how to keep birds etc out of exhaust pipe

[cvcman]

ok if they run my exhaust out the rear wall of the house how do you keep birds etc out of the pipe ?? If you put a 90 deg downturn on it ??:eek:

[cmajerus]

have them install a screen no smaller than 1/4" mesh. they use them on water heater terminations all the time. Never had one frost over on me yet, to small of screen will of course.

[I_bend_metal]

ok if they run my exhaust out the rear wall of the house how do you keep birds etc out of the pipe ?? If you put a 90 deg downturn on it ??:eek:

I use these....but that's just my personal preference

[cvcman]

i wonder if putting a 90 deg downturn would work too, mine will be about 3 ft off the ground ??

[badboyheel]

i agree with cmj people say screens ice up, but as long as you use big mesh you'll be fine. never had one freeze up yet

[badboyheel]

lmao I Bend Metal

[beenthere]

No down turn elbow on the exhaust. You could draw it back in the intake, and that will cause more trouble yet.

[I_bend_metal]

OP....I think most places call it "hardware cloth" It usually comes in a large role, but it is nothing more than wire screen with the wires spaced in 1/2 inch squares....we use it all the time around here. It's also very easy to mold around the end of the pipe.

And yeah, like beenthere said.....don't turn down the exhaust pipe!

Bazookas are still my favorite though. :D

[cvcman]

my combustion air will be taken from the basement, so... would the 90deg down turn work then ??

I already know the pros and cons of taking inside air for combustion:rolleyes:

[cmajerus]

my combustion air will be taken from the basement, so... would the 90deg down turn work then ??

I already know the pros and cons of taking inside air for combustion:rolleyes:
I would not use a 90, maybe a tee or 45 but not a 90.

BTW there are no pros to taking indoor air for combustion.

[beenthere]

I'd use a tee, not a 90 or 45.

[cvcman]

hummm well there is a pro for me and thats not having the humidity increase in my house by taking outside air, but I have been over this many many times with reps from Rheem so ...

Whats the problem with a down turn IF taking combustion air from inside ?? Just curious

[cmajerus]

hummm well there is a pro for me and thats not having the humidity increase in my house by taking outside air, but I have been over this many many times with reps from Rheem so ...

Whats the problem with a down turn IF taking combustion air from inside ?? Just curious
1. its not in the installer's guide
2. it won't help keeping birds out
3. it points all that moist exhaust at the side of your home, frosting it over and depending on the siding gets moisture behind it.

I prefer straight out if not using a termination kit.

[beenthere]

The exhaust is detremental to your homes exterior finnish.

[cvcman]

gotcha, seems as though it would help with the birds as birds dont usually fly up into a hole they prefere to fly straight like in a bird house. But I guess straight will be ok.

What tops the air from just rising up and going into your soffit vents ? Doesnt warm air rise or will it get blown out past the 2 ft soffit ?

Thanks

[beenthere]

Distance. You need clearance between the vent and sofit. 4'

[cvcman]

well the soffit is 7 ft above the exhaust but the soffit sticks out 4ft and the exhast will stick out about 3". Wont the fumes just rise up int the soffit ? Or will it get blown right straight out and if so how far out will it blow ??

[beenthere]

It will be diluted by the outdoor air before it reaches your sofit.

[cvcman]

The soffit is actually on the garage portion. What is the max run length of 2" pvc for the 60k btu 2 stage Rheem ? I may have them run it to the other side of the garage and go out a few feet under the soffit, would that be ok ? The run would be about 25 ft or so with about 4 or 5 elbows ????

[acmanhoney]

hummm well there is a pro for me and thats not having the humidity increase in my house by taking outside air, but I have been over this many many times with reps from Rheem so ...

Whats the problem with a down turn IF taking combustion air from inside ?? Just curious

WHY do you think outside combustion air would add humidity to the home?
the combustion chamber is sealed inside so outside air would not enter your home it just enters heat exchanger and exhaust is pumped out, this may be why youve been over it so many times, it is not correct that external combustion air would add humidity to the house and i cant even think how it might possibly happen ever.

[cvcman]

if you watch the air coming out does it come out and go right up in the air like a dryer or is there a force behind blowing it out a few feet from the house ??

[beenthere]

Depends on the firing rate.

