Vulcan Steamer.....

[generaltech1]

m#: VHL2G

Ignition locks out
If it does fire, it sounds like a train.

Any ideas?

[Moose]

www.vulcanhart.com..... have you checked the gas pressures? Flue? traps? :)

[generaltech1]

Hey Moose...Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

[H-Tech]

I think this model has flame rod in it down the burner tube. these burners have been updated to pick up combustion air. These flame rods have to be properly adjusted as to not miss fire. If out of adjustment or worn they will sound like h##l. Also the it sound fire up into high burn after pilot with out lag. if that is correct you may have air screen on blower out of adjustment or dirty.

[generaltech1]

Hey H-T, Yes it does have a spark rod, & I downloaded the manual but it says nothing about rod adjustment. It doesnt appear to have any specific information. Can you enlighten me?
Thanks-
Jerry

[H-Tech]

I think this model sets like the vhx 24g. If the unit has the new style combustion proving switch that is sensing on the manifold. the rod has a cord grip holding it in the burner. From tip of spark plug tip to end of the cord grip it is 1 1/8- 1 3/4. Put a mark on porcelain fire unit if it don't clean fire rotate rod retry. make sure the rod is clean. They are terrible about fouling. Also make sure the ground wire is good to burner and the grounding tit is clean on air screen on the end of burner.

[generaltech1]

Can I call you or chat about this unit? It also seems to be dumping water constantly, I ordered a pressure valve for it, and although the p/n is right, the pressure rating is wrong. The one on the unit is 475psi the one that shipped was 438. Ive tried VulcanHart, but theyre not much help.

TIA
Jerry

[H-Tech]

It's dumping water? From drain or pop off valve? This unit has 2 pop off valves one is set at 13psi and the other is 15 psi. Did you get the unit fired properly? If so what was the steam pressure? It should be burner off at 9-10 psi steam and cycle on at 5-6. This is for vhx 24 g which is in the same family. I know the valves are the same I just looked at parts breakdown. This unit has a condensate cooling valve is this what is leaking? Leave me a way to get in touch and I will help with what I can.

[H-Tech]

You get it running?

[generaltech1]

Hey HT, sorry I didnt get back to you sooner, but I have been EXTREMELY busy. Anyway not as yet, and I pulled the burner assy out and for the 2nd time the insulator is cracked/broken, tips are fouled, and doesnt want to fire. I really need some specifics on how to align it properly.
Also yes it dumps water constantly, even when off/unplugged.
Please respond ASAP thx
Jerry

[H-Tech]

I know busy I have did over 17 grand since Tuesday morning. You can get part number from vulcan site on probe or hobart office don't know how close to you they are. This unit has water fill solenoid that could have trash in it or the condenser solenoid. they or in the control box on left had side follow your tubing to see which is what. I think top is fill. Also this has a condenser t-stat this could be allowing to run due to out of adjustment. You will need probe to get to fire proper. clean the grounding post with emory cloth if not you will have to get a burner that part isn't sold by itself if it is eroded away. then follow the other post I left.to set up.These unit are very sensitive and have to be tuned in.

[generaltech1]

Is there anywhere to get an actual technical service manual for this unit. The Vulcan manual I was able to download from thier site(Installation and Operation) is of no help at all ? I have a 3rd, yes 3rd, ignitor/sensor rod on the way, probably going to replace tommorow, so I really need to know how to set this correctly, as far as gap/position.
Heres whats happened so far. I cleaned the burner assy, ground tip, and the little area on the end of the burner that i'm guessing is the area where its supposed to arc, and the screen. Im also guessing that flame rectification is used to prove the pilot to light off the main valve. And by that I mean the pilot completes the circuit between sensor and ground tip, correct?
It seens as though after the rods have been replaced, it works really well for about 3 days before it starts to act up again. Then, when I inspect the rod, the insulator is all broken at the end. So I assume its not positioned correctly, lp gas pressure is right on the money.
I was told that there was a Hobart service manager that came out to look at it a while back and after about 1500 in parts, it started acting up again. So im not exactly sure where to go from here, but I need to get it solved

Thanks for any and all advice you can give,

Jerry

[Boswell]

I worked for Hobart for a short time. They have pretty tight security on their manuals. The only way to get the tech manuals is to actually go to the Hobart Cooking equipment school in Troy Ohio. I was scheduled to go two weeks after they laid me off. The manuals do exist in CD form but I worked for Hobart and I could never get a copy. I'm sorry, that is no help but it is important information. Vulcan is a subsidiary of Hobart which is a subsidiary of ITW which is a Fortune 50 company. That was not a typo Fortune 50 not Fortune 500.

