View Full Version : new American Standard hp 3rd break down in a month
07-13-2008, 06:42 AM
Sure hope someone can help me unravel my hp problem... Bought a 16 seer American Standard system in Sept 07. They used existing duct work. I also bought a honeywell visionpro thermostat and a whole house air cleaner. Worked fine all winter; I tried the cooling in June and it didn't work. They came out and said coil was leaking and needed replacing....factory defect. They replaced it and it worked that night but next day it wouldn't cool again. They came out and said it had a leak on outside unit from rubbing up against reversing valve. That was 6/11 and 6/13. Then I cleaned the prefilter and collection cell on air cleaner today and when I turned it on again it's not cooling again. It's the weekend so I'll call again tomorrow but that's 3 times in a month a new system that's suppose to be a good system is needing a service call. Is this a bad unit? Is this bad install? Is there something I should be asking these guys? Since the system was installed in Sept of last year for all practical purposes the cooling has only been used...or attempted to be used for a month with 3 repairs now. This seems really wrong but I have no idea what to do. Do I call American Standard and complain? I have new Trane systems in a rental unit I own and in 4 yrs I've never had to have a service call. I know these are made by the same company but somehow I feel I should have got the Trane.
I don't begrudge anyone making a living but my warranty for covered labor is up in Sept. and I really want to get this resolved before then as at this rate of needed service I'm gonna have to get another job to cover service calls on my new hp. :(
Thanks for any guidance you may be able to give me on what to do.
07-13-2008, 07:17 AM
It shouldn't be a problem for them to fix it before your labor warranty is up, I haven't heard of any major problems with those units, maybe they need to send out a more experienced tech. to figure it out.
07-13-2008, 07:40 AM
it sounds like they havent really found the problem. Did they do a nitrogen check when they changed coil? Maybe still a leak.
07-13-2008, 08:59 AM
Yes, the notation said pressure tested with nitrogen started and checked system OK.
The second repairman and I were a bit skeptical about the coil needing replacement and that maybe the issue was the leak all along but he said it was really very different issues so it was hard to believe the first repair person got it that wrong.
I, of course, wanted to believe it was just one problem rather than it being that bad a unit that 2 things were wrong in that short a time on such a new unit.
I just don't know if I should ask for someone more experienced or if it's the unit but American Standard is suppose to be a good top of the line hp isn't it?
07-13-2008, 09:01 AM
Yes, it is good equipment, anything mechanical is subject to failure, no matter what brand, but it appears that the problem is just being missed.
07-13-2008, 10:31 AM
Did you also install a Variable speed air handler or furnace? I believe the XL16 requires the variable speed indoor blower for correct operation. I ran across this once.
07-13-2008, 10:38 AM
yea did a trane unit install.......othewr day ....make sure factory wiring is goood...had an issue with miswiring...they did the mistake at the factory:mad:
07-13-2008, 12:05 PM
You need to determine if it is a problem with leaking freon. If it is, then rather than play chase the money replacing components until it is fixed. The unit needs to be shut down for a couple of days and all components isolated including both sides of lineset individually and charged with nitrogen to determine where it is leaking. Not a 10 minute nitrogen test but a 3-5 day nitrogen test.
07-13-2008, 02:03 PM
If its a problem of Freon leaking. He's got real troubles. The 16i uses R410A. :)
Is this the same company that installed your Tranes.
I would advise buying the extrended 10 year parts and labor warranty while you still can.
After September, teh repairs are going to start costing you.
07-13-2008, 02:29 PM
No, it's not the same company.... I wish it was. In one month of use it's been down 3 times and it seems for 10K I wouldn't have to be sweating with only a ceiling fan...
Anyway, I don't know enough to know if it's an air handler or not....they put in the inside and outside units and I know I could hear the leak outside last time. Actually right after they replaced the coils and left my little girl came in and said it was hissing and then the next morning no more cool. They did say it was leaking freon and when they filled he could hear it too. I just feel frustrated about not knowing enough even to say they have to do something because if it's 3 times in a month it seems like there should be some recourse at some point. That's a lot of money to have no airconditioning and I'm a single mom who doesn't know what I should be saying to make them deal with this, this time around.