[cvcman]

acman, ok I will tell you, lol IF you use outside air you are NOT taking inside humid air . My neighbor let them take outside air and then had humidity problems after that in an already humid sealed up tight house. They then came back and removed the outside air pipe and took the inside air like most furnaces do and their prior furnace did and guess what, no more humidity problem !

It may only be a small amount but it was enough to make a difference.:p

I dont want to take the chance as my home is the same year builder etc so every installer I have had here said NO prblem, even Rheems ad says otpional inside or outside combustion air.

I dont mind some fresh air being drawn into the house from outside due to using inside air for combustion. My current furnace has been doing this for years !

[beenthere]

WHY do you think outside combustion air would add humidity to the home?

Some houses. After you pull the old ND furnace. notice an increase in humidity, because they are no longer bringing in as much dry outdoor air.
So a house that has high humidity in the winter, will have higher with 2 pipe.

[I_bend_metal]

acman, ok I will tell you, lol IF you use outside air you are NOT taking inside humid air . My neighbor let them take outside air and then had humidity problems after that in an already humid sealed up tight house. They then came back and removed the outside air pipe and took the inside air like most furnaces do and their prior furnace did and guess what, no more humidity problem !

It may only be a small amount but it was enough to make a difference.:p

I dont want to take the chance as my home is the same year builder etc so every installer I have had here said NO prblem, even Rheems ad says otpional inside or outside combustion air.

I dont mind some fresh air being drawn into the house from outside due to using inside air for combustion. My current furnace has been doing this for years !


Ok....no more DIY for you

[cvcman]

I am not doing it myself I am going thru a Rheem rep and have had 3 different ones here as well as spoken to Rheem,sorry;)

Thanks beenthere thats what I was trying to say:D

[acmanhoney]

wow
what area are you in?
around here we add humidity in the winter.
if its so humid you are willing to trade life and efficiency of your furnace you have bigger problems, maybe get a dehumidifier? this isnt the purpose of your high eff furnace.

[fixitguy]

Hardware cloth here in Oregon works great.. Have to keep the mice out too.
I've taken them outa induced blower with the exhaust TWO FEET ABOVE the roof..they sure can jump great....[birds too]

[cvcman]

Upstate NY probablly not so much the area as the tightness of the house. I keep my basement at 50% yr round. Rheem said the efficency diff was negliable and life expect was same as taking outside air, is there evidence contrary to their info ?

I dont want to hurt the unit but many reps have told me they have used inside air ith no problems ???

[cvcman]

Oh and the purpose of the new furnace is to replace an oil burning with Natural gas, I do want the efficiency but again how much of a diff do YOU think there is ? Rheem didnt see it but maybe they really dont know:cool:

[acmanhoney]

inside air is much more polluted than out especially if you are so tight, bad air= incomplete combustion;)
i think big pic and long run.
there is a reason they reccomend you pull from outside or the chamber would be open. its a benefit and a feature, you should use it

[cvcman]

ok, I see your side BUT Rheem does say "optional inside or outside air" If it was that bad i would assume they would NOT give the option. Others here, installers, have said its "not a problem"

The inside air method has been used for years with no problems. I am getting a 10 year parts and labor warranty too ! Again if there is any evidence showing a big loss in efficiency pls let me know but according to the manufacturer there is not.

I realy dont even have a good place to run a 2 pipe system due to my basement being 3/4 finished. What do you see as the worst possile problem using inside air ?

Thank you :)

[Jack2007]

Yeah, my name is "but-in-ski" however lookie;

Homes need to breathe. Fresh air is needed for combustion in furnaces, fireplaces, wood stoves, gas water heaters and clothes dryers.

As people make their homes more energy efficient by sealing cracks, adding insulation and doing other things to prevent heat loss, homes can become starved for air.

This is especially true when you're using exhaust fans and vented appliances which draw more and more air from inside the house; air from the outside can be pulled into the home, possibly down the furnace vent or fireplace chimney. This is called "backdrafting" and can cause carbon monoxide (CO) to form.http://www.blueflame.org/datasheets/combustair.html

[Jack2007]

Additional consideration;
To prevent homes from becoming starved for air, the Minnesota Uniform Mechanical Code requires that all new homes be built with a special duct that brings outside air directly to the heating system.

All furnace and boiler installations in existing homes are also required to have a combustion air duct.

.

