For all the people thinking Iraq was a mistake

[BigJon3475]

The stuff the main stream media and the left don't want you to see:

http://www.iraqdevelopmentprogram.org/idp/news/newarc144.htm
http://www.iraqdevelopmentprogram.org/idp/news/news.htm

[The Doctor]

How about instead of this headline -- Iraq's Finance Ministry wants to raise its budget for this year by 44 per cent to a record $70 billion, cashing in on record oil prices to rebuild shattered infrastructure, the government's spokesman said yesterday, we see this headline:

Amid record oil prices, Iraq's gov't spokesman said yesterday that Iraq is actually going to pay their liberators back...

At least you could put some commentary in the post to minimize the spam. Otherwise, you could change your name to global cowboy.

You could wave a U.S. flag or mention God or Israel so the sheeple just keep on believing in the war on terror.

[acmanko]

The plan for Iraq after the Regime change was to use its oil to rebuild.

[BigJon3475]

How about instead of this headline -- Iraq's Finance Ministry wants to raise its budget for this year by 44 per cent to a record $70 billion, cashing in on record oil prices to rebuild shattered infrastructure, the government's spokesman said yesterday, we see this headline:

Amid record oil prices, Iraq's gov't spokesman said yesterday that Iraq is actually going to pay their liberators back...

At least you could put some commentary in the post to minimize the spam. Otherwise, you could change your name to global cowboy.

You could wave a U.S. flag or mention God or Israel so the sheeple just keep on believing in the war on terror.


yeah yeah yeah I'm a spammer.....

[BigJon3475]

The plan for Iraq after the Regime change was to use its oil to rebuild.There is a story in the archives showing just that...

[DaveLennox1]

"Democrats have blasted the Republican administration for squandering budget surpluses and nearly doubling the national debt, from $5.6 trillion when Bush took office in 2001 to over $9.5 trillion now. "

"President Bush has mortgaged our future with record deficit spending on the wrong priorities," Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. "An unnecessary and extraordinarily costly war in Iraq has turned record surpluses into record deficits."


Oh yeah............3000 + service men and women dead and a debt that will never be paid off...............yep it was worth it....................:rolleyes:

[tunnel_rat]

"Democrats have blasted the Republican administration for squandering budget surpluses and nearly doubling the national debt, from $5.6 trillion when Bush took office in 2001 to over $9.5 trillion now. "

"President Bush has mortgaged our future with record deficit spending on the wrong priorities," Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. "An unnecessary and extraordinarily costly war in Iraq has turned record surpluses into record deficits."


Oh yeah............3000 + service men and women dead and a debt that will never be paid off...............yep it was worth it....................:rolleyes:

OK, I'll bite...........

:D:D:D.................LMAO.......Good one dude.

And you're gonna quote Nancy Lugosi?? :D WOW...........:D

[sline-dawg]

" from $5.6 trillion when Bush took office in 2001 to over $9.5 trillion now. "

.:rolleyes:



Hell of a surplus there.......;)

[trane]

Ask someone that lost their son, daughter, dad, or mother if they think anything on those pages was worth it.

I would blow that country to hell in a heartbeat before I would let one American soldier die for anything listed there. The only mistake made is how we are going about it.

[crackertech]

"Democrats have blasted the Republican administration for squandering budget surpluses and nearly doubling the national debt, from $5.6 trillion when Bush took office in 2001 to over $9.5 trillion now. "

"President Bush has mortgaged our future with record deficit spending on the wrong priorities," Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. "An unnecessary and extraordinarily costly war in Iraq has turned record surpluses into record deficits."


Oh yeah............3000 + service men and women dead and a debt that will never be paid off...............yep it was worth it....................:rolleyes:

Well at least we know who you are backing in Nov and that's sad. The Dem's have done nothing sense they took over.Do I agree with everything W has done he!! no but it's still better than what OB will bring us.

[desto1]

"Democrats have blasted the Republican administration for squandering budget surpluses and nearly doubling the national debt, from $5.6 trillion when Bush took office in 2001 to over $9.5 trillion now. "

"President Bush has mortgaged our future with record deficit spending on the wrong priorities," Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. "An unnecessary and extraordinarily costly war in Iraq has turned record surpluses into record deficits."


Oh yeah............3000 + service men and women dead and a debt that will never be paid off...............yep it was worth it....................:rolleyes:
bush has done only what that democrat controlled congress has let him get away with.dems and repubs are all both the same thing,,,, criminals

[iraqveteran]

Wow.....

a bunch of mislead minds here.....


