How about "Joe the Plumber"

[air2spare]

This guy should be running for president!


http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=10234399

[bootlen]

Go, Joe!

[BigJon3475]

They have already started vilifying him:

No license: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJsPHiQlgYvAsrHz9mvHJlezQJLwD93RONUO0
Owes taxes: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=6047360&page=1
His right to vote: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418/-1/NEWS


So I looked up Newell on here: https://www.comapps.ohio.gov/dic/dico_apps/lics/coemp_lookup/default.aspx

Low and behold Alan Newell has both a Pl and HY license. Our lovely unbiased news media.

[RoBoTeq]

Amazing. The Obamanites just don't get it that Joe the Plumber simply "represents" the working class hero's of this country. Just because this particular Joe has exagerrated his lot in life should not even be an issue. Hell, lots of times the "Joes" that are publicized are actors.

[bootlen]

I wish BO would bring his sorry anus to Beaufort. I know about 40 high school kids who would embarrass him.

[air2spare]

owing $1200 in back taxes doesn't necessarily discredit anyone. The IRS came after me once saying I owed $18,000 in back taxes. I hired a tax pro (wasn't cheap) and when the smoke cleared they owed me almost $2000. They never paid me the money saying too much time has passed and of coarse they didn't reimburse my expenses of proving them wrong....so who's the bad guy here?

I love this country, flag and constitution but despise our politics...the founding fathers would be sickened :(

[chillerfreak]

Do I understand this????

1-Joe the Plumber is worried that when he starts making $250K he will have to pay 39% instead of 35%?....wonder how much he is making now?

2-Joe plans on declaring $250K personal income when he owns the company?....whats up with that?

If you ask me Joe's been sniffing to much pipe glue...:D


Oh yeah...I'm worried about having to give my notice when I win the lottery:eek:

[BigJon3475]

owing $1200 in back taxes doesn't necessarily discredit anyone. The IRS came after me once saying I owed $18,000 in back taxes. I hired a tax pro (wasn't cheap) and when the smoke cleared they owed me almost $2000. They never paid me the money saying too much time has passed and of coarse they didn't reimburse my expenses of proving them wrong....so who's the bad guy here?

I love this country, flag and constitution but despise our politics...the founding fathers would be sickened :(

The lien was sent to a previous address.

[BigJon3475]

Do I understand this????

1-Joe the Plumber is worried that when he starts making $250K he will have to pay 39% instead of 35%?....wonder how much he is making now?

2-Joe plans on declaring $250K personal income when he owns the company?....whats up with that?

If you ask me Joe's been sniffing to much pipe glue...:D


Oh yeah...I'm worried about having to give my notice when I win the lottery:eek:

The business as it stands is a $100k/year two man operation.

[BigJon3475]

Amazing. The Obamanites just don't get it that Joe the Plumber simply "represents" the working class hero's of this country. Just because this particular Joe has exagerrated his lot in life should not even be an issue. Hell, lots of times the "Joes" that are publicized are actors.

If you destroy anything relating to the person that has a question you win.....


The online forum mentality :confused:

[chillerfreak]

Amazing. The Obamanites just don't get it that Joe the Plumber simply "represents" the working class hero's of this country. Just because this particular Joe has exagerrated his lot in life should not even be an issue. Hell, lots of times the "Joes" that are publicized are actors.

I wouldn't call myself an Obamanite....but I'll pick my own hero's thankyou...:rolleyes:....he can be your hero Robo....mine will most likely be a steamfitter...They have torches and attitudes...:D....plus way cool hats!

[chillerfreak]

If you destroy anything relating to the person that has a question you win.....


The online forum mentality :confused:

McCains campaign strategy?????:confused:

[RoBoTeq]

I wouldn't call myself an Obamanite....but I'll pick my own hero's thankyou...:rolleyes:....he can be your hero Robo....mine will most likely be a steamfitter...They have torches and attitudes...:D....plus way cool hats!
Well, you have proved my point. Obviously I wouldn't personally choose a plumber either, burnt air techs are the truly superior working class heros;)

[RoBoTeq]

McCains campaign strategy?????:confused:
Please, do tell us who Obama really is, where he came from, how he got to where he is and who is really pulling his strings. We know very little that can be considered absolute truth about Obama.

Just accurately define the man for me. He seems to be an enigma sprung up from nowhere.

[Snapperhead]

Please, do tell us who Obama really is, where he came from, how he got to where he is and who is really pulling his strings.
oh thats easy .... Howdy Doody

Bob Smith used to pull his strings , and now Nancy Pelosi will take over .


http://www.doodyville.com/

[bootlen]

Do I understand this????

1-Joe the Plumber is worried that when he starts making $250K he will have to pay 39% instead of 35%?....wonder how much he is making now?

2-Joe plans on declaring $250K personal income when he owns the company?....whats up with that?

If you ask me Joe's been sniffing to much pipe glue...:D


Oh yeah...I'm worried about having to give my notice when I win the lottery:eek:

If you paid attention, you'd know his complaint is that BO wants to penalize businessmen for being more successful. BO's incentive is to be less successful.

Sorry, chiller. THAT is NOT the American way.

Or do you think it is?

[chaard]

Joe the Plumber speaks.

He makes a good point on GMA.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=10234011

[chaard]

Joe needs to seize the oppurtunity and get his licenses, trademark the name "Joe the Plumber" and franchise the business, like RotoRooter. He could be a millionaire in no time.

[k-fridge]

Joe needs to seize the oppurtunity and get his licenses, trademark the name "Joe the Plumber" and franchise the business, like RotoRooter. He could be a millionaire in no time.

That's a great idea.


Maybe you missed your calling Chaard.


Hmmmm, the ad campaign....


Is your plumbing Taxing your nerves? Elect to call Joe the Plumber, we'll spread the poo around.

[chaard]

lol

[chillerfreak]

If you paid attention, you'd know his complaint is that BO wants to penalize businessmen for being more successful. BO's incentive is to be less successful.

Sorry, chiller. THAT is NOT the American way.

Or do you think it is?

Nothing wrong about wanting success for other people...him worrying about paying taxes on 250K is like me worrying about CEO's not getting their golden parachute....

Most of the "working class" people I know are worrying about insurance benefits, having work, price of fuel etc......It would be nice to worry about 36% versus 39% on 250K...:)

[classical]

If you are a small business owner as I am and many others on this forum are that 250K figure is very troubling. Since most small business owners pay personal taxes as part of their business income. Let’s say my company does 300K in total sales and my expenditures are 220K that means my 80K personal income is taxed at 39% on 300K.

Fortunately I am incorporated and am not in that situation, but many are. More than anything else Osama’s tax redistribution plan will severely impact the income of small business owners and spread our hard earned and well deserved income to those that don't work for or deserve it.

[Mikeylikesit]

Do I understand this????

1-Joe the Plumber is worried that when he starts making $250K he will have to pay 39% instead of 35%?....wonder how much he is making now?

2-Joe plans on declaring $250K personal income when he owns the company?....whats up with that?

If you ask me Joe's been sniffing to much pipe glue...:D


Oh yeah...I'm worried about having to give my notice when I win the lottery:eek:


WOOOOOSH!


(right over his head).

[acmanko]

If Joe was investing his SS retirement as he wanted to to , the taxpayer would be bailing out his ignorant butt also.
He definetly has been unstopping to much sh!t, that wasn't his

[hvacker]

Paper said ol' Joe had to grudgeingly admit when explained to him that his taxes would be less under Obama's plan.

I don't think Joe should be in business. It sounds like he doesn't know the difference between gross and net income and I'm fairly sure schedule "C" also.
It doesn't seem like Joe's a heavyweight upstairs.

Chaard has a good idea opportunity there. Maybe no one would figure out that Joe wasn't really involved in the business Joe The Plumber.

[hvacker]

[QUOTE=classical;2017649]If you are a small business owner as I am and many others on this forum are that 250K figure is very troubling. Since most small business owners pay personal taxes as part of their business income. Let’s say my company does 300K in total sales and my expenditures are 220K that means my 80K personal income is taxed at 39% on 300K.

Taxed on $80000 is almost never the case as that represents gross income.
Deductions like mortgage interest, health ins premiums, home office, alimony, charity donations and more greatly reduce tax liability.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Folks, you have missed a point here:

Remember back in the 1970's (well us old foggies do)... how much did things cost?

A home could be purchased for $50K,
A new Van was less than $10K,
Gas was still under $1/gal...

Compare this to now...

What happened? Price inflation. Who caused price inflation? Lousy management of the economy by the government.

Now lets look at the AMT, the alternative minimum tax.

Back in the 70's, not that many folks make enough $$$ to be subject to it... but now lots of us 'working stiffs' get shafted by it.

What happens when (not if) we have another round of price inflation?

The cost of living goes up, and our wages go up... but the tax laws stay the same... and we end up paying more taxes due to bracket creep...

So just because it appears today that the 'rich' are getting taxed, does not particularly mean that tomorrow I may be one of the 'rich' and have to pay those higher taxes.

You see, things are not as they appear... one needs to see a bigger picture to avoid being screwed by the players on the Potomac... :mad:

[RoBoTeq]

WOOOOOSH!


