Okay, here's the deal.

[Green Mountain]

Since "01 I have been a member of this forum. I am an independent voter. But I am also a Vietnam vet.

Obama has a Kennedy like air about him. Which is a good thing. So who to vote for????

Tonight I met a guy at the VFW who is here in VT visiting his grandma. He was born and raised in Alaska. So I asked him how folks thought about Sarah up there. He couldn't say enough good things about her.

I guess I made my mind up tonight. When you have 2 people who are trying to do great things for America --What the heck.

On the other side we have 2 Senators. It is too bad that McCain is a Senator because that is a black mark against him. Congress sucks.

Unless something dramatic happens,,right now I am with the Republican ticket.

[gillman-air]

I also wish McCain was not a senator, but over the last few weeks after seeing that Mccain was trying to fix freddie and fannie a few years ago, I feel a lot better about his being a senator. I believe that Obama has always been for the idea that instead of pursuing the american dream, that it should be handed to you.

[frozensolid]

I'm an independent also, and I think they both stink like rancid pork. So I am going to write you in for Pres. :)

[zzonko]

I'm an independent also, and I think they both stink like rancid pork. So I am going to write you in for Pres. :)


You were out and free, but slowly you got pulled back in, never to escape;)

[k-fridge]

I don't like former senators as presidents either. Governors or ex-military commanders make the best ones.

I also agree with Dennis that both sides stink.

But one of these tickets WILL be elected in about a month. McCain has at least shown an ability to buck the system, that gives me a ray of hope. I really like Palin, I see something in her that reminds me a lot of Ronald Reagan. If McCain pulls this off, Sarah may well be our first female prez.

But this economic mess has hurt McCain bad. It shouldn't have, but the Dems have spun the blame for this on Bush and the GOP. McCain has his work cut out for him if he's gonna pull this off.

Fingers crossed, I think Obama will be very bad for the US. Especially now, his policies will be devastating in this economic mess we're in.

[whec720]

McCain needs to go on offense. He is doing that now, a bit more, but is it too late? I'd start at Barney Frank to spin this back on the Democrats. People loathe this guy. What a piece of garbage.

[k-fridge]

[McCain] What a piece of garbage.

That's too nice a term for him. He should resign now, Chris Dodd right behind him.

Palin is hitting the trail with guns-a-blazin, let's just hope there's still time to wake people up.

[jpb2]

Palin is a hottie with a mind to match. As a Libertarian I have no problem supporting the best ticket that I see. I wish it was different But I give props to johnny boy for Sara

[whec720]

That's too nice a term for him. He should resign now, Chris Dodd right behind him.

Palin is hitting the trail with guns-a-blazin, let's just hope there's still time to wake people up.

Frank resign? He won't even admit he did anything wrong. He's all over youtube now, because of Bill O'Reilly. Just about everybody knows who he is. All people see is his callous demeanor and arrogance. He acted and looked like a slob. People hate this guy.
McCain can use him to club Obama over the head. Guilt by association. Barney Frank could become the poster boy of the Democratic Party. That will scare many independents away from the Obama ticket.
Trust me. This would work.

[glennac]

Not trying to sound too mellow dramatic but if Obama wins we may never recover. I believe that they will open the flood gates even wider to illeagal aliens and get them to vote along with the felons, and no voter checks on who is actually voting.

The economy will go into the tank and Obama and the radical dems may try to take over the country in a similar fashion to what has happen in Venezuala.

The last stand for Western Civilization and freedom in the world may go under if the radicals take over. The world may go into a new "Dark Age" pun intended if they win.

[scrogdog]

McCain needs to go on offense. He is doing that now, a bit more, but is it too late? I'd start at Barney Frank to spin this back on the Democrats. People loathe this guy. What a piece of garbage.

I am most certainly NOT proud of my home state being represented by the likes of Frank, but isn't it ironic that the "agents of change" that are the democratic party (and rule my state) continue to support the likes of Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy year after year, election after election... no matter what they've done?

What a bunch of frauds.

[mlstark]

I am most certainly NOT proud of my home state being represented by the likes of Frank, but isn't it ironic that the "agents of change" that are the democratic party (and rule my state) continue to support the likes of Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy year after year, election after election... no matter what they've done?

What a bunch of frauds.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Must be something in the water.;)

[whec720]

I am most certainly NOT proud of my home state being represented by the likes of Frank, but isn't it ironic that the "agents of change" that are the democratic party (and rule my state) continue to support the likes of Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy year after year, election after election... no matter what they've done?

What a bunch of frauds.

I guess I can't talk smack. My state, we have the likes of "hate guns" Chuck Schumer and "China Doll" Hillary Clinton. I feel your pain.:o

[gillman-air]

Is there a single democrat on this site that will be voting for barrack. I've seen a lot of people argue on this site about which side is responsible for the problems we have faced over the recent years, but I have'nt really heard anyone talk about how great obama is. I think that a lot of people no matter how much they hate bush, will be voting for Mccain.

[mrs reb77]

McCain is not nor has he ever been a Bush lover. Only the Democrats keep on with McCain being the same as Bush. They've only had an uneasy truce since McCain lost the primary to bush back in 2000.

[k-fridge]

Is there a single democrat on this site that will be voting for barrack. I've seen a lot of people argue on this site about which side is responsible for the problems we have faced over the recent years, but I have'nt really heard anyone talk about how great obama is. I think that a lot of people no matter how much they hate bush, will be voting for Mccain.
I have no doubt that a few of our members will be voting Obama.

[behappy]

I don't like former senators as presidents either. Governors or ex-military commanders make the best ones.

*****

But one of these tickets WILL be elected in about a month. McCain has at least shown an ability to buck the system, that gives me a ray of hope. I really like Palin, I see something in her that reminds me a lot of Ronald Reagan. If McCain pulls this off, Sarah may well be our first female prez.


Amen Brother!

Don't know if you have seen Fox, but they have put together a great story line on this! According to the clip history is showing this mortgage debacle starting with (drum roll) Bill Clinton in his final days. Then it is perpetrated by the Democrats with the help of some Republicans all the way to George Bush. Greenspan started yelling that the sky was going to fall. G.B. tried twice during the beginning of his administration to change the laws and was shot down by the democrats.

This is a great segment!

When McCain get's elected, he will have his hands full with Palin! :D

Viva La Barracuda!

[k-fridge]

Amen Brother!

Don't know if you have seen Fox, but they have put together a great story line on this! According to the clip history is showing this mortgage debacle starting with (drum roll) Bill Clinton in his final days. Then it is perpetrated by the Democrats with the help of some Republicans all the way to George Bush. Greenspan started yelling that the sky was going to fall. G.B. tried twice during the beginning of his administration to change the laws and was shot down by the democrats.

This is a great segment!

When McCain get's elected, he will have his hands full with Palin! :D

Viva La Barracuda!

My wife saw it today, said it was good. I wish everyone could see what really happened, the Dems have successfully spun this and placed the blame on the GOP; while they deserve some of the blame the Dems are the more guilty of the two parties.

[whec720]

Not too difficult when the MSM is on your side and helping. Its always uphill for the Republicans, yet since LBJ, they have been doing pretty well in Presidential elections. Guess we will wait and see.

[mark beiser]

If Obama wins, I'll be in favor of Texas dropping out of the union.:D

[behappy]

If Obama wins, I'll be in favor of Texas dropping out of the union.:D

I always liked the Hill country.... :D

[ga-hvac-tech]

If Obama wins, I'll be in favor of Texas dropping out of the union.:D

You guys do that and I will have to move back to Houston (where I grew up)... :D

[whec720]

I'll just follow the rest of the cars out of upstate NY.:D

[frozensolid]

Gentlemen, True Patriots don't run away from their country, only hardcore partisans do.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Gentlemen, True Patriots don't run away from their country, only hardcore partisans do.

Interesting thought,

The true patriots I read about in the founding history of this country would risk their lives for what they believed in... Maybe my vision is dim, but I do not see those today... can anyone show me some of those?

Is Mr Obama and/or Mr Biden one/two of those?

Is Mr McCain one of those?

Maybe Ms Palin?

[forged alloy]

In Michigan we have been and are still being bombarded by Obama propaganda. All the in state rags have pounced on his bandwagon. Maybe it isn't so bad elsewhere.

Now McCain announces he's pulling out of our state. Great, thanks alot John-boy. I'm sure all of our local republicans running for office have some special thoughts of their own to share.

Three weeks ago I thought McCain was a slam dunk, now I feel that he has no shot. He has allowed Obama to champion the economy, potray him as Bush lll, and seems utterly clueless about delivering any type of cohesive message. Maybe he is buddies with Frank and Dodd, and doesn't want to throw fellow senators under the bus.

Maverick my ass.

[frozensolid]

Interesting thought,

The true patriots I read about in the founding history of this country would risk their lives for what they believed in... Maybe my vision is dim, but I do not see those today... can anyone show me some of those?

Is Mr Obama and/or Mr Biden one/two of those?

Is Mr McCain one of those?

Maybe Ms Palin?


I was not talking about politicians.

And yes, your vision is quite dim, because I know of about 120,000 Patriots in Iraq right now. I assure you, even if you can't see them, they are there.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I was not talking about politicians.

And yes, your vision is quite dim, because I know of about 120,000 Patriots in Iraq right now. I assure you, even if you can't see them, they are there.

I see where we are looking in different directions... I was referring to politicians.

Problem is, we need some patriots in leadership; but it appears that is not going to happen this time.

[acmanko]

There is a third choice, Ralph Nader. If you go back in time, he's been preaching about this mess for a long time. A vote for him would be a vote for change.

[k-fridge]

There is a third choice, Ralph Nader. If you go back in time, he's been preaching about this mess for a long time. A vote for him would be a vote for change.
If you're going 3rd party I'd recommend Barr. Nader is crazy

[ga-hvac-tech]

There is a third choice, Ralph Nader. If you go back in time, he's been preaching about this mess for a long time. A vote for him would be a vote for change.

A third party vote for a candidate helps elect the candidate on the opposite side of the isle... splits the vote on your side...

Yeah, I think we may not have a 'great' choice this time around; but lets be sure the worst choice does NOT get in.

[acmanko]

If you're going 3rd party I'd recommend Barr. Nader is crazy
Nader might be crazy, but stupid would be what 4 more years of Bush inc would be, and I can't think of a word for what would happen under obama

[k-fridge]

Nader might be crazy, but stupid would be what 4 more years of Bush inc would be, and I can't think of a word for what would happen under obama

Bush isn't (and can't) run again.


And in spite of what Obama says, McCain is no Bush. Their relationship has been strained at best, you're an informed guy so you should know that if you're looking at it without bias.

[acmanko]

Bush isn't (and can't) run again.


And in spite of what Obama says, McCain is no Bush. Their relationship has been strained at best, you're an informed guy so you should know that if you're looking at it without bias.what you say is true, but Bush inc is the Republican party. so when all is said and done , we don't need Republicans anymore, they have screwed this crounty enough in the last 8 years to last a lifetime. As far as Democrats, caveat emptor.

[ga-hvac-tech]

what you say is true, but Bush inc is the Republican party. so when all is said and done , we don't need Republicans anymore, they have screwed this crounty enough in the last 8 years to last a lifetime. As far as Democrats, caveat emptor.

Lessee now...

If I ever owned a GM vehicle and it was bad, that means no more GM vehicles ever...

And if I ever owned a Ford and it was bad, that means no more Fords...

And if the same for a Dodge, then no more dogs either...

Looks to me like I would not be able to have a service van if my thinking was that shallow.

