Carrier Infinity control lowest humidity setting 46%

[OldSoCalCondo]

Well, I just had the complete Infinity system installed, AC, Furnace, and Control. The unit is communicating and reading correct outdoor temp. I have set the basic Himidity setting to one bar/one box on the left. In advanced, the lowest it will let me set it is to 46% which is also all the way to the left. The actual humidity reading is off, so it would be nice to use the setup option of off-set to correct this. But because of the off-set error on the high side, I can't even use it to get much below the reported target of 46%.

So my question is why is the lowest target setting possible only 46%? I bought this system so I could at least try to get the condo down to 35% humidity, but this won't even let me set it that low. Am I missing something in the setup or configuration?

Please help as this is very important to me and the reason I spent thousands extra...

Thanks,

Keith

[Airmechanical]

Well, I just had the complete Infinity system installed, AC, Furnace, and Control. The unit is communicating and reading correct outdoor temp. I have set the basic Himidity setting to one bar/one box on the left. In advanced, the lowest it will let me set it is to 46% which is also all the way to the left. The actual humidity reading is off, so it would be nice to use the setup option of off-set to correct this. But because of the off-set error on the high side, I can't even use it to get much below the reported target of 46%.

So my question is why is the lowest target setting possible only 46%? I bought this system so I could at least try to get the condo down to 35% humidity, but this won't even let me set it that low. Am I missing something in the setup or configuration?

Please help as this is very important to me and the reason I spent thousands extra...

Thanks,

Keith


are you trying to grow dust mites?

35% is too low!



.



.

[pateman29]

45-50% good range

[OldSoCalCondo]

My Condo is at 50% now but in various places I get mold and mildew. I would be happy if I actually got the house down to 40%. I can ramp the humidity up once I get rid of the problem and I find the point where it doesn't return.

But that is not the point. I can't even set it for 45%?!? So far I can only set it for 46% and because of the my other three humidity sensors say the carrier reading is wrong, I can't even hit 46%. So before Carrier Infinity 50%, after Carrier Infinity 50%. I feel I wasted my money. Although I am happy for the quieter fan, but...

Anyway, can it not be set below 46%?

[beenthere]

One of the Infinity guru's will come along soon.
Which Infinity system did you get, is it the 2 stage.

[sneezer]

are you trying to grow dust mites? 35% is too low!

High humidity is needed by dust mites. Below 50% really inhibits them. The health problems associated with very low humidity are due to over-drying of respiratory epithelium.

In order to keep some parts of the home below 50% it seems like the OP ought to be able to make the set point below 46%. In order to “cure” the existing mold problem OldSo ought to keep it pretty low for a few weeks.

It is not clear to me if the control can not be set below 46%, which would be stupid, or the system can not achieve below 46% which would be understandable depending on the temperatures and heat gain of the condo.

[acmanhoney]

High humidity is needed by dust mites. Below 50% really inhibits them. The health problems associated with very low humidity are due to over-drying of respiratory epithelium.

In order to keep some parts of the home below 50% it seems like the OP ought to be able to make the set point below 46%. In order to “cure” the existing mold problem OldSo ought to keep it pretty low for a few weeks.

It is not clear to me if the control can not be set below 46%, which would be stupid, or the system can not achieve below 46% which would be understandable depending on the temperatures and heat gain of the condo.

GO PRO;)

Well said..the control will run the a/c at lower stage and fan speed to remove more humidity but it wont allow the system to cool past 70,, in the summer it is usually difficult to reach below 50% humidity in my area, and the tightness of your house and ducts must be addressed..you can have a carrier rep come to your home and inspect your equipment...dont worry, be happy you have one of the most advanced systems on market, make sure all other possibilities are checked out because ive seen this system in action and have several happy customers.


and it doesnt go below 46% because thats extreme for summertime

[jrbenny]

HVAC systems are not engineered for the dehumidification that you desire. Thus, the Infinity UI does not allow 'overcooling' to dehumidify below 46%.

Hopefully, you weren't sold this system with a promise of 35% RH.

Unless you add a separate dehumidifier, it ain't gonna happen.

You need to address the envelope leak issues in your home and duct system.

Perhaps a stand alone dehumidifier to dry the home after the home and duct system are sealed properly.

