Condenser replacement only?????

[starr]

Ok, Now I've read several posts where condensers only were changed out and the old evaporator was left in.:eek:

All of the residential companies I've worked for always replaced evaporators, condensers and linesets!

So what gives with leaving old and sometimes mismatched evaporators in the system?

[channelislands]

To My knowledge and Im sure many on here will have quite to comment on is due to variances in the metering of the refrigerant. What I mean is if you put a 13 seer condensor in on a 10 Seer Coil its lovel to flood the evaporator slug the compressor..... I know where ever I worked before if it was a direct swap in tonnage and seer rating I would just change the condensor if need be. Now due to the higher efficencies and capacitys of refrigerant the only way Id put a 13 seer condensor in on a 10 seer unit would be to change the metering device to a txv and sometimes the coil. I prefer not to mixmatch anyways like to keep a whole system as is just seems to work better.

[t527ed]

in some cases the installer does not know any better.:rolleyes:

in some cases the customer won't pay any better.:(

in some cases homeowner doesn't know any better and installer is a quick in and out hack.......:eek:

[channelislands]

Or the customer is explained doesnt care if it wont work and finds a hack thats willing to do it anyway. Then they call us back and want it to work and wonder why it doesnt. So we fix it rite and charge the crap out of em.

[vaughn jam]

i have a question about the ge x13 ecm motor who can help

[t527ed]

i have a question about the ge x13 ecm motor who can help


start a new thread

[RyanHughes]

i have a question about the ge x13 ecm motor who can help

You can use the search feature (there is info about this on this forum) and/or start a new thread (http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=1).

[starr]

in some cases the installer does not know any better.:rolleyes:

in some cases the customer won't pay any better.:(

in some cases homeowner doesn't know any better and installer is a quick in and out hack.......:eek:



Or the customer is explained doesnt care if it wont work and finds a hack thats willing to do it anyway. Then they call us back and want it to work and wonder why it doesnt. So we fix it rite and charge the crap out of em.


It figures:mad:!! I was hoping this wasn't going to be a new trend.

[t527ed]

It figures:mad:!! I was hoping this wasn't going to be a new trend.



optomist...... huhh??:rolleyes:


as long as we have hacks we will have customers willing to use them......:mad:

[bmathews]

It happens a lot. We always tell the customer about the possible consequences. A lot of times the people can't afford a coil and condenser change, but they need cooling. I'm not going to leave somebody without cooling, it gets hot here in Texas. Its already 90+. If we don't sell it to them, somebody will. I prefer to make money and feed my family rather than throw a temper tantrum and refuse to sell somebody something because they don't agree with what I tell them. Generally, if you don't screw them over, they will be calling you back to fix it right when they get the $$$.

[HVACSvc08]

It happens a lot. We always tell the customer about the possible consequences. A lot of times the people can't afford a coil and condenser change, but they need cooling. I'm not going to leave somebody without cooling, it gets hot here in Texas. Its already 90+. If we don't sell it to them, somebody will. I prefer to make money and feed my family rather than throw a temper tantrum and refuse to sell somebody something because they don't agree with what I tell them. Generally, if you don't screw them over, they will be calling you back to fix it right when they get the $$$. I agree. I work for a "high end" company that will sell an elderly couple a top of the line system even though they don't really need but they have the money to pay for it. But everybody isn't the fortunate so they buy what they need especially if it's 90+degrees.

[trane]

It happens a lot. We always tell the customer about the possible consequences. A lot of times the people can't afford a coil and condenser change, but they need cooling. I'm not going to leave somebody without cooling, it gets hot here in Texas. Its already 90+. If we don't sell it to them, somebody will. I prefer to make money and feed my family rather than throw a temper tantrum and refuse to sell somebody something because they don't agree with what I tell them. Generally, if you don't screw them over, they will be calling you back to fix it right when they get the $$$.

If you won't do it somebody will so that makes it ok I guess? I consider not doing it the best for both of us and am 100% sure I didn't screw them over.

[jpb2]

I agree trane ! do it right or walk away too many potential costly problems. If it is a temporary fix for a few weeks before you can do the evap/furnace swap ok maybe

[Logan_L]

I can't speak for the conditions in other cities, but around here company and individuals names get around. Our reputations are our livelihoods. If I come across a customer that wont take my advice and wants to go ahead with an install/repair that I know would be a mistake, I refuse the job. I have a mortgage and truck payments to make as well, but I would rather be sure that I have work in the future than make a couple of $$ today. My client base grows daily due to customers word of mouth, references are everything. I can't afford the risk associated with what I consider unethical behavior.

again, just my opinion.

[2old2rock]

Word of mouth is everything in these parts as well. We have a lot of happy customers and get a lot of good references.
A few crappy jobs can do a lot of harm.
Boss tells us that everyday.

[bmathews]

If you won't do it somebody will so that makes it ok I guess? I consider not doing it the best for both of us and am 100% sure I didn't screw them over.

I don't see how explaining all the options and telling them the possibilities is screwing somebody over. They go into it with their eyes open and are adults. If you don't do it, that is the best for you ONLY. They are simply going to open the phone book up and call somebody else out to do it. Maybe the next person will REALLY screw them over. At least I know I will do everything in my power to make that system work as well as possible with what there is to work with.