That is all. Carry on

[ga-hvac-tech]

Lessee, in 2006, the American public elected a Democratic Congress, the public wanted 'change'... so what has happened in the last 2 years:

1) Oil went through the roof, and gas with it
2) A housing crises
3) A credit crises
4) A pending recession (if we are not already there)
5) Unemployment is up
6) The news media is lieing to the public (again)... well, this is nothing new when they have a darling candidate
7) President Bush enjoys an approval rating in the high teens... the democratic congress approval rating is in single digits...

Hey, we got CHANGE!!!

Now I ask you a question: how much more change do you want???

[The Doctor]

yeah yeah yeah I'm a spammer.....

BigJon, I'm just messing with you...

Now this guy with the O'Bama ads all over his posts is SPAM and proud of it. :D

Me, I'm a scorched earth man myself. But we're way past that option now...

[The Doctor]

Wow.....

a bunch of mislead minds here.....


That is all. Carry on

Carry on global cowboy. The democratic capitalism of Woody Wilson calls you...
I must say, of every man and woman in the armed services I meet, about every other one is for the manifest destiny.

Of course, that means that every other one is NOT for pouring our tax dollars down the drain in these optional wars.

Kool-Aid must come in at least two flavors. Yours and mine

[iraqveteran]

Carry on global cowboy. The democratic capitalism of Woody Wilson calls you...
I must say, of every man and woman in the armed services I meet, about every other one is for the manifest destiny.

Of course, that means that every other one is NOT for pouring our tax dollars down the drain in these optional wars.

Kool-Aid must come in at least two flavors. Yours and mine

I aint into all the politics and crazy drama that comes with it.



I have my views. I support the war effort 100%. But thats mainly due to my backround.


I have been there. 2 tours back to back. I lost my cousin when he was shot down near Tikrit just before I deployed. And my room-mate was seriously wounded when a suicide bomber drove a carbomb into his truck. Thank god my room-mate survived, although permantly screwed up for the rest of his life.


I have been in combat, and seen it all. Now if you are asking whether we should be there, my answer is a simple yes. We accomplished mission number 1....get rid of Saddam. And we are well on our way to accomplish mission number 2 which is to help and assist the Iraqi people in rebuilding a government and control their own people.



People need to realize that not only are we standing up for ourselves and others, we are fighting a war on terrorists in a country with a severe religious backround. Their religion teaches and preaches on the death and destruction of the infidels (anyone not muslim). But their country is also in the middle of a civil war.....


We are deployed to a combat enviroment where the locals are not only fighting themselves but are teaming up to fight us. We are attempting to locate the few bad apples out of the orchird. I wish is was as simply as the days of WWII.....just shake and bake the entire county and be done with it. But its not that simple with NATO and the Geneva Convention. So there is a lot of red tape that needs to be outlined and strictly adhered to in order for us to preserve our wonderful FREE way of life here as we know it.....


And I will conclude with a simple quote. On that may not mean much to you or the next person, but it means the world to me. I fully understand the concept and meaning of it. And its a meaning that not all will follow....







"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC

[BigJon3475]

The facts are Sadaam wanted more control over the oil in the ME. Iran looking to move to nuclear power would need less of it's own oil that get's sent out to refineries and they have to buy it back. They would then lower their output increasing the prices every more. The Chinese signed agreed with mide east countries for a me first clause. Meaning in a time of crisis they get oil reserves first. The Bush Aadmin. wanted it to be a more free market economy where money talks and bs walks. This would give quicker response to oil needs than the gov. run programs could provide now because they would be able to focus more on profits without the beauracracy and polotics so involved.

[BigJon3475]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDoHZ0hVUY

Just as strong (our army is 500,000 strong)
Just as funded (we spend 439 billion a year on our military)



The budget alone for it makes the mideast wars looking like gumball change.


Let's get into UHC.....Checking with most other countries UHC cost them anythere from 45-55% in federal taxes.


He want's to bring up 3rd world countries with aid....to the tune of 845 billion.


ect...ect...ect

[The Doctor]

I aint into all the politics and crazy drama that comes with it.



I have my views. I support the war effort 100%. But thats mainly due to my backround.


I have been there. 2 tours back to back. I lost my cousin when he was shot down near Tikrit just before I deployed. And my room-mate was seriously wounded when a suicide bomber drove a carbomb into his truck. Thank god my room-mate survived, although permantly screwed up for the rest of his life.


I have been in combat, and seen it all. Now if you are asking whether we should be there, my answer is a simple yes. We accomplished mission number 1....get rid of Saddam. And we are well on our way to accomplish mission number 2 which is to help and assist the Iraqi people in rebuilding a government and control their own people.



