Closing Threads

[jrongo]

Is it me or is the door getting slammed on more threads quicker than ever? I have not been around long so my sample period is not a wide one.

I wish the moderators would let some of these silly posts run out a little while. Not because I am trying to pick up free DIY info but because I learn more from pros ripping into posters with misguided facts then I do from pros telling other pros “Brand X stinks, Brand Y kicks but” ect.

Separate issue…As for home owners wanting to do some of there own work, everyone should be more tolerant… (Read further before you fire off a reply…please…)

There are clearly different levels of DIY:

I mow my owe lawn and trim my own hedges, does that make me a DIY landscaper, and should I stop and call a pro?

I like to change the air filter and plugs on my car. Heck I even do the breaks and change out starters. I will not swap out a transmission or rear ends because I do not have the proper tools and I do not have the experience to tackle that type of job. In those cases I take the car to the shop (or have them pick it up-ugh)

Now as for HVAC, I change my own indoor filter. I hose down my outdoor unit once a month (weather permitting). If I am in the basement and feel what seems to be a draft coming from an old seam in the duct, I tape it. If the black foam cover that keeps the cool line from the compressor to the coil insolated looks like it might be getting loose I tape it down. I do not mess with the wiring to the unit (I like my hair slicked back not spiked). I do not mess with the R-22 in the lines or unit (I know it is poison to my lungs and to the environment). I will not open my compressor unit (fan meet hands, no thanks…)

You get the point, DIY is not black and white it has a large span. With common sense (something that is lacking more and more in the USA) and some elbow grease one can get a lot done without risking ones body or equipment. I am not saying let people post step by step DIY instructions for all to read (hello lawsuit) but when a DIY starts with “can I do XYZ and save myself some money” Rather than closing the thread and screaming “read the rules” explain to the person that the posed question is dangerous to the person or equipment. Even more fun, tell them why the question has zero common sense and why they are being foolish. It gets funny...very funny...

I truly do believe more information helps all of us. I also think more people will see that pro’s save $, time and maybe even a life or two if they know what risks are really out there.

I think it is unfair to lump all DIY into one bag and toss it to the side. I have read the rules. I think the rules need expansion.

[Admin]

You are on a "private" web site whereas the rules clearly state "no" repair/fix DIY questions are allowed.
If some seem to last longer than others, it is just luck and the moderators didn't catch it in time.

All must remember, this is a site for the Pros in this industry. Home owners or non professionals in the field are allowed to ask / post about general information only.

[beenthere]

I'm not as against DIY as I may seam.

But, with 1000's of people being able to read the replies. You don't know the skill level of everyone that can read the answer, so some may think a procedure applies to their unit, when it doesn't.
This could cause problems you have not thought of.

Next, we don't mind sharing our knowledge, to an extent.

But why should we tell you how to do more repairs yourself, and cut out the income of another tech in your area.
If you think that won't happen, or they won't mind. Call a local copmpany during regular business hours, and ask them every question you have asked here. Plus all the questions you saw that weren't answered because the threads were closed. See if they tell you everything you want to know for free, or if they tell you they have to tend to paying customers.

Keep in mind, we do, DO this for a living.

[beenthere]

Dang, admin beat me by a minute. :)

[jrongo]

You miss the greater point. Pros will make more money and get more work if they explain why DIY has more risks than reward. I am not saying you should help people who are clearly over their heads; tell them why they are being silly and /or risky so all will learn.

I know the site is a private one, again letting DIY run on for a while will just help the pro’s end goal…more business from people and it will also expose more hacks who want to be pros and are not

Thanks for the site, despite my small issues with rules, I do enjoy it and have learned a ton. FYI – I do agree with the pricing rule, it would cause more problems then it would solve.

[beenthere]

Ok.

Reason not to DIY.

If you screw anything else up. You'll be paying to fix more things then needed if you had called a service company in the first place. :)


take care.

[the dangling wrangler]

I for one, am happy to see some of these threads are closed rather abruptly. Three more reasons to not DIY are number one, bodily injury/and or death. Number two, in our litigeous society, people will sue at the drop of a hat. You can spell it out in great detail, yet there will be a few that don't grasp the concept. Number three, it's a possibility you could burn down the building. Not saying
it's the case with you.

[beenthere]

Well. There have been a couple that I think were closed to fast.
I had a couple of really good replies about no DIY, and when I go and click on submit.
Benny, Heybob, or who ever, closed it while I was typing. :) LOL

[Daltex]

I for one, am happy to see some of these threads are closed rather abruptly. Three more reasons to not DIY are number one, bodily injury/and or death. Number two, in our litigeous society, people will sue at the drop of a hat. You can spell it out in great detail, yet there will be a few that don't grasp the concept. Number three, it's a possibility you could burn down the building. Not saying
it's the case with you.

