The rich get richer

[2cool4us]

:eek:Gas and diesel prices continue to escalate at the pump. Unemployment moving upwards. Storm clouds of a recession still gathering. Corporate balance sheets such as these are truly a disturbing mile marker. Not only this mega giant but it's compradres in the same business are making out like bandits. Just an indicator that Bush and his band of thieves are going to get what they can, while they can. :mad:


http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/exxon-mobil-1q-profit-up-17-pct-wall/n20080501114609990027

[k-fridge]

I'm still waiting for some proof that Bush has something to do with this.

[air311]

I'm still waiting for some proof that Bush has something to do with this.

The whole government has something to do with it. They don't want to seriously address the problem. Because, hey, it's a free market, who cares if the average American can barely afford to drive to work, as long as the oil guys keep getting richer, that's all that matters. So we'll keep paying more and more, more people will lose their jobs, and won't be able to put gas in their cars to go look for another job. And even if it could be proved that Bush had sometihng to do with it, you'd say it was a lie anyway.

[scrogdog]

This game called capitolism is sometimes not very good looking. That's because it is essentially survival of the fittest.

The regulatory measures that it would require to reign in big oil scare people with good reason. Once you start down that road, who knows where it will end.

Regulation, my friend, is one very big reason US jobs are lost to other places in the world. Why face stiff regulations when you can go somewhere else? Of course, in my opinion the decision to leave should be based on at least *some* ethics with regards to slave labor and the like.

It's a big messy situation, I agree. But to simply observe that politicians aren't interested in doing anything presents an unfair view in my opinion. Like it or not, our way is capitolism; with all the warts that go with it.

I'll give you this much; I don't particularly like the big margins being reported by big oil right now. Further, there is no "fair competition" in the market because no one is going to adjust prices down in order to sell more gas. Gas will sell at current prices; it's obvious (even though we whine about it). In a free market, the only way this problem goes away is if demand dies.

Regulation is one REALLY BIG can of worms that I'd need a super-compelling reason to support. I'm not sure that reason exists. Because, again, once you start down that road, well, I cringe just thinking about it.

What happens when the government decides that the prices that YOU charge are unfair to consumers, eh? Mighty slippery slope.

[k-fridge]

The whole government has something to do with it. They don't want to seriously address the problem. Because, hey, it's a free market, who cares if the average American can barely afford to drive to work, as long as the oil guys keep getting richer, that's all that matters. So we'll keep paying more and more, more people will lose their jobs, and won't be able to put gas in their cars to go look for another job. And even if it could be proved that Bush had sometihng to do with it, you'd say it was a lie anyway.
I agree that the government hasn't properly addressed the problem. The politicians are more interested in padding their pockets than doing what's right for the country. But I have yet to see any evidence that Bush has any direct connection to rising oil prices.

[air311]

This game called capitolism is sometimes not very good looking. That's because it is essentially survival of the fittest.

The regulatory measures that it would require to reign in big oil scare people with good reason. Once you start down that road, who knows where it will end.

Regulation, my friend, is one very big reason US jobs are lost to other places in the world. Why face stiff regulations when you can go somewhere else? Of course, in my opinion the decision to leave should be based on at least *some* ethics with regards to slave labor and the like.

It's a big messy situation, I agree. But to simply observe that politicians aren't interested in doing anything presents an unfair view in my opinion. Like it or not, our way is capitolism; with all the warts that go with it.

I'll give you this much; I don't particularly like the big margins being reported by big oil right now. Further, there is no "fair competition" in the market because no one is going to adjust prices down in order to sell more gas. Gas will sell at current prices; it's obvious (even though we whine about it). In a free market, the only way this problem goes away is if demand dies.

Regulation is one REALLY BIG can of worms that I'd need a super-compelling reason to support. I'm not sure that reason exists. Because, again, once you start down that road, well, I cringe just thinking about it.

What happens when the government decides that the prices that YOU charge are unfair to consumers, eh? Mighty slippery slope.

I agree that regulating big oil would create an even bigger mess. But there has to be sometihng that can be done. My point was the government isn't even trying. There has to be some kind of deal the government could make with big oil to control the prices. I have no idea what, and sadly the governemnt doesn't either..or they do and just aren't willing. What's amazing is this is an election year, and nobody seems to have a plan..kinda strange.