[Airmechanical]

High humidity is needed by dust mites. Below 50% really inhibits them.


wrong!:rolleyes:



.

[thorton]

HVAC systems are not engineered for the dehumidification that you desire. Thus, the Infinity UI does not allow 'overcooling' to dehumidify below 46%.

Hopefully, you weren't sold this system with a promise of 35% RH.

Unless you add a separate dehumidifier, it ain't gonna happen.

You need to address the envelope leak issues in your home and duct system.

Perhaps a stand alone dehumidifier to dry the home after the home and duct system are sealed properly.JR Benny is right, "if" you have your control mode set to cool to dehumidify. This is where the dehumidification set point comes into play and does not allow ovecooling by more then 3 degrees while attempting to satisfy a dehumidify demand. If you use the "normal dehumidification operation" this will allow a lower cooling set point and you should be able to achieve a lower % dehumidification. I'm not stating that you can reasonably reach 35 % set point, though. But it's worth a try.

thorton
____________________
Birthdays are good for you
The more you have, the longer you live

[OldSoCalCondo]

OK, I understand the system won't cool too much to reach the desired dehumidification. In fact the manual as much as states that when the talk about the two modes of dehumidification. The normal(off), and the humidification mode (on) where it will go up to five degrees past the set point to try to reach the target humidity level.

If I set it to a low number and it doesn't make it, then I will say at least I tried the best. I mean they do sell this system as being able to control humidity. I forget the marketing term.

I understand there is only so much the system can do. And obviously if I set it to 15%, it won't be able to do without a dedicated dehumidifier. The question and the point is that I can't even set it to 45%. Is even 45% too low to be able to set it to?

So to answer the questions, it is a two stage two ton Infinity condenser, matched to a 80% Infinity Furnace, with Infinity control. The system was just installed brand spanking new. I tried the Dehumidify setting to On, which allows it to go up to five degrees past the set point, and the Off setting, which is like a normal setting. In both cases I can only set it to a target of 46%. As far as I know there are three places that control the setting. In basic there is the bar graph, no numbers shown, in Advanced there is a bar graph that shows numbers That go from 46% in steps of 2% to I think the high of 54%. And then in the initial system install mode there is a Off-set of plus or minus 10%. But I believe this is meant to calibrate the humidity reading to a correct or differential reading. Because the reading is off, I am able to use this but only to gain a few more lower humidity percentages. But this setting doesn't change the low set point of 46%. Does that all make sense?

What doesn't make sense is that Carrier would say the lowest a home owner can or should set the Humidity level to is 46%. I mean why not 45%? I feel I have been very thorough, but I must be missing something???

Thanks for the help.

[acmanhoney]

the unit helps control humidity but its still an a/c, you could have a leaky pipe.

when you set it at 46% does the unit cool past your set point and how much?

if you wanted it below 46 it would not cycle off, so if you wanna try and get it below 40% your house will be very cold, its designed for cooling the humidity stuff are features.

[ibis1]

I have a Nordyne IQ Drive which has a humidity setting down to 30%. I keep it set at 40% and measure the RH at 43 to 44%. This keeps my home very cool, so I have not tried to set it any lower. It goes in 5 deg steps so I could set it at 35 or 30%, but don't know if it would drop any lower without dropping the temp to an uncomfortable degree. I live in SE Florida with very high humidity levels, so 30% may not be atainable. ibis

[jrbenny]

You have a variable drive compressor. Different beast.

[21degrees]

Just have to go into advanced options and put in manual settings instead of auto tracking out door settings. When you have it in auto setting you can only adjust range which is a small margin, that is where you see bars. You can actually set as low as you want.

[jrbenny]

Just have to go into advanced options and put in manual settings instead of auto tracking out door settings. When you have it in auto setting you can only adjust range which is a small margin, that is where you see bars. You can actually set as low as you want.
Auto Tracking with ODT is for heating humidification.

[adrianf]

Just say no to droop. A dehumidifier does not sweaty ducts make.

[ron3637]

I noticed the same issue with my Infinity system which has a variable speed motor. What ever you try, it cannot be set lower than 46% in any configuration including non auto. I recently purchased a stand alone dehumidifer to help control humidity in my basement in the early summer months before the cooling season starts in earnest.