(right over his head).
It's easy for things to go over the heads of those who are usually on their knees:p

[chillerfreak]

It's easy for things to go over the heads of those who are usually on their knees:p

You should be an expert Robo...:D

[RoBoTeq]

You should be an expert Robo...:D
I'm no expert. I am a commision salesman. Half of my truck is filled with knee pads:eek:

[frozensolid]

I think robo likes it on better all fours. :)

McCain brought up joe the plumber. McCain Took away his privacy when he made him famous. Now McCain blames Obama for joes woes.

I think it was Adolph Hitler who said "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed".


I just saw some rep B!tch Senator on TV saying that the liberals in congress should be investigated for un-American activities.


I mourn for America. Partisanship is killing Liberty and laughing while it does. When will we all stop our partisan nonsense and become Americans again?

[whec720]

I think robo likes it on better all fours. :)

McCain brought up joe the plumber. McCain Took away his privacy when he made him famous. Now McCain blames Obama for joes woes.

I think it was Adolph Hitler who said "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed".


I just saw some rep B!tch Senator on TV saying that the liberals in congress should be investigated for un-American activities.


I mourn for America. Partisanship is killing Liberty and laughing while it does. When will we all stop our partisan nonsense and become Americans again?

I suppose asking a question or simply questioning motives of politicians is "partisan". Whats a good definition of an "American", Frozen? One who blindly gobbles up all the lies from the Democrats and the MSM, sound about right? Have fun forking over half your paycheck to these idiots. Don't b!cth...you may be accused of being "partisan".:rolleyes:

[frozensolid]

I don't like either side. I think it is a disgrace to our nation to say this is the best we have.

The problem is you can't tell lies from truth anymore. When everyone lies, do lies become truth? Or is truth a a partisan reality? Everyone believes only their side tells the truth. When in fact their is very little truth on either side.

Until the Constitution is finally burned, I still have the right to my opinion. Just as you do.

[RoBoTeq]

I think robo likes it on better all fours. :)

McCain brought up joe the plumber. McCain Took away his privacy when he made him famous. Now McCain blames Obama for joes woes.

I think it was Adolph Hitler who said "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed".


I just saw some rep B!tch Senator on TV saying that the liberals in congress should be investigated for un-American activities.


I mourn for America. Partisanship is killing Liberty and laughing while it does. When will we all stop our partisan nonsense and become Americans again?
Wow! A little angry there, eh frozen?

Joe the plumber made himself available to the public, so stop trying to lay some sort of blame where there is none.

When it comes to lies, I am not sure anything that Obama has ever said or claimed in writing is true anymore. Just what is it you expect to gain by having Obama as our president?

[RoBoTeq]

I don't like either side. I think it is a disgrace to our nation to say this is the best we have.

The problem is you can't tell lies from truth anymore. When everyone lies, do lies become truth? Or is truth a a partisan reality? Everyone believes only their side tells the truth. When in fact their is very little truth on either side.

Until the Constitution is finally burned, I still have the right to my opinion. Just as you do.
Where is McCain lying? McCain's life is very open and well documented. McCain freely tells about his friends and acquantences and what McCain claims about his family members is documented by others then McCain. We can not be sure of anything about Obama.

[frozensolid]

Wow! A little angry there, eh frozen?

Joe the plumber made himself available to the public, so stop trying to lay some sort of blame where there is none.

When it comes to lies, I am not sure anything that Obama has ever said or claimed in writing is true anymore. Just what is it you expect to gain by having Obama as our president?


What do you expect by having McCain? Truth "you funny guy"

[RoBoTeq]

What do you expect by having McCain? Truth "you funny guy"
Once again; where has McCain lied? Obama has been documented to have lied on numerous occasions about his life, his friends, his family, his achievements etc. Just where has John McCain lied?

Then there is the great plagerist, Joe Biden. Geez, this guy took someone elses life story and tried to pass it off as his own. When politicians so blatantly lie as recent Democrats running for office have been, it shows they have no respect whatsoever for the general population. That my friend, is elitism.

[frozensolid]

Having seven houses is pretty elite too. Go buy some oil stock robo.


I like Lettermans approach "John isn't David Duke a friend of yours".

[bootlen]

FS, you are so mis/uninformed. But go ahead. Vote for BO. You got it coming to you.

[whec720]

FS, you are so mis/uninformed. But go ahead. Vote for BO. You got it coming to you.

If he admits it, that would make him "partisan"!:eek::D

[glennac]

What do you expect by having McCain? Truth "you funny guy"

I expect not to go head strong into a socialist state and maybe a communist takeover similar in to what happened in Venezuela when Chavez brought the "mobs" out into the street and just took over with the commie loving ex president Carter giving his blessing.

[bb]

When will we all stop our partisan nonsense and become Americans again?

When ignorant people stop making these kinds of comments.

I just saw some rep B!tch Senator on TV saying that the liberals in congress should be investigated for un-American activities.

[frozensolid]

When ignorant people stop making these kinds of comments.

I just saw some rep B!tch Senator on TV saying that the liberals in congress should be investigated for un-American activities.



The ignorant part was her saying that. If she was a dem I would have said the same thing. Sounds like a return of McCarthyism to me. But if you want to believe me ignorant, more power to you.

[k-fridge]

Ok...truth comes out. Just heard an Obama staffer on Fox news....the news babe nailed her down on the tax threshold. It's $250'000 gross, so yes it will nail all you sole proprieterships out there.

Welcome to our recession.

[whec720]

Ok...truth comes out. Just heard an Obama staffer on Fox news....the news babe nailed her down on the tax threshold. It's $250'000 gross, so yes it will nail all you sole proprieterships out there.

Welcome to our recession.

Sounds like some "change" you can believe in.:rolleyes:

[ga-hvac-tech]

Ok...truth comes out. Just heard an Obama staffer on Fox news....the news babe nailed her down on the tax threshold. It's $250'000 gross, so yes it will nail all you sole proprieterships out there.


OK lets see if I have this correct: If I am a sole proprietor, and my TOTAL GROSS sales are $250,000 or more (regardless of how much or little I get to take home), then I am one of the lucky ones to pay higher taxes...

So if I understand this correctly: lets say I am a hack that gets $1000 per install before expenses. And just for discussion, the total material costs are $1750.00 (including equipment and misc stuff). Now lets say I do 100 installs for the year...

That comes to $275,000 gross sales. So now I am one of the lucky ones that Mr Obama gets to take more of my hard earned $$$ and spread it around (whether I like it or not, regardless of how much or how little I get to take home).

And if we have a substantial round of inflation (which my sources say we will), that could well be more like 65 or 75 installs gets one well over $250,000 gross sales...

So, do you still think McCain is the bad guy? (Before you answer that, remember that John McCain and GW Bush are NOT the same folks, and they do NOT have the same policies).

[frozensolid]

Before you get all silly there.....Total sales are not gross income. Your net profit on a job goes to your personal gross income. Cost of sales and expenses all come off before it turns into income.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Before you get all silly there.....Total sales are not gross income. Your net profit on a job goes to your personal gross income. Cost of sales and expenses all come off before it turns into income.

It appears to me we are back to the classic part of politics... we have a situation where one person that believes in Mr Obama will trust him, and one that does not believe in Mr Obama will not trust him...

Given that my tax money is at stake, which one is safer for me???

Or to put it a different way; would I risk a higher tax bracket over a difference of opinion concerning accounting terms?

[RoBoTeq]

Having seven houses is pretty elite too. Go buy some oil stock robo.


I like Lettermans approach "John isn't David Duke a friend of yours".
Typical Obama Socialist liberal, won't acknowledge questions to avoid admitting they have no answers.

Why won't you answer any of my questions?

[classical]

Before you get all silly there.....Total sales are not gross income. Your net profit on a job goes to your personal gross income. Cost of sales and expenses all come off before it turns into income.

Not necessarily Texas passed a business tax law last year that taxes gross sales/income anything over $300,000 is taxed. Can't say what the rate is because even the geniuses that wrote he law cannot agree on the rate or how to compute your liability. From what I have read and heard this is what Obama is talking about. That means for a $1,000,000 a year company his increase is between $30,000 and $40,000 additional tax. Man that is a heavy hit for anyone.

What does that mean to your business, it could mean several new trucks a year or training for an apprentice? It means that businesses will not expand and grow just stagnate. It has meant in Texas a company considers staying below $300,000 a year in gross sales instead of growing. Why would someone want to grow above $300,000 and get hit with a tax takes all the profit away.

Right now I am a one man operation and I will break $220,000 this year, I am considering bringing on another tech next year and a second truck. I want to grow considerably in the next few years but with the hit Texas is going to take and the one Obama plans I am reconsidering that option.

I have an opportunity to take a sales position for a large filtration company, well into the six figures level with great benefits. I take a big hit on closing my business with the things I have taken on in the last year but I may not have any real viable choice. How is that for promoting a business environment?

[frozensolid]

Typical Obama Socialist liberal, won't acknowledge questions to avoid admitting they have no answers.

Why won't you answer any of my questions?

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html

[tostaos]

If you are a small business owner as I am and many others on this forum are that 250K figure is very troubling. Since most small business owners pay personal taxes as part of their business income. Let’s say my company does 300K in total sales and my expenditures are 220K that means my 80K personal income is taxed at 39% on 300K.

Fortunately I am incorporated and am not in that situation, but many are. More than anything else Osama’s tax redistribution plan will severely impact the income of small business owners and spread our hard earned and well deserved income to those that don't work for or deserve it.You republicans love to spin it. This is just so wrong, I have to laugh, the democrats talk about $250K net profit, most of us will never be affected by that and when I would be affected, I would love to pay more taxes, that would mean I make a lot of money.

