company had canceled a contract because of ill fealings I wouldn't be considering a major purchase from that company. I wouldn't be going down that road again. Just be sure you have support lined up with your ABCS for service support down the road. Also there are many that can help you with the FX/AX but not very many with the NAE. Good Luck,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rrh

[gbfromsd]

why cant your local contractor support an NAE? If he can support an FX, he should be able to figure out an NAE too hmMM?

[freddy-b]

why cant your local contractor support an NAE? If he can support an FX, he should be able to figure out an NAE too hmMM?

Nice!

[ddcfreek]

Simply put, go with FX and be free to decide whoever you want service from. And have flexability for future expansions to be able to go with any type of controls that fit.

As far as cost (which shouldn't be posted here), the fx60 costs less than the 40 and has more capacity. I believe it costs less than the NAE too.

[freddy-b]

Simply put, go with FX and be free to decide whoever you want service from. And have flexability for future expansions to be able to go with any type of controls that fit.

As far as cost (which shouldn't be posted here), the fx60 costs less than the 40 and has more capacity. I believe it costs less than the NAE too.

My personal favorite is getting 95% finished with some logic with the barbaric tool set, and having it go white screen on ya..... never ever to return in tact.

[ddcfreek]

My personal favorite is getting 95% finished with some logic with the barbaric tool set, and having it go white screen on ya..... never ever to return in tact.

Been there, unfortunately...:eek:

[exwtk]

Why would you want to upgrade in the first place ???
Sounds like a very basic setup... 4 buildings, 18 air handlers.

I am not familiar with the FX product line, so I am not sure what they have to offer, but by "upgrading" to a NAE, you gain absolutely nothing.If
If you just want to upgrade because of the internet access. Then I would recommend different avenues such as PCAnywhere, GoToMyPC ... just to name a few

The NCM is a workhorse and it will serve your facility just fine for years to come!!

[NINAX]

My questions is in regards to the JCI FX-40 or the NAE controller. From what I have gathered on in searching past discussions the FX-40 is the way to go.

Is this still the case?

Yes. In a nutshell, NAEs suck and FXs sing.


We recently learned that our area engineers are trying to push everyone to upgrade their systems to the JCI NAE and set a area wide JCI service contract for said NAE.
Did he mention what kind of 'perks' they offered with the deal?


Problem is we did have JCI as a service contractor three years ago and did not like the service we got and payed to get out of the contract.
Really? I guess jci still doesn't get it. Big surprise.


Upgrading to the NAE would mean our servicing contractor would be JCI which we just got of.
That's the second best reason NOT to go with NAEs.


Our local contractor suggested installing a FX-40, that way we could keep them on our contract as we do like the service they have given us.
They're close. No on the Fx40, go with the FX60.

[NINAX]

Well then NAE loses here the fx40 does internet. But hey it is still sold by jci so which ever route you do my stock still goes up.

Good for you and IndyBlue.
Spoken like a true jci guy that gets the big picture. And they wonder why they have problems.

[NINAX]

Simply put, go with FX and be free to decide whoever you want service from. And have flexability for future expansions to be able to go with any type of controls that fit.
Right on. There's the second best reason for using a FX.


As far as cost the fx60 costs less than the 40 and has more capacity. I believe it costs less than the NAE too.
It would depend on the NAE they would put in, they might even match pricing. But in any size/package, they still aren't in the same class as a FX.

[NINAX]

Why would you want to upgrade in the first place ???
Sounds like a very basic setup... 4 buildings, 18 air handlers.
Are you serious, or just towing the jci line because you might lose one?


I am not familiar with the FX product line, so I am not sure what they have to offer, but by "upgrading" to a NAE, you gain absolutely nothing.
I agree, it would actually be a functional downgrade with a nae.
But, with the nae, jci and berg benefit by all of the additional 'locked-in' service calls which will drive the stock price up.



If you just want to upgrade because of the internet access. Then I would recommend different avenues such as PCAnywhere, GoToMyPC ... just to name a few
Do you really consider that the same? I don't whatsoever. Not even close.
So he should carry around his CD and load it on every machine around so he can have access? That will be real handy.
Do they have those products for Smartphones too?


The NCM is a workhorse and it will serve your facility just fine for years to come!!
How many techs are left at jci that can work with them?
What about material availability and sky-rocketing costs?

[beer30]

Every shop in town has an ex JCI guy that will be able to service the PMI.

I have 100% customer approval rating when tearing an NAE off the wall and replacing it with an FX-40.

