$250,000 Small Business

[chas]

I would like to discuss this somewhere above the ARP level I hope it doesn't go there ............This $250,000 Small business Obama plan seems like it will effect most in our trade, that own their business. A person for the campaign was on this morning a claimed that 250k is gross receipts not net . I would say that figure will hit many in the construction trades. Why do they laugh and say a plumber can't do that . I think 6-8%net profit is an industry average,if you can hit that. I know I'm not a harvard kind of guy But I know my Books.

I got more to say b ut lets see how many Joe the HVAC guys this might effect.

[BamaCool]

What business you're in or if you're just an employee, his idiotic tax plan will cost everybody! Think about this....If your overhead suddenly costs more, who do you pass that cost on to?:mad:

[Richard Kletty]

What business you're in or if you're just an employee, his idiotic tax plan will cost everybody! Think about this....If your overhead suddenly costs more, who do you pass that cost on to?:mad:

Bingo! Correct on all points.

[jmac00]

Obama is not only NOT good for the country, he is NOT GOOD for business.


It sounds like Obama is going to penalized us for growing and hiring. If he is going to increase taxes on anyone making over $250K, why bother?

I have to tell you, if your in the northeast, The first quarter of next year looks extremely bad and you should be very concerned. This year the first quarter sucked and the economy wasn't nearly as bad as it is right now.

To be honest, I'm am saving every single penny I can because NO ONE is going to be spending any money after January 1st.

I'm going to change the name of my company to AIG, maybe the government will bail me out:mad::mad::mad:

[ga-hvac-tech]

Look in the 'Joe the Plumber' thread, there is a good discussion of this $250K gross sales thingy there.

There is a solution though: Form a corporation (or a sub s corp). Then the gross sales are at the business level, and your income is salaried...

But back on the topic; lets not forget that with inflation comes tax bracket creep... guess who gets it in the 'end' when bracket creep happens... everyone!

At the other thread, I asked the question: Do we still think BHO is the savior, and John McCain is the bad guy?

[tostaos]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Lets look at post #44 in the thread 'Joe the Plumber', posted at 4:19 PM today by K_Fridge:

Ok...truth comes out. Just heard an Obama staffer on Fox news....the news babe nailed her down on the tax threshold. It's $250'000 gross, so yes it will nail all you sole proprieterships out there.
(end of post)

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=2018736&posted=1#post2018736

Looks like voting for a handout at someone else's expense is more important than knowing the facts.

I wonder what these wonderful liberals will think when they realize it is THEIR tax $$$ being taken and given away???

[jmac00]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

I'd rather be a Bankrupt Free Republican, than a slave to a master Democratic Government. Go worship at the alter of Karl Marx:mad:

[tostaos]

Yeah right, it's so funny that the republican administration has to socialize the banking system. They were not capable to watch out at the Wall Street Casino. I have no problem with this rich guys gambling, so long nobody else gets hurt.

[tostaos]

Did you guys ever realized that all this plans from presidential politicians are just ideas? Presidents don't make laws, it's the congress. lol

[jmac00]

Did you guys ever realized that all this plans from presidential politicians are just ideas? Presidents don't make laws, it's the congress. lol


your Messiah has "plans" no body ever said anything about laws.:confused:

[Richard Kletty]

Did you guys ever realized that all this plans from presidential politicians are just ideas? Presidents don't make laws, it's the congress. lol
Really? No crap? Hhhhhmmm yeah. So blame Republicans in the ARP and then come in here and blame the Democrats?

Hmmmm yeah have we not had a Democrat run Congress the last few years?

Thanks for reaffirming what we already knew.

[Freezeking2000]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

If you honestly believe it will only be the top 5%...............you do not know government. It starts that way then it is 200K, then 150.......you know how it goes.

[ga-hvac-tech]

If you honestly believe it will only be the top 5%...............you do not know government. It starts that way then it is 200K, then 150.......you know how it goes.

I agree, sometimes this is true...

But many times it goes like this: it is set at 250... then this little annoying thingy called inflation (inflation is caused by deficit government spending) results in higher prices and higher wages... then guess what... sooner or later we are all making 250... and cannot buy any more than we do today (because prices are higher also)... BUT we are paying more taxes...

It is called 'bracket creep'.

The real solution is LESS taxes, not shifting the tax load to someone other than me...

[chas]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No that post doesn't belong in this conversation .

I didn't post This to here Dem or Repub talking points. I wanted to know how these policies might effect us and our business . I currently have health insurance (I pay For) with my wifes employer group, but that might change if I have to have more deductions in my business .I might be able to take advantage of O's $3,000 deduction or Mac's $5,000 deal I don't know, either way, it looks like things are going to effect small business's differently in a few years. I'll Probably have to look into a S corp or LLC ( in my wifes name) .Might be cheep money to borrow if the head of the company is female.........Just words , thoughts , conversation...........

[Richard Kletty]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

I like the veiled "republicans are stupid" bit you have in there.

FWIW, I have an above average IQ thank you very much.

Im gonna agree with you on one thing though. This thread might not be best here.

[Richard Kletty]

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No that post doesn't belong in this conversation .

I didn't post This to here Dem or Repub talking points. I wanted to know how these policies might effect us and our business . I currently have health insurance (I pay For) with my wifes employer group, but that might change if I have to have more deductions in my business .I might be able to take advantage of O's $3,000 deduction or Mac's $5,000 deal I don't know, either way, it looks like things are going to effect small business's differently in a few years. I'll Probably have to look into a S corp or LLC ( in my wifes name) .Might be cheep money to borrow if the head of the company is female.........Just words , thoughts , conversation...........

Personally, I dont think you're gonna have to worry much about health care. I think thats one of the issues both are talking about but wont do a thing about it.

I get my insurance through my wife's employer as well so Im pretty set there right now. You can do an LLC or Corp pretty cheap and that should help out. You should be doing that anyway for other reasons.

Thanks for bringing it back on topic too:)

[dec]

Hmmmmm...... I just want to know how long tostaos has been a contractor. Looks like not long enough to WISE UP.


Then again look at DICE. The sewer gas fumes he has inhaled all these years have killed the half of his brain that tries to comprehend politics. :D :D :D

Maybe Tostaos does plumbing too :p

[chas]

Rich

I didn't Know a topic like this was in the ARP section .I didn't go and look. I have seen it now and for that same reason is why I posted in the Pro's section .To try to keep it that way. I try to stay away from the foolishness in the ARP section.......I've tried it out there not exactly where I want my claim to fame.........

[Richard Kletty]

Rich

I didn't Know a topic like this was in the ARP section .I didn't go and look. I have seen it now and for that same reason is why I posted in the Pro's section .To try to keep it that way. I try to stay away from the foolishness in the ARP section.......I've tried it out there not exactly where I want my claim to fame.........

As you can see, I dont hang there either. Im fine with the topic here. I only mentioned it maybe not being here because folks will get off topic.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Rich

I didn't Know a topic like this was in the ARP section .I didn't go and look. I have seen it now and for that same reason is why I posted in the Pro's section .To try to keep it that way. I try to stay away from the foolishness in the ARP section.......I've tried it out there not exactly where I want my claim to fame.........

AAAAWW now... ARP is not a bad place...

One only needs thick skin and to know of what they debate... and be able to admit when they are either wrong or out/line... Not easy on one's pride... but IMO a sign of maturity.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Time to call it a night... :)

[RoBoTeq]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.
Why would the discussion of how a new tax structure will affect business's not belong in the Business and Marketing forum?

You are the only one injecting insults and attempting to make this business discussion a political one. No one discussing this is nuts and no one discussing this has a low IQ for discussing it.

Please stick to the thread subject.

[RoBoTeq]

Lets look at post #44 in the thread 'Joe the Plumber', posted at 4:19 PM today by K_Fridge:

Ok...truth comes out. Just heard an Obama staffer on Fox news....the news babe nailed her down on the tax threshold. It's $250'000 gross, so yes it will nail all you sole proprieterships out there.
(end of post)

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=2018736&posted=1#post2018736

Looks like voting for a handout at someone else's expense is more important than knowing the facts.

I wonder what these wonderful liberals will think when they realize it is THEIR tax $$$ being taken and given away???
Would this thread not be more worthwhile if the political commentaries were eliminated and only the business aspects of what tax structures were discussed? I'm just saying:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Did you guys ever realized that all this plans from presidential politicians are just ideas? Presidents don't make laws, it's the congress. lol
This is very true. However, the types of alleged plans that presidential candidates come up with do give us an insight of how they think politically. There is no doubt that "share the wealth" Obama is Socialistic thinking and that McCain is a moderate who at least is willing to make decisions that are not based on being popular with his own party.

Now, can we get off of the politics and back on track with how any different proposed plans will affect small business?

[RoBoTeq]

your Messiah has "plans" no body ever said anything about laws.:confused:
Business and Marketing is not about political choices. Wouldn't we be more productive with this very relevant subject by sticking to the proposed plan affects on business?

[coolerfixer]

I would like to discuss this somewhere above the ARP level I hope it doesn't go there ............This $250,000 Small business Obama plan seems like it will effect most in our trade, that own their business. A person for the campaign was on this morning a claimed that 250k is gross receipts not net . I would say that figure will hit many in the construction trades. Why do they laugh and say a plumber can't do that . I think 6-8%net profit is an industry average,if you can hit that. I know I'm not a harvard kind of guy But I know my Books.

I got more to say b ut lets see how many Joe the HVAC guys this might effect.

Whoever said that is wrong, plain and simple.

This is cut and paste from the Obama website.

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.

If you really belive that they would tax you on your gross sales, you are deluded. C'mon, let's be honest here. There is no way that would ever pass muster in in either the house or senate, Democratic party controlled or not. So the reality is, he's saying if you are netting $250 K, that's what the tax increase will be on. I will gladly pay the increase if my business grew that much.

[Dowadudda]

Strictly from a business frame of mind, raising taxes on anyone or any business has a negative impact. It's been studied to death. The results have always pointed to negative effects.

Now. Why do the candidates want to raise taxes? Because they don't want to reduce their spending. Neither candidate is talking in terms I care to hear. I want to hear things about how lower taxes, and you do that by ridding the system of spending.

Pre 1930's, our government was much much smaller in scale and depth. It was because of the 1930's that our government grew and taxes became increasingly invasive to our lives. I have read much about this, and I can and will find the info if someone asks me, but. Not saying exactly but. Prior to 1935 or so, our government was only comprized of about 9 or 10 different departments. Department of Agriculture and things like that. Now there is over 100 or more. We have departments like Department of Transportation, that is overseen by 2 other departments, that itself is overseen by another department.

Take the IRS for example. Just to execute the laws, oversee and function the system, we pay a couple billion. So we pay that, just to pay taxes. I would love to see a flat TAX. Or even getting rid opf income tax al together and impose a consumption tax on everything. Can you imagine. Easy to administer.

Our Government is much like the Auto Industry. There is too much capacity. It should shrink. Our spending is out of control. It's incredible. And no one talks about it as a business, from a business frame of mind.

[RoBoTeq]

Whoever said that is wrong, plain and simple.

This is cut and paste from the Obama website.

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.

If you really belive that they would tax you on your gross sales, you are deluded. C'mon, let's be honest here. There is no way that would ever pass muster in in either the house or senate, Democratic party controlled or not. So the reality is, he's saying if you are netting $250 K, that's what the tax increase will be on. I will gladly pay the increase if my business grew that much.
If you really believe anything politcians tell you is really going to happen, you are deluded. Let's face it, neither one can do much in tax reduction unless they either over tax some to give to others, ie; Socialism, or greatly reduce current government overspending, which is doubtfully going to be able to happen even over four years time.

[RoBoTeq]

Strictly from a business frame of mind, raising taxes on anyone or any business has a negative impact. It's been studied to death. The results have always pointed to negative effects.

Now. Why do the candidates want to raise taxes? Because they don't want to reduce their spending. Neither candidate is talking in terms I care to hear. I want to hear things about how lower taxes, and you do that by ridding the system of spending.

Pre 1930's, our government was much much smaller in scale and depth. It was because of the 1930's that our government grew and taxes became increasingly invasive to our lives. I have read much about this, and I can and will find the info if someone asks me, but. Not saying exactly but. Prior to 1935 or so, our government was only comprized of about 9 or 10 different departments. Department of Agriculture and things like that. Now there is over 100 or more. We have departments like Department of Transportation, that is overseen by 2 other departments, that itself is overseen by another department.

Take the IRS for example. Just to execute the laws, oversee and function the system, we pay a couple billion. So we pay that, just to pay taxes. I would love to see a flat TAX. Or even getting rid opf income tax al together and impose a consumption tax on everything. Can you imagine. Easy to administer.

Our Government is much like the Auto Industry. There is too much capacity. It should shrink. Our spending is out of control. It's incredible. And no one talks about it as a business, from a business frame of mind.
I completely agree. If is going to take someone a lot stronger then McCain to implement flat tax rate though.

[jmac00]

uuuum, it seems that small business has some pretty good tax breaks RIGHT NOW: Hey, Joe-the-plumber, PAY ATTENTION

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122418638192241823.html

[ga-hvac-tech]

Would this thread not be more worthwhile if the political commentaries were eliminated and only the business aspects of what tax structures were discussed? I'm just saying:rolleyes:

OK Robin,

I will retract the lat two sentences of my post... citing K_Fridge's post...

The post will then cite the fact that Obama's staff person admitted to $250K being 'gross', not net.

However, I will insert that this is typical politics of BOTH parties; IMO one should not trust anything that any politician says until it is researched and documented.

Would that be acceptable... :)

[dash]

All of our suppliers and manufacturers will be paying higher taxes,even if it's net.

So our costs will increase when we can least afford it.

[lolson]

I don't see any tax breaks coming from either candidate.
If Businesses taxes increases so does the cost of services. If personal taxes increase we still will be paying for it.

[jmac00]

All of our suppliers and manufacturers will be paying higher taxes,even if it's net.

So our costs will increase when we can least afford it.

not necessarily, corporations can get (more like demand) special tax breaks.

for Example, NYS has something called "Empire Work zones" which gives employers ( any and all ) special tax breaks and reductions on utilities to help promote business. However this kind of thing is severely offset by higher workmans comp and insurance fees through out the state.

We have a new Birillo <sp> pasta plant in the town of Avon, NY. The reason they moved here is because of tax exemption for the next 20 years :rolleyes: but those exemption are supposedly off set by more income tax, sales tax and property tax on new employees moving to the area

[ChristopherNJ]

Let me just say this, its too bad there is not a consertive running for president during this economic mess.

I fail to see how driving the country deeper into debt, borrowing more from China and printing money out of free air will keep all of our buisness healthy.

Ive always found that construction has faired better under a democrat.

Taxes dont matter to me so much when I see my customer base loosing their jobs. WHen they get laid off, so do I.

RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT since that wont happen I support Obama:-(

[oceana/c]

This thread does not belong into Business & Marketing.
You are all completely nuts. $250 K income is taxed and most of you don't have that much left at the end of the year. Small business will be not much affected. Your IQ must be very low to not realize that republican politics is very very bad except if you belong to the top 5% who own 95%. I love big government and taxes democratic style, it's a lot cheaper than going into the hole with republican politics, like failed economic policies, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

Thank you tostaos

[Dowadudda]

Joe The Plumber.

I wonder what normal down to earth people think of when they see the media really whiop this thing out of thin air and then each candidate spins it.

I think both campaigns are spinning this so completely out of context.

The guy asked, "hey, if I were to buy this plumbing business I work for now, and my income is 250, would you tax me" That is really all the guy asked.