People need to realize that not only are we standing up for ourselves and others, we are fighting a war on terrorists in a country with a severe religious backround. Their religion teaches and preaches on the death and destruction of the infidels (anyone not muslim). But their country is also in the middle of a civil war.....


We are deployed to a combat enviroment where the locals are not only fighting themselves but are teaming up to fight us. We are attempting to locate the few bad apples out of the orchird. I wish is was as simply as the days of WWII.....just shake and bake the entire county and be done with it. But its not that simple with NATO and the Geneva Convention. So there is a lot of red tape that needs to be outlined and strictly adhered to in order for us to preserve our wonderful FREE way of life here as we know it..... There is something inescapable about scorched earth, as it were. If you cause enough of an enemy's citizens to rise up against their own leaders because they are seeing their own people vaporized and they give up, and they insist en masse that they give up, and they all start waving white flags, or waving the heads of their former belligerent leaders, THEN WE WIN. Otherwise, we continue the millenia-long war between Islam and all others. Actually, until we vaporize enough of them in a very short timeframe, then we only give them fuel for their fire.

And I will conclude with a simple quote. On that may not mean much to you or the next person, but it means the world to me. I fully understand the concept and meaning of it. And its a meaning that not all will follow....


"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!" -LT. GEN. LEWIS "CHESTY" PULLER, USMC
This is another way of saying "To the victors go the spoils." That ought to be a sobering quote, if someone would take the time to think about it.

[ga-hvac-tech]

This is another way of saying "To the victors go the spoils." That ought to be a sobering quote, if someone would take the time to think about it.

Hmmm, In all my studies of history (both military and non-military), I have never found a situation where it was different... Maybe that is just the way things are... And perhaps we in the USA are about to consider electing a president that is not in touch with 'the way things are'??? :eek:

Seems to me the last time we did that (1976), we ended up with a real mess that someone who DID understand the way things are (1980) had to clean up.

[acmanko]

The Usof A changed all that. George Washington was the first General in History that did notjust take power with his army. Then again after WW2, to the victor went the bill for rebuilding Europe and Asia's bombed cities.
thats's what makes us different.

[ga-hvac-tech]

The Usof A changed all that. George Washington was the first General in History that did notjust take power with his army. Then again after WW2, to the victor went the bill for rebuilding Europe and Asia's bombed cities.
thats's what makes us different.

Yes, those things are true!

But there are other spoils IMO:

In the case of the first Prez of the USA, we got our free country.

In the case of WW2, the US$ (our currency) is the reserve currency of the world. And since the USA seems to 'create' $$$ out of thin air, then we get to pay off our national debt with $$$ we 'create'. NO other country in the world can do that... so in a sense, we have the spoils of being 'semi in control of the world's economy' as long as the US$ remains the reserve currency of the world.

It is my opinion that part of why the Iraq war was fought is to keep oil trading in US$; one of many ways to keep the US$ the reserve currency of the world...

I think if we want to discuss the economics of currencies and international trade, we probably should start another thread.

But back on the subject: Show me a country in the world that has militarily conquered another, and the spoils of war do not go to the winner???

Seriously, if there is one I would like to read about it... I must have missed that in my studies of history and would like to figure out what TPTB were thinking and what/why they did what they did. It just seems so totally different from the way humans have behaved over most all time... :confused:

[iraqveteran]

There is something inescapable about scorched earth, as it were. If you cause enough of an enemy's citizens to rise up against their own leaders because they are seeing their own people vaporized and they give up, and they insist en masse that they give up, and they all start waving white flags, or waving the heads of their former belligerent leaders, THEN WE WIN. Otherwise, we continue the millenia-long war between Islam and all others. Actually, until we vaporize enough of them in a very short timeframe, then we only give them fuel for their fire.


This world has been at war since biblical times. Granted, not all wars fought are on the battlefield but we are ALWAYS at war with somebody or something.

If we pull out, give up, or woulda never went in.....it would have made this great country look weak in the eyes of the world.

But we are there. We are kickin ass day in and day out. Whats the point of a military if your never gonna use it???




The average people don't even recognize the military nor pay attention to it until they need it. Thats a fact. If we weren't at war, would you honestly walk up and shake the hand of a serviceman in uniform??? Probably not. But now that we are at war, those that serve are noticed and recognized.

This country is headed to hell. And by protesting what we are doing, it just makes it worse. Yall voted for our president, yall voted congress, yall voted for your local autorities and then want to insult them.....

We are only as strong as our weakest link. And right now our weakest link is the common everyday citizen. Does nothin but complain. And doesn't have the balls to stand up and do the right thing.