I agree Ace; GW Bush and co did not do a very good job... But do you really think Obummer will do better than McCain? Forget yesterday, lets ONLY focus on tomorrow: Do you really embrace what BHO says, and do you really think it will improve things (again, no comments on yesterday, only tomorrow).

[k-fridge]

what you say is true, but Bush inc is the Republican party. so when all is said and done , we don't need Republicans anymore, they have screwed this crounty enough in the last 8 years to last a lifetime. As far as Democrats, caveat emptor.

They have made their mistakes, no doubt. But the GOP's damage is minor compared to what the Dems have done to us.

[k-fridge]

what you say is true, but Bush inc is the Republican party. so when all is said and done , we don't need Republicans anymore, they have screwed this crounty enough in the last 8 years to last a lifetime. As far as Democrats, caveat emptor.

You should read this. It's from teh NY Times, hardly a friend to the GOP. It doesn't point fingers at the parties, but look at teh time lines in the article.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/business/05fannie.html?_r=1&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065&oref=slogin

[acmanko]

You should read this. It's from teh NY Times, hardly a friend to the GOP. It doesn't point fingers at the parties, but look at teh time lines in the article.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/business/05fannie.html?_r=1&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065&oref=slogin I've read that and you can point blame back to the creation of fannie and freddie. However the start of the subprime fiasco started with loans originated in 2005-2006 resetting to higher interest rates. the repubs controlled both houses of congress and the executive branch during that period. furthermore , if you want to get historical, HH is remembered for being in office during the Great Depression of 1929. Bush will be remembered for this.

evidently neither of you know latin for Buyer Beware, which is what I said about the democrats

and to address Ga techs analogy, buy a Japanese american made car, Toyota, honda and nissan all have factories in the US

[ga-hvac-tech]

and to address Ga techs analogy, buy a Japanese american made car, Toyota, honda and nissan all have factories in the US

But where would I get a full sized service van?

[jpb2]

Bush minus the tax cuts and the war has been one big dissapointment. Worst since Carter. Nader would be even a worse choice than Barry and he is a train wreck. Johhny is not ideal and I actually wish the ticket was flipped to Palin/ McCain vs. McCain/Palin. There were better choices but this is what we must deal with

[frozensolid]

Maybe Palin can wink our way out of this mess. Hey wall street....Wink Wink.....play nice. :)

[jpb2]

She's at least playing the part.

[jpb2]

A Rudy/ Romney ticket with Huckabee as vp would have suited me better as I have hopes of The Fair Tax becoming legislation. This would be a great time for that to hannep but it is a dead bill on the floor

[k-fridge]

I've read that and you can point blame back to the creation of fannie and freddie. However the start of the subprime fiasco started with loans originated in 2005-2006 resetting to higher interest rates. the repubs controlled both houses of congress and the executive branch during that period. furthermore , if you want to get historical, HH is remembered for being in office during the Great Depression of 1929. Bush will be remembered for this.

evidently neither of you know latin for Buyer Beware, which is what I said about the democrats

and to address Ga techs analogy, buy a Japanese american made car, Toyota, honda and nissan all have factories in the US

You don't seem to know how congress works.

Several of the Republicans did sound the alarm. Alan Greenspan sounded the alarm. Even the Bush administration sounded the alarm. The Democrats (who happened to be getting huge chunks of $$ from Freddie and Fannie) said nothing s wrong and blocked legislation. McCain co-sponsored a bill to tighten regulation, Democrats kept it from getting out of committee.

The mess really blew up during the Clinton administration when he expanded the CRA.

This is all fact, if you care to check it.

[frozensolid]

Gw had a republican congress when he tried, did he not? Still we point fingers, the blame game. This mess is an equal opportunity employer.

You want blame point at us, we are to blame. When we start accepting that responsibility, we will then and only then, be on our way to recovery.

[glennac]

Gw had a republican congress when he tried, did he not? Still we point fingers, the blame game. This mess is an equal opportunity employer.