[RoBoTeq]

I work for a company of about 50 people. The owner of the company said he and his accountants figured up the increase in the company taxes to be about a $140k increase. That is about the cost of two employees. So, to keep the same amount of profit that has allowed this company to grow at a consistant rate over the past five years, two employees will need to be eliminated.

That will certainly be "change" for those two employees:rolleyes:

[ga-hvac-tech]

You republicans love to spin it. This is just so wrong, I have to laugh, the democrats talk about $250K net profit, most of us will never be affected by that and when I would be affected, I would love to pay more taxes, that would mean I make a lot of money.

What about inflation?

Back when the AMT tax was passed, most of the population thought it was only 'for the rich'... now one living a little above poverty gets hit by the AMT tax... and the Dems are stalling the repeal of that tax.

Bracket creep WILL happen my friend, and you WILL end up paying more tax... with $$$ that buy less personal stuff.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I work for a company of about 50 people. The owner of the company said he and his accountants figured up the increase in the company taxes to be about a $140k increase. That is about the cost of two employees. So, to keep the same amount of profit that has allowed this company to grow at a consistant rate over the past five years, two employees will need to be eliminated.

That will certainly be "change" for those two employees:rolleyes:

This is no-nonsense proof that Mr Obama's tax policy is NOT a good idea...

[whec720]

I work for a company of about 50 people. The owner of the company said he and his accountants figured up the increase in the company taxes to be about a $140k increase. That is about the cost of two employees. So, to keep the same amount of profit that has allowed this company to grow at a consistant rate over the past five years, two employees will need to be eliminated.

That will certainly be "change" for those two employees:rolleyes:

It is all part of "spreading the wealth".:D

[tostaos]

This is no-nonsense proof that Mr Obama's tax policy is NOT a good idea...Great, let's vote republican, no taxes just more deficit till the Chinese own everything.

[frozensolid]

I work for a company of about 50 people. The owner of the company said he and his accountants figured up the increase in the company taxes to be about a $140k increase. That is about the cost of two employees. So, to keep the same amount of profit that has allowed this company to grow at a consistant rate over the past five years, two employees will need to be eliminated.

That will certainly be "change" for those two employees:rolleyes:


I think I have finally seen you reach a new plateau.....That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen you post.
Congrats on the new record. :)

[ga-hvac-tech]

Great, let's vote republican, no taxes just more deficit till the Chinese own everything.

Tax money is the power government uses to control... take away the money used to promise free-bees, and accountability and responsibility come back.

But liberals do not want that, they might have to go earn a living... :eek:

[frozensolid]

Great, let's vote republican, no taxes just more deficit till the Chinese own everything.
Your wasting your breath. Around here they either modify or ignore the facts to fit their thinking.

I have already stated I don't agree with either party. I also said they both lie. But because I don't agree with their party I am an ignorant democrat, commie, liberal.

Actually I am an American Independent who can actually think for myself. I don't need a party to tell me what to believe, I go with those little things called facts. How dare I. :)

[ga-hvac-tech]

I think I have finally seen you reach a new plateau.....That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen you post.
Congrats on the new record. :)

Pardon me, but I really do not understand...

Proof positive has been given that a proposed tax policy is a bad idea, it will not increase employment, it will not grow the economy, and it will not raise GDP... and it is a new low to reveal the facts???

Would it be too much to ask for an explanation, I really do not understand this??? :confused:

[RoBoTeq]

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html
First off, that is not a news article, it is an opinion piece by a very liberal Joe Klein. Joe Klein is using the same tactics in that editorial that he is accusing John McCain of using in his speeches.

Is Obama for government controlled health care? Yes. Just because you call it something else while acknowledging it is being run by and paid for by the government does not excuse that it is a Socialized program; it is.

Did Obama say he was against offshore oil drilling. OK, not exactly in those words, but to use Obama's bullcrap dodge statement that he is "open" to offshore oil drilling is just a ruse to not admit that he will not support offshore oil drilling which is another way of saying he is against offshore oil drilling.

In contrast to these slanted viewpoints of another ultra liberal, Obama has blatantly lied about most every venue of his life. Real lies, not opinions of those who are using alternative vernacular to attempt to "change" the intent of accusations.

If you ask me, McCain has not told enough truths about Obama. And please note that Joe Klein's editorial is once again about the contraversies of who Obama is and what Obama stands for. We don't have that kind of issue with McCain.

Even in the last debate, Obama again whined that McCain was running a nasty campaign because McCain ads accused Obama of lying. McCain responded by pointing out two of Obama's lies. Obama could not deny the accusations so he "changed" the subject.

Obama was for immediate withdraw from Iraq in the primaries, now he is for a refined withdraw from Iraq.

Obama was for unconditional talks with our enemies in the primaries, now he is for talks with preparations, whatever that means.

Obama supported public financing and said he would use it in the primaries, the he opted out of public financing. Guess he got too much money from all of the Muslims who support him.

Obama rallied to fillibuster the FISA bill in the primaries, then he voted for the FISA bill.

Obama wanted to renegotiate NAFTA in the primaries, then he decided not to renegotiate NAFTA, and now it seems he completely against NAFTA.

In the primaries Obama opposed welfare reform, now he supports it.

In 2004, Obama said he was not experienced enough to run for president in 2008, and yet, here he is.

Can we believe anything that Obama claims he stands for? Only if Obama states that he stands for saying anything that will get him in the White House.

With McCain, we know what we are getting. I may not think that John McCain is the best person to be president, but I believe he is what he claims to be. I have no clue as to who Obama is or what Obama's real beliefs in anything are.

As far as I know, Obama could have been a co-conspirator with Bill Ayers to get dupes like Timothy McVeigh to bomb the federal building in Oklahoma City. Yes, there is that much contraversy about who Obama is and what is real agenda is.

[RoBoTeq]

I think I have finally seen you reach a new plateau.....That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen you post.
Congrats on the new record. :)
You may want to discuss this with your accountant. It seems to me that your company may be in about the same boat.

[frozensolid]

Lets say his boss is gonna pay 7% more in tax. Then that $140000.00 means he is making about 2 or three mill a year now (depending on deductions). So because he will now pay more taxes he is going to cut 2 employees. Cutting those two employees out of spite is going to cut his ability to sell.

Lets say he has 10% net this would mean he sells 20-30 mill a year. so each employee means about 400-600 thou a year in sales. So rather than take less income he is going to cut his throat and lay off people so he can sell less which will reduce his income more. I don't get it.

[whec720]

Great, let's vote republican, no taxes just more deficit till the Chinese own everything.

Yeah, like Democrats are going to abolish the Federal Reserve.:rolleyes:

[frozensolid]

First off, that is not a news article, it is an opinion piece by a very liberal Joe Klein. Joe Klein is using the same tactics in that editorial that he is accusing John McCain of using in his speeches.

Is Obama for government controlled health care? Yes. Just because you call it something else while acknowledging it is being run by and paid for by the government does not excuse that it is a Socialized program; it is.

Did Obama say he was against offshore oil drilling. OK, not exactly in those words, but to use Obama's bullcrap dodge statement that he is "open" to offshore oil drilling is just a ruse to not admit that he will not support offshore oil drilling which is another way of saying he is against offshore oil drilling.

In contrast to these slanted viewpoints of another ultra liberal, Obama has blatantly lied about most every venue of his life. Real lies, not opinions of those who are using alternative vernacular to attempt to "change" the intent of accusations.

If you ask me, McCain has not told enough truths about Obama. And please note that Joe Klein's editorial is once again about the contraversies of who Obama is and what Obama stands for. We don't have that kind of issue with McCain.

Even in the last debate, Obama again whined that McCain was running a nasty campaign because McCain ads accused Obama of lying. McCain responded by pointing out two of Obama's lies. Obama could not deny the accusations so he "changed" the subject.

Obama was for immediate withdraw from Iraq in the primaries, now he is for a refined withdraw from Iraq.

Obama was for unconditional talks with our enemies in the primaries, now he is for talks with preparations, whatever that means.

Obama supported public financing and said he would use it in the primaries, the he opted out of public financing. Guess he got too much money from all of the Muslims who support him.

Obama rallied to fillibuster the FISA bill in the primaries, then he voted for the FISA bill.

Obama wanted to renegotiate NAFTA in the primaries, then he decided not to renegotiate NAFTA, and now it seems he completely against NAFTA.

In the primaries Obama opposed welfare reform, now he supports it.

In 2004, Obama said he was not experienced enough to run for president in 2008, and yet, here he is.

Can we believe anything that Obama claims he stands for? Only if Obama states that he stands for saying anything that will get him in the White House.

With McCain, we know what we are getting. I may not think that John McCain is the best person to be president, but I believe he is what he claims to be. I have no clue as to who Obama is or what Obama's real beliefs in anything are.

As far as I know, Obama could have been a co-conspirator with Bill Ayers to get dupes like Timothy McVeigh to bomb the federal building in Oklahoma City. Yes, there is that much contraversy about who Obama is and what is real agenda is.


Have you met tinker bell in while LA LA land.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Lets say his boss is gonna pay 7% more in tax. Then that $140000.00 means he is making about 2 or three mill a year now (depending on deductions). So because he will now pay more taxes he is going to cut 2 employees. Cutting those two employees out of spite is going to cut his ability to sell.