I read in the paper, that, he's doesn't have a license. Well, you can work as a plumber in OHIO working for someone who does. The paper here, who is for Baraq Obama, even listed the fact he was not a part of a union. Okay folks. Now we got a democrat paper moaning cause this dude does not have a license or is in the union. A democrat paper is looking down on that.

Wow.

The both of these idiots will not do one thing for you or me, whether your the furthest left or right on any issue. Neither one of these idiots is qualified to be president of the United States in my opinion.

And I just wonder how many people are sensible and are real in this campaign year. You got Obama and McCain promising the world in their own ways, and they have people believing them hook line and sinker. As if they could wave their hand it magically have their plans implemented. Not gonna happen on either side.

I remember this from Bush Sr. He said. "no new taxes" And guess what, we got taxed living $hit out of ourselves. Clinton gave our country away. Sold us down the river. So

Do you really think your candidate, the one you support, do you really believe their bull$hit.

It's all boloney.

[BamaCool]

I love big government

What???? You are truly one of a kind. Before I get in trouble.....That's all I have to say about that.:mad:

[flange]

The economic mess we are in has been seen coming from a mile away by insiders. They did not want to scare the american people and global economy by admitting to it. Who in their right mind did not see it coming? When everyone and their mother is standing in line for a sub-prime mortgage, its too late to stop the train from crossing the tracks. That being written, the recession has been coming for a while now, and the insiders have been trying to stop it using the Keynesianism approach. It basically says go into short term debt by throwing money at the economy to go into debt, in an effort to stimulate both growth and consumer confidence. This is what spurred the tax rebate checks some of you received. This is what is driving the bailout plan. It has been proven around the globe to work many times over, but many people are too stubborn to look at or understand the philosophy. If you noticed, the global economy is suffering, and the larger players are all trying to do the same thing by infusing cash into the local economies of their country. The reality is that they need to make people comfortable in spending again in order to spur growth. Many here have already seen the slow down, and others are looking at it coming soon. So, just how do you get your locals to spend money again? While they are scared they wont. We need the consumer to think it is okay to spend monet on repairs, new systems cars etc to get moving again. If this thing gets too deep it will hurt everyone. The biggest problem I see is the news everyday making people think the sky is falling. It is not. But if everyone closes their wallets at the same time, it just might. The reality is that right now, we need people to open up and spend. The top percentage od earners would never notice a slightly higher tax rate, but the bottom dwellers certainly would notice it and clamp down more.

[ga-hvac-tech]

The problem is too much government, spending too much $$$.

There are lots of short term solutions that create more problems down the read.

The only real solution is less government and less taxes.

Now tell me which candidate supports that... (hint: none of them).

[Dowadudda]

Back when John Manyard Keynes was brainstorming the great depression, he never would have assumed the interwoven world economy as it stands today.

I figure he was sort of a guy who felt it might be able to be contained if say the US was in bad shape, the US could buy it's way out of it with more government spending, to kickstart the economy from it's almost still pace. Now a days, it aint so. We as a people of America, our financial systems, and credit deals and yada yada yada is all interwoven into every national economy across the globe. No time in History has it been this way.

I think Keynes was a good dude. But. I would have liked to call him up in todays world and would he share the same veiw points he had.

I will add something to bolster my doubts of the true Keynes mantra. Buffet says shut down, we need a good kick in the a$$ to get out of debt and start fresh. Bailout is not the correction the market needs. As a matter of fact, it will prolong the worst and the worst will be much worse than it could have been.

Hang on boys.

[ChristopherNJ]

Why arent some of you guys getting behind RON PAUL???


Look at his website, read his views and tell me why this guy isnt president!

[timebuilder]

The tipping point came when it was more important for Dodd and Frank and friends to buy the votes of their intended constituent block by mandating that a) loans be made to those who could not normally be qualified for them, and b) that these quasi-government entities (headed up for a time by one Franklin Raines) should buy up the questionable loans made to these poor-credit borrowers. Now, we are all paying the price of the availability of a purchaser for loans that no one else in their right mind would purchase.

You are right, in that this so called bailout only has served to slow a descent to the inevitable correction, and it will most likely make it last longer than it would have lasted otherwise.

On the bright side: the next time some pandering politician suggests that everyone should be able to own a home, he will be laughed out of town.

This will be a real tune-up for the credit markets, and force many of us to start living within our means.

[timebuilder]

Why arent some of you guys getting behind RON PAUL???


Look at his website, read his views and tell me why this guy isnt president!

Well, for one reason, most folks are appalled at the idea that we should allow all drugs to be legalized. No need to go into the other reasons, like electability.

[Dowadudda]

actually, this bail out will be mismanaged and money set into motion in the wrong parts of the economy to make it truly effective, and that is why the goverment intervention into the matter will make the descent that much more painfull. This is my opinion.

Supply is driven by demand. Demand comes from people with purchasing power. Purchasing power comes from employed people who have discretionary cash.

If that trillion went right into forcing the banks to "mark to market" the current foreclosures on their books and also refinance everyone at their original rates, rather than the LIBOR adjusted rate, this problem would vanish instantly. The biggest thing here is "mark to market". It's absolutely insane the government is allowing this. You know why. Cause no one knows what it really is.

So here. Can anyone define what "mark to market" For those who don;t know. You will be shocked to learn why the banks are not being forced to "mark to market" and rather you pick up the tab.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Why arent some of you guys getting behind RON PAUL???


Look at his website, read his views and tell me why this guy isnt president!

Dr Ron Paul, IMO, has the right ideas... but he is non-electable due to media bias.

I personally think he does not have enough charisma to handle the office, but that is only my opinion.

[ChristopherNJ]

Dr Ron Paul, IMO, has the right ideas... but he is non-electable due to media bias.

I personally think he does not have enough charisma to handle the office, but that is only my opinion.

But heres a guy talking about smaller govenment, closing borders, lower taxes, making this country much more business friendly ect.

And yet we compalin about this situation when we are not voting the way we should be. Seems we are all to blame if things dont change.

[BamaCool]

Why arent some of you guys getting behind RON PAUL???


Look at his website, read his views and tell me why this guy isnt president!
But at this point, we only have a choice between 1.2 people.
1 McCain
0.2 Nobama

[ga-hvac-tech]

But heres a guy talking about smaller govenment, closing borders, lower taxes, making this country much more business friendly ect.

And yet we compalin about this situation when we are not voting the way we should be. Seems we are all to blame if things dont change.

OK, I will play along:

Tell me a time in the history of this country that anyone other than a candidate of the two large parties has been elected to president of the USA...

And then tell me if it has happened since the TV media has been involved in elections...

After the answers to the questions above, we can discuss why a vote for a third party candidate is a wasted vote.

[Richard Kletty]

You know what kills me about the whole election this time around? The fact that Obama has set out to do one thing and he has succeeded. He only talks economy and it has become the focus of the entire thing. This is where McCain screwed up in the debates.

Now every time we talk Obama its about economy and money. He is a smart man and certainly wows the people with his smooth speach. Not me....

I wanted McCain to nail him on the second ammendment. Make him look into the camera on the debate and promise the people that you dont want to disarm us. Sure we know politicians lie to the folks but its a hard start!

All were talking is economy which certainly favors Obama even though the financial problem isnt McCains fault.

I strongly urge everyone to read Obamas books. Dont buy em but get em at the library. Very very scarry. BTW, Obamas deal is 250k for a couple and 200k for an individual. See how it already has gotten lower?

You telling me no one on this board makes 200k a year for themselves? I find that hard to believe. Ooops there I go talking about the economy again LOL

[mikelcs]

, going to war for no reason and pissing off the rest of the world, that costs trillion of $.

this is typical of today's American thinking, or lack there of! I know exactly why we are at war. I have not forgotton. And I'll be damned if we should just forget all about it and try not to offend the rest of the world!

[bluetooth751]

Why arent some of you guys getting behind RON PAUL???


Look at his website, read his views and tell me why this guy isnt president!