You want blame point at us, we are to blame. When we start accepting that responsibility, we will then and only then, be on our way to recovery.

You mean nobody ever does anything wrong, the socialist are no more to blame for Friedy Mac than the Republicans who opposed it. Nice logic. I hope you never become an analyst.

[k-fridge]

Gw had a republican congress when he tried, did he not? Still we point fingers, the blame game. This mess is an equal opportunity employer.

You want blame point at us, we are to blame. When we start accepting that responsibility, we will then and only then, be on our way to recovery.

The GOP had a razor thin lead when Dubya's people started warning of the mess. Bills originate in committee, and they can be blocked by a minority. If they don't get out of committee, they don't get a vote by the entire body.

To be clear, I am not saying the GOP is without blame. But the Dems are the worse of the two evils.

Either way, it's clear that congress is where the problem has been for the last 8 years. AC is still blaming Bush same as the Dems are. Regardless of which party was more at fault, it was congress that made the mess in recent years. Here's some logic for you; congress will remain under control of the Dems, do you want a Democratic prez that will side with them or a Republican prez who can veto some of their crap?

Finally..... I mentioned above that several of the Dems were getting big bucks from Freddie and Fannie. In just 2 short years in the senate, guess who became the second highest recipient of donations from them?

Obama.

[acmanko]

But where would I get a full sized service van?
there you go be part of the problem and not part of the solution. why on heavens earth do you need a 1/2-3/4 ton van to run service. get that mentality out of your head and profit.:rolleyes:

[ga-hvac-tech]

there you go be part of the problem and not part of the solution. why on heavens earth do you need a 1/2-3/4 ton van to run service. get that mentality out of your head and profit.:rolleyes:

Anything to avoid having to answer a question...

Tell me this Ace, why should I bother to debate with you when you refuse to answer the questions placed in front of you?

[k-fridge]

there you go be part of the problem and not part of the solution. why on heavens earth do you need a 1/2-3/4 ton van to run service. get that mentality out of your head and profit.:rolleyes:
Depends on the kind of service. Maybe you also do installs. We use 1 ton box trucks and KUV's. We're commercial though and carry a whole lot more crap.

[acmanko]

Anything to avoid having to answer a question...

Tell me this Ace, why should I bother to debate with you when you refuse to answer the questions placed in front of you? well, get a Kia, they make a nice little box truck, it might have another name, but I believe its Kia. Better:D

[acmanko]

Depends on the kind of service. Maybe you also do installs. We use 1 ton box trucks and KUV's. We're commercial though and carry a whole lot more crap. I do commercial and drive a big chevy 3500, but most of the time its really to much truck

[glennac]

there you go be part of the problem and not part of the solution. why on heavens earth do you need a 1/2-3/4 ton van to run service. get that mentality out of your head and profit.:rolleyes:

Maybe we should follow the example of you and your fellow liberals' hero, Owl Gore. Need I say more.:)

[acmanko]

Maybe we should follow the example of you and your fellow liberals' hero, Owl Gore. Need I say more.:)
I told you, I'm ultra conservative. I actually attempted to watch Owl's documentary but could only stomach about 2 minutes of it. I believe while you in Georgia were seeking a gallon of gas , I was burning my and your share on a round trip to alabama and back. i actually thought of you everytime I stopped and filled up.:D

[glennac]

I told you, I'm ultra conservative. I actually attempted to watch Owl's documentary but could only stomach about 2 minutes of it. I believe while you in Georgia were seeking a gallon of gas , I was burning my and your share on a round trip to alabama and back. i actually thought of you everytime I stopped and filled up.:D

Well your the first "ultra conservative" I have ever heard who loves the dems and hates the Republicans. May I suggest you donate your brain in your will to the Smithsonian. I'm sure they would love to analyze it.:rolleyes:

[acmanko]

Well your the first "ultra conservative" I have ever heard who loves the dems and hates the Republicans. May I suggest you donate your brain in your will to the Smithsonian. I'm sure they would love to analyze it.:rolleyes: I don't believe you can do a search of my posts and prove that i love Democrats. If Obama wins in November then you will get a chance to read my love. Untill then , Its the republicans turn to experience ' tough love':eek:

[ga-hvac-tech]

On the work vehicle issue:

I have used a pickup with a box, a pickup with a trailer, a mini-van, a full sized van, and a extended chassis full sized van.

I can say from experience it is better for me to have all I need ON the van ALL the time. In a small area, one can run back to the shop... in a HUGE metro area like Atlanta, one will waste as much as 2 hours doing a 'shop run'.

No, the full sized van is the only way for me.

On another topic: I do not think you are a true conservative. A true conservative believes that less government is better. And you will have to convince me with lots of data to prove that Dem's truly vote in congress for less government.

So no, I do not believe you when you say you are a conservative.

[acmanko]

On the work vehicle issue:

I have used a pickup with a box, a pickup with a trailer, a mini-van, a full sized van, and a extended chassis full sized van.

I can say from experience it is better for me to have all I need ON the van ALL the time. In a small area, one can run back to the shop... in a HUGE metro area like Atlanta, one will waste as much as 2 hours doing a 'shop run'.

No, the full sized van is the only way for me.

On another topic: I do not think you are a true conservative. A true conservative believes that less government is better. And you will have to convince me with lots of data to prove that Dem's truly vote in congress for less government.

So no, I do not believe you when you say you are a conservative. likewise , I have my doubts about anyone on this board being a conservative. in my opinion, religious people are as liberal as any sector of the population. christians , even more so. one cannot be Christ like and not care about the poor, the sick, the unfortunate.

[ga-hvac-tech]

likewise , I have my doubts about anyone on this board being a conservative. in my opinion, religious people are as liberal as any sector of the population. christians , even more so. one cannot be Christ like and not care about the poor, the sick, the unfortunate.

So who says a true Christian does not?

[acmanko]

So who says a true Christian does not? one cannot care and be conservative.

[glennac]

one cannot care and be conservative.

So you being an "ultra conservative" you must care the least of anybody about the suffering of fellow human beings in the world.:(:confused:

[acmanko]

So you being an "ultra conservative" you must care the least of anybody about the suffering of fellow human beings in the world.:(:confused: I think about them and say, there but for the grace of god go I. But then I remember, God helps those who help themselves

[ga-hvac-tech]

one cannot care and be conservative.

I disagree. I think you have a stereo type of what you THINK a conservative Christian is. And I can guarantee you that a few of the folks here on this forum do not fit your perception.

And just for the record: The current 'neo-con evangelical' is NOT a true conservative, nor are they true Christians. At least not by the standards I believe and live to.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last time the media has succeeded in telling a lie the public has believed.

[acmanko]

I disagree. I think you have a stereo type of what you THINK a conservative Christian is. And I can guarantee you that a few of the folks here on this forum do not fit your perception.

And just for the record: The current 'neo-con evangelical' is NOT a true conservative, nor are they true Christians. At least not by the standards I believe and live to.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last time the media has succeeded in telling a lie the public has believed.
I take my opinion of conservative Christians, by the community I live in, not by the media

[ga-hvac-tech]

I take my opinion of conservative Christians, by the community I live in, not by the media

So tell me about them... do you have some personal relationships with them? Work on community projects with them? Worship with them every Sunday?

[ga-hvac-tech]

I take my opinion of conservative Christians, by the community I live in, not by the media

So tell me about them... do you have some personal relationships with them? Work on community projects with them? Worship with them every Sunday? How about Bible Study every week, where folks talk about their issues and ask for prayer? Do your neighbors do that with you regularly?

[acmanko]

So tell me about them... do you have some personal relationships with them? Work on community projects with them? Worship with them every Sunday? How about Bible Study every week, where folks talk about their issues and ask for prayer? Do your neighbors do that with you regularly?
no they don't, yet they claim to be conservative christians