[acmanhoney]

what jack said is your worst.....scary huh
do you want your unit to only last 10years?

rust your heat exchanger and then check efficiency.

well kept unit will give you 20

its an option because it can operate, but its not ideal. 90+ units are designed with two pipes. oxygen is needed for combustion so you can pull it from anywhere but why not use it like it was designed.

damp basement= dehumidifier not high efficiency furnace, you can do it either way but one way is better.

[cvcman]

serious ? I now have a 100k btu input 80 output oil funace that uses inside air for combustion. I will now be using a 60k input Natural Gas furnace that will too use inside combustion air.

Which furnace will use more air ?

Also IF I took air form outside why does the pipe have to run right next to the exhaust ? If I do as Rheem says I can and use inside air the inside pipe is no where near the outside pipe ???


This really is a great site and I DO appreciate ALL of yor ideas and thoughts

[cmajerus]

Check your local codes also, here if you only use 1 pipe you would have to add a 4-6" combustion air intake to the home. (actually it is required anyway due to water heater,dryer,bathfans, ect.)

As I suggested in one of your other threads, to combat your humidity issues you should have a air exchanger installed, as should your neighbor. That is how you keep a tight home healthy.

[acmanhoney]

As I suggested in one of your other threads, to combat your humidity issues you should have a air exchanger installed, as should your neighbor. That is how you keep a tight home healthy.


ERV/air exhange units are excellent and worth every penny. i would put one in my house tight or not.

is there a return in the basement?

[acmanhoney]

serious ? I now have a 100k btu input 80 output oil funace that uses inside air for combustion. I will now be using a 60k input Natural Gas furnace that will too use inside combustion air.

Which furnace will use more air ?

Also IF I took air form outside why does the pipe have to run right next to the exhaust ? If I do as Rheem says I can and use inside air the inside pipe is no where near the outside pipe ???


This really is a great site and I DO appreciate ALL of yor ideas and thoughts

thats a drastic drop in btu's! how did they decide on sizing? if you dont wanna do double pipe, why not go with 80%

[beenthere]

thats a big jumpo! if you dont wanna do double pipe, why not go with 80%
No reason to stay with 80%, 90% with single pipe works.

[cvcman]

ok lets see if I can respond to all': why choose an 80 or 90% when Rheem says my efficenicy will not be hurt by taking inside air, at least not much ? So shouldnt I go for the higher efficenicy ?

Each rep did a heat loss and said my oil furnace was way ovesized. They all said 60k was enough for my 1100 sf ft ranch hoe with new windows and good insullition.

I dont have a gas dryer or gas water heater, dont want either. Have elecrtric on night meter bill is cheap !

I would assume that 1 pipe is fine here as EVERY rep that looked said No Problem, not even one said it was a problem !

Can anyone tell me why I have to have the exhaust and intake run next to each other IF I take both outside. Again if I use inside combustion th two wont be near each other ???

Heat exchanger will not rust, both ss ;)

Also still wondering which furnace will use more air my exsisting oil or the new gas ??

Does anyone here have facts to show a big loss in efficiency using inside air, if so pls advise me because again even Rheem said there was not a big diff ,,,

did I miss anything ??:confused:

[cvcman]

sorry for the bad spelling, I can;t type worth s%$t

[beenthere]

thats a drastic drop in btu's! how did they decide on sizing? if you dont wanna do double pipe, why not go with 80%
Whats causing a drop in BTU's?

[cmajerus]

the 2 pipes can be as far apart as you want, just most require them to be out the same wall ie: east,west,north,south whatever. the issue with only one pipe is it is using indoor air, and in a tight home that may mean running out of combustion air(unlikely but possible.) Should be fine, will not void warranties as it is a factory option. Just make sure there is some form of intake air in the home. If the home is as tight as you claim I would guess there was something there already for the old oil furnace.

[acmanhoney]

Whats causing a drop in BTU's?

hes going from a 100000 to 60000

[acmanhoney]

Heat exchanger will not rust, both ss ;)



lol

[cmajerus]

hes going from a 100000 to 60000

not a big surprise we do it here all the time. Most furnaces here were oversized, they were all installed with the curbside finger load calc. 1 finger 60k, 2 finger 80 k, 3 finger 100k:D

[beenthere]

hes going from a 100000 to 60000
See a lot of 100, to 125's in homes that never needed more then 60 ro 80,000.

