TooDarnHot
04-17-2008, 04:02 PM
Newbie here, from coastal Florida, trying to get a handle on repairing on replacing all or a part of our central air system. Our house has 1600 sq feet under HVAC on 2nd floor, with garage and "bonus" rooms underneath (1st floor is not under central HVAC, as we're in a flood zone and the ground floor is uninsurable space). House was built in 1980; we bought it in 2005.
House has Trane HVAC equipment that predates us, a 2.5 ton 10 SEER condenser with heat pump from 2002, and an attic airhandler that dates from 1997 with a 5 KW "emergency" heat strip; the system is using R-22 freon. We understand that 2.5 ton is "borderline" for our size house.
Twice in recent months the system froze up on us, which may be in part because it is slightly undersized. The second time a slow leak in the evaporator coil was discovered; the technician topped up our freon as a temporary fix. We understand that our air handler is nearing the end of its useful life, but that the condenser has 5-7 years more useful life.
We wanted to fix our freezing problem while not overspending on things we don't need, or unnecessarily replacing components with significant remaining useful life. If we do go with a new system, which is probably not out first choice at present, we wanted a quieter condenser.
The tech suggested we meet with a sales guy, and after some discussion about the change in coolants after 2010 and our desire to invest efficiently, the sales guy suggested we consider one of three options, being:
(A) a entire new system using R-410A puron;
(B) an new air handler only (although we have some question as to whether it could handle R-22 now, and R-410A later when we replace the condenser in 5 years or so); or
(C) a new evaporator coil only, that hopefully would extend the useful life of our air handler to roughly that of the condenser (so that we'd replace the whole system at once, down the line).
We got 3 quotes from BBB-recommended, local installers, including the original firm.
Two quoted for similar Trane units for the entire system - being the XR13 4TWR3030 2.5 ton condenser heatpump, 4TEE3F31 variable speed OR 4TE3F30 standard airhandler, each with puron, digital thermostat and 8KW heatstrip, or alternatively if replacing the air handler only, a 2TEC3F30 standard AH (freon) with 8KW heatstrip. The new system was quoted at 14 SEER with the variable speed AH and 13 SEER with the standard. (They also quoted for replacing the evap coil with another unspecified Trane coil.) Other adds were to upgrade warranty from 10 year coil/condenser & 5 year parts, to 10 year all parts & labor, and to add a 5" "Nudia " (sp?) filter that needs to be changed only with the annual service.
The third firm (that had installed a Rheem in our neighbor's houser last year) quoted us for an Amana ASX-14 3 ton condenser with NO heat pump, with either a variable speed air handler or a standard one, digital thermostat, and a 10KW heat strip that would be the only heat source. He also quoted for an Amana air-handler only (that he said would work with the existing Trane condenser), and Trane evap coil only options, without giving precise model numbers, although the did say that the Amana AH could be used with either R-22 freon or R-410A puron, and flushed out and re-charged if we later replaced the condenser with a newer unit. He also said we could get a condenser unit with a heat pump for an extra $300-400. The new system was quoted at 15 SEER with the variable speed AH and 14 SEER with the standard.
The third firm's prices were $500-1000 lower than the better of the two Trane quotes. This firm also sells Trane, but said they'd have to raise the price by $1000 or so to quote Trane; their guy said he thought the two systems were equivalent, but that you pay for the name with Trane.
My questions:
1 - Is replacing the evap coil only likely to buy us another 5 years or so on the existing AH (the cheapest strategy) to line up the expected replacement dates of the condenser and AH? Will this alone help avoid the freezing issue?
2 - If we buy the AH only, can it be flushed and reused with R-410 5 years or so down the line at the end of the present condenser's useful life? Or does that depend on the specific AH installed? Also, will it help the freezing issue?
3 - If we buy an entire new system now, is the Trane $1000 (25%) better than the Amana? We are close to the Gulf and in a salt air environmment, if that matters. Is 3 ton a better size than 2.5 ton, given the freezing issue (or otherwise)? Which new condenser (Trane or Amana) is quieter?
4 - Can we effectively heat the house without a heatpump, with only a 10KW heat strip on the attic AH? We use the heat sporadically during cold snaps, maybe a total of 10-30 nights a year; rarely (maybe a few days a decade) does it get below 40 degrees F. If the heat strip alone is not enough, is the heat-pump add on fairly priced?
5 - What is a fair price for the two upgrades suggested by the Trane salesguy, being (A) 10 year pull parts/labor, and (B) once-a-year air filter?
