Best way to Train

[reliance]

Thought this would be a good question how to train new guys from tech schools? Should we let the rookies do alot of watching ,alot of talking,or hands on with corrections.Or am I missing something all together like reading books also ?

[reliance]

Got 2 techs from school trying make it a win situation for everyone

[sfarrell12]

My personal opinion is, you have to make sure your apprentices understand what you are trying to teach them. You can show them once or twice but have that you need to let them do it on their own even if you only supervise. I have had many apprentices ask for help only to watch me fix the problem, and then 3 months later send them out to do the same thing again and they say they forgot how to do it. It is alot easier to retain the information if they actually have their (hands) on it. I am also a firm believer in books because you have to know the theory of what you are doing. when I first started I didnt have the theory and i only did things because thats what the older guys had told me to do before and i had no understanding of WHY I was doing. JMHO

[mustardman]

My opinion is hands on training is always better than watching. Send them out with the guys and let em do it. When I have an apprentice I always do the tube cleaning and filters etc and let them get into the thinking stuff. The one thing to always remember is to properly educate them first on safety and make them aware of all the dangers this job has. If they don't understand electrical don't let em touch it unsupervised until they do. Safety first then knowledge. A good guy will want to teach himself through reading and asking questions. My 02

[reliance]

totally agree with the teaching yourself.That is how I kind of did it.

[Tech Rob]

As long as you are patient within reason, helpful whenever possible, and are generally able to provide support and backup should they need it....

Throw 'em to the @#$%ing wolves. Sink or swim. Anybody that's not just there for a paycheck will go back to the drawing board after going down in flames once or twice and take a good look at what they're doing wrong.

[raiderdave007]

YOU GOTTA GET YOUR HANDS IN THERE,AND LET THEM KNOW EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES YOU JUST GOT TO KEEP ON MOVING.

[icehouse]

Let them get their hands dirty. The other is to educate them.
Let them read, and ask questions on what they read. :)

[cracker]

A cattle prod works good when they don't think.......http://bestsmileys.com/surprised/1.gif

[McLurkavelli!]

well, i take a little bit different of an approach. i have trained two apprentices. and i prefer corporal punishment. something modeled after this...:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S3CEgNl74

[william antley]

A previous employer where I was the senior tech, I trained all of the junior techs who were fresh out of tech school, and some of the other techs who had been doing this a few years but weren't quite up to speed.
My method, which works well, was to tell them how to do what ever they needed to do and make them do it, and to ask questions to make them look where they needed to be looking. I never touched tools, parts or manuals, unless I was handing something to them. They did the work under my watchful eyes and once done, never called for help except for different problems. I then worked them through it like I did the last time and it works, they learn and I'm not interrupted as much as I would have been.

[papa_jo]

A previous employer where I was the senior tech, I trained all of the junior techs who were fresh out of tech school, and some of the other techs who had been doing this a few years but weren't quite up to speed.
My method, which works well, was to tell them how to do what ever they needed to do and make them do it, and to ask questions to make them look where they needed to be looking. I never touched tools, parts or manuals, unless I was handing something to them. They did the work under my watchful eyes and once done, never called for help except for different problems. I then worked them through it like I did the last time and it works, they learn and I'm not interrupted as much as I would have been.

ditto

[reliance]

Been taking part of that approach. I often diagnose and let my trainee do the work.

[Flash9]

As a new student at my local trade school I try to get as much hands on as I can so when I get out into the real world I have a good understanding of the basics and I’m ready to get the job done. I have seen many students who stand back and watch too much. I have always wondered how well they would be able to do the job if they never actually done it.

[motivatedtech]

A previous employer where I was the senior tech, I trained all of the junior techs who were fresh out of tech school, and some of the other techs who had been doing this a few years but weren't quite up to speed.
My method, which works well, was to tell them how to do what ever they needed to do and make them do it, and to ask questions to make them look where they needed to be looking. I never touched tools, parts or manuals, unless I was handing something to them. They did the work under my watchful eyes and once done, never called for help except for different problems. I then worked them through it like I did the last time and it works, they learn and I'm not interrupted as much as I would have been.

This is exactly how I learned. Therefore, this is my primary method of training my apprentices. :)

[reliance]

wut are best books right now

[surenuff]

I know this thread has been done for a while now, but I went out online and googled best way to train an hvac tech, just to see if there was anything out there. It brought me here. I have been asked to develop a class in the fall that will meet 5 hours a day, 5days a week, for 16 weeks. I need to properly train them in the fundamentals of HVAC, train them in the basics of electricity for refrigeration, heating, and air conditioning, prepare them to take the 608 test for refrigerant exam, and get them ready to take the residentail portion of the ICE Exam. This is going to be a pretty tall order, but I think I can do this. I teach this material anyway, but it is not confined to one semester. The only saving grace I see while I am getting this course started in the buillding phase, is that I have them 5 hours a day for 5 days a week. If it were only a couple of nights a week, I would say it is impossible. Any advice would be welcome.

