End of the line for the NAE?

[NINAX]

Is JCI giving up on the NAEs?.......

[x-wrenchturner]

I don't know.

What do you think?

[Vortech]

omg - no-- the NAE has gotten better and better and hopfully with a few more rev's will be bug free ---

It is there flagship product and it is the future of the JCI product line - its not going anywhere soon and it should only get better.

I t really is not as bad as you ex's make it out to be at least not any more

-V-

[NINAX]

I don't know, some low level chatter. Maybe some JCI'ers can expand.

Maybe jumping on the AX-Sedona train?

Maybe using the HW branch / non-branch method for division?

[NINAX]

omg - no-- the NAE has gotten better and better and hopfully with a few more rev's will be bug free ---

It is there flagship product and it is the future of the JCI product line - its not going anywhere soon and it should only get better.

I t really is not as bad as you ex's make it out to be at least not any more

-V-

It CAN only get better?

And who are these exs you are referring to?

[Chris_Worthington]

:eek:


Maybe jumping on the AX-Sedona train?

[freddy-b]

I have to agree with Vortech on this one for two reasons.

1: The decision makers are not that smart.

2: They are way too Arrogant to admit that a "subordinate" platform outclasses them at every facet of the game.

I will keep my ears open , and try to pry a little on the subject at the next opportunity.

[digo]

1: The decision makers are not that smart.

:D what a shocker!

[Chris_Worthington]

Interesting reply Digo.........

Ugggg, time to order some more of them cigars :D

[Chet1508]

Lets Put it this way the JCI Factory Branch has been using our site as a learning site for a apprentice;where a journeyman has belonged.. Its been a year and a half over the original date of completion; With no end in site. As time has went on more glitches in the NAE have continued to multiply, It went from a swimming pool size of glitches to now a ocean. Trash that damn system and do us all a favor!!

[Chris_Worthington]

Trash that damn system and do us all a favor!!

OMG, here come the JCI police again ;)

For all da JCI police,,, I have link for ya ;) http://clickme.50webs.org/

:D

[freddy-b]

http://www.netrover.com/~elindsay/key2%5B1%5D.gif

[Chris_Worthington]

LOL :D

[NINAX]

Trash that damn system and do us all a favor!!

Maybe this is the key, after all, JCI does have an automotive division. NAEs - new source for alternative fuel? (http://www.livescience.com/environment/080514-computer-waste.html)

But seriously, I'm interested in what the JCI'ers have heard, like a timeline.
If it's the case, they don't know how lucky they'd be.

I don't think Vortech wanted to hear any of this. Maybe he's a bitter tech, clinging to his NAEs and SCT.

[freddy-b]

Maybe this is the key, after all, JCI does have an automotive division. NAEs - new source for alternative fuel? (http://www.livescience.com/environment/080514-computer-waste.html)

But seriously, I'm interested in what the JCI'ers have heard, like a timeline.
If it's the case, they don't know how lucky they'd be.

I don't think Vortech wanted to hear any of this. Maybe he's a bitter tech, clinging to his NAEs and SCT.

Priceless

[digo]

[QUOTE=Chris_Worthingt;1989310]Interesting reply Digo.........
/QUOTE]

I meant shocker as in: shocking news to me, they actually aren't that smart? /sarcasm

I hear the word used in this manner often from Adam Carolla on the radio.

Sorry if I unintentionally had you confused with this meaning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker_(hand_gesture)

Forgive me, I'm a foreigner and I'll be making these kinds of mistake often. :D

[Vortech]

Bitter... me no, I just work with what we have, design my projects with the products limitations in mind and can get almost anything to work well,(everything actually with proper planning) most of the problems I see come up on this board and in the field is due to lack of knowledge and/or lack of planning - WE know what an NAE can and cant do and I have worked on Siemens and JCI products I like both product lines.

and I look foward to working on the tridium stuff sometime soon

-V-

[NINAX]

Bitter... me no,
That was a play on a political statement by BO.


I just work with what we have, design my projects with the products limitations in mind and can get almost anything to work well,(everything actually with proper planning) most of the problems I see come up on this board and in the field is due to lack of knowledge and/or lack of planning
So you would attribute little to the capability issues of the hardware, and most on the personnel?



and I look foward to working on the tridium stuff sometime soon
This sounds alot like a non-confirmation, confirmation. Any type of non-time line, time line you might offer float? If this is the case, you'll see what a HUGE difference there is between the two.

[Vortech]

Lets Put it this way the JCI Factory Branch has been using our site as a learning site for a apprentice;where a journeyman has belonged.. Its been a year and a half over the original date of completion; With no end in site. As time has went on more glitches in the NAE have continued to multiply, It went from a swimming pool size of glitches to now a ocean. Trash that damn system and do us all a favor!!

I feel your pain chet, this should not happen but sounds typical of systems group ever since the SGI debolical - complian to millwalkee not the branch you can see results if you shake the tree high enough. If that does not get you the system you paid for then it is up to you and your company to take your money to another vendor

-V-

[Vortech]

That was a play on a political statement by BO.


So you would attribute little to the capability issues of the hardware, and most on the personnel?

there are issues we see in the field from a tech stand point that make little sense (ie: Lon works, the inabillity to use any points with non-standard naming conventions, wtf how many times has that bit you in the ass... but the fault also lies in venders using non-standard conventions - that is the purpose or INTENT of having a standard, yes it would be so much easier for us if JCI allowed custom points - but they did not, wish they did..... same goes for bacnet and the 4 ver's that a vendor can say "they are bacnet compliant"

so to answer your question: yes personnel not knowing what they can and can't do cause's most of the problems because they dont identify what they can and can not do in the planning and or design phase.

This sounds alot like a non-confirmation, confirmation. Any type of non-time line, time line you might offer float? If this is the case, you'll see what a HUGE difference there is between the two.

I have heard alot on how great Jace is and I am interested in knowing and learning a new product, the more I know the more valuable I am. so learning never stops for me my knowledge base now covers: JCI,Seimens, Andover and steefa I can design,program and commision these systems, with 20 years in the controls field I feel safe saying: although not perfect the NAE product is not as bad as many of you make it out to be.

[Chet1508]

Hi Vortech,
I appreciate your positive feedback. As the old saying goes: been there done that. I will try to bring you up to speed after a 1 1/2 years of posting. Which from almost the get go (with my over 25 years of experience in the controls industry serving as the commisioning agent for the school district where I work) I could see I would be working with a factory branch that really belonged in the Barnum and Bailey Circus..They were full of every trick in the book. As I told the project manager (Actually a want to be Project Manager)shortly after the job started,(And he never listened or cared) if you put the type of energy you put in to making up lies on why you can't keep pace with the project. you would be the so much further ahead, of course this never happen. I have contacted corporate several times. They are also a joke. All they do is pawn off back to the worthless branch manager. Your right about hiring someone else, If I was the money man where I work that would been done at least 1 1/2 years ago....

Thanks for understanding,
Chet

[NINAX]

I have heard alot on how great Jace is and I am interested in knowing and learning a new product, the more I know the more valuable I am. so learning never stops for me my knowledge base now covers: JCI,Seimens, Andover and steefa I can design,program and commision these systems, with 20 years in the controls field I feel safe saying: although not perfect the NAE product is not as bad as many of you make it out to be.

I can't quite make out what you're talking about with the non-standard naming/LON stuff. If it's difficult to do LON with a Nae, it's the Nae, not LON.

Now BACcrap, well, that's BACcrap.

Can I assume that you will niether confirm, nor deny the AX rumor?

[buzzman]

My company is an independent and we have installed +-150 NAE/NCE's. There were more issues in the beginning than there are now and with software rev's coming out about every 6 months things have gotten progressively better. I am trained in the new FEC controller line and have no problems with other vendors MS/TP controllers on the bus at the same time. I have also done BACnet over IP and have had no issues other than making sure the settings are correct on both devices.

I can tell by the previous posts that some hand-tool out there is trying to get a rise out of us all,but other than some bugs(that all manufacturers have) or just bad programming(which no manufacturer can protect us all from) it's been a good line for us.

Practice makes perfect!!

[Chris_Worthington]

BUZZ man,,,,,,,,

BUZZ being the keyword here :rolleyes:

[NINAX]

My company is an independent and we have installed +-150 NAE/NCE's. There were more issues in the beginning than there are now and with software rev's coming out about every 6 months things have gotten progressively better. I am trained in the new FEC controller line and have no problems with other vendors MS/TP controllers on the bus at the same time. I have also done BACnet over IP and have had no issues other than making sure the settings are correct on both devices.

I can tell by the previous posts that some hand-tool out there is trying to get a rise out of us all,but other than some bugs(that all manufacturers have) or just bad programming(which no manufacturer can protect us all from) it's been a good line for us.

Practice makes perfect!!

It's amazing how often I hear JCI talk about bugs, and how everyone has them, and how it's bad programming (with the implication that it was non-JCI personnel that hosed it up).

I think you're trying to blow some smoke about how great the Naes are. If you're not part of a JCI branch, why aren't you using FXs?

Do you know that JCI is not going to AX or just hoping they won't?

[freddy-b]

My company is an independent and we have installed +-150 NAE/NCE's. There were more issues in the beginning than there are now and with software rev's coming out about every 6 months things have gotten progressively better. I am trained in the new FEC controller line and have no problems with other vendors MS/TP controllers on the bus at the same time. I have also done BACnet over IP and have had no issues other than making sure the settings are correct on both devices.

I can tell by the previous posts that some hand-tool out there is trying to get a rise out of us all,but other than some bugs(that all manufacturers have) or just bad programming(which no manufacturer can protect us all from) it's been a good line for us.

Practice makes perfect!!


How long have you been in the biz buzzboy?

EDIT: OH ....I see 23 years. Excusing uninformed youth is one thing. Will the real Tool please stand up!