[acmanhoney]

not a big surprise we do it here all the time. Most furnaces here were oversized, they were all installed with the curbside finger load calc. 1 finger 60k, 2 finger 80 k, 3 finger 100k:D

lol, i thought that was ac sizing technique.

do you do load calc to resize or just do it?

[cvcman]

did I say somethign funny ? Are you saying the SS heat exchanger will rust ?? My 15 yr old furnace in my basement now doesnt have a speck of rust on it so im confused.

I sure wish with all the other opinions here someone would EXPLAIN how much efficency they think I will loose going single pipe instead of double. I am curious as to the diff in opinion between here and the so called experts at Rheem.

Also my ? on why the 2 pipes need to be run next to each other if when taking inside air they are not.

Do you guys really think I would be better going with the single stage Classic 90 plus if im going single pipe and if so why ??:)

[cmajerus]

lol, i thought that was ac sizing technique.

do you do load calc to resize or just do it?it works with both:eek:

but yes we do a load calc.

[beenthere]

You are falling into to TMI overload.
Relax.
The furnace will work fine with indoor air also.

[cvcman]

what is TMI ? Overload is a very good posibility, one last time Classic 90 plus or 2 stage IF using sngle pipe ??

Thanks guys !

[beenthere]

Too
Much
Information

Single or 2 pipe has no bearing on witch one you should choose.

How much money youo want to save, and how comfortable do you want to be is youor choice. We don't live in your house. Nor do we have to live with your decision.

[cmajerus]

did I say somethign funny ? Are you saying the SS heat exchanger will rust ?? My 15 yr old furnace in my basement now doesnt have a speck of rust on it so im confused.

I sure wish with all the other opinions here someone would EXPLAIN how much efficency they think I will loose going single pipe instead of double. I am curious as to the diff in opinion between here and the so called experts at Rheem.

Also my ? on why the 2 pipes need to be run next to each other if when taking inside air they are not.

Do you guys really think I would be better going with the single stage Classic 90 plus if im going single pipe and if so why ??:)have them do an efficiency test to see what you end up with, my guess is .000001% less. don't worry about the efficiency dropping it would be minimal if at all.

[cvcman]

hmmm gotcha, so.. the 2 stage would be more comfortable than the Classic 99 and either would be more efficient than my oil furnace now right ?

And going single pipe or two pipe with either would probably NOT be a noticable diff in efficency right ?

I need some Valium:rolleyes:

[beenthere]

hmmm gotcha, so.. the 2 stage would be more comfortable than the Classic 99 and either would be more efficient than my oil furnace now right ?

And going single pipe or two pipe with either would probably NOT be a noticable diff in efficency right ?

I need some Valium:rolleyes:
All I got is Vicodine. :)

[cvcman]

The Vic is probably worth more than the Mod furnace !:o

[House]

The Vic is probably worth more than the Mod furnace !:o

No pricing here, remember? :)

How old is your house?

[cvcman]

oh yea, Hey I didnt say a price so bck off jack:p

My house was built in 1955:D

[cvcman]

I thought that someone said if you go straight with the exhaust it had to come out at least 12" from the house ?? I only wanted it out like 3 or 4" problem ?

Then I thought they said if you go with a 45 it could be close to the house ???:confused:

[arc8]

What happen to the bird?
Did he make a home while you were on this thread?

anyway, about your questions!


ok if they run my exhaust out the rear wall of the house how do you keep birds etc out of the pipe ??

It's true, elbows help prevent birds from entering in. We don't install screens of any kind in exhaust vents due it frosting and freezing up especially 2" PVC vents.


i wonder if putting a 90 deg downturn would work too, mine will be about 3 ft off the ground ??

3 feet from grade and 7' from the soffit, i would put a 45, it looks much better. 3 to 4" from the wall is okay too.


I already know the pros and cons of taking inside air for combustion

Maybe you don't.
Do you have a fresh-air/make-air/combustion-air in your house?
Anytime we do new furnace installation we are required to install a fresh-air! Sometimes this is all you need for taking care of your humidity problems. But if you have alot of negative pressure and exhaust air on top of it, you might be better off with an HRV or ERV(Air exchanger). You might be running that furnace more than you need to.
The point is the furnace is better off with combustion air connected!
I notice these so-called high efficiency furnaces without a completely sealed combustion chambers having more than often requiring more cleaning of the flame sensors. And even more with no combustion air from outside!!!


Can anyone tell me why I have to have the exhaust and intake run next to each other IF I take both outside. Again if I use inside combustion th two wont be near each other ???