Lets say he has 10% net this would mean he sells 20-30 mill a year. so each employee means about 400-600 thou a year in sales. So rather than take less income he is going to cut his throat and lay off people so he can sell less which will reduce his income more. I don't get it.

When the economy goes south, big corps lay off folks and raise the work load on the remaining folks... This is the reason they lay off the older employees and keep the kids... it is called increasing productivity.

The solution is LESS government. NOT more taxes.

I keep saying this:
There is NO free lunch (if a government agency provides it, someone is paying for it in taxes.
ALL politicians are corrupt and crooked, no exceptions.
The government that governs least, governs best.

Now go ahead and tell me that we need more government to watch Wall Street... There is an answer for that one also, but it will be another thread.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Have you met tinker bell in while LA LA land.

Hey Frozen,

How about you refute each of the items in Robo's post with facts? Can you do that?

[frozensolid]

Hey Frozen,

How about you refute each of the items in Robo's post with facts? Can you do that?

Why he don't like facts. And BTW if robos boss could increase productivity he would have already, and pocketed the money.

[RoBoTeq]

Lets say his boss is gonna pay 7% more in tax. Then that $140000.00 means he is making about 2 or three mill a year now (depending on deductions). So because he will now pay more taxes he is going to cut 2 employees. Cutting those two employees out of spite is going to cut his ability to sell.

Lets say he has 10% net this would mean he sells 20-30 mill a year. so each employee means about 400-600 thou a year in sales. So rather than take less income he is going to cut his throat and lay off people so he can sell less which will reduce his income more. I don't get it.
I don't know what the hell you are talking about, but the tax burdens on companies is going to increase the cost of doing business....period.

You are treating the company I work for as if it's total amount of business is the owners personal income, in which case we are talking more like 48 mil.

[duckman373]

Damn, Robo. 1 mil per employee? I don't think your boss can get anymore productivity than that. It makes me laugh that people think that because someone makes x amount of dollars, they won't miss a couple hundred thou in taxes. These people don't get rich by throwing away money, and 90% of them earn every penny.

[RoBoTeq]

Why he don't like facts. And BTW if robos boss could increase productivity he would have already, and pocketed the money.
What part of continued growth over the past five years alludes you? I was brought into the company to increase growth in two counties where we have had no previous dealings. I won't be an asset until I achieve developing these counties, which is not the easiest thing to do in this down economy and in counties where HVAC supply houses are on nearly every block. It is obvious that my boss is reinvestingh profits in order to grow the business which means more people are hired...like me.

I truly hope you are not this foolish running your own business. Do you just pocket new growth profits?

[frozensolid]

No I am treating about 10% of that as income, if what you say is true it's more like 7%. The numbers still work.

The truth is if robo's company faces lay-off and that is likely. It is because the worlds economy is tanking and sales may well decrease. And think Obama is not even pres. yet..

Oh I get it, the fear that Obama may become president has struck terror and fear in the economic powers of the world. That must be it.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Why he don't like facts. And BTW if robos boss could increase productivity he would have already, and pocketed the money.

I do not mean to be difficult, but my request was to item by item discuss/refute each of the points Robo made in that long post.

Only two things will happen at this point: Either the points will be addressed one by one, or a dodge will happen...

If the first, we will have material to debate. If the latter, then an admission by default will have been made that the person in question does not have the information to refute the claims made.

So either we go to the next level, or by default we learn that the material in question probably is the truth.

[frozensolid]

I do not mean to be difficult, but my request was to item by item discuss/refute each of the points Robo made in that long post.

Only two things will happen at this point: Either the points will be addressed one by one, or a dodge will happen...

If the first, we will have material to debate. If the latter, then an admission by default will have been made that the person in question does not have the information to refute the claims made.

So either we go to the next level, or by default we learn that the material in question probably is the truth.

I don't need to do that. You guys ain't gonna believe it anyway. I don't care what you guys want to believe. Hey, you can believe in the easter bunny for all care. I am just offering my point of view.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I don't need to do that. You guys ain't gonna believe it anyway. I don't care what you guys want to believe. Hey, you can believe in the easter bunny for all care. I am just offering my point of view.

I am not trying to bust your chops Frozen... but sometimes we need to back up our opinions with factual material (or at least examples proven by historical data).

I have been 'working' the financial markets for over a decade. There is more BS out there than 10 presidential elections put together. And guess who looses $$$ if they do not sort through the stuff... ;)

[ga-hvac-tech]

Time to call it a night... :)

[hvacker]

I work for a company of about 50 people. The owner of the company said he and his accountants figured up the increase in the company taxes to be about a $140k increase. That is about the cost of two employees. So, to keep the same amount of profit that has allowed this company to grow at a consistant rate over the past five years, two employees will need to be eliminated.

That will certainly be "change" for those two employees:rolleyes:

I think some confusion comes from people mixing up business income and personal income.
I know if a person hasn't been in business or has their taxes done by someone else there is not much to go on.
Until the changes in the tax code are actually written your boss's accountants really have no way to know anything relevant regardless how smart they might be. Tax codes are strange terra incognita.
I do know now that FICA/Medicare contributions are capped at 92 or 93 thousand. If they were raised to 250 large it would make a huge difference in those funds.
Now an employed person pays 1/2. That's 7.85% of adjusted gross. If self employed it's 15.7%.
So a person making an adjusted gross income of 250000 now would pay only on 93000. Working for someone he'd pay 7300.50. For himself 14601. This would raise to 14601 or 39250 respectivly.
I don't know if BO means for tax raises it's for FICA/Medicare or something else. It really doesn't matter it's money out.
What makes me wonder is the same income max was indicated at the same 250000. If BO was meaning FICA/Medicare maxes this would not be a bad thing for all of you that have included this benefit into your retirement plans.

I do know that today the only people that can afford more taxes are on the top of the food chain. I say " Give um he!! Harry" They have been the hands down benefits is this economic cluster fu** for a whole lot of years.
Talk about not willing to share??

[tostaos]

Your wasting your breath. Around here they either modify or ignore the facts to fit their thinking.

I have already stated I don't agree with either party. I also said they both lie. But because I don't agree with their party I am an ignorant democrat, commie, liberal.

Actually I am an American Independent who can actually think for myself. I don't need a party to tell me what to believe, I go with those little things called facts. How dare I. :)
I know, they through around Karl Marx, Socialist, Liberal and think of a Republican as a moderate and Democrats as left. I have news for you all, in the big picture (whole world, not only in the largest banana republic) Democrats are moderate to right and Republicans are right from there on right up to the far right.
What really baffles me is that so many in our line of work can not see a bit further than their share of taxes they have to pay.
I will not vote, I am not American and I don't want to be an American, can not identify myself with most that happens in this country. Really the only time was 9/11 when i felt as an American. I am very pessimistic about America, even so I would never write America off. I remember the bleak outlook in 1980 and the United States had the best decades after that. But to turn around, there has to be big, big changes and they will never come with the ideologies of republican administrations.

[glennac]

I know, they through around Karl Marx, Socialist, Liberal and think of a Republican as a moderate and Democrats as left. I have news for you all, in the big picture (whole world, not only in the largest banana republic) Democrats are moderate to right and Republicans are right from there on right up to the far right.
What really baffles me is that so many in our line of work can not see a bit further than their share of taxes they have to pay.
I will not vote, I am not American and I don't want to be an American, can not identify myself with most that happens in this country. Really the only time was 9/11 when i felt as an American. I am very pessimistic about America, even so I would never write America off. I remember the bleak outlook in 1980 and the United States had the best decades after that. But to turn around, there has to be big, big changes and they will never come with the ideologies of republican administrations.

Perhaps a socialist/communist administration would be more to your liking.:confused:

[frozensolid]

Perhaps a socialist/communist administration would be more to your liking.:confused:

Glenn you remind me of that guy in a movie I saw once. I think it was Dr. Strangelove. The guy who thought fluoridation of the water was a commie plot.

You need to wrap yourself in a cocoon to protect you from the commies, and us from you. :)

[glennac]

Glenn you remind me of that guy in a movie I saw once. I think it was Dr. Strangelove. The guy who though fluoridation of the water was a commie plot.

You need to rap yourself in a cocoon to protect you from the commies, and us from you. :)

Perhaps you like the commies and it shows and therefore I am an enemy in your eyes. Well the only thing commies and fellow democrats like your self have to fear from me is my 1st Amendment right which I know you all want to take away through your "fairness doctrine".

After that you will go for our guns and make law biding citizens criminals if they don't turn in their guns and trust the commies not to destroy them right away. Go ahead and throw mud on conservatives who don't break the laws of the Constitution and calls us names. You have the 1st Amendment right also but lies are the bread and butter of your party and we all know that.:)

[frozensolid]

Perhaps you like the commies and it shows and therefore I am an enemy in your eyes. Well the only thing commies and fellow democrats like your self have to fear from me is my 1st Amendment right which I know you all want to take away through your "fairness doctrine".

After that you will go for our guns and make law biding citizens criminals if they don't turn in their guns and trust the commies not to destroy them right away. Go ahead and throw mud on conservatives who don't break the laws of the Constitution and calls us names. You have the 1st Amendment right also but lies are the bread and butter of your party and we all know that.:)


Glenn, I love the Constitution, I love my right to own guns, and I love freedom of speech. You want to spend your life seeing commies behind every tree, more power to ya bro.