[wolfstrike]

the biggest mistake techs make is stopping an apprentice every time he startes heading in the wrong direction.
the second that happens he stops using his brain.

of course, you have to if there's a safety issue , and no one needs extra burned parts.

but there has to be that moment in time when an apprentice realizes that screwed up refrigerant pressures might have something to do with an indoor fan

you don't learn if you don't try things that don't work

[jpsmith1cm]

I know this thread has been done for a while now, but I went out online and googled best way to train an hvac tech, just to see if there was anything out there. It brought me here. I have been asked to develop a class in the fall that will meet 5 hours a day, 5days a week, for 16 weeks. I need to properly train them in the fundamentals of HVAC, train them in the basics of electricity for refrigeration, heating, and air conditioning, prepare them to take the 608 test for refrigerant exam, and get them ready to take the residentail portion of the ICE Exam. This is going to be a pretty tall order, but I think I can do this. I teach this material anyway, but it is not confined to one semester. The only saving grace I see while I am getting this course started in the buillding phase, is that I have them 5 hours a day for 5 days a week. If it were only a couple of nights a week, I would say it is impossible. Any advice would be welcome.


Your FIRST requirement is a motivated bunch of students. Without that, I don't believe that your task is possible.

608 isn't hard. Knock it out first.

Problem with classes like what you are getting into is they tend to turn into "teach to the test" scenarios. While it is effective to get good graduation numbers and good statistics "100% ICE Certified" it doesn't create good techs.

[surenuff]

you are so right, and I used to be very guilty of that. Back before I got hurt, I used to would rather do someting myself than wait on someone or ask them to do it. My hand, and my kids would get onto me saying that they could not learn unless they got to do it. I was just too impatient. Now, i have no choice but to teach and let them do most of the work. Now I spend most of my time teaching at school, or teaching my guys at the business. You got to let them get thier hands dirty.

[surenuff]

Your FIRST requirement is a motivated bunch of students. Without that, I don't believe that your task is possible.

608 isn't hard. Knock it out first.

Problem with classes like what you are getting into is they tend to turn into "teach to the test" scenarios. While it is effective to get good graduation numbers and good statistics "100% ICE Certified" it doesn't create good techs.

Thanks, and you are also right JP. I do not want to teach a class that leaves the student "Function Trained". I need(they need) them to learn this material as a practically applicable skill. I do not know about motivated, these are going to be students with tuition paid by a government grant. Part of Obama's mission for Green Technology. I am not saying anything about anything, but I have found that the best students are those who are having to pay thier own way. Now do not jump all over me, I am not saying that there is not exceptions to this rule, but it has been something I could pretty well count on. We have a great lab that students get to use thier new found skills in to put them to work. Maybe we can pull it off. I have pretty much commited to this now, and I am starting to build the curriculum.

[wisconsinapp]

I just got out of my apprenticeship school, and I will say the best way to teach is hands on. You can read out of a book and beat me over the head with the material all day if you really wanted, and I WOULD NOT remember a thing you said that day. Now if we were in the lab and I was actually seeing something first hand and seeing what is actually happening, then I would do it once, and its in my brain forever. Even today at my job, I tell my boss plenty of times, I might make more mistakes than the other guys, but I guarentee I will not make it twice. When you do something hands on its much more of a benfit than reading out of a book. If some kids would rather do it out of a book, let them do it at home. Kids cant really do hands on training at home though...

[surenuff]

Thanks for the input!! I really appreciate it. All of the classes I teach are set up on a 50/50 basis. Half of the class is spent in the class, and half in the lab. So for this class, it will be 2.5 hrs a day in the class, followed by 2.5 hrs in the lab. It will be from 1-5 Monday thru Friday. Unlike my regular classes that start at 6:00, I will not have a lab instructor, it will be just me. But I think it will be ok since I do not have two classes going like the evening classes, it will be just myself and the students in this special class. If they are ready to learn, we should do ok. But if they are not, they will fall out pretty fast. With as much info as we have to cover in such a small time frame, I can see home work in the form of reading and question just about everynight so they are ready to move on the next day. Unlike the regular students who go thru a two year program, these students have a semester to learn an awful lot.

[timebuilder]

First, stop by a flight school and pick up a copy of the "Fundamentals of Instruction" book put out by Gleim. You can probably find it online, too. It is the best way for someone to gain insights into how students learn. There are also videos and DVDs used to train pilots to become instructors that are very valuable.

Second, there are two parts to instruction. The first is where the lesson is "taught," as in explained by lecture, question and answer, and a written test. Then, there is the practical portion, where you have a specific challenge set up and the student attempts to meet that challenge.