[H-Tech]

Boswell is right on manuals from hobart you can't get them. I'm at a lose if it's doing that . If it is firing correctly for 3 days then stops could you gas valve be leaking by and and giving it a boom when it lights? What was the water leaking from? Could possibly the boiler be filled with scale over heating burner chamber I know I'm giving some strange what if's but I'm puzzled at what this units doing. I wish I had better advice.

Boswell It must be slow if Hobart lays off hate to hear you got laid off what area you in?

[generaltech1]

Well, I was able to get a technical service manual from Vulcan, and thier tech support people are very helpful, that is if you can get through on the phone. After downloading and reading the manual I have a much better understanding as to the sequence of operation and proper setup and adjustments. As of Friday, I spent most of my afternoon babysitting the steamer by playing with the broken ignitor rod just to keep it going. As yet I havent addressed the continuous water dumping issue. But as I was babysittting, I noticed that after it cycled a few times the pressure went up to about 13+ and dumped, is that normal? Also, the guy I spoke to at Vulcan mentioned that when aligning the burner/spark, the insulator should protrude approx 1/4"-3/8" out of the nut, the spark gap should be .090-.0100" and something(I wasnt able to get clarification) should be in the 1-5 o'clock position, does this sound familiar to you?

[fireye03]

Well, I was able to get a technical service manual from Vulcan, and thier tech support people are very helpful, that is if you can get through on the phone. After downloading and reading the manual I have a much better understanding as to the sequence of operation and proper setup and adjustments. As of Friday, I spent most of my afternoon babysitting the steamer by playing with the broken ignitor rod just to keep it going. As yet I havent addressed the continuous water dumping issue. But as I was babysittting, I noticed that after it cycled a few times the pressure went up to about 13+ and dumped, is that normal? Also, the guy I spoke to at Vulcan mentioned that when aligning the burner/spark, the insulator should protrude approx 1/4"-3/8" out of the nut, the spark gap should be .090-.0100" and something(I wasnt able to get clarification) should be in the 1-5 o'clock position, does this sound familiar to you?
generaltech,
i have been following this thread,i was curious about the outcome.
unfortunately i have no advice for you,i don't work on hot side equipment.
is possible to e-mail me the link to that tech manual? i'm always looking to read and learn new things.
e-mail is in my profile.
thanks

[H-Tech]

If unit is dumping at 13.5 that would be normal due to the 13 psi pop-off valve. You will need to set cycle pressure switch down to shut unit off sooner.

[H-Tech]

did you get it going??

[generaltech1]

Im sorry that I havent gotten back to you on this, but let me give you an update. I have since replaced 2 additional flame rods, and I am still getting an intermittant roaring noise. As of late, Vulcan has been useless as tits on a bull! I have called and emailed them several times to no avail!
The last flame rod that I replaced I set the spark gap at about .095, and all has been good so far, except for the intermittant roaring noise, which I cant seem to figure out why it does that. The head chef cornered me the other day to tell me that the roaring/rumbling was so loud one night that it was heard in the restaurant and it sounded as though the whole damn building was rumbling. I am considering replacing the gas valve, as I suspect that it may be malfunctioning intermittantly. I have checked supply and manifold pressures and they appear to be within spec, at the time. Any additional advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jerry

[H-Tech]

This unit should have a diffussor on the intake of the fan blower. I have seen them either dirty or need to be turned a little. I have had the flame rod be worn and give same harmonics. I think this unit has the ceramic sleeve on burner and if it has miss fired alot it could have busted it. I have had one of the vhx 24g roar so bad it scared the sh-t out of me. Worse case I have had same unit crack burner casting and look like a steam train with fire and soot blasting out stack. Sometimes you can rotate the location of L bend on flame rod by loosening nut and turning a little have to be careful or it won't pickup flame. Let me know if I can be any help.I These unit had some burner modifacation on them. Vulcan changed where the combustion approve switch picked up air from.

[generaltech1]

I have changed out the whole flame rod/burner assy, set the spark gap within spec, and I still get the intermittant roaring, sometimes mild, other times very loud. Any ideas?