I would have to agree, but Washington insiders will not let Ron Paul in. The people maybe.

Our Government is much like the Auto Industry. There is too much capacity. It should shrink. Our spending is out of control. It's incredible. And no one talks about it as a business, from a business frame of mind.
Goverment is way to big and has been out of our control for too long. Our tax system is a compilation of a 100 year old oak that digs deeper everyday and grows every election.

Obama-is a great speaker and has some good ideas. Taking my gun away not good. Allowing abortions and he is for this not good. By the way the 200,000.00 tax is actually 182,000.00.

Mccain- poor speaker, constricted too much by his campaigne which may very well cost him this election. Lower corporate tax to 25&#37; great. This would or should lower the cost of many goods and services. Corporations do not pay corporate tax consumers do.

One of our best workers comes from a broken home terrible parents who abused him. I stop and think that thank the lord his parents had him and did not abort him. He is nothing like his parents!!!

The small burden on our economy is the sub-prime crisis. This is only affecting some areas not all.

The real crisis to our economy is the over 2,000,000. illegal immigrants that most don't pay taxes (the ones that do very little)Burden our health care, social security system, jails, homeland security, cause the lowering of wages, and much much more. BUT THIS IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

By the way I am for the fair tax proposed by Huck, but with states following it as well. Give me my money and let me decide what to do with it.

[tostaos]

[color="Red"]Goverment is way to big and has been out of our control for too long.
Yes, the military is too big for too long

[color="Red"]
Obama-is a great speaker and has some good ideas. Taking my gun away not good. Allowing abortions and he is for this not good.
Who talks about taking away the gun of all the red necks? Gun control is not taking away the guns, it's registering the gun owner.
You want control over your gun, but don't want the women have control over their body?

[color="Red"]
The small burden on our economy is the sub-prime crisis. This is only affecting some areas not all.
LoL, is it first affecting all areas when we are in a depression? Is a major recession not enough for you?

[color="Red"]
The real crisis to our economy is the over 2,000,000. illegal immigrants that most don't pay taxes (the ones that do very little)Burden our health care, social security system, jails, homeland security, cause the lowering of wages, and much much more. BUT THIS IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!.What are you smoking? All the money that is paid in by illegal immigrants could pay for the whole Iraq war. They can not draw SS, they just pay in. The United States profits from all the immigrants, legal or illegal.

[BamaCool]

Who talks about taking away the gun of all the red necks? Gun control is not taking away the guns, it's registering the gun owner.


Coming straight from a Redneck........It's none of the governments business what guns I have or how many. Registering guns is the first step of taking them away. They know exactly where to go get them then. :mad:
What was the subject of this thread?:D

[Frostie]

OK, I will play along:

Tell me a time in the history of this country that anyone other than a candidate of the two large parties has been elected to president of the USA...

And then tell me if it has happened since the TV media has been involved in elections...

After the answers to the questions above, we can discuss why a vote for a third party candidate is a wasted vote.

You are right, it is the media who elects the president. Hopefully the tides are turning and with more people able to get their information from media sources outside the mainstream more people like Dr. Ron Paul can be heard and make a difference. Reagan was elected running on more or less the same principles that Dr. Paul supports, its just that he **** the bed when he actually took office and budgets soared.

Believing that a vote for a third party is a wasted vote is just another reason the system is a failure.

Ron Paul 2008!

PS as for legalizing drugs, who but me should have authority over what I do in my spare time?

[bluetooth751]

Yes, the military is too big for too long

Who talks about taking away the gun of all the red necks? Gun control is not taking away the guns, it's registering the gun owner.

All rednecks don't have guns, but I am glad you had to classify someone. More is proposed than just registration read between the lines.

You want control over your gun, but don't want the women have control over their body? Yes, I agree women should have control over there bodies the first step is not accepting a mans well you know. Instances of rape are a different story, but a life is a life and many people would love to adopt.

LoL, is it first affecting all areas when we are in a depression? Is a major recession not enough for you? Funny our area is rockin and rollin.
What are you smoking?

All the money that is paid in by illegal immigrants could pay for the whole Iraq war. They can not draw SS, they just pay in. The United States profits from all the immigrants, legal or illegal.

Ya, just the other day I met 10 illegals that didn't get paid cash and they spoke english as well. We also didn't have special programs for them in our schools. No Immigrant left behind. It is sad that many make the few that due it right look bad!

Sorry, I must have hurt your Obama. Both candidates are going to probably have to raise taxes. If you think the military is too small don't complain when a scud goes off in your lap.

[bluetooth751]

Did you guys ever realized that all this plans from presidential politicians are just ideas? Presidents don't make laws, it's the congress. lol

Yeah right, it's so funny that the republican administration has to socialize the banking system. They were not capable to watch out at the Wall Street Casino. I have no problem with this rich guys gambling, so long nobody else gets hurt.
Don't you contradict yourself above. Last I checked Congress was majority democratic, so wouldn't they be responsible for socializing the banks.



Anyway, In answer to the original post who the hell knows how the taxes will affect us. The tax plans are only proposals, so congress does not have to buy them. Email your local congress people and have a voice.
Remember that with 20,000 pages of tax code your accountant can surely find someway to save you a few pennies, but hell what cpa knows that hole book.

I will say this there is one thing good about Obama being elected... maybe just maybe he can help us get over this race thing.

[Richard Kletty]

Yeah right, it's so funny that the republican administration has to socialize the banking system. They were not capable to watch out at the Wall Street Casino. I have no problem with this rich guys gambling, so long nobody else gets hurt.
Don't you contradict yourself above. Last I checked Congress was majority democratic, so wouldn't they be responsible for socializing the banks.

That was my point in a post above. Yep Democrats running Congress the last few. What else did we expect?




Anyway, In answer to the original post who the hell knows how the taxes will affect us. The tax plans are only proposals, so congress does not have to buy them. Email your local congress people and have a voice.
Remember that with 20,000 pages of tax code your accountant can surely find someway to save you a few pennies, but hell what cpa knows that hole book.

I will say this there is one thing good about Obama being elected... maybe just maybe he can help us get over this race thing.

I think white folks are over it. In the last few weeks Ive spoken to several white folks who were either voting for Obama or said they would vote for a black President. Every person of color said they were voting for Obama.

As to the guns and abortion thing, I am pro choice and anti abortion. I dont want the government telling me what to do with regards to guns either.

As for the topic, raising taxes right now would be a bad thing.

[classical]

Yes, the military is too big for too long

Who talks about taking away the gun of all the red necks? Gun control is not taking away the guns, it's registering the gun owner.
You want control over your gun, but don't want the women have control over their body?

LoL, is it first affecting all areas when we are in a depression? Is a major recession not enough for you?
What are you smoking? All the money that is paid in by illegal immigrants could pay for the whole Iraq war. They can not draw SS, they just pay in. The United States profits from all the immigrants, legal or illegal.

This from a person that admits he is not an American, does not like America and does not wish to be one. If you don't like our country leave!

As to illegal’s putting in more than they take out get real, they send billions a year south and they cost us untold billions in unpaid healthcare and more billions in law enforcement and penal cost.

[tostaos]

This from a person that admits he is not an American, does not like America and does not wish to be one. If you don't like our country leave. :D:D:D Why would I want the same passport as you?

[classical]

:D:D:D Why would I want the same passport as you?

Why would I want you to have one?

[Richard Kletty]

:D:D:D Why would I want the same passport as you?

And that folks is what turns folks off to foreigners in their country.

"Ill come and take advantage of your countrys greatness, its opportunity, but I dont want to be a part of it"

All take and no give. We get it.

Yeah Im for a fair tax too. Flat rate it. Consumption or use tax if you will.

[ga-hvac-tech]

"Ill come and take advantage of your countrys greatness, its opportunity, but I dont want to be a part of it"

All take and no give. We get it.



I wonder what would happen to me if I went to his country and talked openly and loudly like that... :eek:

[RoBoTeq]

OK Robin,

I will retract the lat two sentences of my post... citing K_Fridge's post...

