Commercial Ice Machines and PM Help

[twilight]

We purchased a very badly maintained restaurant over a year ago. Most of the equipment is very old, and our ice machine is down. We called a repair tech who says that he believes the compressor is out (we didn't know he could not service our brand). I called the company who he says exclusively service IceOMatic and he says that to repair the unit would be approx $1100-1200. We can purchase a new unit for just a little over that, so that is what we have decided to do, as we have been told this unit we have is very old and it's never worked very well.

I have three questions....

1. Which brand of small undercounter ice machines would you recommend based on their reliability and ease of maintenance?

2. Where can I find a good reference guide on when and how to do PM on refrigeration units (I guess what and when are the better questions)...I guess what I'm asking is are their PM things we can do to extend the life and quality of these units or does it all need to be done by a professional? Please, don't make fun...we are new at this and we're just trying to learn how to do things right.

3. How do I go about finding someone good who knows what they're doing and who will help us to keep our equipment in good shape?

Thanks in advance for your help. I've read lots of your posts here and you seem to be a group of very knowledgeable people. I wish some of you were in Portland, OR area.

[baub]

1) Hoshizaki or Manitowac would be my choice. Stay away from Ice-o-matic, Scotsman and any oddball brand. If you have the space, try to install a free standing unit on a bin. Much easier to clean and service. Something like this, http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/machine.asp?series=KM-320M&itemClass=Cuber

2) You will get some instructions in the installation and service manual that comes with the machine. Make sure your install guy leaves it with you. The best way is to get a good ice machine tech to show you how to take everything apart, clean it and re-assemble it. This might take 3+ hours, depending upon how dirty the machine is, and how many questions you ask. Use a digital camera to document the procedure... since you may only clean your machine every 3-6 months, the memory will fade.

3) Ask around the restaurant community for someone they are happy with. If you find a tech you like, request him, if possible. To get that to happen, don't whine and ***** about business, your equipment, and how much service costs. Be pleasant, maybe offer a coffee or a soft drink. Most important, pay the bill according to the terms.

Addendum- If a tech says he "thinks "the compressor is bad", RUN AWAY! It is, or it isn't, and he should know. If a company exclusively services Ice-O-Matic, keep running.

Good luck, you are in a tough business.

[sapper]

I agree about the Hoshi or the Manitowoc. The Hoshi's don't typicaly break down that often, of course with good pm they shouldn't. The Manitowoc's have 2 things that I like as a technician, servicability and they are made in america. So if you ask me I would tell you Manitowoc, but Hoshi's are good to.

[baub]

The Manitowoc's have 2 things that I like as a technician, servicability and they are made in america.

The undercounter Manitowacs have been built in China for a number of years.

[sapper]

Really, I didn't know that. I guess it doesn't surprise me though.

[coolerfixer]

The #1 problem with ALL brands of icemakers is water. Get the absolute best icemaking water filtration system, and then change the filters! Clean the machine fanatically on a bi monthly basis and your machine will live a long life. I personally would never recommend an undercounter machine. The initial savings over a larger capacity modular bin and head unit are not worth it. As far as contractors go, I know there are a couple of guys on here from the Portland area. Oh, and brand wise, Manitowoc.

[iraqveteran]

I prefer the Hoshi.

Simply put, the fail less if maintained and run off of water level as compared to the notorious Mani Ice Thickness Probe which will no doubt start screwing up on a weekend.

As far as maintainance goes, your best bet would be to find a good contractor and go from there. We PM every piece of gear on a monthly basis. So once a month we are there.....sometimes just to change a filter and check hardware but its still good to be looked at monthly. And then every 6 months coils get clean etc.etc...

To find the better contractors in your area, you got 2 options. 1st is word of mouth. Find out who everyone else uses and go from there. Or you can call some manufacturers of the equipment you own and ask them their opinions.


We just picked up a new customer last week. She owns a Biker Bar that fairly new. She's had this one contractor out 3 times for a reach-in cooler problem. Every trip, they replaced the temp. sensor and finally tried charging her for warranty work. She called the man. True....they said to call my company. Long story short, I had the problem fixed and the cooler up and running in 5 hours, not 5 weeks. Went back to re-check Friday, all wine coolers in reach-in at a cool 37°.