[H-Tech]

I know these things can be a pain ! I have to work on them every day. Did you tryy turning air defussor ring?

[generaltech1]

Turn the air diffuser ring? Im not sure what you mean by the air diffuser ring.

[H-Tech]

On the combustion blower motor

[generaltech1]

I havent been that far into it, dont really have the luxury of tearing it down as it is used most of the day and night. What I have seen is the view thru the combustion to the blower wheel, didnt see anything past the burner assy. Once i've removed the burner assy, the blower wheel is fully visible, and there didnt appear to be any type of diffuser. What does it look like?

[H-Tech]

send me your number and i give you a call to see If I can help more.

[generaltech1]

Well i'm not at work right now.....

[H-Tech]

Thats cool I I have to fly under radar due to who I work for. They frown on us giving out to much info.

[generaltech1]

That would be cool though, but there is a problem that my cell doesnt work in the kitchen by the steamer.
The steamer is set up similar to the VHX24G, and I just noticed from looking at the manual again that although the steamer has the new style controls, the air pressure switch is not in the same position as shown in the picture.
BTW what is your name?

[generaltech1]

To be clear, it has the new style controls, but the air pressure is in the old position.

[H-Tech]

is it picking up the combustion proving on the phenalic tube around the flame rod ? This has a hole in it and the pressure is suppose to go through and it has to be in the up position. that is the old style and the pressure switch is not mounted in the stainless 90. If it is it is new style . The deffusor ring is on the blower motor intake. i have taken them of and some you have to play balancing act to get them from raising cain. If the air flow in room is crazy they will moan like a cow.

[H-Tech]

Another thing to keep the phennalic tube on you will need to wrap teflon tape to keep it in position or it will fall off. That will give you air problems.to get new style burner with air pick up up it is I think about 2000

[generaltech1]

It has the hole that has to be straight up, but as I said, the pressure switch isnt on the stainless.

[generaltech1]

Incidentally, what size/type of screws are used for the combustion chamber cover, vulcan didnt have a clue, and as many times that this has been take apart, they need to be replaced.

[H-Tech]

That was one of the improvements made to correct burner miss firing and bad harmonic. Was moving the air sense on this unit.

[generaltech1]

Do you have a part # for the upgrade? And was that that correct, $2000.00?!!

[H-Tech]

You talking about the 10-24x1/2 that they are about 6 of them phillips head on the round ring.

[generaltech1]

Yes 6 philips head

[H-Tech]

I can get that number for you and I pretty sure of price. It may be more.

[H-Tech]

Almost sure of the size. i take them off don't pay much attention to them. I sure either 10/24 or 10/32.

[generaltech1]

Holy Crap! $2000.00!!!?? There has been at least 7G in parts put into this thing already!
Oh and the screws, there may be 8, im not sure right now.

[generaltech1]

Hobart Service Manager was out before I got here and they threw about 7g in parts at it and the problem continued. if I could get it solve I would be a freekin' hero, but 2G?

[H-Tech]

Wait till you have to put a boiler tank in the unit and if it is used alot with out filtration on water(hard water) you will need one it is about 100.00 cheaper than the whole steamer new. I have quoted 2 to the same custormer both of his took a dump a week apart. Some times the problem you describe can be from a stopped up tank. Have you opened up boiler and looked inside? The unit s have an annoid in the that go away after a year then the scale attacks tank and burner sleeve.

[H-Tech]

Easy on the hsm. These things can be a money pit!!!!

[generaltech1]

It has an anode rod, like a water heater tank?

[generaltech1]

I sympathize with the HSM, I felt the same way that these units are a $$$$ pit!

[H-Tech]

Kinda it hangs in the tank does same job

[generaltech1]

So...what is our name?

[H-Tech]

Like I said I have to fly under the radar. Company does search sites and we get called in and reamed for info giving out info.

[generaltech1]

'nuff said. I appreciate all your help/advice.

[H-Tech]

I'm gonna jump off here I'll try to find those numbers for you and post this weekend. It may be first of week if I can't find in truck.

[generaltech1]

Kewl, thanks!

[H-Tech]

Sorry it took so long to get info. I had to go to the shop and I found info. It ia part number 855400-1 burner enhansment kit. The price of it is $1718.90. It comes with some paper work with it to set it up. It has new board and some other nice stuff.