oil boiler or heat pump

[Nerf herder]

Being my first post here and doing alot of searching before asking this question I hope you can help me make a decision. We live in central Pa. in a 1998 built 1200 sq.ft. ranch house that is well insulated and with 145 sf.ft. of anderson hi. performance windows with a oil fired boiler HWBB heat. Will a heat pump be able to handle the cold weather in the area we live? I have read where the balance point with heat pumps are somewhere around the 35 degree mark before needing backup like the electric heat strips. I know a manual j is needed to be more accurate. I am just wondering if a heat pump with electric heat strip's would work fine or should i just stay with our oil boiler. I read on here people are using dual fuel systems. Maybe i am wrong on my thinking, but to me that adds two system to take care of. I preferr the KISS system for living. I hope you guys can give me some help with this. Thank's

[Freezeking2000]

Being my first post here and doing alot of searching before asking this question I hope you can help me make a decision. We live in central Pa. in a 1998 built 1200 sq.ft. ranch house that is well insulated and with 145 sf.ft. of anderson hi. performance windows with a oil fired boiler HWBB heat. Will a heat pump be able to handle the cold weather in the area we live? I have read where the balance point with heat pumps are somewhere around the 35 degree mark before needing backup like the electric heat strips. I know a manual j is needed to be more accurate. I am just wondering if a heat pump with electric heat strip's would work fine or should i just stay with our oil boiler. I read on here people are using dual fuel systems. Maybe i am wrong on my thinking, but to me that adds two system to take care of. I preferr the KISS system for living. I hope you guys can give me some help with this. Thank's

KISS is what you got. If you are installing central a/c I would make it a heat pump and install a small 10KW back-up electric heat strip.

[heatpumpguru]

That is what we do,install heat pump in attic and use baseboard as back up.

[beenthere]

Same here, HP in attic with 5 or 10 KW strip heat for defrost depending on size of HP.

Yes, you would have 2 systems to maintain. But, with that set up, you have the best of both worlds.
You can lock out the HP at a certain OD temp, or leave it run as the primary heat sourse, and the BB as aux, and save money on your heating bill at all outdoor temps.

If electric would go up enough to make the HP more expensive to use(doubt that will happen). You can switch back to the BB only for heat.

[Nerf herder]

Thanks for the quick replies to my question. I forgot to mention we do have central air. We were going to remove the oil boiler and replace our 10 year old central air with a heat pump, but you got me rethinking my first idea about completely removing the oil boiler. I would like to ask two more question. Being that I do not understand hvac workings very well, how would you make the change over to happen between the heat pump and the oil boiler when the balance point has been reached? Question two. Living where we do would it be wise having a heat pump be able to run on it own in the deep part of winter without any other assistance. Again thank you for your patience with someone who I would say is hvac challenge:)

[beenthere]

The proper thermostat will control everything.

What is your electric rate, and your current cost of oil per gallon.
Many heat pumps can provide enough heat per KW, that running them when its 10*F outside, they cost less oil per BTU. They just don't provide enough BTU's to heat the house. So some form of auz heat is needed, and depending on your rates, the oil boiler could be cheaper electric resistance aux heat.

[Nerf herder]

Our oil prices around here are running about $3.85 a gal. As for PP&L rates I totaled all the add on charges and divided the kw we used and came up with .11 cents.

[beenthere]

LOL...

Just did a quick check.
At your current electrical rate, and cost per gallon of oil. Electric base board would be cheaper then oil, even if your oil boiler was 85% efficient.

It may sound strange to you. But, I recomend getting a heat pump with enough aux electric back for the house, but keep the boiler.
In 2010, PPL and the other electric providers are raise the rates 30% or more.

So if your electric goes up to just 14.3 cents a KWH, and oil goes up to $4.50 a gallon and your boiler is 80% efficient, oil becomes cheaper to use as aux heat then electric.

PPL and others will be offering per hour usage rates. If you consider selecting that option, be carefull if using electric aux heat.

[inhoth2o]

with the oil cost as is a heat pump with baseboard back up is something to think about, like oil, gas and electic cost will rise to, adding an outdoor reset to an oil fired boiler can save 10-15% on fuel, is the hot water heated off the boiler?

[Nerf herder]

Sorry for not supplying you guys with all the information. We have a Weil-Mclain gold oil boiler that is rated at 85% efficienty and we do heat the water with the boiler. I believe I will keep the boiler and replace the stand alone a/c unit to a heat pump. Which thermostat would work best with my oil boiler and the heat pump or does that matter? Thanks for answering my questions.