[trane]

When you have decided the only way to do it is the right way you will find it easier to show them its in their best interest to replace it as a system. If your still not willing to loose the job they can convince you they don't want to spend the money.

You do what ever you want but I am going to go to sleep every night knowing every unit I put in has a matched coil and is running just like intended.

[Logan_L]

I agree that providing the HO with all the options and potential costs is vital. That does not mean however that I will do the job, but at least I have provided them with the information they need to see that they are not taken advantage of.

I am not attacking your ethics, methods or person, I just work differently. If I am not comfortable with a job or don't believe that it is in my customers best interests, then I will not take on the responsibility. There are always exceptions, but I still avoid this type of job at almost any cost.

[fellowlucky]

Okay so I've got one to add. Say your swapping out the system and you want to match the indoor coil, but when you open it up there's no model number, no reference materials, nothing to tell you how big your evap is. What do you do?

[Logan_L]

Unfortunately with no data on the coil there is nothing that I can do. I could if I wanted look at the original condenser and contact the manufacturer and see what coils they offered with it. From there I suppose I could try and match up the dimensions to see what I had(if the previous installers hadn't reused the coil already).

But at that point, the cost of me doing the research and trying to get a match is getting closer and closer to the price of the coil... and considering the fact that the metering device would have to be changed...

There is also the fact that the coils and condenser are a matched set for a reason, like it or not manufacturers design their units to work with their approved coils and efficiency ratings. As a result its always a risk to attempt a match, so I wouldn't have showed up without a coil to begin with.

[bmathews]

When you have decided the only way to do it is the right way you will find it easier to show them its in their best interest to replace it as a system. If your still not willing to loose the job they can convince you they don't want to spend the money.

You do what ever you want but I am going to go to sleep every night knowing every unit I put in has a matched coil and is running just like intended.

I sleep just fine at night. If refusing to do a job because they don't believe as you do gets you what you want in your life and you are successful in your career and prosper, then more power to you. If not, that's your problem to deal with. I always tell the people the possibilities, I NEVER lie to them to get a sale, I'm probably honest to a fault. It works for me, I have no customers that speak bad about me or complain, they are all very happy and actually ask for me or call me directly. Most in the situation of which this post started, usually thank me for all my help through a difficult situation. For the record, I've never had a problem with a mis-matched system, maybe it's not as efficient as it could be, but I'll take inefficient over sweating and a mad wife anyday.

[t527ed]

Okay so I've got one to add. Say your swapping out the system and you want to match the indoor coil, but when you open it up there's no model number, no reference materials, nothing to tell you how big your evap is. What do you do?


scrap it, if i went through the trouble to open it up changing it is halfway done...;)

[bmathews]

If there is no designation on the evaporator coil and the model is gone on the condenser. Look at the compressor, a lot of them will have an imprinted metal tag on them designating the BTU's. Most likely on the top of it. You can reference that thing back to the size of the compressor, then use logic to size evaporator.

[trane]

Okay so I've got one to add. Say your swapping out the system and you want to match the indoor coil, but when you open it up there's no model number, no reference materials, nothing to tell you how big your evap is. What do you do?


Every new unit is designed and rated with certain coils most being from the same manufacturer. The chances of finding a match with an old coil are slim to none unless its not very old and is the same brand as the unit. A matching coil does not mean looking at the old coil to find its a 3 ton and then installing a new 3 ton unit on it..

[Logan_L]

I personally do a lot of warranty work, the major suppliers for York and Maytag direct unsatisfied customers my way. When I come across a condenser that was installed with a mismatched coil, how do you suppose they react? Try collecting on a warranty where they system is a mix and match collection of odd parts.

the though of trying to connect a HP26 to an old HP6 coil makes me cringe.

[rponson]

It is not a good business decision for the HVAC company or the consumer to change condensers with out a new coil. In the areas that you don't use heat pumps you will get not have as many problems but the mismatch is still there you just correct it with an over or under charge. But you better not be selling it as a 13 SEER unit.

[beenthere]

A matching coil, is a coil that has an ARI rating with that condenser.
Doesn't matter if the coil is the same nominal BTU rating, or 12,000 BTU's larger.

[RoBoTeq]

I personally do a lot of warranty work, the major suppliers for York and Maytag direct unsatisfied customers my way. When I come across a condenser that was installed with a mismatched coil, how do you suppose they react? Try collecting on a warranty where they system is a mix and match collection of odd parts.

the though of trying to connect a HP26 to an old HP6 coil makes me cringe.
Having repped for two major manufacturers I can attest that if the mismatched components information gets back to the manufacturer, there may be a warranty issue.

Rheem Manufacturing (Rheem/Ruud) will not warranty (at least did not when I repped the brands) unless there is an ARI rated "Rheem" coil attached to the outdoor unit. Goodman is more gracious by allowing any ARI rated brand to keep the warranty in tact.

[jpb2]

Having repped for two major manufacturers I can attest that if the mismatched components information gets back to the manufacturer, there may be a warranty issue.

Rheem Manufacturing (Rheem/Ruud) will not warranty (at least did not when I repped the brands) unless there is an ARI rated "Rheem" coil attached to the outdoor unit. Goodman is more gracious by allowing any ARI rated brand to keep the warranty in tact.

You otta see the e- warranty bs now Robin:confused: