Robinair digital gauges

[millerman]

See the ad to your right? I tried to pull up those nifty looking gauges however, I can't seem to find them on their site.

[answer]

I am trying to teach my tech how to charge a system, it really is an art form that will be lost but to us old timers when the digital gauges are the norm. With the 410 and other refrigerants coming out the digital charging systems will be the standard way to charge. I am looking for what to get for myself, here are the links.

http://www.refcoswiss.com/nordamerika/index_e.html

http://www.yellowjacket.com/HVACRProducts.asp?t=HVACR&l=5&c=33&p=310

I think the scales are important unless the digital gauges have a capacity of refrigerant measure

[millerman]

The ad shows what looks to be replacement gauges that are digital. I've had the full meal deal digital gauges at like $500 bucks plus keys for differant refrigerants, lasted maybe 4 months. I kinda like the replacement style gauges.

[answer]

also look at

DIGIMON - Digital Manifold
The Two-Way Digital Manifold by refeco
http://www.refcoswiss.com/nordamerika/index_e.html
open pdf

[mark beiser]

I am trying to teach my tech how to charge a system, it really is an art form that will be lost but to us old timers when the digital gauges are the norm.

They don't tell you anything that analogue gauges and regular thermometers don't.
They just give you accurate, timely, and repeatable data, you still have to know what to do with it. ;)

I don't regard refrigerant charging as an "art form", at least not with systems that are factory tested and matched systems, especially not in the residential market.
It is a science that requires accurate, repeatable information, in real time, to get right.
It only becomes an "art form" when dealing with mismatched, or incorrectly applied equipment, especially when the airflow is not correct.

Now there are units like the Service Assistant, and the Stargate 3000, that will calculate target superheat or subcooling, and tell you if the system is correctly charged, but they are more high dollar.
Trane also has "Charge Assist" built into their new communicating XL19i unit, and will come in future models, that has simi automatic charging built in. The unit tells you to add or remove refrigerant, or if it is correctly charged. It will automatically charge itself if you hook a refrigerant drum up to it through the optional charging solenoid.

Expect to see more and more equipment manufacturers come out with similar setups, and instrument manufacturers develop more things along the lines of the Service Assistant and Stargate units.

There have been a lot of studies done to find out what percentage of systems get installed with the incorrect refrigerant charge. They range from a "low" of 53% of new systems being installed with the incorrect refrigerant charge, to a high of 67%.
It is no surprise that equipment and instrument manufacturers are scrambling to do something about that.

[beachtech]

i ordered my yellow jacket set today!! i am so excited!! i get them on tuesday. i cannot wait!! i'll post back my adventure :)

[beachtech]

They don't tell you anything that analogue gauges and regular thermometers do.
They just give you accurate, timely, and repeatable data, you still have to know what to do with it. ;)

I don't regard refrigerant charging as an "art form", at least not with systems that are factory tested and matched systems, especially not in the residential market.
It is a science that requires accurate, repeatable information, in real time, to get right.
It only becomes an "art form" when dealing with mismatched, or incorrectly applied equipment, especially when the airflow is not correct.

Now there are units like the Service Assistant, and the Stargate 3000, that will calculate target superheat or subcooling, and tell you if you if the system is correctly charged, but they are more high dollar.
Trane also has "Charge Assist" built into their new communicating XL19i unit, and will come in future models, that has simi automatic charging built in. The unit tells you to add or remove refrigerant, or if it is correctly charged. It will automatically charge itself if you hook a refrigerant drum up to it through the optional charging solenoid.

Expect to see more and more equipment manufacturers come out with similar setups, and instrument manufacturers develop more things along the lines of the Service Assistant and Stargate units.