The post will then cite the fact that Obama's staff person admitted to $250K being 'gross', not net.

However, I will insert that this is typical politics of BOTH parties; IMO one should not trust anything that any politician says until it is researched and documented.

Would that be acceptable... :)
Absolutely acceptable. You know me; always wanting to take the high road in diplomacy:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Dr Ron Paul, IMO, has the right ideas... but he is non-electable due to media bias.

I personally think he does not have enough charisma to handle the office, but that is only my opinion.
I would like to add that Ron Paul also simply would have no control over most of the things he is promoting even if he were president. It's like me saying that if a contractor buys from me I will push for every contractor to have a fully stocked fleet of service vans. It's a nice idea but something I just would not be able to accomplish.

[RoBoTeq]

Well, for one reason, most folks are appalled at the idea that we should allow all drugs to be legalized. No need to go into the other reasons, like electability.
I'm ok with that part. I resent most things that are illegal. Every law takes away a right of American citizens and creates more criminals.

[chas]

Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) What are they covering up ?
You know how many 700 Billion is ? $700,000,000,000.00

This is what these geniuses in congress have decided to call this .
They have this great idea how to hold everybody responsible .In 5 years a review of this bailout will take place and the president elect will be responsible for fixing it . Sounds like the congressional retirement plan ..You got five years to find a new job an not be held accountable......

Based on the U.S. Census Bureau's estimate of the current population of about 305 million people, each person would have to pay $2,300 to fund the $700,000,000,000. If each American (including children) paid a dollar a day, it would take more than six years to pay the money in full. The national debt is well over $9 trillion (which means you already owe $31,642 each).

What a mess ....................

[ga-hvac-tech]

Absolutely acceptable. You know me; always wanting to take the high road in diplomacy:rolleyes:

You are a born salesperson Robin... :p

But if you choose to enter politics; whatever level I would trust you is gone... :D

[ga-hvac-tech]

Here is an article from the Washington Post that came across my Email box; concerning tax levels in different income groups, under each candidate's tax plans:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html

Worth the time to read and think about...

Remember: Price and wage inflation could well bump one into a higher bracket. And all the economic indicators I see say that we will have a hefty and robust round of inflation in the next few years... So if it were me; I would look at a bracket or two higher than today's income... because THAT is where I will be in a few years.

[flange]

I am curious as to the thoughs of others when it comes to the Employee Free choice act and OSHA? The reality is that tax change wont have as big of an effect on us as these other two items in my opinion. Do Osha regs mean anything to you all? I like the thought of having a watchdog, no matter how lame they may be perceived to be. Without them our industry would be a giant mess. How many of you out there drive your own vehicle and are "independant contractors"? If you are, do you understand what it really means to you? If not do some homework before voting this year.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I am curious as to the thoughs of others when it comes to the Employee Free choice act and OSHA? The reality is that tax change wont have as big of an effect on us as these other two items in my opinion. Do Osha regs mean anything to you all? I like the thought of having a watchdog, no matter how lame they may be perceived to be. Without them our industry would be a giant mess. How many of you out there drive your own vehicle and are "independant contractors"? If you are, do you understand what it really means to you? If not do some homework before voting this year.

I am always ready to do some googling... can you explain a little more what you are talking about? THX!

[flange]

1) one of the candidates wants to cut back on funding and power of the Osha folks. They are already understaffed, and if cut further this could severely impact our collective safety on the jobsite. Currently there is a fear of heavy fines being levied if an unsafe act occurs and puts someone in "immediate threat to loss of life". A weak(er) osha would allow gc's to push harder and possibly cause more jobsite injuries to occur.
2) one of the candidates is against the Employee Free Choice Act. Which has its own set of problems, some good and some bad. The reality is that it allows contractors to classify workers as "independant contractors", without their knowledge. This essentially puts that worker in a position whereby he is in business as a subcontractor. While this might seem to be good, the reality is that there are certain tax issues related to that. For example, lets say you are driving your own van and tools to jobsites. you get classified as a independant contractor and don't know it. You get paid say the IRS rate for mileage and a little something for your trouble. You think you are in Shaefffer city. The reality is that you now have NO workers' comp, unless you go get it yourself, no liability polic y, unless you get it yourself, etc. You must do your own payroll taxes, fica, soc, etc. Are you any better than if you were an employee? Maybe or not. Is the company any better? YES, they got rid of excess costs without telling you. This can only happen year one, but if you are not prpared you get hurt. I know all owner out there are as honest as me, but sometimes they conveniently "forget" to tell you things. Sorry when I went in business it was MY choice, and I knew costs.

[timebuilder]

I'm ok with that part. I resent most things that are illegal. Every law takes away a right of American citizens and creates more criminals.

I know too many people whose lives were ruined by drugs. Not because they were illegal, or too expensive, mind you, but simply because they generally make you a non-productive, unemployed, sickly drug user instead of a get up early, hard working, diligent person with dreams that go beyond the next high.

There are plenty of things that are illegal that should be so, and drugs are a prime example of that.

[timebuilder]

I am curious as to the thoughs of others when it comes to the Employee Free choice act and OSHA? The reality is that tax change wont have as big of an effect on us as these other two items in my opinion. Do Osha regs mean anything to you all? I like the thought of having a watchdog, no matter how lame they may be perceived to be. Without them our industry would be a giant mess. How many of you out there drive your own vehicle and are "independant contractors"? If you are, do you understand what it really means to you? If not do some homework before voting this year.

I worked before OSHA. I guess that makes me old.

There is virtually no difference that I can perceive now that we have OSHA. Most of the time, it is words on a paper signed by some legislators and bureaucrats. That's what they do. They do not add substance, but they are great at convincing people that they have done something for the "little guy."

Ask a flight instructor about being an independent contractor. I've done it. If you want to build time and experience in an airplane, it is the only available path. There are no flight schools that I found where you are paid an hourly wage and can get unemployment benefits. The key to being successful is to be the guy with the flight school, just like the idea in contracting is to be the GC, and not the laborer.

[ga-hvac-tech]

1) one of the candidates wants to cut back on funding and power of the Osha folks. They are already understaffed, and if cut further this could severely impact our collective safety on the jobsite. Currently there is a fear of heavy fines being levied if an unsafe act occurs and puts someone in "immediate threat to loss of life". A weak(er) osha would allow gc's to push harder and possibly cause more jobsite injuries to occur.
2) one of the candidates is against the Employee Free Choice Act. Which has its own set of problems, some good and some bad. The reality is that it allows contractors to classify workers as "independant contractors", without their knowledge. This essentially puts that worker in a position whereby he is in business as a subcontractor. While this might seem to be good, the reality is that there are certain tax issues related to that. For example, lets say you are driving your own van and tools to jobsites. you get classified as a independant contractor and don't know it. You get paid say the IRS rate for mileage and a little something for your trouble. You think you are in Shaefffer city. The reality is that you now have NO workers' comp, unless you go get it yourself, no liability polic y, unless you get it yourself, etc. You must do your own payroll taxes, fica, soc, etc. Are you any better than if you were an employee? Maybe or not. Is the company any better? YES, they got rid of excess costs without telling you. This can only happen year one, but if you are not prpared you get hurt. I know all owner out there are as honest as me, but sometimes they conveniently "forget" to tell you things. Sorry when I went in business it was MY choice, and I knew costs.

THX for the reply. I was not aware of either of the issues... however they do not affect a 'one man/one van' company... So I probably do not need to worry about it.

The part about 'independent contractor' is not such a bad thing, if you know about it. If one sets up a sub S corporation, one will come out better as an independent than an employee... it just takes a bit more (ongoing) paperwork...

The 'gutting of OSHA is a new one on me, I will have to google that one.

[RoBoTeq]

I know too many people whose lives were ruined by drugs. Not because they were illegal, or too expensive, mind you, but simply because they generally make you a non-productive, unemployed, sickly drug user instead of a get up early, hard working, diligent person with dreams that go beyond the next high.