Pressure balance, or equal pressurization!
Did you know that when there is even a slight wind that all four walls N S E W can have different pressures? Yes it does happen. Manufacturer's recommend and i recommend that when all possible, install them in the same area as close as possible. I ran into too many nuisance lockouts due too windy days affecting these pressure trips. And if i might add, i think they look better together and if i might go further, whenever possible use a bazooka instead!


I sure wish with all the other opinions here someone would EXPLAIN how much efficency they think I will loose going single pipe instead of double. I am curious as to the diff in opinion between here and the so called experts at Rheem.

Not much, i think!
Perhaps this will help. The other reason why PVC terminations should go together is the burning of air, the pressures are basically equal(exhaust & intake). I'm not an expert of the burning process, but i always wonder about if the pressures were a little off; pressure difference; would it burn worst (not as efficient)! Any ideas out there Pro's.

[cvcman]

lol well I have so many different answers. 7 ft from the soffitt what if that is not possible ? I have seen people use a 45 about 2 ft below the soffit, how could this happen ??:eek:

Others here have said screen ok you say NO , ??:cool:

NOONE has ever said they are "required" to install fresh air, ??:rolleyes:

As for the pressure and balance of the 2 pipe, how will it be the same if the comb pipe is in the basement and the exhaust is outside which by the way Rheem said was fine ??:rolleyes:

so to sum it up I have seen many exhaust closer than 7ft to the soffit what is the main isue with the 7 ft statement ?? If its closer than 7 ft to the soffit can using a 45 make it ok ?:cool:

But can the pipe just go out straight instead of an elbow ? Or does the pipe then have to go straight out 12" or more past the siding:cool: ??

Its really confusing all the different answers but .....

The bird is still building in my neighbors pipe :D

[arc8]

lol well I have so many different answers. 7 ft from the soffitt what if that is not possible ? I have seen people use a 45 about 2 ft below the soffit, how could this happen ??

Around here we are allowed a minimum of 18" from the soffit.


Others here have said screen ok you say NO , ??

Because up here it gets below freezing temps, and has a good tendency to freeze up, a very definite possibility.


NOONE has ever said they are "required" to install fresh air, ??

Maybe it isn't required there ooor maybe they did not want to do it. i dunno.
Was there an inspector there?


As for the pressure and balance of the 2 pipe, how will it be the same if the comb pipe is in the basement and the exhaust is outside which by the way Rheem said was fine ??

Yes there can be a pressure imbalance between anywhere outside and the inside! Rheem's is not the only one that does allow this. But remember the inside air is not as dense as the outside air can be, it's more consistent.


so to sum it up I have seen many exhaust closer than 7ft to the soffit what is the main isue with the 7 ft statement ?? If its closer than 7 ft to the soffit can using a 45 make it ok ?

read first statement! 45 elbow is okay!


But can the pipe just go out straight instead of an elbow ? Or does the pipe then have to go straight out 12" or more past the siding ??

Yes if you prefer, but i don't like the looks. it does not have to stick out 12" unless the manufacturer says it should!


Its really confusing all the different answers but .....

Please don't be!!!


The bird is still building in my neighbors pipe

Now go tell him what to do!

[cvcman]

Arc;

note in your other post you said "3 feet from grade and 7' from the soffit, i would put a 45, it looks much better. 3 to 4" from the wall is okay too

now you say 18" from soffit ????:rolleyes:

And IF it is closer than 7 ft or 18" lol to the soffit would using a 45 make that ok ??

[arc8]

No no no.
Sorry, but I did not mean to tell you 3' is a minimum, or 7' is a minimum.
You gave me these dimensions. i was simply, so i thought, saying you have 3' below and 7' above, put a 45 elbow, it would look nice!

Question: did the installing contractors leave you the operating manual? sometimes the venting is describe in there giving you rules and limitations and exceptions!!

[flange]

The original question was about birds, what gives? dont all units come with the little precut birdscreen that you put in there? and if not, cant you just cut a piece and put it in there? Why not make up little bird-sized signs telling them to keep out?

[dtp75]

Sorry but I have to throw this in. But a single pipe two stage unit is going to be less efficient than a single pipe single stage. Longer run time.