[Hartmizle]

PRODUCT DATA INFORMATION
Compatible Communicating Products
Air Conditioning units -- 24AN1, 24ANA7, 24APA5, 24APA3
Heat Pumps -- 25HNA6, 25HNA9, 25HPA3, 25HPA4,
25HPA5
Gas Furnace -- 58MVB, 58MVC, 58CVA, 58UVB
Fan Coils -- FE
Small Packaged Products -- 50XL/XT, 50DU/DT, 50CE/CR,
48XL/XT, 48DU/DT, 48CE
Physical Characteristics
Dimensions: See drawing
Appearance: Plastic, white color, textured
Electrical Characteristics/Communication
Input Volts/Amps 24VAC
Each device in the Infinity System has a four--pin connector
labeled ABCD. It is recommended that the following color
code be used when wiring each device:
A — Green = Data A
B — Yellow = Data B
C — White = 24VAC (Com)
D — Red = 24VAC (Hot)
Environmental Requirements:
Operating Temperature/Relative Humidity:
User interface and all sensors: 32_F to 104_F / 0_C to 40_C,
95% rh non--condensing
Storage Temperature/Relative Humidity:
User interface: -- 40_F to 134_F / --40_C to 56.7_C, 95% rh
non--condensing
Feature Specifications:
Temperature set point range: 40_F to 90_F / 4.4_C to 32.2_C
Separate heat and cool setpoints
Programming days: 7 day
Programming periods:
2--Day, Sleep
4--Wake, Day, Eve, Sleep
Non--Programmable
Auto changeover (may be disabled)
Programmable fan (installer selectable)
Humidity Sensor Offsets
Auto Changeover Timer (installer adjustable)
Smart Recovery (in heating and cooling)
Hold function
Copy functions: Copy period, day and zone
Permanent memory
Humidity display and control
Temperature sensor offsets (indoor and outdoor)
TrueSenset Dirty Filter Detection

As I look threw the product data I dont see any information, ill keep an eye open to see if i can find any info.

[jrbenny]

When you take this system below 46% rh and 70F, you are entering low ambient operations.

Your system is not designed to operate in this manner.

Buy a dehumidifier. Seal your home.

[OldSoCalCondo]

acmanhoney, When I set it to 46% and the dehumidify is set on, no it does not cool beyond the set temp. It should, but it turns off at the set temp. I wonder if it has a differential humidity difference that says it is close enough? It was just installed and the Puron pressure was calibrated. How can I tell if I have a leak?

jrbenny, The system temp is set for 78F, not 70 nor has been 70 when it limited me to 46%. Are you saying it limits me to 46% in case it hits 70? Then why not limit me to 50% in case it might drop to 65F?

Can a Carrier Infinity knowledgeable person confirm that it truly can't be set below 46%? Or can I talk to someone at Carrier? And I apologize if someone already has given me a clear answer has it is hard to tell what knowledge level some of the statements made on here are based on. This is not really a HVAC question but a Infinity question. So no disrespect meant again.

Thanks again,

Keith

[Hartmizle]

acmanhoney, When I set it to 46% and the dehumidify is set on, no it does not cool beyond the set temp. It should, but it turns off at the set temp. I wonder if it has a differential humidity difference that says it is close enough? It was just installed and the Puron pressure was calibrated. How can I tell if I have a leak?

jrbenny, The system temp is set for 78F, not 70 nor has been 70 when it limited me to 46%. Are you saying it limits me to 46% in case it hits 70? Then why not limit me to 50% in case it might drop to 65F?

Can a Carrier Infinity knowledgeable person confirm that it truly can't be set below 46%? Or can I talk to someone at Carrier? And I apologize if someone already has given me a clear answer has it is hard to tell what knowledge level some of the statements made on here are based on. This is not really a HVAC question but a Infinity question. So no disrespect meant again.

Thanks again,

Keith


I can get you just about any information on the infinity systems but allot of times the product data is...somewhat Baud , I would have to speak to technical support and see what they say...may take me a day or so to get a straight answer but ill see what I can do.

*Edit*
Do you happen to have the full model number of your controler. Carrier has came out with a couple different models over the past 3 or so years

[beenthere]

Jrbenny use to be a Carrier rep.
I would think he is giving you the correct info.

[OldSoCalCondo]

Oh, and Carriers marketing says things like:

"Superior humidity control" - For Infinity AC.
"Infinity™ Control—you have precise control over temperature, humidity, ..." - For the T-stat.