For example, in the classroom, you teach that HVAC is essentially "how to move heat," and you discuss how to move air (fans) and how to change its temperature (coils) you show pictures, answer questions, maybe teach a couple of fan laws, etc. Then, you go to a working unit, and feel that heat coming off the condenser fan, atc. Be creative. Make it REAL.

One of the best ways to get material to "stick" is to use humor. Many people are afraid of this. However, humor and a sense of enjoyment are the best ways to penetrate an impenetrable mind and cause learning to occur.

Learning is defined as a "change in behavior," because it is the behavior of the student that is the final evidence that learning (and not memorizing) has actually occurred.

[HVAC Teacher]

My first method is to observe the newcomer. Are they really interested in the trade?
Then let them get their hands dirty.

To the newcomer: anticipate the next move. I shouldn't have to tell them to get the ladder, extension cord, torch or whatever ........

DON'T STAND AROUND WITH YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS, WAITING TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO!

If the job is turning into a mess -clean it up! If it's dark, go get a light! .........
IT'S NOT BENEATH YOU!

Once I can work with you, I will show you all I can.

[surenuff]

First, stop by a flight school and pick up a copy of the "Fundamentals of Instruction" book put out by Gleim. You can probably find it online, too. It is the best way for someone to gain insights into how students learn. There are also videos and DVDs used to train pilots to become instructors that are very valuable.

Second, there are two parts to instruction. The first is where the lesson is "taught," as in explained by lecture, question and answer, and a written test. Then, there is the practical portion, where you have a specific challenge set up and the student attempts to meet that challenge.

For example, in the classroom, you teach that HVAC is essentially "how to move heat," and you discuss how to move air (fans) and how to change its temperature (coils) you show pictures, answer questions, maybe teach a couple of fan laws, etc. Then, you go to a working unit, and feel that heat coming off the condenser fan, atc. Be creative. Make it REAL.

One of the best ways to get material to "stick" is to use humor. Many people are afraid of this. However, humor and a sense of enjoyment are the best ways to penetrate an impenetrable mind and cause learning to occur.

Learning is defined as a "change in behavior," because it is the behavior of the student that is the final evidence that learning (and not memorizing) has actually occurred.

The students in the regular classes. take fundamentals of refrigeration and electricity for HVAC/R. Then they go to residential refrigeration, heat pumps, advanced a/c and refrigeration controls, etc. etc. until they get to a/c system design and duct design. I have just started mixing up the lecture time and class room instruction with interactive computor/internet webtutor, and the like. Our tests, quiz, homework, review questions and all are now on the computor thru BlackBoard. The class each night is half lecture/class time, the other half is Lab. We have a really good success rate in these classes, but I have them for a year and a half more than the class i am going to do in the Fall, which will only be for sixteen weeks. The only saving grace i can see is the fact that since they leave each day at 5:00, and are only going to be in the class one semester, I can send them home with homework each night even if it is just to read the next days material so they are up on it enough to understand what information I rant off. The normal evening classes start at 6:00, and I try hard not to send them home with homework since we do not leave until 11:00

[surenuff]

I have appreciated all of the posts. In my company, I do most of the diagnostics(oldest son 21yrs old is getting pretty sharp at it), and the hands do most of the work. This makes them learn more and retain it better. I used to be really bad about trusting anyone to do it the way I wanted it done.(I got that from my father) We do pretty good in the class, but I have a lot of time with those students. My biggest challenge in this new class is going to be putting out so much information and getting them to retain it at a very high level. We use power points, dvd's, even old slide shows, simulators in the computor lab, good text books with all of the eResources that go with it, My superior/amazing/very knowledgable/intertaining/ear pleasing voice lecturing. Seriously, we have about three different ways that each bit of information is presented in the class. We have a lab full of projects and each portion of the class has a lab that goes along with it. Like I said, my challenge is to get them to learn fast, and not be "Function Trained" but actually "get it". We also use Simutech air, heat pump, market, and commercial refrigeration, gas and electric heat. Also Catrax R, and E. I am going to throw another curve into the ball game, I am going to use a different textbook than the one we use for our other classes. I am going to use the new text by AHRI Fundamentals of HVAC/R and the accompanying MyHvacLab pegusus access card and web based course cartridge for it. You did not know I was crazy did ya?!.()*&^$

[smokies]

My hardest challenge coming up in the trade was being someone who thought they knew it and not listening to the experienced people I worked with. I think the greatest change I ever made was to start listening to them and understand that they are trying to help me. Some folks have the ability to listen and learn. Some think they don't need to. The greatest techs, the ones who know what they don't know, listen and always learn. This trade takes a life time to master. Then at the end, you realize you have so much more to learn. I have been in this trade for almost 20 yrs and I am going back to school to learn more.