[Vortech]

Fx-40's with all of their short comings were still monumentally superior to NAE's. Now that FX-60's are available...It is truly a no brainer decision.

NAE's have ZERO advantage... and its not even close.

I have to dissagree- use what ever contractor you feel the most comfortable with, the NAE will do the job fine and so will the FX-40/60- If you go with the
NAE, JCI/ABCS or another controls contractor can service you (except for software upgrades) if you go with the Tridium you kind of get stuck with a smaller controls contractor that may or may not be there to provide service for you in 5,10 or 15 years....

to give you my perspective, I am ex-JCI now working for a hospital, we have seimans and a honeywell/tridium system - I can not get service on the tridium system to save my life, so I am tasked with having to learn the the tridium based FX line or replace it- this should not be to hard for me with my controls back ground - but not everyone has that abillity

-V-

[freddy-b]

I have to dissagree- use what ever contractor you feel the most comfortable with, the NAE will do the job fine and so will the FX-40/60- If you go with the
NAE, JCI/ABCS or another controls contractor can service you (except for software upgrades) if you go with the Tridium you kind of get stuck with a smaller controls contractor that may or may not be there to provide service for you in 5,10 or 15 years....

to give you my perspective, I am ex-JCI now working for a hospital, we have seimans and a honeywell/tridium system - I can not get service on the tridium system to save my life, so I am tasked with having to learn the the tridium based FX line or replace it- this should not be to hard for me with my controls back ground - but not everyone has that abillity

-V-

I suggest you learn it, and work with it for a few months...then you will see how stupid you are making yourself look right now.

[Roktgr]

why cant your local contractor support an NAE? If he can support an FX, he should be able to figure out an NAE too hmMM?

I guess I don't know as I'm not familiar with the language each uses. As an engineer I would think you would be able to figure it out but it could be a point of diminishing returns, ie time spend figuring it out not worth the cost.

As I understand it JCI offers training for NAE but doesn't sound like they allow anyone to attend.

[Vortech]

I suggest you learn it, and work with it for a few months...then you will see how stupid you are making yourself look right now.

Just exactly was the last time you worked on an NAE (as in what release)
FYI, most customers dont see any of the stuff we work with or the problelms we as tech's fix for them, this pertians to how the end product will work not how hard or easy it is to setup.

as for your quoted comment: I would expect better from a Controls Committee member, maybe you should be the Tridium Controls Committee

[Vortech]

I guess I don't know as I'm not familiar with the language each uses. As an engineer I would think you would be able to figure it out but it could be a point of diminishing returns, ie time spend figuring it out not worth the cost.

As I understand it JCI offers training for NAE but doesn't sound like they allow anyone to attend.


What you need to understand is there are alot of controls contractors on here, We non-jci contractors can not buy NAE's or ADS's

-V-

[davem]

What you need to understand is there are alot of controls contractors on here, We non-jci contractors can not buy NAE's or ADS's

-V-

...then again, there are us non-jci contractors that CAN buy NAE's or ADS's, and know in full detail every bit of difference between an NAE and any of the Tridium-manufactured boxes (with any manufacturer's label on it). To stick with a Johnson-labeled product, the FX-60 will not disappoint...

[OutOfControlMan]

I can and have installed both NAE's and FX's. I found the NAE far easier to setup, diagnose, and maintain. I have customers very satisfied with the ease of use and the ability to do custom programming with it.

The FX line can do alot. There are a bunch of drivers available if integration is important to you. Custom programming can be difficult if you are unfamiliar with it. Sure the FX can probably do more looking at the HOLE picture. This might be important to you if you have multiple systems.

The NAE can and will do everything you need it to do as well as the FX will. I think you will find it as I did the learning curve for the FX is far greater then the NAE. You as an end user will find it easier to navigate, program, and add on to the NAE versus the FX

If your contractor cant figure out how to service the NAE having skills with the FX40 I would be looking for a new contractor. Dont let his sales pitch over the NAE sell you on it only because he cant sell the NAE.

Now without any further ado, your response NINAX or FreddyB

[ddcfreek]

to give you my perspective, I am ex-JCI now working for a hospital, we have seimans and a honeywell/tridium system - I can not get service on the tridium system to save my life, so I am tasked with having to learn the the tridium based FX line or replace it- this should not be to hard for me with my controls back ground - but not everyone has that abillity

You mean to say that of all the manufacturer's out there using tridium that you can't find a single contractor that will service tridium? I find that hard to believe.