"IdealHumidity
Keeping your home comfortable at any temperature
IdealHumidity

Innovative Carrier IdealHumidity™ systems constantly control both temperature and humidity, day and night, in any season. With an IdealHumidity system, you can monitor and adjust your home's humidity level even when your home comfort system isn't actively heating or cooling. Maintaining the proper balance of moisture in your home keeps you more comfortable at higher temperatures in the summer and lower temperatures in the winter.

In the summer, Carrier variable-speed blower systems work in concert with Carrier's highly refined Thermidistat™ Control to remove up to 30 times more moisture than a standard system, keeping you cool and more comfortable. Plus, it can also save you up to 21% in cooling costs."

IdealHumidity doesn't say it will add humidity it just says it will remove up to 30 times more then a standard system. Well I have that variable speed blower.

This all points a pretty strong picture that it will do a superior job of controlling humidity. I don't think any one would think the lowest setting of 46% is superior.

[OldSoCalCondo]

Thanks jrbenny, let me know what you think and how sure you are. This is an important issue for me so I do appreciate the help. Thanks beenthere for letting me know jrbenny's background, that helps.

Hartmizle, thanks, I would appreciate that a lot. Below are all my system details.

Carrier Condenser - 24ANA724A003
Carrier Furnace - 58CVX070112
Carrier Coil - CNPVP2414ACA
Infinity Control - SYSTXCCUID01-B
Software Version - CESR131339-13


Thanks again. :)

[Hartmizle]

Waiting for a response back from Tech Support

If you want to change the way cooling dehumidification is
controlled, scroll to DEHUMIDIFY. You will have two options.
OFF – The system will not activate the cooling equipment to
dehumidify if the cooling temperature has been satisfied.
ON – The system dehumidifies by activating the cooling
equipment – even after the cooling temperature has been
satisfied. The system will not cool to dehumidify below 70° F
in order to protect equipment.Your air conditioning system will provide excellent
humidification control with DEHUMIDIFY set to either ON or OFF.
However, you will receive better humidification control with
the ON setting.

You may already have this information but its the only thing I found worth posting for the time being.

[jrbenny]

One Last Time...

The Bottom Limit Is 46%.

If You Need To Go Below 46%, Buy A Dehumidifier Not An Air Conditioner!!!!!

If you want to understand the Infinity logic, use the search function. I've explained it in detail in previous posts.

[hvaclogic]

Was the 3 ton drive furnace set to a cfm compatible to a 2 ton condenser?

Sounds like you have a large source of moisture infiltration. I'm thinking that every time I ask a home owner about the comfort in their house I'm told that they no longer set the stat at 72 but find that 75 or 76 is plenty comfortable. We set the cooling humidity setpoint at 48% at start up and for homes that aren't wicking moisture up through the slab into the carpet the 48% is plenty comfortable. The Infinity or any system with dehum capabilities is intended to deal with the humidity associated with normal humidity that comes with heat gain by normal means. If you have a home that has an alternate source of moisture that adds several gallons of moisture to the living conditions then I don't think you can blame it on the A/C system.
Like Jr. Benny says get a stand alone dehumidifier and find the source of the extra high humidity.

[21degrees]

Auto Tracking with ODT is for heating humidification.

What you can do is go into advance mode and air flow selection pick dehumidify and turn on. then cooling will be allowed to over cool the space by up to 3 degrees f if the humidity level is above the cooling humidity target setpoint. the amount of over cooling allowed varies with the dehumidification demand, the cooling demand, and the actual space temperature. More over cooling is allowed with greater dehumidification demand. When space temperature is above 75 degrees and the dehumification is high, over cooling is up to 3 degrees. You can not go below 70 degrees it safe guards unit.

[jrbenny]

What if the temperature is above 70°F but below 75°F?

[21degrees]

Can a Carrier Infinity knowledgeable person confirm that it truly can't be set below 46%? Or can I talk to someone at Carrier? And I apologize if someone already has given me a clear answer has it is hard to tell what knowledge level some of the statements made on here are based on. This is not really a HVAC question but a Infinity question. So no disrespect meant again.