[scrogdog]

I agree that regulating big oil would create an even bigger mess. But there has to be sometihng that can be done. My point was the government isn't even trying. There has to be some kind of deal the government could make with big oil to control the prices. I have no idea what, and sadly the governemnt doesn't either..or they do and just aren't willing. What's amazing is this is an election year, and nobody seems to have a plan..kinda strange.

Well, I am at a loss to suggest a course of action, as you are. So I can hardly get down on politicians for not coming up with a plan. It would be different if the path was clear, but it really isn't.

[mrs reb77]

And, when no one has a clear idea of what it would take to bring about a solution, by all means let's just blame it on Bush.

See, not logical is it? Without researching it, how much more efficient are vehicle regulations (mpg) today compared to the huge energy crisis back in the 70's? We keep hearing that the only way to get over this is to mandate better fuel efficiency. How far do these people think that will go? I mean, there have been increases but, are they THAT much?

[freddy-b]

When the dollar is weak we pay more. When the dollar is strong we pay less.
We have been so accustomed to the dollar being the king currency around the globe therefor setting the standard, that is no longer the case....so we pay more because our currency's value is worth less abroad.
Not saying that is the only factor, but its a big one.

[mrs reb77]

Found this. http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/
Instead, federal fuel economy standards must be increased to over 40 mpg by 2015 and 55 mpg by 2025. Adopting fuel-efficient vehicle technologies to meet these standards would save three times more oil by 2025 than we could recover from the Arctic refuge. And tapping technology avoids the environmental degradation and air pollution that accompany increased drilling.

Wow. Wonder which cars today actually have those efficiencies.

[scrogdog]

Toyota's hybrid, the Prius, comes in at around 44 mpg overall. It's the most fuel efficient car on the planet at the moment.

[air311]

The new VW diesels average around 42 I think. And much funner to drive than the Prius. That thing is as exciting as a toaster.

[mrs reb77]

For some reason I thought the efficiency regulations were talking about the actual efficiency of the gasoline combustion engine, not in conjunction with electric or other hybrid style propulsion methods.

I mean, my 10-speed gets pretty good gas mileage too ;)

[mrs reb77]

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Fuel_Efficiency_Vehicles
Interesting.

sugar powered cars:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080409170347.htm

[scrogdog]

The new VW diesels average around 42 I think. And much funner to drive than the Prius. That thing is as exciting as a toaster.

Perhaps true, but have you seen the price of diesel fuel? Man! Way more expensive than premium gas. At least where I live.

Plus diesel is smelly. :)

[air311]

Perhaps true, but have you seen the price of diesel fuel? Man! Way more expensive than premium gas. At least where I live.

Plus diesel is smelly. :)

Those new VW diesels aren't smelly. You can only tell it's a diesel when it's idling. And i'd rather pay 4.29 a gallon for diesel to get 42 MPG than pay 3.59 a gallon for gas to fill up a car that gets 22 MPG.

[scrogdog]

For some reason I thought the efficiency regulations were talking about the actual efficiency of the gasoline combustion engine, not in conjunction with electric or other hybrid style propulsion methods.

I mean, my 10-speed gets pretty good gas mileage too ;)

Even without the electric boost, the Prius boasts a number of new technogies that would bring better fuel efficience to any car. Even the combustion engine itself uses the more efficient "Atkinson cycle" rather than the more common "Otto cycle". Lower tires create less friction, air resistance is low, and they get battery power from everywhere, even the brakes.

One thing I found interesting was the referral to the electric operation of the car as "stealth mode". Apparently the electric only mode is very quiet, perhaps even becoming a hazard to the blind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

[2cool4us]

I'm still waiting for some proof that Bush has something to do with this.How about George Sr's. close ties with the Saudi Royals. His handpicked men, "Cheney" being one. The list is too long to quantify. :eek:

[k-fridge]

How about George Sr's. close ties with the Saudi Royals. His handpicked men, "Cheney" being one. The list is too long to quantify. :eek:
Circumstantial. Suspicious, but not proof.

[Snapperhead]

Gas and diesel prices continue to escalate at the pump. Unemployment moving upwards. Storm clouds of a recession still gathering. Corporate balance sheets such as these are truly a disturbing mile marker. Not only this mega giant but it's compradres in the same business are making out like bandits. Just an indicator that Bush and his band of thieves are going to get what they can, while they can.

