Seer Confusion

[RAINMAN7]

I have a question. I was given a estimate for a Rheem Classic 3 ton 14 seer split ac system. I went with the estimate and saw that the condenser is a 13 seer. I called the contractor and told him that he did not give me what he estimated... he replied " I installed a 14 seer variable speed air handler and 13 seer condenser which is a 14 seer system". Is this correct? After looking on Rheem's web site I did not see 13 seer units. I thought 14 seer was the standard now? The contractor did not complete the installation yet, he still has to charge the system and tie in the duct work.

I looked into the serial #'s on the estimate which are

condenser-RANL-03JAZ
air handler-RNSLHM3617

I then realized that the condenser # is a 13 seer that he had on the estimate but at the top in the job description it says 14 seer split A/C system.

What should I do?

[RyanHughes]

Just to add:

That's not a v/s air handler (has a PSC motor). Correct model numbers are RANL-036JAZ and RHSL-HM3617, too.

This system is rated at 13 SEER. ARI reference number: 683301. I'd speak with the installer about this if he told you the system was rated at 14 SEER. Ask him for proof (ARI certificate). Rheem rates this setup at 14 SEER, but I'd tend to trust ARI, which rates the systems.

[beenthere]

Use the ref number Ryan posted. Go to the ARI website. Enter that ref number, then double click on the rating, it will bring up a printable cert, show it to your contractor and then ask him.

[Mr Bill]

14 seer you will need:

RAPL-036JAZ
RHSL-HM3617JA

[RyanHughes]

Use the ref number Ryan posted. Go to the ARI website. Enter that ref number, then double click on the rating, it will bring up a printable cert, show it to your contractor and then ask him.

I updated my original post. Rheem rates this setup at 14 SEER for some reason. I'd still trust the ARI certificate, and I'd show it to the contractor as beenthere said. The OP says he was told that this was a v/s setup, when really the air handler has a PSC motor.

Rainman, I attached the ARI certificate for you. I just hope the dealer doesn't pull out Rheem's specs and show you that it's a 14 SEER system.

[Mr Bill]

I am a RUUD dealer have been for over 15 years and I know of any 13 seer condenser that will get you to 14 seer, I don't care what furnace or air handler you use unless he knows something I don't.

The match he is selling you is a 13 seer or 11.30 eer. and you can take that to the bank.

[RAINMAN7]

Thanks all for the responses and the certificate. That is a little strange Rheem would rate it 14 seer.

Thanks again.

[RyanHughes]

Middle of page 8 here: http://216.122.22.11/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=0d433a45-9405-49a5-876e-cbb143ddb961

You'll see that Rheem rated the setup at 12.15 EER and 14.00 SEER--quite different from the American Refrigeration Institute (trusted for equipment ratings)'s rating. I just don't see how the 13.00 SEER unit going to 14.00 SEER without a premium (X13 or v/s) indoor unit, but who knows... The issue about him telling you that's a v/s blower is a whole other issue... Can you confirm the model number on the indoor unit?

[RAINMAN7]

Is this something I should be putting up a fight about with the contractor. Or is what he is giving me "close enough"?

[Mr Bill]

Is this something I should be putting up a fight about with the contractor. Or is what he is giving me "close enough"?

Well if you getting a 13 seer and paying for a 14 seer I personally would have a problem with that. :eek:

[RyanHughes]

Was variable speed noted on the estimate? Nevertheless, if you thought you were getting 14 SEER and ended up getting 13 SEER, I too would have a problem with that. Maybe he is confused about the air handler? :rolleyes: Is RHSL-HM3617 the air handler that you have?

[Mr Bill]

he replied " I installed a 14 seer variable speed air handler

RUUD/Rheem does not make a true VS Air handler that I personally know of, they do make a AH with the X13 motor that has a board in the AH with dip switches were the tech can field set the speed for the application, but it's still a fixed speed just more speeds available to set to marry it to your existing duct system.