There have been a lot of studies done to find out what percentage of systems get installed with the incorrect refrigerant charge. They range from a "low" of 53% of new systems being installed with the incorrect refrigerant charge, to a high of 67%.
It is no surprise that equipment and instrument manufacturers are scrambling to do something about that.

echo

[beachtech]

i just figure, how can i tell HO that mecury t-stat is worthless and not accurate. let me go out to your system with my anolog gauges and see whats going on... LMAO really. and everything else we use is difital now. micron gauges. multi meters. you still use analog muti metter?? you are old timer lol

[itsiceman]

I am looking for what to get for myself, here are the links.

http://www.yellowjacket.com/HVACRProducts.asp?t=HVACR&l=5&c=33&p=310

The ad says "It's strong.... Crushing walnuts with your bare hands strong"
Crushing walnuts with your bare hands is easy if you know how :cool:

[aircooled53]

I am trying to teach my tech how to charge a system, it really is an art form that will be lost but to us old timers when the digital gauges are the norm. With the 410 and other refrigerants coming out the digital charging systems will be the standard way to charge. I am looking for what to get for myself, here are the links.

http://www.refcoswiss.com/nordamerika/index_e.html

http://www.yellowjacket.com/HVACRProducts.asp?t=HVACR&l=5&c=33&p=310

I think the scales are important unless the digital gauges have a capacity of refrigerant measure

I like the Refco digital gauges we got a pair and all the technicians got a week to try them out, only thing is when it's really cold lens fogs a little. Performance and durability I would go with Refco over the Yellow Jacket and also cost. Refco is cheaper and better built..;)

Anyway our Boss is springing for us all to have digitals and if he's paying I would not argue..:cool: April we will all have new gauges..:D

[bustawrench1]

Performance and durability I would go with Refco over the Yellow Jacket and also cost. Refco is cheaper and better built..;)


Why???

[mark beiser]

Performance and durability I would go with Refco over the Yellow Jacket and also cost. Refco is cheaper and better built.

I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion that the refco has better performance, is more durable, and better built than the Yellow Jacket(Digi-Cool) unit.

Cheaper, and a neat little package yes, but it is lower accuracy, slower responding, has an inferior display, and is less weather resistant.
It looks to be a good entry level digital, but is not quite on the same level as the Digi-Cool and Testo units laboratory grade accuracy, proven durability, and really great displays, and it is unproven yet.
The price point for a unit that includes a built in micron gauge makes me suspicious of the quality of the electronics.
It is only on my "buy recommendation" list because of Refco's track record for high quality products.
I also like that the built in manifold includes angled hose keepers like a regular manifold, I just wish they came out the front.
If purchased from one of our area Trane distributors, it has a 2 year over the counter warranty, so if there do turn out to be issues, at least it has some local warranty support.
If they turn out to be of reasonable durability, I think Refco may have scored big due to the price point and solid retail distribution of units in stock for immediate purchase.

The Master Cool gauge set is actually significantly more feature rich, for only a little more, but it is on my "avoid for now" list due to Master Cools track record of cheap junk products, lol.

[aircooled53]

I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion that the refco has better performance, is more durable, and better built than the Yellow Jacket(Digi-Cool) unit.

Cheaper, and a neat little package yes, but it is lower accuracy, slower responding, has an inferior display, and is less weather resistant.
It looks to be a good entry level digital, but is not quite on the same level as the Digi-Cool and Testo units laboratory grade accuracy, proven durability, and really great displays, and it is unproven yet.
The price point for a unit that includes a built in micron gauge makes me suspicious of the quality of the electronics.
It is only on my "buy recommendation" list because of Refco's track record for high quality products.
I also like that the built in manifold includes angled hose keepers like a regular manifold, I just wish they came out the front.
If purchased from one of our area Trane distributors, it has a 2 year over the counter warranty, so if there do turn out to be issues, at least it has some local warranty support.
If they turn out to be of reasonable durability, I think Refco may have scored big due to the price point and solid retail distribution of units in stock for immediate purchase.

The Master Cool gauge set is actually significantly more feature rich, for only a little more, but it is on my "avoid for now" list due to Master Cools track record of cheap junk products, lol.

I have talk to other technicians that have used yellow jacket in commerical and refrigeration and they were not impressed with them;now me maybe I should wait and judge it for myself. But, my opinion is not worth much in the digital market as I have never owned digital gauges. Refco does make other products and I have some of them and they hold up to hard wear, in Texas heat.

[mark beiser]

I have talk to other technicians that have used yellow jacket in commerical and refrigeration and they were not impressed with them;now me maybe I should wait and judge it for myself. But, my opinion is not worth much in the digital market as I have never owned digital gauges. Refco does make other products and I have some of them and they hold up to hard wear, in Texas heat.

They would be the first ones I ever heard of that were "not impressed", lol. Duno what else they have been using, but the Yellow Jacket(Digi-Cool) product beats all hell out of analogue gauges, and the display response time is the fastest of any digitals out there.
They would likely be even less impressed with the Refco unit. It is intended strictly for the residential market, the 3 sec display update would make it useless for testing/setting pressure controls in refrigeration.

I'm not saying the Refco unit is bad, I just find it very odd that anyone would say that a product that just hit the street in the last month is more durable and better built than the product that has the longest track record of proven durability in that particular class of instruments.

[aircooled53]

They would be the first ones I ever heard of that were "not impressed", lol. Duno what else they have been using, but the Yellow Jacket(Digi-Cool) product beats all hell out of analogue gauges, and the display response time is the fastest of any digitals out there.
They would likely be even less impressed with the Refco unit. It is intended strictly for the residential market, the 3 sec display update would make it useless for testing/setting pressure controls in refrigeration.

I'm not saying the Refco unit is bad, I just find it very odd that anyone would say that a product that just hit the street in the last month is more durable and better built than the product that has the longest track record of proven durability in that particular class of instruments.

Hey , watch for me around your area in new Chevy with camper shell only one in our fleet.. Maybe do lunch this year. I lost your # so, guess I will watch for you on the road.;)

[alexw]

.
Mark . . .

Have you had your hands on a Stargate SG-3000?

If you were to pick one of these radio transmitting temperature to hand held computer super heat/sub-cooling calculators which one would you pick based on your present knowledge?

Do you know of or anything about the Testo device?

The big time saver in these devices is that they measure wet and dry bulb temperatures at the air handler/furnace and via radio transmit the temps to you at the condenser outside.

The SG-3000 manufacturer is about a 20 minute drive south of me in Parker, CO. I intend to get an actual in the field demo next week. Will I be impressed or not? :confused:


They don't tell you anything that analogue gauges and regular thermometers don't.
They just give you accurate, timely, and repeatable data, you still have to know what to do with it. ;)

I don't regard refrigerant charging as an "art form", at least not with systems that are factory tested and matched systems, especially not in the residential market.
It is a science that requires accurate, repeatable information, in real time, to get right.
It only becomes an "art form" when dealing with mismatched, or incorrectly applied equipment, especially when the airflow is not correct.

Now there are units like the Service Assistant, and the Stargate 3000, that will calculate target superheat or subcooling, and tell you if the system is correctly charged, but they are more high dollar.
Trane also has "Charge Assist" built into their new communicating XL19i unit, and will come in future models, that has simi automatic charging built in. The unit tells you to add or remove refrigerant, or if it is correctly charged. It will automatically charge itself if you hook a refrigerant drum up to it through the optional charging solenoid.

Expect to see more and more equipment manufacturers come out with similar setups, and instrument manufacturers develop more things along the lines of the Service Assistant and Stargate units.

There have been a lot of studies done to find out what percentage of systems get installed with the incorrect refrigerant charge. They range from a "low" of 53% of new systems being installed with the incorrect refrigerant charge, to a high of 67%.
It is no surprise that equipment and instrument manufacturers are scrambling to do something about that.

[mark beiser]

.
Mark . . .

Have you had your hands on a Stargate SG-3000?

If you were to pick one of these radio transmitting temperature to hand held computer super heat/sub-cooling calculators which one would you pick based on your present knowledge?

Do you know of or anything about the Testo device?

The big time saver in these devices is that they measure wet and dry bulb temperatures at the air handler/furnace and via radio transmit the temps to you at the condenser outside.