There are plenty of things that are illegal that should be so, and drugs are a prime example of that.
Do you really think that by drugs being illegal that less people prone to abusing drugs have done so? I don't. If anything, by making drugs a taboo, it has added to the lure of them. Also, how many persons arrested for drug abuse may have been curious experimentors or casual users who, by being arrested and treated like criminals, were further exposed to the very types of people we would rather keep otherwise good citizens from being exposed to?

No, I can not accept that most laws are not just designed to make more citizens a criminal commodity for a very lucrative "justice" system.

[bluetooth751]

Do you really think that by drugs being illegal that less people prone to abusing drugs have done so? I don't. If anything, by making drugs a taboo, it has added to the lure of them. Also, how many persons arrested for drug abuse may have been curious experimentors or casual users who, by being arrested and treated like criminals, were further exposed to the very types of people we would rather keep otherwise good citizens from being exposed to?

No, I can not accept that most laws are not just designed to make more citizens a criminal commodity for a very lucrative "justice" system.

The nail just got the shat beat out of it. Drug users are treated as criminals in our justice system which is wrong. People that use drugs need reform they should not be sent to jail. I speak from a personal experience of a family member.

[bluetooth751]

Going back to taxes and the bailout. I think we are all a little responsible for the week dollar and our current economics. We have been living over our means for years. We all new it was coming.

Our dollar is week and we spend vast amounts of money on national security to the point we are going to have to file bankruptcy as a nation.


What I don't like about Obama's tax plan (even though my family would see a little more money in tax relief) is that he is taxing the piss out of people that are living the american dream. Why would anyone under Obama's plan want to make 2.8 million per year and have to pay 3/4 of a million in taxes.

[tostaos]

Why would anyone under Obama's plan want to make 2.8 million per year and have to pay 3/4 of a million in taxes.Quite simple: They still would make 100x more than the poor. I would love to pay that much taxes.

[RoBoTeq]

Quite simple: They still would make 100x more than the poor. I would love to pay that much taxes.
So you say now. Let's face it folks; Obama's alleged plan is just designed to dupe the masses.

Who do you think is putting the most support into Obama? It is the very elite wealthy that Obama is claiming he is going to make take up the slack so that the "poor, common folk" can have more. Bullcrap! This ain't going to happen. It is the lure of every Socialist and it has never worked out well.

Fortunately the U.S. has enough checks and balances to keep this type of Socialism from doing deabilitating damage. And if it does come to a point where our government completely turns on the people and our leaders take too much advantage of their new American comrades, there is always revolt. That's why we need to keep our guns.

[jpb2]

So you say now. Let's face it folks; Obama's alleged plan is just designed to dupe the masses.

Who do you think is putting the most support into Obama? It is the very elite wealthy that Obama is claiming he is going to make take up the slack so that the "poor, common folk" can have more. Bullcrap! This ain't going to happen. It is the lure of every Socialist and it has never worked out well.

Fortunately the U.S. has enough checks and balances to keep this type of Socialism from doing deabilitating damage. And if it does come to a point where our government completely turns on the people and our leaders take too much advantage of their new American comrades, there is always revolt. That's why we need to keep our guns.



What happened to the kinder gentler roboteq ?

[RoBoTeq]

What happened to the kinder gentler roboteq ?
I'll be sure to kill the Commie ba$tard$ quickly so they don't suffer;)

[jpb2]

I'll be sure to kill the Commie ba$tard$ quickly so they don't suffer;)


Allrighty then. Have a happy day :D

[The Penguin]

no matter what happens we ( as in all of us middle/working class people inc small biz owners) are going to take it up the arse which ever gummit runs the show

[BamaCool]

And if it does come to a point where our government completely turns on the people and our leaders take too much advantage of their new American comrades, there is always revolt. That's why we need to keep our guns.
That's exactly right Robo ! That's why these Socialist idealogy people(if you can call them that), include in their agenda to take our guns! The whole idea from the beginning was for the people of this country to have guns, not only for defense of this country, as well as self defense, but for staying on a level playing field with the gov't. to keep them in check. The gov't is in the major leagues, the people can't even put together a minor league without being burned out, arrested or killed, because why? They owned more guns than the gov't thought they should! People are worried about this country getting weak and being taken over by a gov't that doesn't allow freedom. Stop worrying people, it's been that way for years!:mad:

[EarthLoop]

Does anybody know what time the baseball game starts on Thrusday night???

Thanks in advance :)

[natej]

I work hard...................................for my family and our future

I do not work hard.........................for lazy, irresponsible system abusers

I do not feel sorry for individuals who feel they are not afforded the same oppurtunities as others. You make your own luck, I don't care what your situation is. Get off your $%# and take care of YOUR family.

The game is at 8pm ET...........:D

[jpb2]

Glad the game's on at 8:00. I want every politician to look at the federalist papers and at mear least reflect. The answer lies in people not Government. Always has. Less govt= Less waste and corruption.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Less govt= Less waste and corruption.

If only we could get the public to understand this... :cool:

[Dowadudda]

perfect example of NOBAMAS redistribution of wealth idea is the welfare state in Detroit. Half a million people, with their hand out, doing drugs, comitting crimes, non productive trash.

[RoBoTeq]

perfect example of NOBAMAS redistribution of wealth idea is the welfare state in Detroit. Half a million people, with their hand out, doing drugs, comitting crimes, non productive trash.
Exactly the way Communist regimes like citizens to be.

[tostaos]

Exactly the way Communist regimes like citizens to be. I think you have a problem to back that up. The welfare system problems Dowadudda is talking about is an American phenomenon and you can not tell me that this country is run by the communists. Socialists, Communists and Liberals are not to blame for entitlement problems of our society, there were just not enough of them in the last 50 years in this country to have this kind of influence.

[behappy]

Who do you think is putting the most support into Obama? It is the very elite wealthy that Obama is claiming he is going to make take up the slack.

I will take that bet! (if there is one). I TRULY believe his support is coming from OVERSEAS! MillionS of dollars at $200.00 a pop! No one will have the GONADS to check into his finances fully.... sadly. :mad:

[Richard Kletty]

I think you have a problem to back that up. The welfare system problems Dowadudda is talking about is an American phenomenon and you can not tell me that this country is run by the communists. Socialists, Communists and Liberals are not to blame for entitlement problems of our society, there were just not enough of them in the last 50 years in this country to have this kind of influence.

American phenomenom? May I ask where exactly you're from?

I like thwe way you lumped liberals in with the Communists and Socialists. I give you that but in fact IT IS liberals who started the handouts and continue them. Do you serously believe that these handouts benifit equally across all lines? Like D4 said... half a million people with their handout... Hmmmm

Exactly as Obama wants to do.

[Dowadudda]

I am originally from WI. We had a governor, Tommy Thompson, who was elected more or less on the fact he was going to fix the welfare state in the state of WI.

He and the legislature, they got together and basically revamped the system. They still had WIC, food stamps and Welfare and all the same stuff as before, but they required the individual recieving goverment assistance of any kind to be enrolled in atleast part time education in an accredited school. THE STATE WOULD PAY FOR IT.

They also had to be seeking work. The proof was that the government would validate any employer that the beneficiary would list as to whom they sought work from.

The state also put a ton of money in a program that they developed along side the junior colleges that helped with obtraining a GED. There were other requirments I can not remember. But all of the requirments, required the entitlee to be doing something for them to receive benefit.

Let me ask you. How many people took the offer?

It was something like 2% of the original amount of people who were on the list of entitlement programs. They soon moved.

[RoBoTeq]

I think you have a problem to back that up. The welfare system problems Dowadudda is talking about is an American phenomenon and you can not tell me that this country is run by the communists. Socialists, Communists and Liberals are not to blame for entitlement problems of our society, there were just not enough of them in the last 50 years in this country to have this kind of influence.
The Communist Party's in the U.S. do not yet have enough direct inpact to dictate policy or law. However, Communist ideals from Socialistic thinking liberals in positions with political party's that do impact our government have absolutely instilled these Socialistic policies and laws that absolutely do lean toward how Communist governments operate.