I've said to much in other posts about DIY and I understand the reasoning for it.

I do think it's hillarious that the HVAC trade is so dangerous though. If I prescribe a perscription for someone and they leave the medicine bottle for their kids to get into, that can and does cause more harm than a hack DIY changing his condenser fan. Yes he could stick his screw driver into the wiring and shock himself but the most likely outcome would be he gets the wrong fan/motor hp/blade pitch/rpm voltage? Then he calls you guys and pays for his lesson in why pros are pros.

What if the patient takes to many pills? More dangerous than picking the wrong filter?

What if the patient takes an over the counter med. that conflicts with the Rx the doctor prescribed? More dangerous than pulling the service cover off the condensor?

I doubt that the HVAC lawyers are quite as busy as the medical lawyers.

Do you go to your doctors office and let them give you each individual pill you take? There has to be an assumed responsibility for peoples actions and some people will still drown in a puddle.

If the owners of this forum chose to not allow DIY questions, that's their right. I appreciate the fact that there is a wealth of knowledge supplying answers to people that want to learn. I just think the justificatioin for it is more of a "protect your own" than a liability issue as long as it's proper advice as the OP stated. That is good enough reasoning for me.:)

[beenthere]

So you prescribe pills. Your in the medical field. Your medical doctor?
Do you extract teeth.

[the dangling wrangler]

Sorry.

[the dangling wrangler]

Does that mean that I can write my own prescriptions? No, of course not. It has to be a licensed professional. Same thing here. Sure, I could go get a P.D.R., and probably prescibe myself what I needed. But, there's more to it than that. I don't know what drugs conflict with each other. Kinda like compatibility between HVAC parts. It's really kinda hard to compare the two crafts I refrain from giving DIY advice for fear of being sued. Probably the site feels the same way. :)

[eglide99]

So you prescribe pills. Your in the medical field. Your medical doctor?
Do you extract teeth.

Extract teeth?? Real men just PULL EM :eek: Make sure you clean your Pipe wrench real good though. Ya wouldn't want to get an infection.

[BigJon3475]

Heck I can't even get a straight answer out of an electrician......even after signing the invoice for over a grand.....all I wanted to know was if there was a way to prevent it.:D.....or at least the cause.....you wanna see someone squirm around a question......why....because he might tell me something that could cause him to loose work....which is understandable....even though I promised not to replace any electrical meters myself or go snooping around....LOL

NOTE: All that was real and done in fun with the electrician....no electricians were hurt during the process and both parties got a good laugh out of it.



On the other hand my landscapers try and tell me all the time stuff to do.....that seems to go in one ear and out the other...:rolleyes:....Well that and my Spanish is not all that great.

[Daltex]

Does that mean that I can write my own prescriptions? No, of course not. It has to be a licensed professional. Same thing here. Sure, I could go get a P.D.R., and probably prescibe myself what I needed. But, there's more to it than that. :)I don't know what drugs conflict with each other. Kinda like compatibility between HVAC parts. It's really kinda hard to compare the two crafts I refrain from giving DIY advice for fear of being sued. Probably the site feels the same way. :)

I'm saying that the doctor that writes your Rx leaves the responsibility to you to follow directions. You are given DIY instructions on how to administer the medication. In a hospital- different story. No DIY allowed. Just like here.:)
They give you the cup with the exact med at the exact time (hopefully).

If you screw up the DIY meds that the Dr. gave you to take home, could be a big problem. If you mess around with your HVAC and screw up, most of the time, a costly problem. I'm not saying that there is no danger with HVAC equipment, just that the posters of these questions should be educated as to why they shouldn't be doing what they are looking for info to do. I don't own the board so I'll try not to ask/answer any as the rules clearly state.

I think we all agree if the moderators opened it up for DIYer's that there would be big, dangerous problems that would occur.

I was just agreeing with the OP that education is better than slamming the thread closed. Not up to me though.

[beenthere]

We tell people how to set the temp up or down on their thermostats. :)

Heck, we even tell some home owners how to locate their OD unit.

[Daltex]

Extract teeth?? Real men just PULL EM :eek: Make sure you clean your Pipe wrench real good though. Ya wouldn't want to get an infection.

come on eglide! Pipe wrench? I use a sawzall.;)

[the dangling wrangler]

Well, all of the prescriptions that I've ever taken have the amount to take printed on the label. So, I guess you could say that's DIY? I think I know what your point is. But, I still won't give any DIY information, I don't carry enough insurance.

[Daltex]

Well,all of the perscriptions that I've ever taken have the amount to take printed on the label.So could you could say that's DIY? I think I know what your point is. But I still won't give any DIY information, I don't carry enough insurance.

Compressor has the amount printed on the label.

Didn't ask for any DIY info.

[the dangling wrangler]

Compressor has the amount printed on the label.

Didn't ask for any DIY info.

Compressor has the amount of what printed on the label? And no, in fact you haven't asked any DIY kinds of questions. And that's a good thing from where I'm sitting.

[BigJon3475]

The most DIY I can ever see someone telling a HO to do here is to follow the IOM some have more detail than others from what I have seen but none go into system details just basics like keeping shrubs away from units or washing down the coil with a garden hose monthly in high salt areas.


Besides they tell you everything as a HO that you can do and leave the other stuff to folks that do it all day and either went to school for it or have the experience in the field.



So yeah read the instructions that come with the system.

[Mr Bill]

jrongo, I will explain this in layman's terms, if you have a boss and he says you take your lunch between 12:00 PM and 1:00 PM do you question him? probably not if you want to keep your job, why can he set your lunch hrs.?
because he is the boss and he makes the rules regardless of your opinion or opinions. Well the same here, we have a boss and he really don't have to explain to anyone why he has laid down the rules the way he has, bottom line he's the Boss he owns the place and thats enough said, this is not a court room were both sides can argue or debate their case, any simple minded person can understand this.

[Random Guy]

Heck I can't even get a straight answer out of an electrician......even after signing the invoice for over a grand.....all I wanted to know was if there was a way to prevent it.:D.....or at least the cause.....you wanna see someone squirm around a question......why....because he might tell me something that could cause him to loose work....which is understandable....even though I promised not to replace any electrical meters myself or go snooping around....LOL

NOTE: All that was real and done in fun with the electrician....no electricians were hurt during the process and both parties got a good laugh out of it.



On the other hand my landscapers try and tell me all the time stuff to do.....that seems to go in one ear and out the other...:rolleyes:....Well that and my Spanish is not all that great.

¿Tú no hablas español? :)

[BigJon3475]

si senior :D

[jrbenny]

I think I should save some bandwidth and close this crap.

[cmajerus]

The most DIY I can ever see someone telling a HO to do here is to follow the IOM some have more detail than others from what I have seen but none go into system details just basics like keeping shrubs away from units or washing down the coil with a garden hose monthly in high salt areas.


Besides they tell you everything as a HO that you can do and leave the other stuff to folks that do it all day and either went to school for it or have the experience in the field.



So yeah read the instructions that come with the system.


There ya go, everything that SHOULD be handled by the home owner is in your owners manual, if the installer didn't leave one, download one from online. If you can't find it online its too old and should be replaced!:D

BTW there are some direct current components in some of this new equipment
that might not let you go if you touch it, this is worse than taking too many pills, no stomach pumping gonna save you there. AC hurts and can kill too. If it isn't accessible without removing covers(except filter covers) leave it be.

[BaldLoonie]

I think I should save some bandwidth and close this crap.

Then why didn't ya? :D

[jrongo]

jrongo, I will explain this in layman's terms, if you have a boss and he says you take your lunch between 12:00 PM and 1:00 PM do you question him? probably not if you want to keep your job, why can he set your lunch hrs.?
because he is the boss and he makes the rules regardless of your opinion or opinions. Well the same here, we have a boss and he really don't have to explain to anyone why he has laid down the rules the way he has, bottom line he's the Boss he owns the place and thats enough said, this is not a court room were both sides can argue or debate their case, any simple minded person can understand this.

Mr. Bill

If you read my post you would clearly see that I understand the rules. I happen to disagree with them. Again, I think it is in your industry’s best interest to inform the public and make it clear when DIY folk enter territory that they are unfit to be in.

I would go back and retype my original post in layman’s terms but I choose not.

I often tell my boss when I disagree with him. I offer my differing opinions to him, day in and out. It adds to the bottom line and the boss is happy to hear an opinion other than his own. He does change policy and rules when he realizes it will improve how the company is ran.

I did not ask anyone to change policy or explain. I just stated my opinion.

I almost never take lunch and when I do, I decide when I go and for how long.

Do you think because I mow my own lawn and try to find the best service for the price that I am some broke factory worker that stops working a 12:00 when the whistle blows?

I wear white to work and man a desk but I am not afraid to get my hands dirty.

[BigJon3475]

The owners manual tells you everything that is inside DIY. Everything that it doesn't mention is where a pro steps in....I have even seen some books that have a troubleshooting guide to tell the HO what could possibly be wrong.....but even those say if this is wrong call a pro.