BTW It was your boy GW who has time after time, spit on the Constitution when it did not serve his needs. So you are barking up the wrong tree Superdude.

Maybe you can go get one of your boys to wiretap me without a warrant to prove I am a commie.

[glennac]

Maybe you can go get one of your boys to wiretap me without a warrant to prove I am a commie.

I hardly believe that would be necessary.:D:)

[RoBoTeq]

No I am treating about 10% of that as income, if what you say is true it's more like 7%. The numbers still work.

The truth is if robo's company faces lay-off and that is likely. It is because the worlds economy is tanking and sales may well decrease. And think Obama is not even pres. yet..

Oh I get it, the fear that Obama may become president has struck terror and fear in the economic powers of the world. That must be it.
The company I work for has had continued growth despite the economy. The growth has been due to expansion, which is what companies are supposed to do.

With the continued growth and the continued profit rate, my company will need to eliminate personnel due to Obama's proposed tax plan. There is nothing complicated about this. It will cost more to do the same amount of business at the same rate of growth and profit margin, so something has to go. If you decrease the profit margin, you decrease the growth.

Why are you making up scenarios that don't exist just to make it sound like you know what you are talking about?

[RoBoTeq]

Glenn you remind me of that guy in a movie I saw once. I think it was Dr. Strangelove. The guy who thought fluoridation of the water was a commie plot.

You need to wrap yourself in a cocoon to protect you from the commies, and us from you. :)
Dr. Strangelove was the main character in an anti-war movie that was subtitled "How I learned to love the bomb", and even though not in line with my political thinking, was a great movie.

Flouridation of our water is a Commie plot to make us more passive;)

Americans who believe in the True freedom of choice that God has given us do not wrap themselves in cocoons for protection, we confront the evil forces that insist on taking away our ability to choose and crush them:cool:

[RoBoTeq]

Glenn, I love the Constitution, I love my right to own guns, and I love freedom of speech. You want to spend your life seeing commies behind every tree, more power to ya bro.

BTW It was your boy GW who has time after time, spit on the Constitution when it did not serve his needs. So you are barking up the wrong tree Superdude.

Maybe you can go get one of your boys to wiretap me without a warrant to prove I am a commie.
While I agree with you that we have no good choice for president, there is no way a person who believes "we all" should have the right to own guns and "we all" should be afforded the right of freedom of speech could ever vote for Barack Hussein Obama.

I notice that you state that you love "your" right to own guns, but do you believe in the same rights for all American citizens?

[frozensolid]

Stupid question robo, but from you I have come to expect that. Liberty and justice for all, not just all Reps.

But I must be lying Because as a glennac declared socialist commie, I must just want guns to keep all you Patriots down.. Right.

You would not know Liberty even if it bought you a bottle of your high end tequila.

BTW My Constitutional Liberties allow me the privilege of voting for whom ever I choose. Not whom ever you choose for me.

[hearthman]

I know, they through around Karl Marx, Socialist, Liberal and think of a Republican as a moderate and Democrats as left. I have news for you all, in the big picture (whole world, not only in the largest banana republic) Democrats are moderate to right and Republicans are right from there on right up to the far right.
What really baffles me is that so many in our line of work can not see a bit further than their share of taxes they have to pay.
I will not vote, I am not American and I don't want to be an American, can not identify myself with most that happens in this country. Really the only time was 9/11 when i felt as an American. I am very pessimistic about America, even so I would never write America off. I remember the bleak outlook in 1980 and the United States had the best decades after that. But to turn around, there has to be big, big changes and they will never come with the ideologies of republican administrations.


Sorry to burst your bubble but our Democrats have moved over further to the Left so they are now firmly in the land of Marx as evidenced this week by statements from Obo and Biden confirming they want to transfer wealth from productive people to unproductive people. Eventually, the economy will collapse as it has done in every communist and socialistic state.
America apparently has become a nation of O.J. jurors. They believe what the press wants them to believe and lack the power of discernment.

You bust on Republicans then reference the 1980s. When Reagan took over from Carter, the Dow was around 735 and we were headed into a deep recession where long term money hit double digits. Reagan and the Republican controlled congress got tax breaks to stimulate the economy and turn tax users into tax payers. The result? The Dow not only broke 1000 but has since climbed to over 10K. The market grew more than 10 fold in 20 yrs while in the first century, it barely broke 1000. When you stimulate companies, however small, with tax breaks, they expand business, which hires not only employees for them but all the ancillary services related to theirs from the kid on a bike delivering messages to the hotdog stand vendor on the curb. When more workers make more pay, they pay more total taxes, even though their marginal rates remain tolerable. The result is more total tax revenue to help those who really need help.

You pay people to sit on their butts and reward them for being of a different skin color and you get The Great Society of LBJ. We now know that one went over like a pregnant pole vaulter and has come close to wrecking this country. Instead of family and religious values we have values derived from the Internet, pop TV and music that celebrates cultures and lifestyles that are self centered, materialistic and aggressive towards others.

Mark my words: if these socialists get their way, we're going to see drive through abortion clinics in all schools including retroactive abortions, socialized medicine, which will greatly reduce the quality of care as it has whereever it has been instituted, much more civil unrest with race and class warefare, suppression of unpopular free speech from the Right, the loss of the American dream, and world strife as every nut in the world sees his opportunity to make a move on their enemies because as Biden promises, it WILL happen, Obama will make stupid moves you won't like and it will suck us into multiple global messes.

Enjoy your standard of living and freedoms now because they are going out the window in a few weeks. Everything McCain and 10s of thousands of vets gave their lives for to fight against is coming here and these jackasses are leading the victory parade. These Dems welcoming these socialists remind me of that movie 4th of July with the hippies on the roof welcoming the invaders. Remember what happened to them? First to get it. Bunch of dumb*ss hippies all over again. Good thing you don't eat meat scooter--there won't be any around in the soup lines...

[classical]

Sorry to burst your bubble but our Democrats have moved over further to the Left so they are now firmly in the land of Marx as evidenced this week by statements from Obo and Biden confirming they want to transfer wealth from productive people to unproductive people. Eventually, the economy will collapse as it has done in every communist and socialistic state.
America apparently has become a nation of O.J. jurors. They believe what the press wants them to believe and lack the power of discernment.

You bust on Republicans then reference the 1980s. When Reagan took over from Carter, the Dow was around 735 and we were headed into a deep recession where long term money hit double digits. Reagan and the Republican controlled congress got tax breaks to stimulate the economy and turn tax users into tax payers. The result? The Dow not only broke 1000 but has since climbed to over 10K. The market grew more than 10 fold in 20 yrs while in the first century, it barely broke 1000. When you stimulate companies, however small, with tax breaks, they expand business, which hires not only employees for them but all the ancillary services related to theirs from the kid on a bike delivering messages to the hotdog stand vendor on the curb. When more workers make more pay, they pay more total taxes, even though their marginal rates remain tolerable. The result is more total tax revenue to help those who really need help.

You pay people to sit on their butts and reward them for being of a different skin color and you get The Great Society of LBJ. We now know that one went over like a pregnant pole vaulter and has come close to wrecking this country. Instead of family and religious values we have values derived from the Internet, pop TV and music that celebrates cultures and lifestyles that are self centered, materialistic and aggressive towards others.

Mark my words: if these socialists get their way, we're going to see drive through abortion clinics in all schools including retroactive abortions, socialized medicine, which will greatly reduce the quality of care as it has whereever it has been instituted, much more civil unrest with race and class warefare, suppression of unpopular free speech from the Right, the loss of the American dream, and world strife as every nut in the world sees his opportunity to make a move on their enemies because as Biden promises, it WILL happen, Obama will make stupid moves you won't like and it will suck us into multiple global messes.

Enjoy your standard of living and freedoms now because they are going out the window in a few weeks. Everything McCain and 10s of thousands of vets gave their lives for to fight against is coming here and these jackasses are leading the victory parade. These Dems welcoming these socialists remind me of that movie 4th of July with the hippies on the roof welcoming the invaders. Remember what happened to them? First to get it. Bunch of dumb*ss hippies all over again. Good thing you don't eat meat scooter--there won't be any around in the soup lines...

Very well stated; the liberals on this forum will not directly answer you and will not have relevant rebuttal.

[glennac]

Very well stated; the liberals on this forum will not directly answer you and will not have relevant rebuttal.


Amen to that. Great piece there hearth. Yes you liberals get used to being accused of loving the communists because that is what the party stands for now. I would not have said this 20 years ago but you all have been moving steady in that direction and now are firmly in the Marxist camp with Obama as your dictator.

[BigJon3475]

US per capita of the GDP: $46,000

Government currently requires about $48,000 per capita :eek:

Seriously though If you split the entire GDP of the US and split it evenly you would have $46,000. The government needs half that to run so you would be left with: $23,000 no matter what you do. You would have your health care and social services...etc. But you prices of goods will not come down because of that. You would create an entire working class poor. I think a majority of America probably has more than that in debt as we speak.

What does this mean? Any move towards that is a move towards an entire class of working poor. The only way to change it is have less people per the GDP or make more money.

But let's not forget....when we get to that point the government determines how much it needs and in that type of environment it can take it at will.


This argument is absurd though because you know our government wouldn't give us the whole GDP.....