Thanks again,

Keith[/QUOTE]

Keith I am in a dryer area, but our summers the humidity can get higher. I do keep my house at 40% RH in winter and will be watching to see what RH will be on next warm day.

[21degrees]

What if the temperature is above 70°F but below 75°F?

You can over cool till 70 degrees and then it will kick off.

[21degrees]

What if the temperature is above 70°F but below 75°F?

You can set up for low ambient cooling with defrost intervals timer or auto- defrost with out door control.

[jrbenny]

You can over cool till 70 degrees and then it will kick off.
What about the humidity setpoint? Does the Infinity control make any internal changes to the humidity setpoint?

[jrbenny]

You can set up for low ambient cooling with defrost intervals timer or auto- defrost with out door control.
Really? Can I do that with my 38YDB036?

[21degrees]

What about the humidity setpoint? Does the Infinity control make any internal changes to the humidity setpoint?

Are we splitting hairs now. I thought the question was, can I lower my humidity below 46 %. Phone Tim at indy plant and ask him. Didn't you work for Carrier.

[jrbenny]

Are we splitting hairs now. I thought the question was, can I lower my humidity below 46 %. Phone Tim at indy plant and ask him. Didn't you work for Carrier.
Alright, I'll quit messing with you.

Look, you are all over the place. You get features of the Infinity control confused. I suggest you read through the Infinity FAQ and Infinity Troubleshooting Manuals.

Use the search function. I've posted them on the site.

A - The LA feature is used with the 19/21 series unit

B - The ODT interacts with winter humidification.

C - You can NOT set dehumidification as low as you want.

[beenthere]

Alright, I'll quit messing with you.



Tell us another one. :)

[21degrees]

[QUOTE=jrbenny;1867976]Alright, I'll quit messing with you.

Look, you are all over the place. You get features of the Infinity control confused. I suggest you read through the Infinity FAQ and Infinity Troubleshooting Manuals.



Ya I know it has been awhile since I put one in. But you can manipulate the humidity control through. I have done this before and it does work. My house I will check on next hot day. This week it is cool. As far as reading manual I have read more than once. I do know this controler abit. Even Carrier residential/ commercial sales team is always calling me about different features and questions. I beleive In vegas we were one of the first companies complaining about HRV control. We do like series B.

[OldSoCalCondo]

I did find this attachement - http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=1387297&postcount=18

And this statement from jrbenny - For every degree below 75°F, target humidity is raised 2%. You can't overcool more than 3°F. You won't go below 70°F.

And I found another post that stated the lowest setting was 46%. I haven't seen a post that explains that though. I can understand the 70F limit, but where does the 46% limit come from?

I haven't found the FAQ yet or the maintenance manual. I do have the install manual and the homeowners guide. But both of those are lacking details, and missing functions. I will keep searching though.

Today was a cool day so AC didn't come on. But the other day I didn't see the system reach the target humidity and it would shut off at the set point of 78F even though humidity was high and dehumidify was set to ON.

[acmanhoney]

im a huge infinity fan and the go to infinity guy at my co and jrbenny has been spot on... REMEMBER it is not a dehumidifier. you are talking about a feature not its sole purpose. in the summer to use your hvac system to dehumidify your home below say 46% you risk a low temp return air causing liquid refrigerant smackin the compressor. thats a good reason for me not to push it.
that controller should be cooling past your setpoint if theres a call for humidity,, you also have limits because it needs to be efficient...

sounds like you need a service call,, a carrier rep will come to your house if talk to the right people.

[Carnak]

Believe it or not, the building is a bigger factor on your humidity than the air conditioning system.

35% is sort of a brick wall for mechanical dehumidifiying. By a brick wall I mean for a system to start supply air to the space with a moisture content lower than what equates to 35% RH, it also gets close to freezing up condensate on the coils and needs defrost.

The term relative humidity is also confusing, as it depends on temperature. If you are trying to keep the place cooler than 75 it gets more difficult to have a low RH.