[iraqveteran]

Here you go. We did 3 service calls(all after hours) on this ice machine. Everytime, we told manager it needed to be cleaned badly to work properly. After the 3rd trip and a lot of wasted money, he finally agreed to let us clean it.

I cleaned it Friday. It took about 6 hours. Now its working great. And we will be starting his new monthly service contract in Oct.

Before:




http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1193.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1208.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1211.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1195.jpg



After:



http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1219.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1222.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1223.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1234.jpg




Proof is in the Puddin

[raidersfan7]

WOW GOOD JOB ON THOSE:cool: ICE MACHINESSSSSSS

[iraqveteran]

WOW GOOD JOB ON THOSE:cool: ICE MACHINESSSSSSS

Thanks. Some of the crap wouldn't come off the plastic......


But it sure looks a hell of a lot better. And now making ice like no-ones business. I've got it set. The 2 heads are harvestin good clean full ice within 30 seconds of each other.

[Wheelbaron]

nice job

[intellitech]

I may not be the most experienced refrigeration tech in existence....but can tell you this.....I work for a company that is a Manitowoc Factory Service Representative. Some say Hoshizaki's are the best....based on my experience I cannot possibly agree with that. A properly maintained Manitowoc is easy to service, offers the best technical support staff for field techs who need assistance (their service handbooks are thorough and contain everything one needs to know) and simple in design.

After all, Manitowoc has around 45% of the market share for commercial ice machines....and that figure came from one of Manitowoc's Regional Service Managers.

[mcr]

The #1 problem with ALL brands of icemakers is water. Get the absolute best icemaking water filtration system, and then change the filters! Clean the machine fanatically on a bi monthly basis and your machine will live a long life. I personally would never recommend an undercounter machine. The initial savings over a larger capacity modular bin and head unit are not worth it. As far as contractors go, I know there are a couple of guys on here from the Portland area. Oh, and brand wise, Manitowoc.
LOL! We recently got a new small Hoshi cuber for a new admission wing at our hospital. New boss was a fanatic about the drain set up/airgap ect. Didn't include any filtration set up in the job. When I asked why he said "filters don't do anything for an ice machine." Then I showed him a rust colored filter the next day from another wing. OOPPS!!:)

[QTEMP]

I may not be the most experienced refrigeration tech in existence....but can tell you this.....I work for a company that is a Manitowoc Factory Service Representative. Some say Hoshizaki's are the best....based on my experience I cannot possibly agree with that. A properly maintained Manitowoc is easy to service, offers the best technical support staff for field techs who need assistance (their service handbooks are thorough and contain everything one needs to know) and simple in design.

After all, Manitowoc has around 45% of the market share for commercial ice machines....and that figure came from one of Manitowoc's Regional Service Managers.

Conisder yourself lucky then.......that's hasd not benn my experience...quite the contrary.......

[QTEMP]

Here you go. We did 3 service calls(all after hours) on this ice machine. Everytime, we told manager it needed to be cleaned badly to work properly. After the 3rd trip and a lot of wasted money, he finally agreed to let us clean it.

I cleaned it Friday. It took about 6 hours. Now its working great. And we will be starting his new monthly service contract in Oct.

Before:




http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1193.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1208.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1211.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1195.jpg



After:



http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1219.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1222.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1223.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1234.jpg




Proof is in the Puddin

Chances are this is a bakery concept of somekind...you have an airbourne yeast problem....I recommend an AUCS system with a bottle of sanitizer to kill the mold spores since ice machine cleaner will not kill or clean the unit correctly. Nice job on cleaning....if it ain't clean...you can't fix it!!!

[QTEMP]

1) Hoshizaki or Manitowac would be my choice. Stay away from Ice-o-matic, Scotsman and any oddball brand. If you have the space, try to install a free standing unit on a bin. Much easier to clean and service. Something like this, http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/machine.asp?series=KM-320M&itemClass=Cuber

2) You will get some instructions in the installation and service manual that comes with the machine. Make sure your install guy leaves it with you. The best way is to get a good ice machine tech to show you how to take everything apart, clean it and re-assemble it. This might take 3+ hours, depending upon how dirty the machine is, and how many questions you ask. Use a digital camera to document the procedure... since you may only clean your machine every 3-6 months, the memory will fade.