I tell you what I think , and I might be way wrong .... but am I ? ?

I think the reason we dont drill for oil here isn't because of tree huggers , not because people would complain its in their back yard .... nope .... because we dont have enough to drill for to make it worth while

Sure , we have small pockets all over texas and other places , but no sooner than they get the drilling rig setup , the hole will be sucked dry .

Mexico is running out , Iran has peaked long ago , Canada has peaked long ago . Its going to come to an end one day , especially now that China and Russia are using a ton.

So can you blame everyone trying to make a buck while they can ? Crap I would too .

It all comes down to supply and demand .

Why doesnt anyone talk about the USA not having enough oil to drill for ? Because then we wouldnt have anything to bargain with and stop our neighbors over seas from jacking up the price of oil to the moon . Right now they think we can drill at any time if we wanted to and not need their oil .

Yea right . I just hope someone over in Iran or Venezuela dont see my post ;)

[tunnel_rat]

Who is it that is stopping us from drilling for our own oil, or building new refineries? Ya think it is Bush? It sure ain't the greedy conservatives. I think most of them would like to see us less dependant on foreign oil sources. How much more could he and his so-called "cronies" make if we were to drill our own oil?:rolleyes: Since when did making a profit become some evil thing? If you have a $100 Billion business and you make $107 Billion, guess what? That money goes back into the business, not in W's pocket. Coke had a higher profit margin than "big oil" last go round, but nobody's screaming to take their profits from them. Why not? Not so easy to demagogue Coke. The lemmings all salivate like Pavlov's dog when oil is mentioned. The ignorant, uninformed proletariat get their shorts all wadded up, and stop thinking reasonably. Drill Alaska......:D

[Jack2007]

Here are a few interesting articles;

SAO PAULO, Brazil - A deep-water exploration area could contain as much as 33 billion barrels of oil, an amount that would nearly triple Brazil's reserves and make the offshore bloc the world's third-largest known oil reserve, a top energy official said Monday.

(cut)
"This would lay to rest some of the peak oil pronouncements that we were out of oil, that we weren't going to find any more and that we have to change our way of life," said Roger Read, an energy analyst and managing director at New York-based investment bank Natixis Bleichroeder Inc., which buys and sells stock in offshore drilling contractor Seadrill, a Petrobras contractor
LINK (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-braziloil1508apr15,0,5348725.story)


The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West, Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making deals to sell his country’s oil to China, oil that is currently coming to the United States.
LINK (http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html)
.

[The Doctor]

Maybe we're using everyone else's oil up first intentionally, and then when peak oil turns even worse, and they're all low on reserves, we can bust out the drills and hit ANWR.

Well, I guess that would ONLY be coincidental. Profit is the bottom line in this game. Otherwise oil men would have bought off those politicians and had their refineries and their oil rigs in the Gulf and in ANWR.

By the way, does anyone have any good recipes for "environmentalists"??? Say like let's make some cream of environmentalist wacko soup, or maybe toss the greens into some volcano somewhere? Then we could get out the drills NOW.

[scrogdog]

Canada is ready with technology to expoit it's massive shale oil reserves.

There is a new find in the US that is being termed "mini-persia" or something like that. Could be important and I just read it a few days ago. I'll find it given time. :)

[scrogdog]

Here it is. An important find in the US.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/DakotaOilPersiaOnThePlains.aspx

[bb]

Summary of Reserve Data as of 2007
Country Reserves 1 Production 2 Reserve life 3
(109bbl) (106bbl/d) (years)
Saudi Arabia 260 8.8 81
Canada 179 2.7 182
Iraq 115 3.7 101
Iran 105 2.2 143
Kuwait 99 2.5 108
U. ArabEmirates 97 2.5 107
Venezuela 80 2.4 91
Russia 60 9.5 17
Libya 41.5 1.8 63
Nigeria 36.2 2.3 43
United States 21 4.9 12
Mexico 12 3.2 10

Notes:

1. Claimed or estimated reserves in billions (109) of barrels. (Source: Oil & Gas Journal, January, 2007)
2. Production rate in millions (106) of barrels per day (Source: US Energy Information Authority, September, 2007)
3. Reserve life in years, calculated as reserves / annual production. (from above)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

How long would 21 billion barrels last us. It IS the environmentalist. I say build more refineries and drill the US. If that fails, horizontally drill Canada. :D

What Rig my Canadian Brother, Eh ?:D

[Snapperhead]

yea that chart is pretty close to being right . So according to that , Mexico will be OUT of oil in 10 years . Then their ecomony will be shut down . Then guess where all the rest of the messicans will run to .....