But if you have a tight structure in the middle of the Amazon rainforest, you can hold 40% humidity with single stage air conditioning

Maybe call the installer to have another look, but 46% is pretty dry. If you need to dry out problem areas of the home invest another couple hundred in a 40 pint dehumidifier. Maybe let the dehu heat up the problem areas , it makes the solids dry up faster

[teddy bear]

Will my new full featured a/c system control humidity in my home? I live in a green grass climate (WI). The house has reached 71^F occasionally but mostly less than 70^F. My humidity on the 1st floor reached 65%RH yesterday. My basement is 65^F, 72%RH. It's raining overnight and more in the forcast. I asked my sales tech when I bought the new system about humidity control. He said, "Yep, pretty much". Now what? Tell me the settings. I enjoyed watching "Yep, pretty much" guys dance on the head of a pin. Regards TB

[dan sw fl]

Will my new full featured a/c system control humidity in my home?
I live in a green grass climate (WI).
The house has reached 71^F occasionally but mostly less than 70^F.
My humidity on the 1st floor reached 65%RH yesterday.

I asked my sales tech when I bought the new system about humidity control.

82'F / 42% with ceiling fan is just fine this PM.
Of course, it is Relatively Mild, 88'F OD with the outside dew point at only 69'F.

Almost time for my Friday PM 26 mile bicycle ride.

[OldSoCalCondo]

Well, I have used the system for a while with days getting up to mid/high 80s outside. Inside it is set to 78F, and it will cool past that set point down to 76F.

It has never gotten the condo down to 46%, the closest it got was 49% once, but it is usually at 51%.

So I wouldn't call that "dry" at all.

[adrianf]

Well, I have used the system for a while with days getting up to mid/high 80s outside. Inside it is set to 78F, and it will cool past that set point down to 76F.

It has never gotten the condo down to 46%, the closest it got was 49% once, but it is usually at 51%.

So I wouldn't call that "dry" at all.

And PLEASE remember your air conditioner is not a dehumidifier and your building envelope integrity and/or internal humidity sources may exceed its latent capacity.

[OldSoCalCondo]

Oh, and Carriers marketing says things like:

"Superior humidity control" - For Infinity AC.
"Infinity™ Control—you have precise control over temperature, humidity, ..." - For the T-stat.

"IdealHumidity
Keeping your home comfortable at any temperature
IdealHumidity

Innovative Carrier IdealHumidity™ systems constantly control both temperature and humidity, day and night, in any season. With an IdealHumidity system, you can monitor and adjust your home's humidity level even when your home comfort system isn't actively heating or cooling. Maintaining the proper balance of moisture in your home keeps you more comfortable at higher temperatures in the summer and lower temperatures in the winter.

In the summer, Carrier variable-speed blower systems work in concert with Carrier's highly refined Thermidistat™ Control to remove up to 30 times more moisture than a standard system, keeping you cool and more comfortable. Plus, it can also save you up to 21% in cooling costs."

IdealHumidity doesn't say it will add humidity it just says it will remove up to 30 times more then a standard system. Well I have that variable speed blower.

This all points a pretty strong picture that it will do a superior job of controlling humidity. I don't think any one would think the lowest setting of 46% is superior.

And let's not forget how it is advertised...

[jrbenny]

Your building leaks.

Your system is satisfying the dry bulb.

Fix the envelope.

[adrianf]

And let's not forget how it is advertised...
Residential indoor summer time design humidity levels range from 55% to 45%which is approved by the American National Standards Institute and the ACCA Manual J uses. Your June dewpoint low was 50F and the high for the month was 59F with and average of 55F dewpoint for the month thus far. With the Infinity control set to cool to dehumidify and the droop temperature reaching 76F and with a delta TF around 25 degrees you should make sure your ducts aren't sweating.

Ideal Humidity is meaningless.
Superior is subjective.
The Infinity is a great product on its on merits and from your postings the unit sounds like it's doing all it call. I am sorry though if your expections where fueled by sales and marketing hype.

[ARSHOUSTON]

hay ill take 46% over 90% hummidity come see what 92 really feels like....
you must be a trane man lol....:eek:

[dash]

Old So Cal,

It's time to look for the cause.

Equipment size,duct system,buiding leaks,etc..

I think if you do you may be able to improve your situation,not 35% RH but lower then you are getting.I'd start a new thread ,lookig for issues that may increase humidity in your condo.

[OldSoCalCondo]

Yes, I do believe the building leaks. I have added weather stripping to doors, and sealed cracks I have seen so far. More to go I guess, just not sure where to check.

Good idea about checking the ducts for sweating. I will try to check it this weekend, as by the time I get home temps have cooled down.

Thanks