Replaced AC because of Freon Leak, New AC same problem

[rustymetal]

So here is the story, around a year ago my central air for my 3ed floor condo stopped giving cold air. We called for a local repair man.

He said the AC was really just too old, he could put freon in it but it would leak out again, and that the only real fix is to get a new system. It was old and was from when the building was built around 89.

So we get a new system, totaling around $XXXXXXXXXXXXfor equipment,install, warranty, service plan, etc.

3 months after, same problem no cool air. Service guy says freon was low and he fix it.

8 months later, same problem, no cool air, freon problem. Although this guy wrote "PMA" on the service sticker on the AC instead of 'No cool'

And now here we are, 6 months from the last service on Dec 07. With the same problem. I called for service appointment, have to wait a few days so there is no one to ***** out yet.
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That's the story can someone tell me wtf is going on? Why did i spend $XXX to fix a freon problem that I'm still having?

Thanks for reading, if this is wrong forum/website sorry just a over heated Floridian here looking to vent on some forums and maybe read good information.

[jrbenny]

did they replace the line set?

[beenthere]

As above, Did they replace the line set.
Do they even look for the leak to repair it.

Call and tell them you either want the leak fixed. Or your money back so you can get a system that doesn't leak.

And edit out your prices, its against the rules.
Who knows, a "mod" could see it and edit it out. :) LOL

Ps: They did change both the indoor and outdoor unit right.

[jrbenny]

got distracted. phone rang.

pesky customers. :D

[rustymetal]

I know they replaced the in-apartment unit that sits above my water heater.
I also know they replaces the big unit outside that is on the ground.

I'm not sure what a line set is. I'm guessing it has something to do with connecting the two units? I'm not really sure, but I didn't see them doing anything like that. Not that I would really know what it looks like :o

[beenthere]

The line set is the copper lines that connects the 2 units.

[iraqveteran]

seems pretty appearant that a pressure test was not done after brazing new system.

So now the more important questions.

On top of....did they do leak search?
Is the system sized properly?
Is the fan speed correct?
Is the ductwork sized properly?
Are your filters clean?
Are your coils clean?
Was superheat and subcooling measurements taken?

The list goes on. There is a number of measurements that must be taken to see the full picture of what might be going on.

Sounds like you hired a sub-par performing contractor. I would call them and explain in very easy terms that if your system is not up and running CORRECTLY by Friday afternoon that you want the enitre system removed and want a full refund. That at least gives them 48 hours to diagnose, and fix the real problem. Not just put another band aid on it and gimp it along until your warranty runs out.

That may get their attention.


Just curious....could you take some pics and post em. We like to see and critique others work:D

[rustymetal]

The line set is the copper lines that connects the 2 units.

well there would have to have been 3 stories worth of copper, and I know I did not see them doing that. SO I'm going to say they did not. Are they suppose to? is that part of a regular installation?

[iraqveteran]

well there would have to have been 3 stories worth of copper, and I know I did not see them doing that. SO I'm going to say they did not. Are they suppose to? is that part of a regular installation?

Its not required at all times. It needed to be checked for proper sizing and also that there aren't any LEAKS!!!!!

[beenthere]

No, its not done on every change out.

[jrbenny]

Guess we found the likely leak location. :rolleyes:

[iraqveteran]

Guess we found the likely leak location. :rolleyes:

3 stories.......I bet its between story 2 and 3.:D

[HeyBob]

Sounds like new lineset down the outside of the building time! :eek:

[Twilly]

Twilli says sloppy installation procedures or they would have found the leak.

[RyanHughes]

Still may not be in the lineset. Lineset leaks are pretty rare since the copper is one piece. They should look at the places where they brazed the copper (i.e. joints, at unit, etc.). They may have messed up the schraeder core/valve while brazing or not tightened it. Have them back to do it right. They can isolate the leak with soap bubbles.

[rustymetal]

Thanks for you help guys. At least I know the problem better then my service man now, but I won't let him know that.

Someone said picture, I'm all about the proof! Tell me how these guys did for not fixing my problem..... Looking back, I ended up selecting these guys because they were the first ones I found in the phone book... I really should have investigated much further and did some research.

http://s3.supload.com/free/AC_APT.JPG/view/

http://s3.supload.com/free/AC_APT2.JPG/view/

http://s3.supload.com/free/AC_outside.JPG/view/

http://s3.supload.com/free/AC_outside2.JPG/view/

[iraqveteran]

got enough leaves and tape????

buried lineset. They really need to find that leak in case its in the ground and contaminating your system.

[rustymetal]

Yeah, so the big black tapped up mess is the line set? !?! its just like that above the AC in house like that, you can't see in the picture because it is really crampt between the ceiling but its just a taped mess.

I called and got a guy out here today after a little harassment.