[whec720]

yea that chart is pretty close to being right . So according to that , Mexico will be OUT of oil in 10 years . Then their ecomony will be shut down . Then guess where all the rest of the messicans will run to .....

Where else....sanctuary cities, like L.A. And if Hillary is elected President, she is on the record saying she will do nothing about it!:eek:
She will not enforce federal immigration laws....period.

[Snapperhead]

Well I just hope they open a few more Messican Restaurants when they get here because that stuff is the Yummy .... and very affordable with my family of 5 ;)

[batdude]

the bearded sandal-wearing hippy environmentalists have more access to the Oval Office than the oil company execs?
some of you guys be trippin' !

that international home invasion/armed robbery going on over in Mesopotamia indicates desperation in the face of diminishing oil supply.

it has long been apparent that as soon as the energy companies devise a method to monopolize sunlight and bill everyone for it we would switch to a solar economy immediately.
(yeah, we got a fusion reactor, it's about 93 million miles away, which sounds like good safe distance)

under our current fascist system of government, corporate profits become the end all, be all. and if it turns out that the most profitable course of action happens to be herding the lemmings over the edge of the cliff...

[air311]

Maybe we're using everyone else's oil up first intentionally, and then when peak oil turns even worse, and they're all low on reserves, we can bust out the drills and hit ANWR.

Well, I guess that would ONLY be coincidental. Profit is the bottom line in this game. Otherwise oil men would have bought off those politicians and had their refineries and their oil rigs in the Gulf and in ANWR.

By the way, does anyone have any good recipes for "environmentalists"??? Say like let's make some cream of environmentalist wacko soup, or maybe toss the greens into some volcano somewhere? Then we could get out the drills NOW.

I posted that same theory on a different thread on here a few months ago. Canada has lots of oil, can't we just make them the 51st state already?

[mrs reb77]

I think he was speaking of Alaska, not Canada. They would probably have something to say about being 'annexed' by the U.S.

[air311]

I think he was speaking of Alaska, not Canada. They would probably have something to say about being 'annexed' by the U.S.

Oh, they'll get over it eventually.

[mrs reb77]

Can we change over to their currency?

[air311]

Can we change over to their currency?

Sure, but I don't want to pay their taxes. Man they get gouged up there. A girl I know near Montreal just paid $21,000 for a Chevy Cobalt. Same car sells for $16,000 here.

[desto1]

the spp treaty will take care of that,canada us and mexico will be cosolidated and will become the north american union,and when the fed is done destroying our dollar then we will have the amero for our currency.and to address the environmentalists,just follow the money trail and see who funds them.... BIG OIL! THERE IS NO OIL SHORTAGE.there is plenty of oil in alaska,texas there are reports now coming out about big reserves that were found in the region of north and south dakota.just like in the 70's they said there was an oil shortage but at the same time thay were capping wells in texas,it is just another lie to rob us and further destroy the middle class

[air311]

My dad was telling me there are a lot of capped wells in Pennsylvania as well, is that true? I know there is oil in a lot of the northern states, even here in Wisconsin they've found oil up north, and i've heard there's a lot of oil buried beneath the Baraboo Bluffs, but they'll never be able to get to it. Even if they could drill here, they'd still find a reason to keep prices high.

[mrs reb77]

Of course THEY are out to get us all, we hear it all the time. THEY have almost got us right where THEY want us. The end time is near.

Regarding Alaska, it's unfortunate that there are laws and such to keep drilling from happening there. I believe people are working on it but THEY of course will stop them yet again.

[hvacker]

Isn't it interesting that Our Alaskan Pipeline is managed ( or mismanaged) by BP British Petroleum? How did a foreign corp wiggle in there? Probably just bought up the stock. Japan won't let foreign corps own their companies.

Awhile a Canadian Corp applied for mining rights in I think Montana.
We just give it away. Don't know the outcome.

I knew a guy that inherited a farm. He sold the oil rights, they punched a hole, capped it, and left. Years later it's still capped. Might have something to do with ez oil and hard oil. Or that poor quality oil is more expensive as it doesn't have as much of the higher quality products.