[digo]

You mean to say that of all the manufacturer's out there using tridium that you can't find a single contractor that will service tridium? I find that hard to believe.

I agree. That's like saying you can't find an IT guy to look at your Windows 2003 Server. Not that Tridium is like Microsoft, but when one isn't willing to pay for talent, then one ends up taking his PC to geeksquad, and he gets what he pays for.
Unless JCI puts additional restrictions on the licensing, like maybe only allowing JCI branded workbench connections in.

[Roktgr]

If your contractor cant figure out how to service the NAE having skills with the FX40 I would be looking for a new contractor. Dont let his sales pitch over the NAE sell you on it only because he cant sell the NAE.


I'm not sure I'd agree with this. How is a contractor supposed to service and guaranty proper function of a device they have never been able to use much less sell.

And if they cannot sell it how are they supposed to be able to service it? JCI sells the controller then you have to have it serviced by them, not much choice or am I missing something.

[ddcfreek]

I can and have installed both NAE's and FX's. I found the NAE far easier to setup, diagnose, and maintain. I have customers very satisfied with the ease of use and the ability to do custom programming with it.

The FX line can do alot. There are a bunch of drivers available if integration is important to you. Custom programming can be difficult if you are unfamiliar with it. Sure the FX can probably do more looking at the HOLE picture. This might be important to you if you have multiple systems.

The NAE can and will do everything you need it to do as well as the FX will. I think you will find it as I did the learning curve for the FX is far greater then the NAE. You as an end user will find it easier to navigate, program, and add on to the NAE versus the FX

I definately disagree. In thier core, the main difference in the FX versus NAE is its modular design. This makes the FX harder to learn if you don't understand that principal but once you do it is easier to setup. That difference also makes the FX far superior to the NAE in every way. I tought myself NAE's and FX's and found the FX actually easier to learn. Also, I have seen too many problems in NAE's (at least up to rev2.2) to be able to say that they are at all comparable.

[Roktgr]

Does anyone have a few screenshots of the the FX-40 interface (Workbench?) that I could share with our area engineers?

Also for internet access you need a VPN for the NAE setup, is that so with the FX-40 as well?

[NINAX]

I can and have installed both NAE's and FX's. I found the NAE far easier to setup, diagnose, and maintain. I have customers very satisfied with the ease of use and the ability to do custom programming with it.
That can only lead someone to question your skills.

The FX line can do alot. There are a bunch of drivers available if integration is important to you.
Yes. Main case in point is N2 integration.

Custom programming can be difficult if you are unfamiliar with it.
Wow. Really? If you're not familiar with it, it may be unfamiliar. Now there's a deep Maobama thought.

Sure the FX can probably do more looking at the HOLE picture. This might be important to you if you have multiple systems.
No. It can just do more. Period. And everything better.

The NAE can and will do everything you need it to do as well as the FX will.
Just plain wrong.

I think you will find it as I did the learning curve for the FX is far greater then the NAE.
Too funny, and wrong.

You as an end user will find it easier to navigate, program, and add on to the NAE versus the FX.
Even funnier, and more wrong.

If your contractor cant figure out how to service the NAE having skills with the FX40 I would be looking for a new contractor. Dont let his sales pitch over the NAE sell you on it only because he cant sell the NAE.
It's called options. With the NAE, he'll have very little, because jci WANTS it and MAKES it that way. It helps berg's stock prices that way.

Now without any further ado, your response NINAX or FreddyB
This has to be a joke response, because I find it hard to believe that ANYONE that's used both would ever comment as you did. I suppose you're just trying to stir the pot.

[NINAX]

Does anyone have a few screenshots of the the FX-40 interface (Workbench?) that I could share with our area engineers?
Have you poked around on the jci website yet?


Also for internet access you need a VPN for the NAE setup, is that so with the FX-40 as well?
I would say that the VPN is for your network security, so it would be the same for both.
And you don't want a FX40, you'll want a FX60. I'd even go with the extended memory too.

[Roktgr]

for the time being I don't have a choice on the FX-60. Initially it was between the FX-40 or the NAE and the choice was made for the FX-40 and it's already been ordered. I don't know why or how that was decided on, I'll have to ask the contractor sales person about that.

I have been looking on Johnson site for screenshots but must not be looking in the right place.

[NINAX]

for the time being I don't have a choice on the FX-60. Initially it was between the FX-40 or the NAE and the choice was made for the FX-40 and it's already been ordered. I don't know why or how that was decided on, I'll have to ask the contractor sales person about that.

