converting to 410, should I replace coil??

[laff66]

We're changing out our old freon unit to a 15.8 SEER Amana 2 stage 410 unit and are not sure if the coil needs to be changed. Our contractor mentioned that theres kind of an industry argument about whether cleaning the oil out of the old coil is acceptable or not, and I just wanted to get some opinions. The existing coil is from 2004, and its a Carrier CE3AXA060000ABAA. It says it can use 410 with listed units. I don't know the SEER rating on it, and our guy is checking on it, but if it can be used, what are we losing by not changing to a new one? Its a huge expense for the new one, so it would really have to save a lot of electricity to make it worth it.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[bahvaco]

You won't get the rated efficiency with the old coil and a lot of mfgs. won't give the 10 yr. warranty with a mis-matched system. Don't know about Amana.

[cmajerus]

replace the indoor coil also, the ratings on a 2004 coil to a 2008 condenser may not have an ARI match, and you will not qualify for any rebates, and worst case the mixed oils in the system take out you compressor, and it is not warrantied due to a mismatched system.

[Mr Bill]

The existing coil is from 2004, and its a Carrier CE3AXA060000ABAA. It says it can use 410 with listed units.


This may be true but you will have to change out the TEV a R-22 TEV is different than a 410A valve, maybe you can save the coil, hope it all works out for you.
Mr. Bill

[bmathews]

It will probably work fine as long as the metering device is changed and correct. Which for that will require a TXV. You will probably be changing the coil in 2-3 years. It will probably start leaking. You might get a better deal by doing everything at once, than by coming back in 3 years and changing just the coil. I'm not sure about Amana, but I think they like a matched system and your warranty depends on it. I don't deal with them but once or twice a year, I would definitely check that. A compressor costs about twice that of a coil. My experience tells me that this is a case of pay now or pay more later.

[beenthere]

A mismatched coil on that 2 stage Amana, could get you operating trouble, that the installer won't be able to fix. What size is the Amana.
Plus, You better check, it may not get 14 SEER if its not a VS blower.
Is your blower a VS blower.

If its not, you could end up with high humidity in the house.
Before I mismatched a 2 stage to another manufacturers evap coil, I'd get a single stage, and a matching coil.

[t527ed]

match the coil to the unit or buy a low end cheap unit if you want to save money.

[flange]

The oil is one issue, but coil volume is another. The newer systems operate differently than the older(yes even five years ago) systems and require different matchups. If you dont match them up,. why spring for the higher efficiency unit, it wont work to its ability anyway. There have been many analagies for this, my fav was putting your old transmission in your new car. Yes it will work, but not like the manufacturer intended.

[laff66]

We do not have a VS blower. In response to the question about the Amana unit size, were you looking for tonnage? If so, its a 5 ton. As always, that you for the very quick responses, and it sounds like a new coil is the way to go. We'll be in this house for a long time, so if its going to happen anyway, I'm thinking we might as well bite the bullet now...

[skippedover]

Well, if you are in the habit of purchasing a new car but keeping the interior from the old car, then definitely keep the interior of the old system. Otherwise, spend anothe nickel and get the whole system done new. You expect it to run from 5 to 7 times longer than the auto your'e driving, so why cheap on the installation to save a few bucks? And that's just the capital expense. When you factor in the added operating costs of a lower efficiency over 15-20 years and escalating electricity prices, a new coil is a bargain. Think carefully before you pass on the coil.

[dash]

That Carrier coil can likely be used with Puron/R410a,but not with another brand,just asking for problems,go with a matching Amana coil.

[tinknocker service tech]

you are install a top line unit and cutting corners on it at the same time. This makes no sense

replace the coil and have a matched system for years of trouble free comfort

[laff66]

Okay. I'll do it. I didn't actually choose such a top of the line unit, its just that its kind of a brother in law deal, and he got a few of them on closeout at the end of last season, and is selling it to me for the cost of a less expensive unit. I was just going on what he said as far as the extra expense, and that it was pretty huge.

[bmathews]

This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. A 2 stage Amana, a single speed furnace and a Carrier coil on a "brother in law deal"? Really think about what you're doing before you do it. You might be worse off than before and you're stuck with a new unit. Good luck.

[laff66]

a

[bmathews]

Sorry, brother in law deal makes it sound like we're using a novice contractor. He's actually very experienced and has over 20 years in the business. I'm sorry if I made it sound like we're a bunch of yay-hoos...

I'm playing devil's advocate here. So don't get upset. If you have a lot of confidence in him and he's very experienced and he says all is well. Then why are you coming on a blog asking complete strangers for advice? It sounds to me as if you don't have a lot of confidence. You know the guy, go with your gut. If I have complete confidence in somebody, I sure wouldn't be asking strangers for advice.

[dash]

I'm playing devil's advocate here. So don't get upset. If you have a lot of confidence in him and he's very experienced and he says all is well. Then why are you coming on a blog asking complete strangers for advice? It sounds to me as if you don't have a lot of confidence. You know the guy, go with your gut. If I have complete confidence in somebody, I sure wouldn't be asking strangers for advice.

To continue that thought,20 years experince can be 20 years doing it wrong,hope not.

[4l530]

If you like your furnace, keep it.
If it's getting old, or you have any doubts about it, change it now also. It will be easier to do it now, and can only be more expensive to do it later.
You can replace the central A/C system and re-use the same furnace as long as the furnace moves the required amount of air for the new cooling system.

edit: Glad to see you have apparently decided against the frankensystem you were thinking of. It was sounding to me like a disaster in the making.

[laff66]

bmathews, don't worry about upset here, I appreciate the point of view. Do I trust him - yes Thats why this forum is so great. I've always been one to research things to death, thats all this is. Thanks again.

[beenthere]

Using a non VS blower, you lose half the advantage of the 2 stage condenser.

You can do it right. New 2 stage condenser, new matching indoor coil, new furnace with VS blower, new Honeywell IAQ thermostat.

Or you can do half a$$.

[jackfrost504]

please don't mixmatch.

[Twilly]

This may be true but you will have to change out the TEV a R-22 TEV is different than a 410A valve, maybe you can save the coil, hope it all works out for you.
Mr. Bill


Twilli says Mr Bill gonna get a bad rep giving out serious advice:eek:

[hvac248]

NOTE: r22 systems are not rated for the higher pressure 410,all components must be rated for 600 psi. poe oil and minerel oil makes slime. save only the electrical if its meets code.

[beenthere]

Actually York used the same coils for R410A as they used for R22 when they first switched to R410A. They just tested them at the higher pressure. They held, and were approved.
There OD coils aren't made any thicker for R410A then they were for R22..
In fact, many newer coils made for R410A, are thinner then coils made for R22 8 years ago.
But you should change the coil to make sure youo don't contaimiate the oil.

[Skip 2 my lou]

NOTE: r22 systems are not rated for the higher pressure 410,all components must be rated for 600 psi. poe oil and minerel oil makes slime. save only the electrical if its meets code.

Blah Blah Blah rated Blah, save whatever is "worth it". Every piece has a price tag. A 8 ton r-22 evap can be saved. OMG it all has to go!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are slogan usually used by B&^%H N*&&3%S that are sales techs and don't even know how to do their job correctly. Box changers make me sick.

[Twilly]

Twilli in the box business