3) Ask around the restaurant community for someone they are happy with. If you find a tech you like, request him, if possible. To get that to happen, don't whine and ***** about business, your equipment, and how much service costs. Be pleasant, maybe offer a coffee or a soft drink. Most important, pay the bill according to the terms.

Addendum- If a tech says he "thinks "the compressor is bad", RUN AWAY! It is, or it isn't, and he should know. If a company exclusively services Ice-O-Matic, keep running.

Good luck, you are in a tough business.

Iceomatic are terrific people to deal with and admit they make mistakes and try to make it right. I would put a single evap Icematic up against any other brands nowadays. Manitowocs undercounter machine is a piece of garbage and so is the rest of their models....have gone down hill way too fast. The best machine on the market today is a Hoshi, period. Iceomatic has learned some lessons....buy and install (good luck on that) a CVD and see how long it takes to lose a customer. I do however, agree with the rest of your comments...you obviously know your business.

[deejer28]

isnt it amazing the creatures we find creating small communities in thes sumps hoses etc... I have worked on them all and I dont like ice o matic at all. you cant service without pulling the bin out really dumb.. the hoshis seem really nice .. I dont have to work on them very often and the tech support is fantastic, they can talk you through any problem....... I found it strange your tech "thought " it was your compressor that was blown.... these machines are some of the most difficult pieces in the restaurant world to work on but a compressor gone is a compressor gone.... good luck next cuber i need cleaned Ill give you a call..... good work. cheers

[QTEMP]

isnt it amazing the creatures we find creating small communities in thes sumps hoses etc... I have worked on them all and I dont like ice o matic at all. you cant service without pulling the bin out really dumb.. the hoshis seem really nice .. I dont have to work on them very often and the tech support is fantastic, they can talk you through any problem....... I found it strange your tech "thought " it was your compressor that was blown.... these machines are some of the most difficult pieces in the restaurant world to work on but a compressor gone is a compressor gone.... good luck next cuber i need cleaned Ill give you a call..... good work. cheers

Yes, the Iceomatic is a dumb design for the bin removal....yes, Yuck! on water sumps.........the Hoshi and Manitowoc are a much better design in that respect

[thermofridge]

I'm just curious guys, why is it that nobody likes a Scotsman? We sell and lease ice machines and it's probably an even split between Manitowoc and Scotsman with the occasional Hoshi or Ice-O-matic. Of course, there are problems with all of them, but if properly maintained, they are all pretty good machines. I would even venture to say that if anything, I have seen a few more problems with the newer Manitowocs than any other brand.

[nick muniz]

isnt it amazing the creatures we find creating small communities in thes sumps hoses etc... I have worked on them all and I dont like ice o matic at all. you cant service without pulling the bin out really dumb.. the hoshis seem really nice .. I dont have to work on them very often and the tech support is fantastic, they can talk you through any problem....... I found it strange your tech "thought " it was your compressor that was blown.... these machines are some of the most difficult pieces in the restaurant world to work on but a compressor gone is a compressor gone.... good luck next cuber i need cleaned Ill give you a call..... good work. cheers

DID YOU SAY CRAP-O-MATIC?

[north10]

I guess we are realy lucky. We have 8 Scotsman machines at our property and they just keep going. We had solenoids fail on 3 of 5 CM250 machines within 2 weeks of one another but, other than that, nothing. Just gotta keep them spic and span. That is the biggest thing to keep any machine running.

[73Stingray]

Finally a topic I can comment on, since I am just a rookie in the hvac area...But most of my short experience was working for a commercial food service repair company...So I have actually done cleaning on hoshi's..and that green/black stuff that you find in ice machines is totally gross!!! I cringe every time I get ice in a restaurant. Even after cleaning them some of the stuff still shows on the tubing and plastics and will not come off. I feel sorry for the ppl in the nursing homes and hospitals that have no choice but to consume this stuff constantly.