6 - Am I missing anything in trying to make a cost-effective decision?
7 - What is your recommendation for the best bang for the buck?
Many thanks in advance!
House has Trane HVAC equipment that predates us, a 2.5 ton 10 SEER condenser with heat pump from 2002, and an attic airhandler that dates from 1997 with a 5 KW "emergency" heat strip; the system is using R-22 freon. We understand that 2.5 ton is "borderline" for our size house.
Twice in recent months the system froze up on us, which may be in part because it is slightly undersized. The second time a slow leak in the evaporator coil was discovered; the technician topped up our freon as a temporary fix. We understand that our air handler is nearing the end of its useful life, but that the condenser has 5-7 years more useful life.
We wanted to fix our freezing problem while not overspending on things we don't need, or unnecessarily replacing components with significant remaining useful life. If we do go with a new system, which is probably not out first choice at present, we wanted a quieter condenser.
The tech suggested we meet with a sales guy, and after some discussion about the change in coolants after 2010 and our desire to invest efficiently, the sales guy suggested we consider one of three options, being:
(A) a entire new system using R-410A puron;
(B) an new air handler only (although we have some question as to whether it could handle R-22 now, and R-410A later when we replace the condenser in 5 years or so); or
(C) a new evaporator coil only, that hopefully would extend the useful life of our air handler to roughly that of the condenser (so that we'd replace the whole system at once, down the line).
We got 3 quotes from BBB-recommended, local installers, including the original firm.
Two quoted for similar Trane units for the entire system - being the XR13 4TWR3030 2.5 ton condenser heatpump, 4TEE3F31 variable speed OR 4TE3F30 standard airhandler, each with puron, digital thermostat and 8KW heatstrip, or alternatively if replacing the air handler only, a 2TEC3F30 standard AH (freon) with 8KW heatstrip. The new system was quoted at 14 SEER with the variable speed AH and 13 SEER with the standard. (They also quoted for replacing the evap coil with another unspecified Trane coil.) Other adds were to upgrade warranty from 10 year coil/condenser & 5 year parts, to 10 year all parts & labor, and to add a 5" "Nudia " (sp?) filter that needs to be changed only with the annual service.
The third firm (that had installed a Rheem in our neighbor's houser last year) quoted us for an Amana ASX-14 3 ton condenser with NO heat pump, with either a variable speed air handler or a standard one, digital thermostat, and a 10KW heat strip that would be the only heat source. He also quoted for an Amana air-handler only (that he said would work with the existing Trane condenser), and Trane evap coil only options, without giving precise model numbers, although the did say that the Amana AH could be used with either R-22 freon or R-410A puron, and flushed out and re-charged if we later replaced the condenser with a newer unit. He also said we could get a condenser unit with a heat pump for an extra $300-400. The new system was quoted at 15 SEER with the variable speed AH and 14 SEER with the standard.
The third firm's prices were $500-1000 lower than the better of the two Trane quotes. This firm also sells Trane, but said they'd have to raise the price by $1000 or so to quote Trane; their guy said he thought the two systems were equivalent, but that you pay for the name with Trane.
My questions:
1 - Is replacing the evap coil only likely to buy us another 5 years or so on the existing AH (the cheapest strategy) to line up the expected replacement dates of the condenser and AH? Will this alone help avoid the freezing issue?
2 - If we buy the AH only, can it be flushed and reused with R-410 5 years or so down the line at the end of the present condenser's useful life? Or does that depend on the specific AH installed? Also, will it help the freezing issue?
3 - If we buy an entire new system now, is the Trane $1000 (25%) better than the Amana? We are close to the Gulf and in a salt air environmment, if that matters. Is 3 ton a better size than 2.5 ton, given the freezing issue (or otherwise)? Which new condenser (Trane or Amana) is quieter?
4 - Can we effectively heat the house without a heatpump, with only a 10KW heat strip on the attic AH? We use the heat sporadically during cold snaps, maybe a total of 10-30 nights a year; rarely (maybe a few days a decade) does it get below 40 degrees F. If the heat strip alone is not enough, is the heat-pump add on fairly priced?
5 - What is a fair price for the two upgrades suggested by the Trane salesguy, being (A) 10 year pull parts/labor, and (B) once-a-year air filter?
6 - Am I missing anything in trying to make a cost-effective decision?
7 - What is your recommendation for the best bang for the buck?
Many thanks in advance!