[classical]

Amen to that. Great piece there hearth. Yes you liberals get used to being accused of loving the communists because that is what the party stands for now. I would not have said this 20 years ago but you all have been moving steady in that direction and now are firmly in the Marxist camp with Obama as your dictator.

The problem Glenn is the Republican party is not much more to the right than the Democrats. The leadership of the Democrats are much farther left than the majority.

[acmanko]

I found this by looking for some definitions


The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. TOP

2. Disdain for
the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. TOP

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats
as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. TOP

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. TOP

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. TOP

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. TOP

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. TOP

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. TOP

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. TOP

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. TOP

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. TOP

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. TOP

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. TOP

________________________________

Commentary:
An interesting note to end this article: As of January 2004, the United States fulfills all fourteen points of fascism and all seven warning signs are present. But we're not alone. Israel also fulfills all fourteen points and all seven warning signs as well. Welcome to the new republic, redefined, revised and spun. It is not too late to reverse this in either country, but it will be soon. The first step is realizing it. The second step is getting involved. As the propaganda slogan disguising our current war goes, "Freedom isn't free." But our war for freedom isn't abroad; it's here at home.

Reader Feedback

[glennac]

I found this by looking for some definitions


Commentary:
An interesting note to end this article: As of January 2004, the United States fulfills all fourteen points of fascism and all seven warning signs are present. But we're not alone. Israel also fulfills all fourteen points and all seven warning signs as well. Welcome to the new republic, redefined, revised and spun. It is not too late to reverse this in either country, but it will be soon. The first step is realizing it. The second step is getting involved. As the propaganda slogan disguising our current war goes, "Freedom isn't free." But our war for freedom isn't abroad; it's here at home.Reader Feedback

Ace that is pure BS and lies. The Democrats fill a lot more of those points especially the ones on denying our rights, freedom and control of the press. They have a complete monopoly on that all the way.

You need to go back to rehab and ask for gray matter injection in your head you are in dire need of it if you think the Democrats don't fill the bill a lot more than real Americans do that is conservatives not the socialist, gays, minorities, communists, tree huggers, welfare class, perverts, criminals, etc. Yeah the dems are real diverse all right.

[tostaos]

Sorry, I didn't know that so many on this ARP forum have not all their marbles. I guess it must be the refrigerant. LOL

[RoBoTeq]

Stupid question robo, but from you I have come to expect that. Liberty and justice for all, not just all Reps.

But I must be lying Because as a glennac declared socialist commie, I must just want guns to keep all you Patriots down.. Right.

You would not know Liberty even if it bought you a bottle of your high end tequila.

BTW My Constitutional Liberties allow me the privilege of voting for whom ever I choose. Not whom ever you choose for me.
I'm still trying to figure out why you are spazing out the way you are. Damn; you must have heard that paranoi is the big destroyer;)

From the standard, usually liberal leaning media, I have heard many times how elitist liberals who fight against gun ownership themselves either own guns or hire gun toting security to keep them safe. You never hear of a conservative saying that whiney liberals should not have guns. So which type of person is the hypocrite here?

I've never said I believed you were lying. Mistaken? Absolutley. Why are you making my beliefs of you so much worse then they are?

What in the world have I ever stated that would make you attack my values of liberty? You are really getting weirded out here frozen.

As for voting; I have only expressed my opinion of the candidates and why I would not ever be able to vote for Obama. I have never attempted to tell anyone who to vote for. If you want to vote for a Socialist bigot, that is your right. Again; paranoia really is taking you for a strange ride.

[RoBoTeq]

I found this by looking for some definitions


The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:


Really? You want to supply proof that Dr. Lawrence Britt actually exists, let alone where he allegedly wrote such an article? This is manufactured leftist drivel.

Just one example of how ridiculous this is, many Fascists have been quite enamored with the arts.

[frozensolid]

Sorry, I didn't know that so many on this ARP forum have not all their marbles. I guess it must be the refrigerant. LOL


I know just what you mean, people see commies everywhere. I think the drive thru abortion clinics in every school was a little over the top too.

[frozensolid]

Robo no paranoia here, and I don't think I am spazzing as you say either. But think as you wish.

I don't think I have ever heard of someone saying only liberals should have guns either.

I have seen you belittle people for choosing a candidate that was not in line with your thinking.

You make your own beliefs what they are.

[Snapperhead]

Robo no paranoia here, and I don't think I am spazzing as you say either. But think as you wish.

I don't think I have ever heard of someone saying only liberals should have guns either.

I have seen you belittle people for choosing a candidate that was not in line with your thinking.

You make your own beliefs what they are.I cant speak for Robo , but I always heard - if it walks like a duck , quacks like a duck .... well its probly a duck

[RoBoTeq]

I just don't understand frozen's going off on people on this thread with no support for why he is getting so upset with those of us who disagree with his liberal notions. I personally would never advocate an attempt to stop any form of thought although I do think that ultra extreme liberal and conservative thinking blinds us and causes undo issues.

I really would like to have specific answers to my specific questions though. It does no one any good to avoid questions by making up very wrong profiles of others. I am in no way anywhere near what frozen is trying to depict me as. Hell, the ultra conservatives here are calling me a Commie liberal and the Ultra libbies are calling me a Fascist conservative. I must be somewhere in the extreme middle:rolleyes:

[ga-hvac-tech]

I just don't understand frozen's going off on people on this thread with no support for why he is getting so upset with those of us who disagree with his liberal notions. I personally would never advocate an attempt to stop any form of thought although I do think that ultra extreme liberal and conservative thinking blinds us and causes undo issues.

I really would like to have specific answers to my specific questions though. It does no one any good to avoid questions by making up very wrong profiles of others. I am in no way anywhere near what frozen is trying to depict me as. Hell, the ultra conservatives here are calling me a Commie liberal and the Ultra libbies are calling me a Fascist conservative. I must be somewhere in the extreme middle:rolleyes:

Just extreme sounds about right to me... :D

I agree, it is kinda strange when someone goes off and starts name calling (although I probably have been guilty of that one myself).

I think that sometimes a person may feel trapped when a specific question is placed out there and an answer is more or less demanded... One feels like they are about to loose face, so they start dodging.

Truth be known; nobody gives a hoot, and the discussion will go a different direction in a few minutes.

This is the problem at ARP; one has to have thick skin to hang out here... thin skinned folks get their buttons punched and react... the result seems to worry TPTB... Oh well...

[frozensolid]

I just don't understand frozen's going off on people on this thread with no support for why he is getting so upset with those of us who disagree with his liberal notions. I personally would never advocate an attempt to stop any form of thought although I do think that ultra extreme liberal and conservative thinking blinds us and causes undo issues.

I really would like to have specific answers to my specific questions though. It does no one any good to avoid questions by making up very wrong profiles of others. I am in no way anywhere near what frozen is trying to depict me as. Hell, the ultra conservatives here are calling me a Commie liberal and the Ultra libbies are calling me a Fascist conservative. I must be somewhere in the extreme middle:rolleyes:

I am not upset at all robo. BTW I have backed up most of what I say... but with your right wing blinders on I under stand how it can be hard for you to see.

You all like talking about responsibility.. you just don't like taking any. And yes I knew returning to ARP for a short period was an exercise in futility. I knew glenn would find me a commie, because everyone left of insanity is a commie to him. I also knew you would ignore facts and make up your own reality. That is your style.

I did not know that you guys now believed the Dems wanted to add drive thru abortion clinics in our schools. I suspected, but did not know you all were so partisan that you would sacrifice your nation to your party. Then again I did not know you believed all who disagreed with you were Un-American. See, so I did learn a few things new about you all.

The Facts: I am an Independent who sides with neither party.

I do believe the most Un-American thing any American can do, is to call another American, Un-American. Just because you don't agree with what they say.

I hope you all can find it in yourselves to heal the hate, bigotry, and racism you harbor towards your fellow countrymen.

To the others here that see the things I see in some ARP posters. God bless you in your struggle.

[mrs reb77]

I think if I hear one more person tell us we have to put aside our 'racism' I will personally do some bodily harm.

I DON'T HAVE ANY RACISM!

There. I feel better. I can't even read the majority of this thread--just because someone doesn't have the same view as you doesn't mean they are wrong. They are different. Yes, they may BE wrong but it isn't proven by who can be the bigger butt head.

And just because someone won't vote for a candidate doesn't make them racist, gender biased or any of the other buzz words. I wouldn't have, couldn't have, never in a million lifetimes voted for Hillary Clinton either. I don't agree with the platform of that party. I don't totally agree with the platform of the other party either but I certainly have more in common with their vision of the United States of America I want to live in than what the other platform promises.


As Howard Dean once so eloquently stated: "ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH"

[acmanko]

I think if I hear one more person tell us we have to put aside our 'racism' I will personally do some bodily harm.

I DON'T HAVE ANY RACISM!

There. I feel better. I can't even read the majority of this thread--just because someone doesn't have the same view as you doesn't mean they are wrong. They are different. Yes, they may BE wrong but it isn't proven by who can be the bigger butt head.

And just because someone won't vote for a candidate doesn't make them racist, gender biased or any of the other buzz words. I wouldn't have, couldn't have, never in a million lifetimes voted for Hillary Clinton either. I don't agree with the platform of that party. I don't totally agree with the platform of the other party either but I certainly have more in common with their vision of the United States of America I want to live in than what the other platform promises.