I would take a wild gander and say if it interest you that much (the whole HVAC thing) then take a online/on campus course or buy some of the refrigeration books that are widely available. I think everyone pretty much knows what is DIY that shouldn't be done.....that thought in the back of your head about getting shocked when you start looking at electrical disconnects is your conscious telling you what is DIY that shouldn't be done.

If you have thoughts about maybe I shouldn't do this.....your probably right.

[the dangling wrangler]

I'm missing something. Mowing the lawn & diagnosing and repairing you HVAC system are two different animals.We could tell you all the trade secrets, but then we'd have to ... Well you know the rest.

[cmajerus]

I'm missing something. Mowing the lawn & diagnosing and repairing you HVAC system are two different animals.We could tell you all the trade secrets, but then we'd have to ... Well you know the rest.

I don't know, one of my former coworkers snipped the end off his finger clearing his lawnmower chute:eek: Guess lawncare has some bad DIY things too ex. "If you are dumb enough to reach into a running lawnmowers discharge chute, you should not DIY your own lawncare":D

He was just a tin knocker so we didn't have to worry about him blowing anyone up, I had to hook up his elec., linesets, and gas(not to mention his own equip. service) Don't get me wrong though he was a great guy to work with, best looking tin work around, just knew that he had no knowledge of service/tech work. Former wood butcher turned tin guy.

[Milk man]

When the decision was made to cut off DIYers this site lost much of it's educational value. I understand and comply with the rules. I've also changed my opinion of giving away advice.

But I just saw a thread cut off way to early by Hey Bob. The reasoning is it had a high probability of turning DIY. It was about breakers and noises. One reply stated if the breaker is off then there is no power to the unit. I disagree. A breaker could be switched off but does not mean there is no power. It could be a defective breaker or a half-blown fuse. If this thread was not closed so abruptly I could have posted to be safe and always check with a meter to verify.

Also the breaker could be mismarked or the HO turned off the furnace breaker instead of the CU breaker. Again checking with a meter is the only way to tell.

And we could also advise there is usually more than one power source. The noise could be coming from an energized contactor.

This site is not what it used to be. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[the dangling wrangler]

But I just saw a thread cut off way to early by Hey Bob. The reasoning is it had a high probability of turning DIY. It was about breakers and noises. One reply stated if the breaker is off then there is no power to the unit. I disagree. A breaker could be switched off but does not mean there is no power. It could be a defective breaker or a half-blown fuse. If this thread was not closed so abruptly I could have posted to be safe and always check with a meter to verify.

Also the breaker could be mismarked or the HO turned off the furnace breaker instead of the CU breaker. Again checking with a meter is the only way to tell.


All good reasons for a home owner to call a contractor. You didn't just have that knowledge , you had to learn it.

[beenthere]

Another dead horse being beaten.

Are any mods going to put it out of its misery.

[jrbenny]

Then why didn't ya? :D
I've been taking my kinder and gentler pills. RoBo hooked me up with a few samples. :D

[Mr Bill]

I think I should save some bandwidth and close this crap.


Then why didn't ya? :D


Really this thread is dead. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/mrbillpro/horse.gif

[Milk man]

Originally Posted by Milk man

But I just saw a thread cut off way to early by Hey Bob. The reasoning is it had a high probability of turning DIY. It was about breakers and noises. One reply stated if the breaker is off then there is no power to the unit. I disagree. A breaker could be switched off but does not mean there is no power. It could be a defective breaker or a half-blown fuse. If this thread was not closed so abruptly I could have posted to be safe and always check with a meter to verify.

Also the breaker could be mismarked or the HO turned off the furnace breaker instead of the CU breaker. Again checking with a meter is the only way to tell.








All good reasons for a home owner to call a contractor. You didn't just have that knowledge , you had to learn it.

I just don't see what I've posted could possibly help a HO repair their system. Telling a HO how a system works and giving warnings is not that big of sin. It's educating a HO not giving step by step advice.

[Milk man]

Really this thread is dead. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/mrbillpro/horse.gif


Leave it open. It's not a dead horse. I, for one, have provided good content.

[Senior Tech]

For the greater good of all mankind...:D

>>>Thread Closed<<<

[jrbenny]

Party pooper.

[HeyBob]

Originally Posted by Milk man

But I just saw a thread cut off way to early by Hey Bob. The reasoning is it had a high probability of turning DIY.

I did that so it would not turn into a dogpile like this did and we didn't have to sift through 10 reported posts. Look what this thread did, some of those threads like the one you are asking about go 5 pages before we run across them if no one reports them.

It's really a tough call sometimes. :cool:

We do what we think is best for the site.