[flange]

Uhhh...in the world in which I live and work, efficiency is gained by longer run time. The idea is that you waste less energy up the stack, or out the pvc vent by cold firing. You need to spend some energy to warm up the venting at the start of each firing cycle, prior to getting to what we refer to as "Steady state". You have longer run times, but less input btu's, and better comfort levels. Of course, maybe I was taught wrong during my upbringing.

[cvcman]

wow :confused: 3ft below and 7 ft above what does that mean ?? Are you saying where the pipe exits it has to be 3 ft BELOW the soffit and NO closer or can it be as close as 18" ????:rolleyes:

I guess I am asking how close to the soffit CAN the exhaust be IF using a 45 at exit ? The installers say it cn be within 12" below the soffit if I use a 45 at the siding as the fumes will be plumed out and wont rise up in the soffit anyway ??

Again this is going out the wall of the garage so the soffit is the soffit over the garage.

So many different answers and opinions on efficiency, piping, btu's etc it IS confusing:(

How close to the siding can it be I mean can the 45 be installed right at the siding ??

7 ft above are you saying if it went out thru the soffit it has to stick up 7 ft???:rolleyes:

I dont have the manual yet as it is not installed yet:D

and the single pipe 2 stage is still really running 2 pipes its just one is taking inside air and AGAIN Rheem said " NO problem"

I dont think any of them come with precut bird screens and these birds dont read, much like other people I know;)

[t527ed]

unless manufacturer specs allow some kind of screening i would not put anything on it.

since 1982 i have taken exactly 1 bird out of a venting system for a 90+ furnace and that was in the intake.

took 1 plastic easter egg out of another one.......:D


have had a couple with mud wasps in them but screening small enough to keep them out would probably cause a freeze up.:cool:



as far as your job goes unless i could run a 2 pipe system i would refuse to do it, house air is just to nasty to run through a flame and then condense the water out of.........:o

[cvcman]

thanks t527 guess im glad I didnt get you to quote it,lol really i understand but again I have talked to MANY experts including Rheem and no issues, hope it works out. Just curious what you see as the major problem doing it ?


Dont majority of furnaces take inside air ? Many here have told me they see a good share of single pipe systems ????
Oh well thanks just the same :D

[cvcman]

lets keep this post at the top:D

I think I will go with the 2 stage, thanks guys a lot !!!

[Twilly]

Twilli wonders where is Plexus?

[Jack2007]

Twilli wonders where is Plexus?
Plexus Dr
Oxford, MI 48371
or
Plexus Cir,
Oxford, Oakland, MI 48371
.

[cvcman]

good question Twilli, I was just gettin ready to ask where you was:rolleyes:

And here you is :)

[Twilly]

Twilli says you worrying to much.

[cvcman]

worrying, hey I resemble that remark:rolleyes: Figured sooner or later someone hee would offer to supply the furnace and install for free just to help out :eek:

[I_bend_metal]

This is the longest damned thread I have ever seen about some damned chicken wire!!!

WTF??? It's summer now, shove a Busch Light can in there and worry about it in the fall!!

[cvcman]

Humm Busch, huh, I resemble that remark too;) I dont even have the pipe or furnace yet.

Still watching the swallows building their nest in my neighbors discharge, figure when they dont have heat they will call and ask me :D

[mayguy]

This has been used for years by Trane.
http://www.roboteq.info/side-wall-vent.jpg

Never seen any birds in these.

Also, I think having the intake pipe going outside will make the furnace more quiet.

[cmajerus]

This has been used for years by Trane.
http://www.roboteq.info/side-wall-vent.jpg

Never seen any birds in these.

Also, I think having the intake pipe going outside will make the furnace more quiet.Oh I have!!! they love em, looks just like a birdhouse. Not too many, but I have pulled lots of nest out of all kinds of venting, worst seem to be
Class B out the side wall on garage heater. How the hell those swallows get in the high winds caps I will never know, but at Frontenac Golf course I pull one out every fall.

[mayguy]

Oh I have!!! they love em, looks just like a birdhouse. Not too many, but I have pulled lots of nest out of all kinds of venting, worst seem to be
Class B out the side wall on garage heater. How the hell those swallows get in the high winds caps I will never know, but at Frontenac Golf course I pull one out every fall.

Well, better quit putting birdfood in there! Unless Steve is doing it to make a service call for you guys. :-)

[t527ed]

thanks t527 guess im glad I didnt get you to quote it,lol really i understand but again I have talked to MANY experts including Rheem and no issues, hope it works out. Just curious what you see as the major problem doing it ?