As Howard Dean once so eloquently stated: "ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH"
someone seems to be in denial. see a counselor before its to late:D

[glennac]

I knew glenn would find me a commie, because everyone left of insanity is a commie to him. II do believe the most Un-American thing any American can do, is to call another American, Un-American. Just because you don't agree with what they say.


First thing frozen. I have never called you a commie. I have called the current leader of the Democratic Party and a lot of the others at the top commies in their beliefs and all of the leaders are socialists. You have said this at least twice now and at first I though it was funny but you keep repeating the lie and then maybe someone will actually believe you so I just want to clear the record and you go find one post where I said you were a commie. Nuff said.

Now I think it is clear that those who want a socialist government are not real Americans. Not what our fore fathers were. There is noting in the Constitution supporting the tyranny, other than the commie Supremes shoving it down our throats along with the liberals and socialists in Congress (read mostly Democrats). Now that's how I feel about it. If you can show me where I am wrong have at it but please don't make any more stories up about me. I never do that about anyone you included. Thank you very much.:)

[mrs reb77]

someone seems to be in denial. see a counselor before its to late:D

Well, you'd be the one to know all about that, eh David? :eek:

[acmanko]

Well, you'd be the one to know all about that, eh David? :eek:exactly, now I'm sharing what I've learned.:)

[mrs reb77]

That's very good of you! Hopefully you're taking that to your 'Democrats Anonymous 59 step' meetings too. After all, they need all the help they can get. ;)

[tostaos]

I have called the current leader of the Democratic Party and a lot of the others at the top commies in their beliefs and all of the leaders are socialists.
Now I think it is clear that those who want a socialist government are not real Americans. Not what our fore fathers were. There is noting in the Constitution supporting the tyranny, other than the commie Supremes shoving it down our throats along with the liberals and socialists in Congress (read mostly Democrats).
completely clueless. There is a bigger jump between the democratic politics and Fidel's than between the republican and the fascists. The fathers of the Constitution never thought of nutcases like you or a plutocracy instead of a democracy 200 years later.

[RoBoTeq]

I am not upset at all robo. BTW I have backed up most of what I say... but with your right wing blinders on I under stand how it can be hard for you to see.

You all like talking about responsibility.. you just don't like taking any. And yes I knew returning to ARP for a short period was an exercise in futility. I knew glenn would find me a commie, because everyone left of insanity is a commie to him. I also knew you would ignore facts and make up your own reality. That is your style.

I did not know that you guys now believed the Dems wanted to add drive thru abortion clinics in our schools. I suspected, but did not know you all were so partisan that you would sacrifice your nation to your party. Then again I did not know you believed all who disagreed with you were Un-American. See, so I did learn a few things new about you all.

The Facts: I am an Independent who sides with neither party.

I do believe the most Un-American thing any American can do, is to call another American, Un-American. Just because you don't agree with what they say.

I hope you all can find it in yourselves to heal the hate, bigotry, and racism you harbor towards your fellow countrymen.

To the others here that see the things I see in some ARP posters. God bless you in your struggle.
Just so everyone else knows all of the parameters here, frozen and I have met and spent some time in one on one conversation a few times over the years. I just don't want anyone thinking there is any real personal issues here because I highly respect frozen even when I don't agree with his politics.

No matter how much I disagree with frozens politics, I would never truthfully consider him any less an American patriot then myself. I would trust frozen in business and on any social level just before entering a voting booth and immediately after leaving one. Just wanted to get that out in the open. Carry on with the battle;)

[RoBoTeq]

completely clueless. There is a bigger jump between the democratic politics and Fidel's than between the republican and the fascists. The fathers of the Constitution never thought of nutcases like you or a plutocracy instead of a democracy 200 years later.
Having had exposure, albeit very limited, to a Communist country, I must completely disagree.

Communist regimes attempt to portray the exact same idealism that our liberal leaders, mostly Democrats, put forth. In Cuba, the concept is that every Cuban is taken care of by the government equally. In reality, the amount of Capitalism each Cuban is willing to be active in dictates the degree of a Cuban citizens quality of life.

Capitalism? In Cuba? YES! Capitalism thrives in Communist countries just as much as it does in Republics, Democracies and Monarchy's. The difference is that Capitalism in Communist countries is illegal and therefore very useful to the government to use as a tool to better rule over the people. This is what the Democratic Party in the U.S. is pushing for.

Over the years, mostly over the past 75 years, Americans have become less and less free due to more and more laws. Most of these laws are social laws that are pushed into reality under the pretext of "protecting" us....just like Communist laws are intended. Are we that childlike that the majority of us need to be protected by the elite few? I don't believe so, but Fidel Castro does.

[acmanko]

and here I always looked at it as REpublicans wanting to be in control so they could trickle down wealth as they see fit, with their local party leaders benifiting the most. I never realized you could be so wrong.

[glennac]

completely clueless. There is a bigger jump between the democratic politics and Fidel's than between the republican and the fascists. The fathers of the Constitution never thought of nutcases like you or a plutocracy instead of a democracy 200 years later.

Well you love the socialist commie way of life and yes not being a true American who believes in freedom and independence. So you can take your personal attack comments and shove it.:)

[bootlen]

Well I consider you a complete idiot and a fool for loving the socialist commie way of life and yes not being a true American who believes in freedom and independence. So you can take your personal attack comments and shove it.:)

Watch the name-calling, Glenn. Please rephrase.

ARPC

[RoBoTeq]

and here I always looked at it as REpublicans wanting to be in control so they could trickle down wealth as they see fit, with their local party leaders benifiting the most. I never realized you could be so wrong.
Some more radical Republicans do want that sort of control. For the most part though, current Republicans just want less government influence on our daily lives.

[RoBoTeq]

Watch the name-calling, Glenn. Please rephrase.

ARPC
It's ok, he used a smiley face:D

[glennac]

Watch the name-calling, Glenn. Please rephrase.

ARPC

Ok boots I have now, I did not start the name calling and if I may say so the one who started it should be repremanded first. But I guess "tost" gets a pass when he said that "The fathers of the Constitution never thought of nutcases like you". I would like an answer to that. If we are going to play by the rules and I do play by the rules but his statement has stood for about 37 hours without a correction, edit or repremind.

I thought that would have been long enough for something to have been done. He also did that with out the benifit of a :). That was done as a direct attack on me and my character. I finally got tired of seeing that on the forum without any thing done so I replied but I did not draw "First Blood". I got corrected in less than a hour. Thank you very much.:)

[bootlen]

completely clueless. There is a bigger jump between the democratic politics and Fidel's than between the republican and the fascists. The fathers of the Constitution never thought of nutcases like you or a plutocracy instead of a democracy 200 years later.

Name-calling is not permitted here, tost. Edit your post taking out "nutcase".

ARPC

[bootlen]

Ok boots I have now, I did not start the name calling and if I may say so the one who started it should be repremanded first. But I guess "tost" gets a pass when he said that "The fathers of the Constitution never thought of nutcases like you". I would like an answer to that. If we are going to play by the rules and I do play by the rules but his statement has stood for about 37 hours without a correction, edit or repremind.

I thought that would have been long enough for something to have been done. He also did that with out the benifit of a :). That was done as a direct attack on me and my character. I finally got tired of seeing that on the forum without any thing done so I replied but I did not draw "First Blood". I got corrected in less than a hour. Thank you very much.:)

Missed that.

Recommendation: Instead of striking back, remind the offender of his/her offense. If it is not corrected, then report it via email, per ARP Rules. This will keep you out of jeopardy. It also makes this a self-policing forum which is much better than an ARPC policed forum.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

ARPC

[acmanko]

i'm thinking of applying for watchdog status. I'll keep us on the straight and narrow. I'll trickle the punishment up, instead of down. we need change. change for the better. change for the sake of change. vote again, and again till you elect the chosen

[bootlen]

LOL! I think that's the plan.

[glennac]

Missed that.

Recommendation: Instead of striking back, remind the offender of his/her offense. If it is not corrected, then report it via email, per ARP Rules. This will keep you out of jeopardy. It also makes this a self-policing forum which is much better than an ARPC policed forum.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

ARPC

Ok boots but that makes one sound like a whimp. I will give it a shot again. I have tried pointing out in the past when this was happened to me but nothing got changed or done until I shot a round into the offenders rear. I then get accused of being a crybaby and a few more names called at me and then the offender gets nothing.

I hope it will be different in the future. This time I will ask the offender to obey by the rules remove the names and "make an apology for the attack". I think that should also be required. I have in the past when I got a little out of line but that's the difference between a man and a coward who throws rocks in the dark. Nuff said.

[acmanko]

Ok boots but that makes one sound like a whimp. I will give it a shot again. I have tried pointing out in the past when this was happened to me but nothing got changed or done until I shot a round into the offenders rear. I then get accused of being a crybaby and a few more names called at me and then the offender gets nothing.

I hope it will be different in the future. This time I will ask the offender to obey by the rules remove the names and "make an apology for the attack". I think that should also be required. I have in the past when I got a little out of line but that's the difference between a man and a coward who throws rocks in the dark. Nuff said.suck it up a be a man, your tears are ruining my keyboard.:D:D:D

[glennac]

suck it up a be a man, your tears are ruining my keyboard.:D:D:D

Ah go shove it ace.:):) I think you might even vote for a commie but I hope not.:)

I already voted without spending any time in line. Just went on the net and downloaded an application for absentee ballot and faxed it in. Put down another address where I get my mail and it came in two days. Filled it out in 10 min and stuck it in the mail box. How nice. You see you don't have to be a minority all the time to take advantage of things.:D

[bootlen]

Ok boots but that makes one sound like a whimp.