[sysint]

Hmmm. Ninax, This may be the second time I've heard something like this...

[x-wrenchturner]

There were more issues in the beginning than there are now and with software rev's coming out about every 6 months things have gotten progressively better.

How dare you!

Don't you know where you are!

[freddy-b]

How dare you!

Don't you know where you are!

Its ok X, the old guard does not want to play anymore. Bring in the New.

[buzzman]

I'm not an ex-jci employee. We've had the line since late 2003,long before the fx line came out. I didn't say it was all bad programming,hand tools.

[fculotta]

Chet,
What is your site?

<email address removed>

Please refrain from putting email addresses in your post. If needed, there is a section in your "UserIP" just for this. Thank you

[Chris_Worthington]

Email address's

Belong in your profiles! Please do not put them in posts as this attracts more and more spybots. This only slows the site.

It's great that you are sharing information, but PLLLLLLLLLLEASE put your email addresses in your profiles.

Thank you!

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=160646

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=1241

[x-wrenchturner]

I'm not an ex-jci employee. We've had the line since late 2003,long before the fx line came out. I didn't say it was all bad programming,hand tools.

Chill dude.

I was agreeing with your statement.

[freddy-b]

I'm not an ex-jci employee. We've had the line since late 2003,long before the fx line came out. I didn't say it was all bad programming,hand tools.

:D

[NINAX]

I'm not an ex-jci employee. We've had the line since late 2003,long before the fx line came out. I didn't say it was all bad programming,hand tools.

Congratulations.

But what does that mean? Is it that your head is so far up your ass that's there no hope that you'll ever see light or breath fresh air again?

Are we to believe that just because you've been using them for 5 years, that they're as great as you say, and that everyone else who can't make them fly like a rocket, as you apparently do, is a dipsh!t? There's alot of JCI and non-JCI/ex-JCI people that probably would take you to task on that.

Rocket on.

[NightrainATC]

I'm curious why it's believed that there might be an end to the NAE's. From my understanding, the JCI branches are now using the FEC BACnet MS/TP line with the intent (I'm assuming) of phasing out of new N2 controller installations. The NAE's are currently the only available supervisory level controller to host the FEC's...correct? Maybe Johnson is working on a new supervisory level product(s).

Any comments?

Thanks.

[NINAX]

I'm curious why it's believed that there might be an end to the NAE's. From my understanding, the JCI branches are now using the FEC BACnet MS/TP line with the intent (I'm assuming) of phasing out of new N2 controller installations. The NAE's are currently the only available supervisory level controller to host the FEC's...correct? Maybe Johnson is working on a new supervisory level product(s).

Any comments?

Thanks.

I heard some low level chatter about it.
The AX / FX can handle MS/TP, so JCI could continue with that route.

[NightrainATC]

I heard some low level chatter about it.
The AX / FX can handle MS/TP, so JCI could continue with that route.

Wow. Technicians where I work have become extremely comfortable with the NAE's over the years. They have one FX40 installation which was recently replaced with a NAE.....I think it was a combination of the programming/configuration differences along with the end user's complaining about the difference in the front end interface (one of his buildings has a NAE and the other initially had a FX40).

I can see Johnson going the AX/FX route honestly though. If they did, how would they differentiate what they could sell on the supervisory level versus a ABCS?

[freddy-b]

I can see Johnson going the AX/FX route honestly though. If they did, how would they differentiate what they could sell on the supervisory level versus a ABCS?


Think about it for a sec.....from a robber baron point of view!

[NINAX]

Wow. Technicians where I work have become extremely comfortable with the NAE's over the years. They have one FX40 installation which was recently replaced with a NAE.....I think it was a combination of the programming/configuration differences along with the end user's complaining about the difference in the front end interface (one of his buildings has a NAE and the other initially had a FX40).

I can see Johnson going the AX/FX route honestly though. If they did, how would they differentiate what they could sell on the supervisory level versus a ABCS?

By following the HW branch model. Call it a different name (like MSEA II or Metasys 4), restrict field controller availability and modify the NICs.

[NINAX]

And, on a second thought, combine that with the Trane type of maneuver and take over/buy out the ABCSs and turn them into branches.

[freddy-b]

And, on a second thought, combine that with the Trane type of maneuver and take over/buy out the ABCSs and turn them into branches.

And...................Think of all the people they get to fire. (again)

[NightrainATC]

And, on a second thought, combine that with the Trane type of maneuver and take over/buy out the ABCSs and turn them into branches.

I hear ya (crazy to think about :eek:). I used to work for Trane so I now how they operate, a big Carrier distributor and now a JCI ABCS. It's not like Johnson doesn't have the money to do it....they're buying everything else.

[Chet1508]

Chet,
What is your site?

<email address removed>

Please refrain from putting email addresses in your post. If needed, there is a section in your "UserIP" just for this. Thank you

Hey fculotta

Thanks for asking My email address is in my profile, please feel free to contact me

Thanks, Chet