I have been looking on Johnson site for screenshots but must not be looking in the right place.

JCI Product Lit (http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.com/default.aspx?main.aspx&2)

Facility Explorer for FX
Revised Documents for NAEs (It's easier to find it here)

[OutOfControlMan]

Look the point to my post was the the NAE will be able to do everything needed for your standard system without overkill that the FX gives you. To me I find most end-users only use a small fraction of any control system anyway. Why would you need to learn to fly a space shuttle to work when you can drive a car.

As far as my last comment I wasnt stirring the pot I just knew you or FrddyB couldnt resist taking up fo the FX line.

[NINAX]

Look the point to my post was the the NAE will be able to do everything needed for your standard system without overkill that the FX gives you. To me I find most end-users only use a small fraction of any control system anyway. Why would you need to learn to fly a space shuttle to work when you can drive a car.
I disagree, completely.
NAEs are notorious for not functioning even in the simplest applications.
The FX will be much easier to use and modify.
It also sets them up for future, non-jci, expansion.
Plus the added bonus of opening the service options to many more contractors. Yes berg, that's not going to be good for your stock value.

As far as my last comment I wasnt stirring the pot I just knew you or FrddyB couldnt resist taking up fo the FX line.
First, my comment was referring to your entire post.
Secondly, I don't need prompted to combat a poster's 'mis-information', to put it nicely.

[freddy-b]

Look the point to my post was the the NAE will be able to do everything needed for your standard system without overkill that the FX gives you. To me I find most end-users only use a small fraction of any control system anyway. Why would you need to learn to fly a space shuttle to work when you can drive a car.

As far as my last comment I wasnt stirring the pot I just knew you or FrddyB couldnt resist taking up fo the FX line.

A car that cost more and only runs on fuel ....only sold at one place.

With AX, You can do just about anything, 1000 different ways to make the interface they want. Easy to Space Shuttle..their choice.

[freddy-b]

JCI sells the controller then you have to have it serviced by them, not much choice or am I missing something.

Not a thing!
Knowledge is Power , when dealing with the proprietary clowns.
Also,
Once you get FX's , you are not locked into the installer, you dont like the service.... move on and Find another. Thats just a option you dont have with the JCI Branch boys.

[RC20]

What bothers me about this conversation is that not once do I see anyone actually saying WHAT the technical differences are between the NAE and the FX line feature by feature, functions etc that make it better.

Some mudslinging and slurs yes, but how about a technical breakdown.

Isn’t this supposed to be a technical discussion and not a mudslinging between people who do not seem to care for each other. Sort of like tuning into an episode of the Bickersons. I really do not care what their personal problem are, I want solid details that I can make decisions on.

[NINAX]

What bothers me about this conversation is that not once do I see anyone actually saying WHAT the technical differences are between the NAE and the FX line feature by feature, functions etc that make it better.

Some mudslinging and slurs yes, but how about a technical breakdown.

Isn’t this supposed to be a technical discussion and not a mudslinging between people who do not seem to care for each other. Sort of like tuning into an episode of the Bickersons. I really do not care what their personal problem are, I want solid details that I can make decisions on.

Very nice question presentation.

[freddy-b]

With this attitude you deserve whatever screwjob you get.

[ddcfreek]

What bothers me about this conversation is that not once do I see anyone actually saying WHAT the technical differences are between the NAE and the FX line feature by feature, functions etc that make it better.

Some mudslinging and slurs yes, but how about a technical breakdown.

Isn’t this supposed to be a technical discussion and not a mudslinging between people who do not seem to care for each other. Sort of like tuning into an episode of the Bickersons. I really do not care what their personal problem are, I want solid details that I can make decisions on.

The problem I think you are seeing is that some people don't care about the details. Their opinion is that what they work on is the best and everything else sucks. Unfortunately, you see that those who do know the differences don't want to waste thier time trying to have a meaningful debate when the other people already made up thier minds.

I am sure I'm not the only one here that would agree with you on this, but this is what you get with an open forum.

[b25crew]

With this attitude you deserve whatever screwjob you get.

Wow - Freddy please don't hold back - no wait what am I saying
its never happened (holding back that is).