[RyanHughes]

Mr. Bill,

I believe the Rheem RHKA/L series or Ruud UHKA/L series blowers use the ECM variable-speed motor. Someone can confirm...

http://216.122.22.11/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=b7f15845-f618-41d6-bd74-a842005a9145

Just FYI...

[beenthere]

If the contract says 14 SEER system, then you should be getting one that has an ARI rating of 14 SEER, or a refund.

[Mr Bill]

Mr. Bill,

I believe the Rheem RHKA/L series or Ruud UHKA/L series blowers use the ECM variable-speed motor. Someone can confirm...

http://216.122.22.11/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=b7f15845-f618-41d6-bd74-a842005a9145

Just FYI...

Dip switches for field setting of motor cfm's this is not a true VS motor IMO.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/mrbillpro/ScreenHunter_001.jpg

[RyanHughes]

That's true, but it does also say:

"Includes an energy efficient GE® ECM® Motor, which in
most applications, enhances the SEER rating of the outdoor
unit. It also slowly ramps its speed up for quiet operation
and enhanced customer satisfaction."

This led me to believe that it was variable speed. I see ECM mentioned, but not X13. I was trying to find somewhere in there that mentioned varying speeds to maintain airflow, but I couldn't. You might be right.

[Mr Bill]

It also slowly ramps its speed up for quiet operation
and enhanced customer satisfaction."


Personally, I think that only means the motor starts out slow and moves up slowly to dip switch setting for a quieter start up, some conventional motors take off like a F-16 jet and make a ton of noise on start up, maybe I am wrong but this is what I gather.

[RAINMAN7]

The air handler # is

RHKL-HM3617JA

if this helps.

[RyanHughes]

Then that's a 14 SEER system with the ECM motor--different from what you put in the original post. ARI reference number: 683509.

[RAINMAN7]

If I am reading that chart right linked by Ryan, the set up he gave me is rated @ 15 seer.

Is this correct?

[Mr Bill]

If I am reading that chart right linked by Ryan, the set up he gave me is rated @ 15 seer.

Is this correct?

Lets start over, forget the chart! forget everything! and just please list the "Correct Model" numbers of the outdoor unit and the indoor unit and then we can help you. :rolleyes:

[beenthere]

You can forget the chart.
But the blower in that link is a ECM VS blower.
If you look at page 6, you will see CFM/RPM tables.

PSC and X13 motors aren't listed at RPMs. They're just listed at Static pressures.

[docholiday]

You still need the full model numbers.

He seems convinced that the Air handler is the RHKL-HM3617. This air handler has the true ECM motor that varies it's speed to maintain a constant CFM, not an X13 motor. It will vary if On Demand Dehumidification are used or if a multi-stage condenser is used. It's as much an ECM as any other product with the exception of the mod90 furnace.

His outdoor unit is incomplete, we dont know if it's an RANL-030 or an RANL-036.

If it's the 030, the SEER is 14 with a respectable EER of 12.55
If it's the 036, the SEER is 14 with an EER of 11.75

[RyanHughes]

I'm assuming it's the 036 since in his original post he mentioned 3-ton 14 SEER.

[docholiday]

Me too but last time I assumed.... you know the rest of the story.

Anyway, ARI is a third party watchdog... in either case it's a 14 SEER system. The hang tags (energy guide) list that particular unit as matched with the highest sales volume match. In the case of the RANL-036 it is most comonly sold with a coil only RCFL-HM3621JA which gives 13 SEER. This is why the energy guide is useless, the contractor should have known the customer would see it since he cant peel it off. He should have come prepared with the ARI certificate and the spec sheets.

[Mr Bill]

Well if it a 14 seer with a RANL you know something I don't because I am looking at my RUUD specs sheet just given to me on May 1st and the UANL is a 13 seer period, I don't care what coil or air handler you match it up with, I see no match in my RUUD spec. sheet that shows any 13 seer condenser that will make a 14 seer using any air handler or furnace they sell, Rheem must have different specs.
With RUUD you will need a UAPL to get you to 14 seer.