[iraqveteran]

Need more pics.

Get some good ones of the coils

and get a wider shot of the outdoor units from multiple angles so we can see the rest of the clan sittin there with yours.

[RyanHughes]

and get a wider shot of the outdoor units from multiple angles so we can see the rest of the clan sittin there with yours.

And the make of the current unit. ;)

[iraqveteran]

Yeah.....what he said.

Kinda looks like a low grade Lennox. But the Air Handler almost reminds me of an old York???


I can't tell off hand, maybe an Armstrong?



get some pics of the nametags. So we can see what we are dealing with. And I bet with that info, there are some crazy ivans out there that will get your SEER, EER, and HSPF for the system.

[tinknocker service tech]

when did the leak first start? Has it been there all along or did it just happen for the first time last season.

if just started was the any work happening in one of the condos below your where the lines run? It is possible something hit the lines and caused the leak.


this company realy needs to do a leak check and find out what part of the system is leaking. This IMO should have been done before changing aevery thing out.

[jrbenny]

Still may not be in the lineset. Lineset leaks are pretty rare since the copper is one piece. They should look at the places where they brazed the copper (i.e. joints, at unit, etc.). They may have messed up the schraeder core/valve while brazing or not tightened it. Have them back to do it right. They can isolate the leak with soap bubbles.
How ya gonna use those bubbles on the coil and line set?

[beenthere]

How ya gonna use those bubbles on the coil and line set?
I remember way way back, I bought a halide tourch to find those dang coil leaks.

And then discovering that I couldn't see the color change outside.

[beenthere]

.
Line sets running up the side of a building are pressure tested for leaks.

[iraqveteran]

Line sets running up the side of a building are pressure tested for leaks.

umm ok.

why did you quote yourself. Were you not there when you said it aloud as you typed it?????

[BigJon3475]

If they are having a hard time locating the leak have them isolate each component and pressure test each one. Lineset, evaporator, condenser. That will tell you right off the bat. Once they know what is leaking they can focus in a little better. If they don't seem to interested find someone else that is.

I haven't' had very good luck with those linesets that disappear into the ground :eek:

[adrianf]

3 stories.......I bet its between story 2 and 3.:D

Other than if someone has done remodeling/decorating and caught the line set with a screw or nail the leaks in this part of the county are usually under the slab. And they're usually in the required pvc/poly chase way but nobody bothered to seal them so the linesets sit in water loaded with all kinds of chemicals from landscape maintenance. Getting the charge right is interesting also. This happens way too often,

[beenthere]

I have no idea what your talking about. :)

Sometimes when I do 2 responces in a row, the quote message stays clicked.

[RyanHughes]

How ya gonna use those bubbles on the coil and line set?

A (fairly competent in my opinion) tech at my house once sprayed bubbles on the coils (indoor and outdoor) as well as the valve areas, but I see what you're saying; it's gotta be tough finding a leak with those fins unless its on a u-bend at the coil. You can't use the bubbles on the whole lineset obviously, but in areas where brazing was done and the lineset is exposed I don't see why not. I know you know all of this already; I'm just explaining myself.

[Airmechanical]

Still may not be in the lineset. Lineset leaks are pretty rare since the copper is one piece. They should look at the places where they brazed the copper (i.e. joints, at unit, etc.). They may have messed up the schraeder core/valve while brazing or not tightened it. Have them back to do it right. They can isolate the leak with soap bubbles.


have you never seen fittings in the middle of a lineset?

oh ya, you not an hvac guy!:rolleyes:

you need to get a job in the hvac field, i think you would really like it;)



.

[RyanHughes]

Read the next sentence. "They should look at the places where they brazed the copper (i.e. joints, at unit, etc.)." Obviously, if there were joints in the lineset due to the length, then they would need to look there, though that'd be difficult if it's burried. I shouldn't have assumed that the lineset was one piece given the length; you are correct. Thanks for pointing that out. I knew you were excited to point out a mistake and then throw a comment about me not being in the HVAC field (which is actually not a requirement to post here according to the admin, whom I've communicated with to confirm my posting privileges--just gotta follow the rules like everybody else)... I thank you for pointing that out about joints in the lineset, which slipped my mind. ;)

[jrbenny]

Back to the reason that I don't think homers should comment on these topics.

[flange]

Sometimes you can get a general location of the leak if there appears to be oil present. It should not be there. Feel around the piping where it connects at both units, if you find oil, you will be close to your leaker....

[gary_g]

Back to the reason that I don't think homers should comment on these topics.

Homers?

[RyanHughes]

Homers?

I think it's slang for homeowners. :D

[gary_g]

I think it's slang for homeowners. :D

Then we are all homers.

[beenthere]

Then we are all homers.
Not if you live in a condo.

Then your condomer. :) LOL

[jrbenny]

Not worth it.