[heatpumpguru]

it depends on One stage heat pump or 2 stage system

[Jack2007]

Sorry for not supplying you guys with all the information. We have a Weil-Mclain gold oil boiler that is rated at 85% efficienty and we do heat the water with the boiler. I believe I will keep the boiler and replace the stand alone a/c unit to a heat pump. Which thermostat would work best with my oil boiler and the heat pump or does that matter? Thanks for answering my questions.
My house was built with a heat pump and oil backup. Unfortunately, the thermostat was placed in a corner room instead of the center of the house and it only responded to the temp of that room.

Consequently, when the thermo called for heat and the fan started, the cold air from other rooms was drawn in and the heat pump ran for 3 to 4 minutes then went to the oil furnace.

I'm a homeowner and one thing I've learned is there is no substitute for a "professional". Do a search on this forum for suggestions on finding a good professional.
.

[classicrock4you]

Here is a better solution - run a seperate zone off your boiler and install a First Company air handler that has a heat pump coil and a hot water coil and use that as your backup. The thermostat will bring on the hot water coil only when it is needed, your radiation in still there if you ever want to use it (thermostat for radiation is seperate and is off) and you still have your domestic hot water.

[beenthere]

Hydrocoil is not a better solution . At his electric rate electric strip heaters are cheaper to use for both aux and defrost heat then his $3.85 a gallon oil.
If his current A/C is in the attic, cost to run the pipes from the boiler to the attic isn't going to be any cheaper then running the electric line needed for the strip heaters.
Depending how cold his attic gets, antifreeze may be needed to protect the heating pipes from freezing. Anitfreeze lowers the heat transfer rate, which would make the hydro coil cost even more to use or heat then his current baseboard.

Even if the currentA/C is in the basement. The cost of running the electric line to the air handler is worth it for the savings on heating.


Nerf. Last one I did like yours. We left the the thermostat bring on the boiler when ever the heat pump can't keep up with the load.
The one before that we set the lock out to 30*F.

If you get electric aux heaters, and keep the boiler, the Honeywell IAQ will let you set lock outs for both second and third stage heat.






PS: I have oil heat, and other then the price of oil, I have nothing against oil heat.

[tirednow]

how well does the hwbb heat your house? are you lacking enough heat in some rooms? are you comfortable in the coldest days of winter? to me you already have the best form of heat in your home. imho hot water heat is superior to forced hot air wether being heat pump or fuel fired hot air. if you are looking into just saving energy costs you could put the heat pump in with enough heat strip to temper the air for defrost cycle and when the air temp drops, to begin using the oil heat. you could use a honeywell 8000 or iaq thermostat with outdoor temp sensor and drop out the h/p. still use you boiler for h/w. hot water heat was never meant for saving energy. its for comfort. a modern boiler with outdoor reset capability would be very energy efficient and would save fuel consumption, but that would be just another option when its time to replace the boiler.

[tirednow]

looks like we are almost on the same page on this one.

[inhoth2o]

your boiler and a/c unit is only 10 years old working fine, condenser has years left on it, you can install an outdoor reset or a hp condenser and coil, both will save you, how long will each take to pay for its self, that all depends on the future oil/electic cost and the weather

[beenthere]

The heat pump will pay back mat take a little longer. But it saves more per year then just an OD reset.

[Nerf herder]

My condenser is outside and the air handler for the a/c is in the basement beside the boiler. I am positive I will keep the boiler and replace the a/c unit with a new single stage heat pump with 2 speed air handler. The only place where i am still totally confused is the thermostat that makes the boiler and heat pump work in harmony. Once I can come to grips with understanding that, I do believe I have the system for our house. Our HWBB work's wonderfully for us but, I would love to try and save some money with the price of fossil fuel in this day and age if that is possible:). I am learning alot from the replies I have received from everyone here on this forum. This will help me when I call my local heating contractor. Thank you

[beenthere]

Depending on what type aux heat you choose, the stat wires a little different.
There are tats that can control up to 4 stages of heat.
A relay may have to be added to the help control the boiler.
An outdoor sensor is installed so the thermostat knows what the temp is, to know weather to use aux heat or not on some systems. Depends if your looking for the most saving, or if you want more comfort.