Residential High-End Heat Pump Market Share?

[sdgrease]

As mentioned in another thread, I am getting quotes for a replacement heat pump for my house in central Florida. It seems that there are some strong preferences by some members here for Trane (typically XL16i), by others for Carrier (typically Infinity16/19), and by a few for Lennox (XP19). I wonder if these different levels of preferences are related to the market shares of the companies? With that in mind, I am guessing that, in the high end market, those three companies have the lion's share of the work. And I will go out on a limb to guess that they fall in order like this:

Trane/American Standard
Carrier/Bryant
Lennox

Am I right or wrong on this? I am curious to see what y'all think.

[BaldLoonie]

You'll never find that info. Really nobody even publishes market share by brand in general.

There's 2 technologies in those units you mention. The Infinity 16 uses a recip compressor that reverses direction to cut capacity in 1/2. The A-S/Trane and Lennox use the unloading scroll to reduce capacity to around 75% on low. The 3rd one you don't mention is the A-S/Trane 18/19 which uses 2 compressors to offer 50% and 100% capacity. Personally I'd prefer having more difference in capacities so if I were doing a 2 stage, I'd go one of the units that has 50% on low for longer run time on low.

Bryant & Carrier have the best control with the Evolution/Infinity system. The new communicating system from A-S/Trane comes in a distant 2nd.

[heatpumpguru]

I think Carrier is first and then Trane,we sell alot of 2 speed equipment because of 15 cents a KW. We sell alot of HYBRIDS because of BIG BREAK on them 6 cents a KW above 600KW

[addamsmasher]

So are you wanting to know what is the most popular high-end equipment or which high-end equipment manufacturers stuff is going to make you the most comfortable as effeciently as possible? The answer to both is Carrier.

[sdgrease]

You'll never find that info. Really nobody even publishes market share by brand in general....
That's interesting - in my business (power generation) EVERYBODY knows marketshare. I assumed that OVERALL marketshare in residential hvac would be known, but that submarkets like the high-end heat pumps might not be so clear. Maybe the guess that I made is as good as it gets, then.


... There's 2 technologies in those units you mention...
Yes - I gathered that everyone is using versions of either the Bristol recip or the Copeland scroll. So the differences among the brands has to be in how the different companies engineer and package their systems.


... Bryant & Carrier have the best control with the Evolution/Infinity system. The new communicating system from A-S/Trane comes in a distant 2nd.
What about the Lennox controls with their XP19?

[bmathews]

Those are really the only 3 I would consider. They are my preferences. Other people have other preferences. We are all Trane, Carrier, Lennox, Goodman, etc... guys. Nobody bad or good. Just what we prefer and feel the most comfortable with. Trane, A/S more expensive, but you get what you pay for, Carrier not quite but good and Lennox pain the in the butt to deal with. Anything else, not familiar with new lines. You honestly will not go wrong with Carrier, Trane, Lennox, Goodman, Rheem/Ruud. Those are the brands I see running still after 20 years.

[sdgrease]

... and Lennox pain the in the butt to deal with....
Since you indicated that you can't go wrong with any of the major brands, am I correct in assuming that the Lennox pain factor comes from their customer/technical service, rather than engineering/hardware?

[beenthere]

The market share is known.
But not broke down to high or low end equipment shares.

[bmathews]

Since you indicated that you can't go wrong with any of the major brands, am I correct in assuming that the Lennox pain factor comes from their customer/technical service, rather than engineering/hardware?

I am probably the wrong person to speak with dealing with overall Lennox customer service at this point and warranties. Right now, they SUCK. They have no regard for anybody but making their lives easier and have no concern for making their customers lives easier or their customer's customers. They have their money and that is all they care about. I also do this for a living, so I'm not a PO'd homeowner. Don't get me started on them, right now. They need to localize more and quit being a national company. I'll stop now.

[heatpumpguru]

I agree LENNOX is a pain for parts,BIG TIME. We fix them,but do not sell them. Even our local Service Experts company sells Trane.

[jthom]

Have to agree with the Lennox pain. We were a Lennox dealer for 28 years. Grew up with the Pulse. Started to get some grey hair with the Complete heat. Lost my religion over the TX valves. When Lennox went public we saw and felt the changes. It was a tough decision to leave but our customers understood when we explained why. Looking back the change was easier than we expected. "One less thing to worry about."

[sdgrease]

So are you wanting to know what is the most popular high-end equipment or which high-end equipment manufacturers stuff is going to make you the most comfortable as effeciently as possible? The answer to both is Carrier.
This thread has actually been slipping off track a little bit. The real question was about what percentage of total high-end sales is captured by each one of those three major vendors. I get the idea that I should correct my original guess of rankings to:

Carrier/Bryant
Trane/American Standard
Lennox

The next question is - what percentage of high-end residential heat pump installs do each of these guys get? I'll make another guess that you folks can take pot-shots at :D:

Carrier/Bryant 45%
Trane/A-S 40%
Lennox 15%

I think that each of you will have a really good handle on who sells the most installs in your area, at least.

[beenthere]

You forgot
York/Luxaire
Rheem/Ruud
Amana/Goodman

[beenthere]

Knowing which companies sell the most installs, doesn't tell which sells the most high end equipment.

The largest Carrier dealer in this area, doesn't sell the most high end systems percentage wise.
The largest Trane dealer in this area, doesn't sell the most high end systems percentage wise.

[jrbenny]

This thread has actually been slipping off track a little bit. The real question was about what percentage of total high-end sales is captured by each one of those three major vendors. I get the idea that I should correct my original guess of rankings to:

Carrier/Bryant
Trane/American Standard
Lennox

The next question is - what percentage of high-end residential heat pump installs do each of these guys get? I'll make another guess that you folks can take pot-shots at :D:

Carrier/Bryant 45%
Trane/A-S 40%
Lennox 15%

I think that each of you will have a really good handle on who sells the most installs in your area, at least.
As noted by beenthere, there is NOT a market share report that shows type of unit sold. We only have HP, AC, and Furnace reports.

It is not detailed beyond those three categories.

Anybody that claims otherwise is guessing just like you.

[bmathews]

Knowing which companies sell the most installs, doesn't tell which sells the most high end equipment.

The largest Carrier dealer in this area, doesn't sell the most high end systems percentage wise.
The largest Trane dealer in this area, doesn't sell the most high end systems percentage wise.

We pretty much sell only high end Trane equipment. Very little mid/low and we sell mostly Carrier/Bryant mid/low with very little high end. We sell no mid/low Lennox and only high end on their stuff.

[beenthere]

We pretty much sell only high end Trane equipment. Very little mid/low and we sell mostly Carrier/Bryant mid/low with very little high end. We sell no mid/low Lennox and only high end on their stuff.
Ok.
But, are you the largest/biggest dealer in your area for the brand you sell the most high end equipmet in.

[dash]

High end market share,will vary by market ,from what I've seen.

Based on "promo" sales ,which Trane and Carrier keep records,Lennox likely does too but I haven't seen theirs,Carrier is first,in Florida.

However in the Orlando area,second or maybe third ,based on 2007.

[flange]

The answer to the question is skewed by the new construction market. Many new home project claim to have high end units, but really do not. The average customer is driven more by proce point than anything else. It takes a willing salesman who actually knows the product line to be able to expalin the benefit of using better equipment as opposed to builders grade or mid grade. It depends on many factors as to what we sell, but we like the higher end product for many reasons. In general, the better the system we install, the more delighted the client. When you can install a variable speed blower for example, it allows you to tweek airflow much more easily, to perform dehumidification better, and to compensate some for poor ductwork which has been existing and cannot be changed out. We like two speed compressors for better control and better energy consumption in most cases. With the greening of america, using "environmentally friendly" refrigerants is becoming very popular. In the end, we seem to experience less problems with high end equipment. The upsell helps our p&l a bit too.