[mccann]

We see a lot of machines that are only cleaned when they break.
What do you guys do when you need to clean a black slime covered unit, the bin is 3/4 full of ice, they are too busy and have no place to put the ice. I hate to just put trash bags over the ice because I feel like it still gets goop on it. I don't do ice machines that much.

[thermofridge]

To do a proper cleaning, you must remove all of the ice from the bin. We even go as far as installing a faucet (usually a boiler drain valve) in a nearby hot water line if there is no hot water tap nearby. You cant clean without hot water. The bin and ice head must be sanitized after cleaning also.

[mccann]

Thanks, I knew it seemed wrong not to remove the ice. Beware getting a drink with ice around here. I doubt many of the little crap restaurants or liquor stores pay or take the time. There is definitely an opportunity for some professionalism in the wild wild West. Although we can find a little training by vendors, actual procedures that must be followed or how to tell the restaurant owner are not communicated in anyway.
How do you deal with an ice machine on top of soda dispensers in a busy convenience store?

[Biblepoet]

I have gone as far as to relace the nasty stained plastic parts. They are fairly inexpensive. The machine now looks as clean as it really is. Saves a lot of headache when the custome asks why the hoses still looks nasty after you have cleaned it.

[coolingitrite]

Here you go. We did 3 service calls(all after hours) on this ice machine. Everytime, we told manager it needed to be cleaned badly to work properly. After the 3rd trip and a lot of wasted money, he finally agreed to let us clean it.

I cleaned it Friday. It took about 6 hours. Now its working great. And we will be starting his new monthly service contract in Oct.

Before:




http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1193.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1208.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1211.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1195.jpg



After:



http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1219.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1222.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1223.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1234.jpg



Proof is in the Puddin

nice. i like the after pics, but hey, maybe you unknowigly just clened out the cure fior cancer out of that machine.

this field has always been great for my weight. i lose my appetite on average at least 5 times a day

as far as mani or hoshi. undercounter i liker the manitowoc better. jmo as far as the larger units for service i like hoshi for cleaning i like mani except i've seen more grid seperation from the evap plate on the manitowocs and only seen two hoshis where the evap had to be relaced because the plate seperated from the coils

[mike robinson]

I have worked on all of the ones everyone on here have mention all of them have there pro and cons biggest problem I think most people have are that they get use to working on a certain brand and this makes it alot better . They all pretty much have the same parts inside of them just a different warapper.

[coolingitrite]

I have worked on all of the ones everyone on here have mention all of them have there pro and cons biggest problem I think most people have are that they get use to working on a certain brand and this makes it alot better . They all pretty much have the same parts inside of them just a different warapper.


thats true but i got to say, i am no big fan of cornelius. jmo

[kitchenfixer]

Here you go. We did 3 service calls(all after hours) on this ice machine. Everytime, we told manager it needed to be cleaned badly to work properly. After the 3rd trip and a lot of wasted money, he finally agreed to let us clean it.

I cleaned it Friday. It took about 6 hours. Now its working great. And we will be starting his new monthly service contract in Oct.

Before:




http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1193.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1208.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1211.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1195.jpg



After:



http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1219.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1222.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1223.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk156/iraqveteran0405/Ice%20Machines/102_1234.jpg




Proof is in the Puddin

I've got several ice machines here at the district (all different brands). The only one I like is our big water cooled Manitowoc here at the maintenance yard...as long as I keep it clean and replace the filters, it "runs like a Deere".
AND BESIDES, IF I DON'T, I HAVE TO ANSWER TO A BUNCH OF P***** OFF GUYS ABOUT CRAPPY TASTING ICE....NO THANKS.

[smittyii]

I have worked on all of the ones everyone on here have mention all of them have there pro and cons biggest problem I think most people have are that they get use to working on a certain brand and this makes it alot better . They all pretty much have the same parts inside of them just a different warapper.

have you seen the scotsman that has a board in it that will shut the unit down remotely if you don't make your payment? now thats innovation!:D

[thermofridge]

Now thats innovation. We have a bunch of machines leased and are always out breakin legs to collect.