Welfare is an American phenomenon? Are you just completely ignorant of world history and world politics? Controlling the masses with promises of the government taking care of those who are willing to be content sheep wallowing in their own feces is typical of many governments over the centuries.

[RoBoTeq]

I will take that bet! (if there is one). I TRULY believe his support is coming from OVERSEAS! MillionS of dollars at $200.00 a pop! No one will have the GONADS to check into his finances fully.... sadly. :mad:
Ya know what? I won't take on your thinking here. Could very well be what you are stating, maybe along with the American elitists...we really don't know, do we?

[RoBoTeq]

I am originally from WI. We had a governor, Tommy Thompson, who was elected more or less on the fact he was going to fix the welfare state in the state of WI.

He and the legislature, they got together and basically revamped the system. They still had WIC, food stamps and Welfare and all the same stuff as before, but they required the individual recieving goverment assistance of any kind to be enrolled in atleast part time education in an accredited school. THE STATE WOULD PAY FOR IT.

They also had to be seeking work. The proof was that the government would validate any employer that the beneficiary would list as to whom they sought work from.

The state also put a ton of money in a program that they developed along side the junior colleges that helped with obtraining a GED. There were other requirments I can not remember. But all of the requirments, required the entitlee to be doing something for them to receive benefit.

Let me ask you. How many people took the offer?

It was something like 2% of the original amount of people who were on the list of entitlement programs. They soon moved.
Years ago a governor of New Jersey did a similar thing. Had those on welfare doing menial government jobs to keep them busy during their hard times. One woman who was given the job of keeping the steps to government buildings clean gave an interview as to how glad she was to be given the chance to feel like she was doing something rather then just being taken care of.

The federal government came down on that program with threats of pulling federal support if New Jersey didn't comply with the way all other states handled their welfare system. That was the end of that.

[jpb2]

Obama is too far out for the mainstream if they are willing to really look at positions and issues. Problem is most dont look and drink the cool aid the media provides. This Igrorance and lack of knowledge is one of our biggest problems. I took to task an administrator at our school about his Obamma support and his answer was the more tax revenue the better. I asked him where will that come from. He said he did not care. Sad

[tostaos]

However, Communist ideals from Socialistic thinking liberals in positions with political party's that do impact our government have absolutely instilled these Socialistic policies and laws that absolutely do lean toward how Communist governments operate.
Is this from a Palin or President Shrub interview? lol it's really hard to understand what you say.

[jpb2]

Is that your best answer ? Wow

[bootlen]

Is this from a Palin or President Shrub interview? lol it's really hard to understand what you say.

Looks more to me like a Robo observation. Accurate one at that.

[Richard Kletty]

This is a load of crap. Moved to ARP...

[tostaos]

...where it belongs. :D:D:D

[RoBoTeq]

Is this from a Palin or President Shrub interview? lol it's really hard to understand what you say.
I'm sorry you don't understand political facts. It doesn't seem to be the only thing you don't comprehend. I just don't know how to put these facts into bumper sticker sized sound bytes, so I guess you will just not be able to understand. Sorry.

[RoBoTeq]

Looks more to me like a Robo observation. Accurate one at that.
Thanks boots. There is definitely nothing in what I stated that I've ever heard any of the candidates discuss.

Maybe I should have just said that liberal political policies in the U.S. are similar to Communist policies elsewhere and leave it at that. But then, the libbies who claim to not understand more detailed information would cry that I'm not being detailed enough.

[RoBoTeq]

...where it belongs. :D:D:D
Only because people like you made it a political issue rather then keeping it a financial issue.

[jrbenny]

...where it belongs. :D:D:D
Only because you made it political on the first page.

[tostaos]

oh, give me a brake, this is a political issue and I want it moved from the first post on...and after stirring the pot up a bit I thought the mods would move it. After page 8 or so I requested to get that thread moved. You guys crack me up and I have no problem to go on with politics in ARP, but it irritates the **** out of me in Marketing & Business.

[k-fridge]

oh, give me a brake, this is a political issue and I want it moved from the first post on...and after stirring the pot up a bit I thought the mods would move it. After page 8 or so I requested to get that thread moved. You guys crack me up and I have no problem to go on with politics in ARP, but it irritates the **** out of me in Marketing & Business.

Just remember it isn't all about you, there's lots of respected people here who's opinions also matter.

With that, it's in ARP now. To the folks who don't usually hang out here...welcome, we hope you enjoy the discussion.

[jpb2]

Thanks k. Edited by ARPC. Against the rules.

[rango]

Did you guys ever realized that all this plans from presidential politicians are just ideas? Presidents don't make laws, it's the congress. lol


Unfortunately for us, if the body in the big house has politics that match the majority in the other house we get hosed no matter which party it is.

[Frostie]

I personally don't have too much of a problem with the government giving handouts to people down on their luck, whatever, it doesn't actually cost that much.

What I do have a problem with is government giving handouts to big businesses that have seen year after year of profits, yet in a down year the government sets to intervene and influence the free market system. These types of handouts, through tax breaks, regulations and direct cash injections, create a ripple effect in the economy that the government has no control of and are unable to predict their impacts. If your worried about the socialization or communization of our social structure, that pales in comparison to the socialization and centralization of our economy. People will always be different socially, their cultures and traditions guide them as well as any government program could ever attempt to do...but when you start to mess around with the economic structure and allow it to fall into the hands of regulators and politicians the people have no where to turn if things fall through and become rotten. (see AIG bailout)

[tostaos]

don't get me wrong, I don't like to bail out the rich from their mistakes at the Casino Wall Street. That's why they need to pay the taxes so the public can bail them out.
A big problem is that there are many people who believe in a total free market without regulation and don't realize that a lot of innocent bystanders get hurt when the rich play their games. Today's large companies are too big, they are so big that you can not let them fail. They should probably be broken up so we would have a healthier system. They seem to me like dinosaurs and they did not survive either.

[tostaos]

American phenomenom? I don't know of any industrialized country where you have so many people sitting on their asses and ask for a handout and feel to be entitled to get them. When the US would be a socialist country, that would never happen, they all would have to get up from their TV and do something. Socialist countries make you work.
Helpful to not have that many people on welfare would be higher minimum pay, high enough that people don't have to ask for handouts. I do realize that that would kill some jobs. I think that would be still better. People would have to work harder to be worth the money they cost their employer which could help America to get more competitive. Work ethic in the States of many employees is just plain horrible.

[BigJon3475]

An increase in "the demand for investment and labor" translates into an increase in jobs. So if lowering these tax rates creates jobs, then it stands to reason that raising these taxes will mean fewer jobs, says the Journal:
From 2002 to 2007, with lower tax rates in place, the U.S. economy added 8 million jobs, or about 125,000 per month.
Small business wrote the paychecks for up to 80 percent of new jobs in 2005.Yet, with Obama's plan, the small- and medium-sized businesses that create most of the new jobs will be hit the hardest:
According to the Senate Finance Committee, of the filers in the highest two tax brackets, three out of four are small business owners.
A typical firm with a net income of $500,000 would see its tax burden rise from $146,000 to $166,000 a year under Obama's plan.Moreover, Obama's tax increase would hit the bottom line of small businesses in three ways, says the Journal:
Because 85 percent of small business owners are taxed at the personal income tax rate, any moderately successful business with an income above as little as $165,000 a year could face a higher tax liability.
The Obama plan phases out tax deductions, raising tax rates imposed on this group by 1.5 percentage points.
Small business owners will be required to pay a 4 percentage point payroll tax surcharge on net income above $250,000.All of this would bring the federal marginal small business tax rate up to 45 percent, while big business would continue to pay the 35 percent corporate tax rate, says the Journal.


http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17174
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455021772252457.html

Did you want to learn more about what and how Obama's scalpel is going to dissect your business?