[ga-hvac-tech]

You know, there is one more thing about the military that I believe most folks (average citizens) forget: It is necessary for freedom!!!

It would be nice if we lived in a world where folks would just leave each other alone... but I think 911 made it clear that is not going to happen. :eek:

Generally, on the playground at grade school, the kid with the biggest stick was not picked on... but as soon as he laid down the stick and let his guard down... the bullies tried to take a shot at him to see what they could get away with... And the girls, they play similar catty games, just not quite as physical...

We need to have the biggest stick, or we will be pushed around by someone that has a bigger one... just the way things are.

And here goes a one sentence rant: If any politician preaches any doctrine that argues with the 'big stick' reality; they should be watched carefully, as they are not to be trusted!!!!! (rant off).

I think given the need for the USA to have the biggest stick, who to vote for this fall seems easy to me. :cool:

[Snapperhead]

I wish is was as simply as the days of WWII.....just shake and bake the entire county and be done with it. But its not that simple with NATO and the Geneva Convention. So there is a lot of red tape that needs to be outlined and strictly adhered to


long as the Political Correct Democrats are in office , our way of dealing with problems will forever be spineless , and many will die simply because of red tape forbidding him to use needed force.

[iraqveteran]

I know who I'm votin for. Easy to decide. Not a question in my mind.

[tunnel_rat]

You know, there is one more thing about the military that I believe most folks (average citizens) forget: It is necessary for freedom!!!

It would be nice if we lived in a world where folks would just leave each other alone... but I think 911 made it clear that is not going to happen. :eek:

Generally, on the playground at grade school, the kid with the biggest stick was not picked on... but as soon as he laid down the stick and let his guard down... the bullies tried to take a shot at him to see what they could get away with... And the girls, they play similar catty games, just not quite as physical...

We need to have the biggest stick, or we will be pushed around by someone that has a bigger one... just the way things are.

And here goes a one sentence rant: If any politician preaches any doctrine that argues with the 'big stick' reality; they should be watched carefully, as they are not to be trusted!!!!! (rant off).

I think given the need for the USA to have the biggest stick, who to vote for this fall seems easy to me. :cool:

It's no doubt that Somebody is gonna have the 'biggest stick'. I'd rather it was us....

[ga-hvac-tech]

It's no doubt that Somebody is gonna have the 'biggest stick'. I'd rather it was us....

Yeah, it makes for sleepin' easy that way... :D

Seriously, given the H*ll some countries go through, I sure would not like to be relegated to their status...

Here's to keeping the USA the ONLY superpower... :cool:

[iraqveteran]

Yeah, it makes for sleepin' easy that way... :D

Seriously, given the H*ll some countries go through, I sure would not like to be relegated to their status...

Here's to keeping the USA the ONLY superpower... :cool:

I'll drink to that.

I know why all the Iraqis are always angry.

Lets see....:rolleyes:

Women are for baby-makin...Men are for pleasure.

Typical 18 yo is married with at least 4 children and a few boyfriends

No alcohol in the dry country.

Prayer starts at 4 in the morning.


Theres more but I will keep with them for now. I know those alone would drive me to blow myself up too.

[glennac]

I'll drink to that.

I know why all the Iraqis are always angry.

Lets see....:rolleyes:

Women are for baby-makin...Men are for pleasure.

Typical 18 yo is married with at least 4 children and a few boyfriends

No alcohol in the dry country.

Prayer starts at 4 in the morning.


Theres more but I will keep with them for now. I know those alone would drive me to blow myself up too.

Hey iraqvet thanks for serving, need more like you. I believe that if you had to pray 5 times a day, go to the mosk every Friday and read all the hate nonbelievers stuff in the Koran, you would become a brain washed zombie.

[The Doctor]

This world has been at war since biblical times. Granted, not all wars fought are on the battlefield but we are ALWAYS at war with somebody or something.

If we pull out, give up, or woulda never went in.....it would have made this great country look weak in the eyes of the world.

But we are there. We are kickin ass day in and day out. Whats the point of a military if your never gonna use it???




The average people don't even recognize the military nor pay attention to it until they need it. Thats a fact. If we weren't at war, would you honestly walk up and shake the hand of a serviceman in uniform??? Probably not. But now that we are at war, those that serve are noticed and recognized.

This country is headed to hell. And by protesting what we are doing, it just makes it worse. Yall voted for our president, yall voted congress, yall voted for your local autorities and then want to insult them.....

We are only as strong as our weakest link. And right now our weakest link is the common everyday citizen. Does nothin but complain. And doesn't have the balls to stand up and do the right thing.

