Wish List

[WizBang]

I would like to solicit the opinions of this group. If you were given the chance to add or change features about any products that you install or service, what would you add or remove? For example, I use I/A product and I don't like graphic programming, I would prefer a simply question and answer programming interface. Another example could be, if all my controllers were wireless, my installation and commission would be much simpler.

Thanks in advance for your valued opinions!

[Chris_Worthington]

Hmmm, one post and already wanting to let the worms out of the can :eek:

Your intent is??

[WizBang]

To solicit opinions of very technical, well trained and highly competent, controls people.

[smokeout]

I would like to be able to program/commission all brands of bas/ddc with an Xbox 360 controller. Wirelessly of course from my couch with a never ending supply of cheese puffs and some frosty mug root beer. I might even take a pay cut.:D

[Chris_Worthington]

I would like to be able to program/commission all brands of bas/ddc with an Xbox 360 controller. Wirelessly of course from my couch with a never ending supply of cheese puffs and some frosty mug root beer. I might even take a pay cut.:D

Might have to second smoke on this one :D

[freddy-b]

Is that you fishboy?

[digo]

I would prefer a simply question and answer programming interface.

Welcome to the real world. Programming in general should require a little more critical thinking than just answering a multiple-choice Q&A. :rolleyes:

[gnomethang]

Welcome to the real world. Programming in general should require a little more critical thinking than just answering a multiple-choice Q&A. :rolleyes:

I agree, but there is a reasonable case for de-skilling the commissioning process of (mainly) fixed function plant equipment, particularly in the OEM market.
Consider an AHU:
One might be presented with a ticksheet asking questions such as

Do you want a Time Schedule?
Do you have a Supply Air temperature sensor?
Do you have a Return Air Temperature Sensor?
Do you want Cascade Control/Supply Air Limit?
Do you have Humidity Control?
Do you have Pressure Control?
Do you have a VSD?
Do you have a Return Air System?
Do you want a free cooling/heating

Then you can define the input tyoe of each of these sensors (within limits)
Select alarm functions.

I have seen this type of approach in Europe and the application (while massive and unwieldy if you want to modifiy it) will deal with 90% + of AHU applications. The problem arises when the consultant wants his bespoke "Weird and Wonderful" scheduling e.g. demand driven occupation profile and setpoints.

IF you can get this sort of thing developed then you only really need a clever sparky and mechanical guy to install and set up (commission).

You could also set the 'Tick Sheet' online in a shopping basket and with a few more questions be able to manufacture and deliver in a pre-parameterised format.

BUT!,

If you really want my opinion then I would have to ask that you compel every FCU manufacturer to install a supply temperature sensor and pressure/current transducer on all their unitary controllers and create a 'Test' program that will run a fan check, heating and cooling check (having called for main plant to operate if out of occupation) that will spit out the 21 of 375 FCU in a building that Failed its test. The man-hours saved in a few years would more than make up for the capital outlay.

Just my $18-50 worth!

Barry

[sysint]

If the controllers set themselves up then the specifying engineers will have their secretaries do it...

[dave2142]

JCI went to that type of standard Q and A programming with their new bacnet controllers and I can say from experience it does not work. By doing this the idea was any low paid or entry tech can dump the program and it will fire up all
magic like and run perfect. That does not work and since they would not train those techs how to find and fix the problem it meant a lot more work for those who could. You can't beat sitting down and actually thinking the sequence out and then implementing it.

[mackinaw]

JCI went to that type of standard Q and A programming with their new bacnet controllers and I can say from experience it does not work. By doing this the idea was any low paid or entry tech can dump the program and it will fire up all
magic like and run perfect. That does not work and since they would not train those techs how to find and fix the problem it meant a lot more work for those who could. You can't beat sitting down and actually thinking the sequence out and then implementing it.


Dave, I agree with all of your comments except, it DOES work more times than not. Some of the sequences have trouble, towers and heat exchangers are an example. Keep in mind, CCT is only at version 4.0 so it will only get better....this is not a good thing either.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for my comments but, if JCI ever does make "so easy a caveman could do it", we are all in trouble. :mad:

[freddy-b]

Dave, I agree with all of your comments except, it DOES work more times than not. Some of the sequences have trouble, towers and heat exchangers are an example. Keep in mind, CCT is only at version 4.0 so it will only get better....this is not a good thing either.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for my comments but, if JCI ever does make "so easy a caveman could do it", we are all in trouble. :mad:

They still try and they try. It will never happen or be effective..to many technical variables in play...too many chiefs with to many hands in the pot. Wont happen.

[mackinaw]

They still try and they try. It will never happen or be effective..to many technical variables in play...too many chiefs with to many hands in the pot. Wont happen.

Freddy, it already has. I'm not saying they do a better job than you, they are just doing it cheaper...and making more money. You saw the young guns that were brought in for far less money, they are now installing jobs and using Q&A software to get them there. Not saying it's right, just saying it is....

[freddy-b]

Freddy, it already has. I'm not saying they do a better job than you, they are just doing it cheaper...and making more money. You saw the young guns that were brought in for far less money, they are now installing jobs and using Q&A software to get them there. Not saying it's right, just saying it is....

And they suck..cant think outside the box. and basically destroy stuff because they have no clue..

[mackinaw]

And they suck..cant think outside the box. and basically destroy stuff because they have no clue..

Again, I did not say the CCT cowboys are doing a better job, I just said they are doing the jobs.....cheaper.

[freddy-b]

Again, I did not say the CCT cowboys are doing a better job, I just said they are doing the jobs.....cheaper.

Cheaper for the customer? Not a chance in hell... For JCI absolutely...Thats my point..... Cheap Stupid labor...Higher Rate to customer than they can get me..and they are there five times as long....Whos that cheaper for. Its robbery..you cant call it anything else.....because its premeditated.

[shifferbrains]

I think that all Fan Units, Chillers, Heat Exchangers, ect, ect, (things you would find in a typical HVAC system).... should all be exactly the same and come with pre-configured controllers built into them with wireless network connections all reporting back the pre-configured front end that automatically assigns pre-made graphics to each new unit it sees on the network. And we should get paid Big Big Bucks for turning it on and letting it do it’s thing. I also think the Uber-FrontEnd should automatically seek out the nearest internet connection so a bunch of guys in India can keep an eye on the system.

What a dream job.... But then what would I do for a hobby?