It's about more than being good. There are alot of good techs, but if a guy wants to really make it and be special, they will never ever stop learning. Learning is something we all do every day whether we want to or not.

On another side of the coins. I learned as much of the right way to do things from the good guys, as I learned from the bad techs doing it wrong. I can name the guys that didn't show up on time, left early, missed diagnosed a problem, and just didn't apply themselves. Learning the way to not do something helped just as much as watching it be done right. I think you have to be able to take the good and bad and make yourself the best you can be with your integrity in tact. We all have to be able to sleep knowing we did the best we could while being honest and not just trying to make a dime.

[Paul Bee]

I read a book back in the mid-seventies called The wisdom of Kung-Fu. It talked about the attitude of the student and the tests and trials the monks put the learners through. Sweeping the shop floor is not about keeping the shop clean, It is about clearing the cobwebs and PRIDE and MACHO attitude from the mind. A humble person is ready to learn. The best learning tool I ever picked up was that broom in the back of the shop. Until I made up my mind that I wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I wasn't ready to learn. Like everything in life, it's not about the destination, it's about the JOURNEY. ENJOY THE RIDE!!

[HVAC Teacher]

20 years+ in the trade & I'm still not a afraid to grab a broom (pays the same).
A journeyman once told me a customer may not know if the equipment is working properly, but they know a mess when they see it.

I was once sent out to help with a motor (large) changeout when I was new. Partner wasn't there yet so I cleared the area set up some lighting and pulled out what rigging equipment I had. He kept me busy the rest of the year.

I helped out our boiler changeout team on jobs doing what most would call crap work. Setting ladders, cleanup, running parts and second guessing what they would need.They would only have me on their jobs & I learned things you would not believe! (I didn't know you could weld cast iron!).

While the other new techs were sitting at home, I was backlogged. Dispatcher informed my boss & called me in to figure it out. I said I was just doing my job & left.

"If you are not 15 minutes early- you are late!" my foreman always said.

I tried this approach when I became a foreman & all I got was attitude & hurt feelings.

[dalec]

wow there can no end to good advice with this question.

when i was starting out my method was to ask the dispatcher where, with
who and what i would be doing the next day. and that evening i would get
out the textbooks and read up on the equipment i thought i would encounter.

my advice to the apprentices i worked with was to read at least half an hour
a day, not necessarily study but read. whether it was from a trade mag or
text book. its astounding that i worked with a couple of apprentices that
were going into their final year of school and neither of them had touched a
book in preparation.

once had a crew meeting, one of the issues is the apprentices thought they
weren't being trained enough by the company, felt they were just cheap
labour. boy i was surprised with the 'deer in the headlight' look on one of
youngins when i asked what he was doing to train himself. he didn't answer.
had to explain to him that he has no idea how good they have it these days,
especially with the smart phones available, google is my friend. this site is a perfect example. hey get stuck on a job or puzzled by a system...get online!

so to make a long answer short, if you think this is just a job...move on
this is a career and the learning never stops. otherwise it would get boring

[timebuilder]

I read a book back in the mid-seventies called The wisdom of Kung-Fu. It talked about the attitude of the student and the tests and trials the monks put the learners through. Sweeping the shop floor is not about keeping the shop clean, It is about clearing the cobwebs and PRIDE and MACHO attitude from the mind. A humble person is ready to learn. The best learning tool I ever picked up was that broom in the back of the shop. Until I made up my mind that I wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I wasn't ready to learn. Like everything in life, it's not about the destination, it's about the JOURNEY. ENJOY THE RIDE!!


Another good book that is similar in teaching is Bruce Lee's The Tao of Jeet Kune Do.

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Jeet-Kune-Bruce-Lee/dp/0897500482

.

[Paul Bee]

Thanks Timebuilder I will check that out.

[pringlel]

I read a book back in the mid-seventies called The wisdom of Kung-Fu. It talked about the attitude of the student and the tests and trials the monks put the learners through. Sweeping the shop floor is not about keeping the shop clean, It is about clearing the cobwebs and PRIDE and MACHO attitude from the mind. A humble person is ready to learn. The best learning tool I ever picked up was that broom in the back of the shop. Until I made up my mind that I wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I wasn't ready to learn. Like everything in life, it's not about the destination, it's about the JOURNEY. ENJOY THE RIDE!!

A lot of wisdom in your words sir :)
Those that are afraid to show someone what they dont know hinders there learning. We have all seen the person who is afraid to expose there weaknesses.
Little trick i learned that seems to work , I tell people up front that i am dumb as a box of rocks, then there is 0 expectations and i can free my mind to learn and explore without and worries of up holding some image. i have seen many a decent mechanics growth stop due to this. I try to pick at least one technical school a year for my own development, have to lead by example :)