Doesn't history show that citizenry are known for tiring of military campaigns? So how's come we can't get shorter time frames on wars, instead of the "nation-building" ordeals that last for years, and as Europe and East Asia shows, lasts for decades?

I say when the determination for war is made, then pour the hottest ordinance on the area until the survivors are begging for mercy, but...hey, what do I know? :cool:

The common everyday citizen as the weakest link? Now the guy who's paying the bill is the weakest link? :rolleyes:
Remember, someone has to finance all this activity.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Doesn't history show that citizenry are known for tiring of military campaigns? So how's come we can't get shorter time frames on wars, instead of the "nation-building" ordeals that last for years, and as Europe and East Asia shows, lasts for decades?

I say when the determination for war is made, then pour the hottest ordinance on the area until the survivors are begging for mercy, but...hey, what do I know? :cool:

The common everyday citizen as the weakest link? Now the guy who's paying the bill is the weakest link? :rolleyes:
Remember, someone has to finance all this activity.

This is only my opinion, but here goes:

When Dwight Eisenhour left the presidency, one of the things he said was:

"Beware of the Military Industrial Complex"

So what does that mean???

As I understand it, it means a quasi-union between the military and the industrial part of business to run a never-ending R&D and manufacturing of military hardware. And IMO the politicians see this as a cash cow for election funds. It works like this:

Keep the public scared, so we 'need' more and more military... then promise contracts for R&D and manufacture of that military to whomever gives the most $$$ to your campaign.

Now here is the part that is controversial: How does one justify this without an enemy? Simple, create a perception of an enemy... and keep the public in fear.

But now we are about to step over the line to conspiracy theory, and that seems to be too much of a hot button for rational discussion (anywhere). Seems to me folks just do not want to cross over that line of thinking a government would really lie and cheat them at that level...

Hmmm, Corrupt governments... Lessee: What about the old Soviet Union (and now Putin's Russia), or maybe Robert Mugabe and Rhodesia, and lets not forget Saddam Hussein and Iraq... Or Muhammoh Abadinejad (sp), then there is Kim Jung Ill in N Korea... and has there ever been a democratic government in Pakistan that was not harboring terrorism??? Seems to me there are plenty of examples of corrupt governments...

Maybe its just too painful to admit our government might be partially corrupt and that I was deceived and my government got away with it???

My point is simple: NEVER trust a politician; and there is NO free lunch when a politician promises it. And while we are at it: If one wants to know what the real story is, follow the money (do some googling to see who profits). One will find out what is really going on when they look to see who profits.

On the other hand, as we have discussed: If the biggest stick has an advantage for safety and freedom, I would like to live in the country with the biggest stick... :D

I guess politics and freedom are not as simple as they appear??? :confused:

[DaveLennox1]

long as the Political Correct Democrats are in office , our way of dealing with problems will forever be spineless , and many will die simply because of red tape forbidding him to use needed force.


thats a crock..............they are keeping dubayu from killing 3000 more men and service women just so his oil intrest are protected.

[Snapperhead]

thats a crock..............the Democrats are keeping dubayu from killing 3000 more men and service women just so his oil intrest are protected.oh its only dubyas interest in oil now huh . What did you drive to work this week , a skate board ??

So on another note , you obviously love the Obama fella , tell me a few issues he stands for - that you like -

Oh and .... Whats he gonna change .

[phxurs]

Funny Neocolonialism know how to get us into war – but don't know when to get us out

cpl of questions

How Much is this going to cost US the taxpayer???

When will it end???

How will we know we won???

Why did we go there in the first place??? WMD (Hint - Maybe under Jr Desk – joke)

And if we left say now? Maybe week, month, maybe yr from know? Or 100 yrs would they government last two weeks (I don't think so)

So were propping up a Islamic government (of I rag) what will we get out of it?

How many Americans (don't give me – will fight them there crap as the answer) will DIE

Oh – lets not forget – how are money is helping them so much (IE....There Country is “WORSE” then before! Hospitals, Schools, Water, Electricity. And Bombs just about every were)

So post your warm and fuzzy stories - but most of US know better

[ga-hvac-tech]

OK, I will bite... tell us what you know (better)... And please be specific about details, THX!

And while you are at it, please tell me (specifically in verifiable details) what changes Mr Obama is going to make, how he is going to do them, and who will pay for it. Inquiring minds want to know... :cool:

[mrs reb77]

I can't answer anything except who will pay for it! :D

[bootlen]

I can't answer anything except who will pay for it! :D

Apparently, you're in the same boat as BHO.:D

[mrs reb77]

Funny how that works!
We got plans, grand plans, we need lots of money, don't know if the plans will work but, we know where to get the money!