No. It makes on sound like a diplomat.

Oh, and unless the offender apologizes, it just reveals who the real wimp is.

[whec720]

I hear Joe is considering running for Congress. Do you need a plumbers license to do that?:D:D:D

[Mr Bill]

I'll trickle the punishment up, instead of down. we need change. change for the better. change for the sake of change. vote again, and again till you elect the chosen

"I'll keep my freedom, my guns, and my money,you can keep THE CHANGE". :D :eek: :o :cool: :o :)

Vote for McCain/Palin

[bootlen]

I hear Joe is considering running for Congress. Do you need a plumbers license to do that?:D:D:D

If you run on the Dem ticket, you need only minimum qualifications.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Missed that.

Recommendation: Instead of striking back, remind the offender of his/her offense. If it is not corrected, then report it via email, per ARP Rules. This will keep you out of jeopardy. It also makes this a self-policing forum which is much better than an ARPC policed forum.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

ARPC

This is, IMO, one of the finest ARPC posts I have read on this forum!!!

It started out with an honest comment that did not reflect 'top-down' authority...

Then a suggestion in how to get along with folks; one that works as long as folks remember that personal pride is not the issue in debate.

In the same paragraph, a solution is given if a problem persists...

And the idea of self policing is suggested, which I think is the best way anyway... if we all debate with a reasonable amount of respect, there will be minimal issues to deal with.

And of course a 'thank you' at the end!

THX Bootsie, this was/is a fine post!

[tostaos]

Name-calling is not permitted here, tost. Edit your post taking out "nutcase".

ARPC
Sorry glennac, I did not meant to single you out. I meant all this radical fascist republicans and I am happy to change the line.
Would please somebody tell me how I can do that? I can not find an edit button.

In no way I am a socialist or anything left from that. I am a true liberal. For the challenged, who don't know what liberalism is, I have a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

[k-fridge]

I hear Joe is considering running for Congress. Do you need a plumbers license to do that?:D:D:D
No, just the media's support.


Worked for Obama

[whec720]

No, just the media's support.


Worked for Obama

Yeah, for the media, it is a Pyrrhic victory. They have made a mockery of themselves covering this election. Never again, will they have the public's trust. They are pathetic tools for the Soros crowd.
Sad.:(

[bootlen]

Sorry glennac, I did not meant to single you out. I meant all this radical fascist republicans and I am happy to change the line.
Would please somebody tell me how I can do that? I can not find an edit button.

In no way I am a socialist or anything left from that. I am a true liberal. For the challenged, who don't know what liberalism is, I have a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Thanks, tost. We appreciate that and I'm sure Glenn does.

ARPC

[glennac]

Thanks, tost. We appreciate that and I'm sure Glenn does.

ARPC

Amen to that. All is past and to qoute a line from a famous movie "tomorrow is another day" (GWTW).:)

[glennac]

Sorry glennac, I did not meant to single you out. I meant all this radical fascist republicans and I am happy to change the line.
Would please somebody tell me how I can do that? I can not find an edit button.

In no way I am a socialist or anything left from that. I am a true liberal. For the challenged, who don't know what liberalism is, I have a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Yeah and I climbed on your case too, we all have to watch the personal commentary and keep it more general as to parties and so forth.:) Hey about commenting on your avatar if you don't mind. I can't figure out what it is.:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Yeah, for the media, it is a Pyrrhic victory. They have made a mockery of themselves covering this election. Never again, will they have the public's trust. They are pathetic tools for the Soros crowd.
Sad.:(
Isn't it amazing how we are not hearing a peep out of Soros? He reneged on leaving the U.S. after President Bush was re-elected and we assumed he went off licking his wounds. I doubt that happened. More then likely Soros is a major string puller of the Obama puppet. Soros just might be pulling off what Howard Hughs failed at doing; buying a president of the United States.

As for the media; Obama's lead drops from 12 points to 5 points and we are supposed to believe it wasn't padding that got it to the 12 points?

[glennac]

i'm thinking of applying for watchdog status. I'll keep us on the straight and narrow. I'll trickle the punishment up, instead of down. we need change. change for the better. change for the sake of change. vote again, and again till you elect the chosen

Yeah ace, you can become the no 1 snitch. Put the ARPC members on your speed dial since you monitor and post on here 24/7 that is when your not doing other nefarious activities.:rolleyes::D:D:)

[whec720]

Isn't it amazing how we are not hearing a peep out of Soros? He reneged on leaving the U.S. after President Bush was re-elected and we assumed he went off licking his wounds. I doubt that happened. More then likely Soros is a major string puller of the Obama puppet. Soros just might be pulling off what Howard Hughs failed at doing; buying a president of the United States.

As for the media; Obama's lead drops from 12 points to 5 points and we are supposed to believe it wasn't padding that got it to the 12 points?

More like he, Soros, has bought the entire Democratic Party. Now the Republican cowards are like dogs, running around the the Dems, yelping in the hopes that they get a bone thrown their way.
Pathetic.:cool:

[acmanko]

I watched Soros give an interview on CNN and he said he stays out of politics, although he gives a lot of money ,he asks for no favors

[glennac]

.... although he gives a lot of money ,he asks for no favors

Why should he? He is a dedicated communist. A believer in the cause of Marx and Lenin.

[acmanko]

Why should he? He is a dedicated communist. A believer in the cause of Marx and Lenin. well glen, in around about way ,you too believe. its just you believe someone like you should be in controll:rolleyes:

[whec720]

I watched Soros give an interview on CNN and he said he stays out of politics, although he gives a lot of money ,he asks for no favors

Ah yeah......rrrrrrriiiiiigghhhhttt......:rolleyes:

Perhaps you believe that BHO won't raise your taxes either. He says he won't, so it must be true, right?:rolleyes:

Sheech..:rolleyes:

[acmanko]

Ah yeah......rrrrrrriiiiiigghhhhttt......:rolleyes:

Perhaps you believe that BHO won't raise your taxes either. He says he won't, so it must be true, right?:rolleyes:

Sheech..:rolleyes:I'm not planning on paying any taxes this year. I've been living off tax free savings

[Tweeder]

I dont think it much matters who gets elected we will all be in trouble.

[Mr Bill]

I dont think it much matters who gets elected we will all be in trouble.


Then Vote: :D

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/mrbillpro/neither.jpg

[tostaos]

Why should he? He is a dedicated communist. A believer in the cause of Marx and Lenin.Is everybody who is not a Republican a Communist now?:confused:

[whec720]

I'm not planning on paying any taxes this year. I've been living off tax free savings

BHO not in office yet for 2008 taxes, due April 09. He'll get ya April 10, if he wins. Reid + Pelosi + Obama = Increase in Taxes

[acmanko]

BHO not in office yet for 2008 taxes, due April 09. He'll get ya April 10, if he wins. Reid + Pelosi + Obama = Increase in Taxes
I don't care if the Fairy Godmother gets in, no income=no taxes

[whec720]

Is everybody who is not a Republican a Communist now?:confused:

Naw, there are Republican communists......You know....A-holes like Mayor Bloomberg.


Yet another supporter of the judicial dictatorship.

Your vote means nothing...liberal or conservative. Buy a judge/s....override the will of the people. Haven't you been paying attention?

[whec720]

I don't care if the Fairy Godmother gets in, no income=no taxes

How do you live? Goods and services cost money.

[RoBoTeq]

More like he, Soros, has bought the entire Democratic Party. Now the Republican cowards are like dogs, running around the the Dems, yelping in the hopes that they get a bone thrown their way.
Pathetic.:cool:
One of the biggest problems with the Republican Party right now is that they are so split. The moderate Democrats will still vote with the far left Democrats but the far right Republicans are too damned stuborn to vote with the moderate Republicans.

We really need to get rid of the political party system:cool:.

[RoBoTeq]

I watched Soros give an interview on CNN and he said he stays out of politics, although he gives a lot of money ,he asks for no favors
Right....and if you believe this, I have a nice bridge and some swamp land I'd like to sell you:rolleyes:.

Soros was plenty active in politics up to the last election. When Soros reneged on leaving the U.S. as he had promised, he proved that he is nothing but just another lying leftist Socialist.

[RoBoTeq]

I dont think it much matters who gets elected we will all be in trouble.
I somewhat agree. I just think we are going to be in more trouble with Obama then with McCain;).

[RoBoTeq]

Is everybody who is not a Republican a Communist now?:confused:
What gives you that impression? Has anyone stated this? Why exaggerate what isn't said?

[whec720]

One of the biggest problems with the Republican Party right now is that they are so split. The moderate Democrats will still vote with the far left Democrats but the far right Republicans are too damned stuborn to vote with the moderate Republicans.

We really need to get rid of the political party system:cool:.

I don't fault the "far right", as you put it, Republicans for that. F the socialists, be them Democrat or Republican.

I agree. The two party system is deplorable and needs to go.

[glennac]

Is everybody who is not a Republican a Communist now?:confused:

Of course not but Serous is way out there in left field. I consider him a true believer in the leftest cause.:eek:

[acmanko]

How do you live? Goods and services cost money. I told you in the last post, savings. you should start saving today and don't lock it up till you hit retirement age.