Dont majority of furnaces take inside air ? Many here have told me they see a good share of single pipe systems ????
Oh well thanks just the same :D


when you take contaminants from inside air and burn them you change the chemical compounds. then you are going to condense it in the secondary heat exchanger and have that stuff eating the furnace from the inside out. just because it is stainless does not make it indestructable.

the other ongoing problem you will hace is build up from the contaminents on the flame sensor that will have to be removed and cleaned on a regular basis. on a 90+ furnace this can be a real pita.

majority of furnaces that use inside air are 80% efficiency furnaces and they don't form condensation if working properly.

[beenthere]

the other ongoing problem you will hace is build up from the contaminents on the flame sensor that will have to be removed and cleaned on a regular basis. on a 90+ furnace this can be a real pita.

majority of furnaces that use inside air are 80% efficiency furnaces and they don't form condensation if working properly.

Won't have to clean the flame sensor on a 90% using ID air, anymore then on a 80% using ID air.

[smokin68]

Just wrap a rubber snake around the exhaust pipe....problem solved.:) The mesh is for insects...

[t527ed]

Won't have to clean the flame sensor on a 90% using ID air, anymore then on a 80% using ID air.



yea but i can clean the 80% sensor in about 10 seconds...;)



some of the 90's can be a challenge to get to.

[gasoilair]

wow, 87 posts about a pipe..:rolleyes:

I think she said the house was built in 1955? If this is the case, then there's loads of makeup air. Shoot, you could probably move the exhaust inside and not notice a difference. (That would solve the bird problem too. Bonus!)

[gasoilair]

Just wrap a rubber snake around the exhaust pipe....problem solved.:) The mesh is for insects...

LMFAO, brings back memories. I told a customer to do this a long time ago to deal with the birds, so he said he would take care of it. Two days later, his wife called at 1am and said the heat was out. I got there and there was this huge friggin rubber rattlesnake stuffed all the way into the vent with just it's head sticking out.

[cvcman]

well I guess im glad I have a 10 yr parts and labor warranty. If inside air was that much an issue I wish the techs at Rheem would know this info:rolleyes:

Also out of 3 different reps here and Carrier and Bryant everyone said no problem, we are going to go with it if its a big issue we will have to change it. I have more than enough makeup air my 102k btu oil furnace has been using the inside air for years:D

I hope my rep knows how to clean the dirty stuff:D

[cmajerus]

well I guess im glad I have a 10 yr parts and labor warranty. If inside air was that much an issue I wish the techs at Rheem would know this info:rolleyes:

Also out of 3 different reps here and Carrier and Bryant everyone said no problem, we are going to go with it if its a big issue we will have to change it. I have more than enough makeup air my 102k btu oil furnace has been using the inside air for years:D

I hope my rep knows how to clean the dirty stuff:D10 yr p&l doesn't cover dirty flame sensors so that won't help ya. But if you have a yearly clean and tune it will be a non issue anyway. BTW get a yearly clean and tune:D

[cvcman]

how hard is it to clean this sensor on a 2 stage ?? I asked Rheem and they said it wouldn't get any dirtier than any other furnace and combustion either inside or outside wouldnt matter on the flame sensor ???


Is this something that can be cleaned easy ??:cool:

[cmajerus]

kind of, they are harder than some, but not as bad as others. Nothing to worry about if you have it serviced.

[I_bend_metal]

how hard is it to clean this sensor on a 2 stage ?? I asked Rheem and they said it wouldn't get any dirtier than any other furnace and combustion either inside or outside wouldnt matter on the flame sensor ???


Is this something that can be cleaned easy ??:cool:

Just have your new stuff serviced once a year and don't sweat the small stuff!!!

[arc8]

how hard is it to clean this sensor on a 2 stage ?? I asked Rheem and they said it wouldn't get any dirtier than any other furnace and combustion either inside or outside wouldnt matter on the flame sensor ???


oh yeah!
maybe where you are at...
but here, the homes have more chemicals and lint or whatever they have compared to the fresh air, really making a difference.
Perhaps it is more polluted out there than here!

[cvcman]

our insdie air is clean here:D
Now when Twilli comes over after beans and bacon thats another story:eek:

Outside air is clean too. We will see how it wors out thanks again fellas;)

[rvtweener]

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[HeyBob]

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