[paulir]

I have to dissagree- use what ever contractor you feel the most comfortable with, the NAE will do the job fine and so will the FX-40/60- If you go with the
NAE, JCI/ABCS or another controls contractor can service you (except for software upgrades) if you go with the Tridium you kind of get stuck with a smaller controls contractor that may or may not be there to provide service for you in 5,10 or 15 years....

to give you my perspective, I am ex-JCI now working for a hospital, we have seimans and a honeywell/tridium system - I can not get service on the tridium system to save my life, so I am tasked with having to learn the the tridium based FX line or replace it- this should not be to hard for me with my controls back ground - but not everyone has that abillity

-V-

Give me your login's, heck I will support you, what part of the world do you work where you cannot find a single company to do Tridium? I find this very difficult to believe!

[Cagey57]

... saying WHAT the technical differences are between the NAE and the FX line feature by feature, functions etc that make it better....

A point by point/ function by function comparison would be Extreamly long and, in some respects futile, arduious to complie. It is almost like comparing 2 different sports sedans, they are both cars but the details are where it gets confusing.

I can only speak from my experience so here goes.

In general an NAE/Software is "Officially" only available via the JCI distribution chain (Branch offices). The native "Tool Set" is static, no one but JCI has or will add to that tool set. It is heavily propritary JCI, duh they designed it ! In several respects buy the simple fact that JCI restricts it availability it implies a single source for both Parts and service (please note I said Implies). The NAE is a fixed frame device meaning that what you see is what you get.

In General an FX-20/60 (the 40's are essentially discontinued) are available "Officially" only via "Authorized Distributers" (ABCS dealers) as either ABCS installed/Serviced systems or through other independany controls companies/contractors. The primary advantage of the FX-20/60 is that it is only partially proprietary (the N2 bus and the Johnson specific "Workbench" added functions). It is field expandable with I/O modules, up to 4 additional "Ports" and multiple Communication drivers. The FX is a Niagara-AX based platform and due to that basis, any competent AX programmer/integrator/developer can setup/customize/service/support the FX. There are over 40 industry "AX-Partners" and individuals are adding to and sharing (for free) functions to the "Tool Set" all the time. Not to mention the fact that the FX Self Generates on board graphics. No additional software required.

I cannot give an un-biased opinion, I have been working with the NAE since about 2004 and the FX since late 2005. I have to say the the FX-Platform is more user friendly less costly and can be supported by a wider base of service contractors than the NAE ...but....that has to be qualified by what part of the country you are in.

I don't know if this is any help at all....but I tried !

[RC20]

I am starting at the end, so yours is the last one read, will go back and read the others.

Thank you, its an excellent description/breakdown from my standpoint. It gives me a clear idea of the differentiation between the two.

My suspicion is that corporate wise they have decided to go with JCI, and will choose to support the existing NCM with PMI setup. For future, move to the NAE of FX for the one facility that has no monitoring (and no need for control as its crude and works best that way) and possibly the one facility into compatibility of some sort that has a Barber Coleman Network 8000 (all the critical functions are old fashioned mechanical stats and such, mostly monitoring and alarms and the one auto fuel system we run in manual anyway which is another trail of tear type story).

Again, thank you. That gets cut and pasted into the appropriate reference file.

[steves4]

I am starting at the end, so yours is the last one read, will go back and read the others.

Thank you, its an excellent description/breakdown from my standpoint. It gives me a clear idea of the differentiation between the two.

My suspicion is that corporate wise they have decided to go with JCI, and will choose to support the existing NCM with PMI setup. For future, move to the NAE of FX for the one facility that has no monitoring (and no need for control as its crude and works best that way) and possibly the one facility into compatibility of some sort that has a Barber Coleman Network 8000 (all the critical functions are old fashioned mechanical stats and such, mostly monitoring and alarms and the one auto fuel system we run in manual anyway which is another trail of tear type story).

Again, thank you. That gets cut and pasted into the appropriate reference file.

If you want even more flexibility take a look at our S4 Open appliances, The OPC-N2 Router or the BACnet-N2 Router. Either one will integrate into your Metasys N2 bus and allow you to choose the head end system that best meets your needs. My contact information is in my profile if you would like additional information.,

[justjohnson]

If you go the FX route than you can integrate the NW8000 stuff into a TAC ENC with the ASD driver (which is TAC branded jace, FX is JCI branded Jace) and have all your systems integrated under a single front end with the capability to put whatever "open" system you want in for the future and still have it under one front end. Not many companies offer you the ability to support so many legacy protocols.

[ControlTrends]

We found some pretty good videos on Youtube that walk you through how to set up the FX controller and even shows how to set up Lon and BacNet points. These videos are well done and have been very useful. They are at www.controltrends.com under the Stromquist TV tab in the technical how tos section