[BigJon3475]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122420205889842989.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Be ready to raise your trip fees:
- The business climate. "We have some harsh decisions to make," Speaker Nancy Pelosi warned recently, speaking about retribution for the financial panic. Look for a replay of the Pecora hearings of the 1930s, with Henry Waxman, John Conyers and Ed Markey sponsoring ritual hangings to further their agenda to control more of the private economy. The financial industry will get an overhaul in any case, but telecom, biotech and drug makers, among many others, can expect to be investigated and face new, more onerous rules. See the "Issues and Legislation" tab on Mr. Waxman's Web site for a not-so-brief target list.
The danger is that Democrats could cause the economic downturn to last longer than it otherwise will by enacting regulatory overkill like Sarbanes-Oxley. Something more punitive is likely as well, for instance a windfall profits tax on oil, and maybe other industries.


Hope you can afford a unionized shop....just in case:
- Union supremacy. One program certain to be given right of way is "card check." Unions have been in decline for decades, now claiming only 7.4&#37; of the private-sector work force, so Big Labor wants to trash the secret-ballot elections that have been in place since the 1930s. The "Employee Free Choice Act" would convert workplaces into union shops merely by gathering signatures from a majority of employees, which means organizers could strongarm those who opposed such a petition.
The bill also imposes a compulsory arbitration regime that results in an automatic two-year union "contract" after 130 days of failed negotiation. The point is to force businesses to recognize a union whether the workers support it or not. This would be the biggest pro-union shift in the balance of labor-management power since the Wagner Act of 1935.

[tostaos]

OK, I agree, I don't like paying taxes...but please tell me who will pay the deficit? Our kids or our grand kids?

[RoBoTeq]

OK, I agree, I don't like paying taxes...but please tell me who will pay the deficit? Our kids or our grand kids?
If all of the liberal entertainers would just hold a years worth of "U.S. Relief" shows around the world we could be debt free this time next year:cool:.

[BigJon3475]

OK, I agree, I don't like paying taxes...but please tell me who will pay the deficit? Our kids or our grand kids?

You are under the assumption deficits are bad. What better control over a country than to control it's income? The US is imperialistic but it's for the betterment of mankind. If it ever turns cheek and takes on the ways of socialism or communism kiss humanity goodbye.

[BigJon3475]

______ did extremely well at primary school and it appeared he had a bright academic future in front of him. He was also popular with other pupils and was much admired for his leadership qualities.

______ was ______ when his father died. His death did not cause the family financial hardships.

In ________ _______ died from cancer. Her death affected him far more deeply than the death of his father. He had fond memories of his mother, carried her photograph wherever he went and, it is claimed, had it in his hand when she died in ______.

_______ always arrived late which helped to develop tension and a sense of expectation. He took the stage, stood to attention and waited until there was complete silence before he started his speech. For the first few months _______ appeared nervous and spoke haltingly. Slowly he would begin to relax and his style of delivery would change His voice would get louder and become more passionate.

To appeal to the working class and _________, the programme included several measures that would redistribute income and war profits, profit-sharing in large industries, nationalization of trusts, increases in old-age pensions and free education.

_______ knew that the growth in the party was mainly due to his skills as an orator and in the autumn of ____ he challenged ________ for the leadership of the party. After brief resistance ______ accepted the inevitable, and ______ became the new leader of the___________.

In _____ the ______ Government had to deal with a series of difficult problems. In January the_____________ occupied the_________ because they claimed ______ was falling behind with her _________. Workers in the _______ responded by going on strike which badly hurt the ______ economy. One of the consequences of this was rapid inflation. As people found their savings becoming worthless, they turned against their government.
________ publisher reduced it to____________. The book is a mixture of autobiography, political ideas and an explanation of the techniques of propaganda. The autobiographical details in_________ are often inaccurate, and the main purpose of this part of the book appears to be to provide a positive image of ______. For example, when _______ was living a life of leisure in ________ he claims he was working hard as a laborer.

________ began to argue that "capitalists had worked their way to the top through their capacity, and on the basis of this selection they have the right to lead." ______ claimed that national socialism meant all people doing their best for society and posed no threat to the wealth of the rich. Some prosperous industrialists were convinced by these arguments and gave donations to the ______ Party, however, the vast majority continued to support other parties, especially the right-wing ____________.

What _____ said depended very much on the audience. In rural areas he promised tax cuts for farmers and government acting to protect food prices. In working class areas he spoke of redistribution of wealth and attacked the high profits made by the large chain stores.
Youth unemployment was dealt with by the forming of the Voluntary Labor Service and the Voluntary Youth Service, a scheme similar to the ________ introduced by ___________ in the ___________. The _________ planted forests, repaired river banks and helped reclaim wasteland.

[RoBoTeq]

______ did extremely well at primary school and it appeared he had a bright academic future in front of him. He was also popular with other pupils and was much admired for his leadership qualities.

______ was ______ when his father died. His death did not cause the family financial hardships.

In ________ _______ died from cancer. Her death affected him far more deeply than the death of his father. He had fond memories of his mother, carried her photograph wherever he went and, it is claimed, had it in his hand when she died in ______.

_______ always arrived late which helped to develop tension and a sense of expectation. He took the stage, stood to attention and waited until there was complete silence before he started his speech. For the first few months _______ appeared nervous and spoke haltingly. Slowly he would begin to relax and his style of delivery would change His voice would get louder and become more passionate.

To appeal to the working class and _________, the programme included several measures that would redistribute income and war profits, profit-sharing in large industries, nationalization of trusts, increases in old-age pensions and free education.

_______ knew that the growth in the party was mainly due to his skills as an orator and in the autumn of ____ he challenged ________ for the leadership of the party. After brief resistance ______ accepted the inevitable, and ______ became the new leader of the___________.

In _____ the ______ Government had to deal with a series of difficult problems. In January the_____________ occupied the_________ because they claimed ______ was falling behind with her _________. Workers in the _______ responded by going on strike which badly hurt the ______ economy. One of the consequences of this was rapid inflation. As people found their savings becoming worthless, they turned against their government.
________ publisher reduced it to____________. The book is a mixture of autobiography, political ideas and an explanation of the techniques of propaganda. The autobiographical details in_________ are often inaccurate, and the main purpose of this part of the book appears to be to provide a positive image of ______. For example, when _______ was living a life of leisure in ________ he claims he was working hard as a laborer.

________ began to argue that "capitalists had worked their way to the top through their capacity, and on the basis of this selection they have the right to lead." ______ claimed that national socialism meant all people doing their best for society and posed no threat to the wealth of the rich. Some prosperous industrialists were convinced by these arguments and gave donations to the ______ Party, however, the vast majority continued to support other parties, especially the right-wing ____________.

What _____ said depended very much on the audience. In rural areas he promised tax cuts for farmers and government acting to protect food prices. In working class areas he spoke of redistribution of wealth and attacked the high profits made by the large chain stores.
Youth unemployment was dealt with by the forming of the Voluntary Labor Service and the Voluntary Youth Service, a scheme similar to the ________ introduced by ___________ in the ___________. The _________ planted forests, repaired river banks and helped reclaim wasteland.
What the hell is this supposed to be?

[BigJon3475]

Fill in the blank. You can use Obama and local events or Hitler and historical events. :o

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm

[RoBoTeq]

Fill in the blank. You can use Obama and local events or Hitler and historical events. :o

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm
I still don't get what use this is. I'm not so sure I would parralel Obama with Hitler at all. More like Obama and Castro or some of the current South American and African dictators.

[BigJon3475]

I still don't get what use this is. I'm not so sure I would parralel Obama with Hitler at all. More like Obama and Castro or some of the current South American and African dictators.

The black liberation theme and a hate for a race......

I know it's far fetched :o and more or less just interesting to see how similar their upbringings are.