07-13-2008, 02:41 PM
I did buy the extended 10 yr contract when I bought the unit but I thought even with that I would have to pay for labor after the first year which is 9/24....just parts were taken care of after that. Did I get that wrong and labor is cover too? American Standard did send it to me....guess I should have read it huh? If labors paid for and parts I won't be so worried. I"ve just all along thought it just covered parts.
Could I have done something to it when I cleaned the filter? I've taken it out before and cleaned it and the cell. I didn't touch the middle one which says it has to be service by a professional. I did rinse them this time but left it off all day so it was dry.
07-13-2008, 02:51 PM
Get your copy of the extended warranty out, and see if you bought just a parts warranty, or a parts and labor warranty.
Pretty shabby, if they heard it leaking and left.
Call and talk to the service manager, or owner of the company. And tell them that you are unhappy with their service.
If you get no better service after that.
Might want to see about getting your extended warranty switched over to another company.
07-15-2008, 07:06 PM
If all of the leaks have been in the unit outside - work with the contractor and trane to replace the entire outdoor unit (condenser). If the leaks have been at the "field installed" lines then Trane would not be involved. I second who ever said to call the owner of the company and get them involved. If they are a bigger company - they may have a senior technician available that could get involved.
Also, with the amount of problems you have had, the company should : fix it or replace it - then return 1-2 weeks later at no charge to do a recheck.
07-15-2008, 07:23 PM
Either you got a lemon, or the evap coil was o.k. and they replaced it thinking that was where it was leaking since that's where most leaks are found.
07-15-2008, 08:41 PM
Well they came out yesterday and said when the employee replaced the coil he didn't seal the copper pipe and it's been leaking slowly ever since then. He showed me the bubbles and said that employee wasn't there any longer. Then he put some freon in and said his helper lived close by and would check in a few days and left.
It wasn't cooling. I waited an hour and called yet again. I was put on the phone with the guy that came out and he said wait till morning and if it was still not cooling call again. Now their leaving and it isn't even fixed. I called and about lost it. They gave me the sales manager and he apologized and sent someone else out to put more freon in it. I am just so bummed about this whole situation. It's working today. Yes, I did have labor costs covered in my 10 yr. service contract but geez, in one month of using the cooling system with a brand new hp I have spent a lot of time sweating.
Thank you to all of you that have taken the time to help me. I mean it. It's hard to be a single woman who knows nothing about this stuff and not know if I'm being taken advantage of because they know it or if this is sort of how it sometimes goes.... which is what the sales manager says. I do believe anyone would be upset after this many breakdowns on a new system after spending this much money.
07-15-2008, 09:09 PM
if it breaks down again, even though your within the first year of installation, i would call American standard ask them if
you can get a different company involved and see what they say. allthough we all hope your problem is fixxed for good
once you get past a year of operation you do have the right to get a different company out there as long as
you did purchase the factory extended warranty you should have an "AS" at the top of your warranty form
which means any authorized American Standard dealer can work on the equipment!
07-15-2008, 09:10 PM
So did they fix the leak?
If they didn't, its just going to leak out again.
07-16-2008, 12:29 AM
They did fix the leak...why they didn't put enough freon in the system I don't know but the service man that came later yesterday made the comment that he could understand how the pressure confused the other guy. Something about this being a new 2 cycle system I think and a lot of them not knowing how it really works yet. But the man that didn't put enough freon in was also the same man that said it needed a new coil and I still question if it really did need that new coil given that it only worked overnight with the new coil and it all leaked out again and it was the a leak on the outside unit. I heard it myself so I know it was really a leak out there. I think it was just that one leak that has caused all this upset....and all the rest has been because people either didn't know what they were doing or did and didn't care. We all make mistakes but this has been one after another if in fact this was just one little leak on an outside unit causing all the rest of this.
I did look at my contract and although it didn't say "as" on the front it does say in the fine print on the back that I can change service company's at anytime. I just have to notify them and follow their procedure to do it, so that's great to know because I really have about lost any faith I had that this company knows what they are doing....or at least some of their employee's. It's a shame too because some of these guys have been so nice and you just know they really do feel bad they have to keep coming back.
07-16-2008, 08:39 PM
its not very often you can hear a leak. that is a good sized leak. glad they got it fixed for you.
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