R22 / R410 combo manifold

[IrishJoe]

This is my first a/c season as a solo tech. As most of you remember, the first few years are almost like working for free because of all the equipment you have to buy :). I cut some corners on my manifold gauges. Yellow Jacket now makes 404/ 22 / 410 combo gauge set. I bought it hoping to keep money in pocket. QUESTION: I know you can't mix oils, so is a nitrogen flush, or pulling a vac on them to keep from contamination, or does it even matter ( i think it does from my schooling?) going from a 410 system to a 22 system back to back? hope this made sence lol. Guys at the shop are saying I should'nt contaminate with what little oil might hang in the tubes between units. but i'd like other thoughts on the subject....
Thanx!

[refrige-nate]

yea technically your not supposed to mix oils...and theres no way your going to flush those suckers every single time you put them on so i would go ahead and get yourself a nice set of both gauges, one for 22 the other for 410. its one of the most important tools you have as an A/C tech so buy good gauges

[mark beiser]

If you've got enough oil left in your manifold and hoses, after disconnecting from a system, that you need to be concerned about contaminating the next system, you seriously need to rethink your procedures...

I'm not a fan of analogue gauges at all, but combo R-22/R-410A gauges are a particularly bad idea.
The working range for an R-22 system is compressed into the least accurate part of the gauge movement, and the resolution is to low to be anything like accurate.

[weber]

Your biggest concern with those gauges shouldn't be about switching from a 22 unit to a 410 unit unless your leaving your hoses full.

The biggest problem with these gauges are the saturation scale. Because your crammin' that scale in there with the rest, it becomes very inaccurate.

This is why others and myself, recommend digital gauges.

If your using these gauges, I recommend you use a p/t chart to get your sat temps.

[IrishJoe]

[QUOTE=weber;1910727]The biggest problem with these gauges are the saturation scale. Because your crammin' that scale in there with the rest, it becomes very inaccurate.

Good point, hadn't thought of the pressure diff, abstracting the readings. Thanks.

Why do you think an industry leader like YJ decided to put out the product?

[weber]

Because its a great product, that is rated at more then one refrigerant, making it essential to our industry and to saving time.

But the fact that the scale is to small to get an accurate reading has nothing to do with the manufacture, it has to do with the accuracy of your calibrated eye. If you have a microscopic eye, then you have nothing to worry about ;)

[JBM1000]

Glad to notice the concern was for the saturation "temperature boiling point" verses just the pressure. I run into techs that never think temps with gauges, just hoping for 40' I guess and juke joint jive'in the sub cooling & surperheat.

Don't even want to go there with the 30 other factors that matter! :D

[JWB]

[QUOTE=weber;1910727]Your biggest concern with those gauges shouldn't be about switching from a 22 unit to a 410 unit unless your leaving your hoses full.

The biggest problem with these gauges are the saturation scale. Because your crammin' that scale in there with the rest, it becomes very inaccurate.

This is why others and myself, recommend digital gauges.

QUOTE]

So does that mean that we shouldn't leave our hoses full with ball valves and sealtite ends if we are using digitals on 22 & 410? Can you please elaborate?

[weber]

My opinion you should never leave refrigerant on your hoses and put them on another unit.

Especially if you are going from 22 to 410a.

But even going on service calls of the same refrigerant, I dont like to spread aids from one unit to another, I perfer to strap it up.... and be sure!

[Skrammy]

Delete

[Skrammy]

My opinion you should never leave refrigerant on your hoses and put them on another unit.

Especially if you are going from 22 to 410a.

But even going on service calls of the same refrigerant, I dont like to spread aids from one unit to another, I perfer to strap it up.... and be sure!


Another way to look at it is...would you take a thermometer from someone with the flu and stick it in your mouth after they used it?
It can be like spreading a sickness if you dont empty out your hoses. You can spread acid from one contaminated system to a brand new install!! Plus if you empty out your hoses, it will keep your analog gauges a little more reliable. You dont have pressure sitting in them 24/7.

Chad
Indy

[johncavh]

yes i do usually keep pressure in 24/7:mad:

[Texas-Tech]

there is no reason to keep pressure in your hoses, what small amount of air that may get in between uses in not worth worrying about. Bleed um out when you hook up or blow nitro through before use. It is possible to take it to extremes and thats not necessary.

[proplumb]

weber is right, i would never keep anyining in my guages. i have been told in a coarse that you can uncallibrate guages by keeping a longterm charge in them. cross contamination is also an issue as well, if you keep a compressor (air) in you r truck you allways drain it down due to moisture and longevity of the machine . i think gauges are the same. what is the rational for keeping a charge in them anyway?

[BigJon3475]

To keep air that holds moisture out of the hoses. Only slightly above atmosphere is not going to uncalibrated them and it will keep air from entering them if they aren't secure to the manifold. Not sure what 200 psi does if held for long periods of time I see no need for that so I haven't done it.


Air compressors compress air which contains moisture in it. The interior will rust away if pressure is left in compromising the tank. A little different scenario.

[proplumb]

To keep air that holds moisture out of the hoses. Only slightly above atmosphere is not going to uncalibrated them and it will keep air from entering them if they aren't secure to the manifold. Not sure what 200 psi does if held for long periods of time I see no need for that so I haven't done it.


Air compressors compress air which contains moisture in it. The interior will rust away if pressure is left in compromising the tank. A little different scenario.

every teck i have ever meet who keeps their guages under pressure keeps what ever pressuer in their hoses was left from the last job and purges them connected to the next machine ie opening up all the valve on their manifolds andletting the new refridge. pusr out the old. this is very common for those who keep pressuer and allot will denie it im sure but when i first started i witnessed and heard about this allot. i agree with the air comp. being different due to rust but i was leaning towards what it will also do to a gauge they stay at a high pressuer even when empty, i know these are way cheaper than a manifold but im sure it would have the same effect over time just not severe enoough to be obviouse. think if your gauges are even out 10 psi what your systems might be out by

[y7turbo]

410/22 manifolds suck the temperatures are way to close for use on 22 for my eyes!

i use 3 sets of 22/134/404 yellow jacket 1% gauges on different manifolds and 1 set of 410/22 that i only use for 410. its rare that i even use the 410 set.

[weber]

You shouldn't use the temp scale on the gauges anyhow, use a pt chart you will be much more accurate.

[y7turbo]

You shouldn't use the temp scale on the gauges anyhow, use a pt chart you will be much more accurate.

i think they are fine and ill keep using them.

[MechAcc]

i think they are fine and ill keep using them.

Looking at Honeywell's AZ-20 R410a R-22 Temperature pressure chart publication # 0525-093-02-08-10K, 45 degree F. on their chart for R410a corresponds to a pressure of 129.8 psig. By blowing up the gauge set where the set is a nice 6 inch gauge giving a more accurate alignment a 45 degree reference is closer to a reading 135 psig. A 129 psig on that gauge align
ns more closely to a temperature of 43 degrees F. Now the temperature scales on these gauges may give a nice ballpark figure on temperature to pressure but if a ball park figure is what you really want then continue to use the gauge's temperature scale.

[MechAcc]

Maybe someone should contact Yellow Jacket and let them know their temperature pressure scales on their gauges don't match the charts. Who knows maybe they'll give you a reward.

[y7turbo]

http://www.yellowjacket.com/images/A_RplcmntPrts_G/Series-41-Replacement-Parts.jpg



http://www.frickcold.com/library/PressureChart1.pdf

looks close enough on the r22 scale.

[MechAcc]

http://www.yellowjacket.com/images/A_RplcmntPrts_G/Series-41-Replacement-Parts.jpg



http://www.frickcold.com/library/PressureChart1.pdf

looks close enough on the r22 scale.


On that gauge but the one that Irishmist posted is a different matter http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=7909&d=1214878482

[y7turbo]

On that gauge but the one that Irishmist posted is a different matter http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=7909&d=1214878482

that one seems to be off a little. if i owned that i would be a little upset.

the links i posted were for someone who said i should not even use the temperature reading on gauges. the link i posted showed temp/pressure on the gauge almost the same as a pt chart. I just dont see the difference in the 1 degree it may have been off depending on the angle you look at the gauge.

[Twilly]

My opinion you should never leave refrigerant on your hoses and put them on another unit.

Especially if you are going from 22 to 410a.

But even going on service calls of the same refrigerant, I dont like to spread aids from one unit to another, I perfer to strap it up.... and be sure!


Twilli wonders were does Weber get the guage condoms? Testo make em?

[behappy]

guage condoms? Testo make em?

German condoms are too small...... You need a Yellow Jacket :D

[weber]

Twilli wonders were does Weber get the guage condoms? Testo make em?

Lol, sometimes you have to go in bare, but you better make sure shes clean with nothing in your hose from the last one.....

[Twilly]

Twilli says bare??? Woooooooooo

[bluetooth751]

After about 4 years leading back to 2000 we carried two sets of gauges. Now installation 99.8% of what we do is 410. We use the Yj Titan 4-valve manifolds with the large 3.25" gauges. You get alot of oil spray electrical contact cleaner in your hoses then flush with nitrogen.