The SG-3000 manufacturer is about a 20 minute drive south of me in Parker, CO. I intend to get an actual in the field demo next week. Will I be impressed or not? :confused:


I only handled a SG-3000 at the international RSES convention. I have checked it out on their web site, and watched their videos.
It is a very interesting device, and I like where they are going with it, but I have a very serious issue with it.
It has no manifold, just 2 hose connections. When you hook it up to a system, refrigerant from the system fills the hoses, so you walk away with several ounces of refrigerant from the system every time you connect to one. There is also no way to purge air from the instrument itself when hooking up to a system.
It desperately needs a manifold.
One minor thing that bugs me is that the return temp/RH probe requires a largish hole, and the probe has no stop to keep from accidentally dropping it into a duct, and keep air from being pulled in around the probe insertion, which can potentially affect the reading.

[alexw]

.
Mark . . .
Very worthwhile comments. I'm planning to see a live demo on a real job on Friday . . . if it is not too cold to enjoy being outside.


I only handled a SG-3000 at the international RSES convention. I have checked it out on their web site, and watched their videos.
It is a very interesting device, and I like where they are going with it, but I have a very serious issue with it.
It has no manifold, just 2 hose connections. When you hook it up to a system, refrigerant from the system fills the hoses, so you walk away with several ounces of refrigerant from the system every time you connect to one. There is also no way to purge air from the instrument itself when hooking up to a system.
I desperately needs a manifold.
One minor thing that bugs me is that the return temp/RH probe requires a largish hole, and the probe has no stop to keep from accidentally dropping it into a duct, and keep air from being pulled in around the probe insertion, which can potentially affect the reading.

[MechAcc]

The Refco url http://www.refcoswiss.com/nordamerika/index_e.html leads to an expired domain name page.

Try http://www.refco.ch/nordamerika/index_e.html

Why isn't this thread in the Tools Forum?

[millerman]

I felt it was a good place because the ads on the right show what look to be replacement gauges that are digital, not the digital manifold set, just the gauges. You go to Robinair's site and they show no such thing. This thread then went to people talking about the whole set. I am talking about replacing the standard needle type gauge with a digital gauge.

[King Valve]

nvm. :o

[millerman]

nvm. :o
NVM????

[weber]

I like the Refco digital gauges we got a pair and all the technicians got a week to try them out, only thing is when it's really cold lens fogs a little. Performance and durability I would go with Refco over the Yellow Jacket and also cost. Refco is cheaper and better built..;)

Anyway our Boss is springing for us all to have digitals and if he's paying I would not argue..:cool: April we will all have new gauges..:D



I have talk to other technicians that have used yellow jacket in commerical and refrigeration and they were not impressed with them;now me maybe I should wait and judge it for myself. But, my opinion is not worth much in the digital market as I have never owned digital gauges. Refco does make other products and I have some of them and they hold up to hard wear, in Texas heat.

Wow! You have to be the first tech I have ever heard say that!

Refco, seem very cheap to me and are not field friendly at all. They are slow responding, so I cant see how any refrigeration tech would ever say that the refco is better then the Digi-Cools? And the acuracy is less, so?

[beachtech]

are you still using an analog multi meter???
are you telling your customers that a digital thermostat is the best way to acheive high comfort and efficiency???

why the hell are you still using analog gauges MR. mark???

[beachtech]

robinaire and refco both appear to be very cheesy looking products IMO i have not purchased anything robinaire, because i walk into the supply house and put thier product in my hand and it feels cheap. i come from an automotive background and snap-on was all i bought. i want snap-on grade HVAC tools in my tool box!!! price has everything to do with quality and reliability!! why would you want to buy a gouge set that the lens fogs up on? that would be very frustrating to me!! the minute it did that i would cart those things back to where i bought them from!!! and get my money back!!

[MechAcc]

robinaire and refco both appear to be very cheesy looking products IMO i have not purchased anything robinaire, because i walk into the supply house and put thier product in my hand and it feels cheap. i come from an automotive background and snap-on was all i bought. i want snap-on grade HVAC tools in my tool box!!! price has everything to do with quality and reliability!! why would you want to buy a gouge set that the lens fogs up on? that would be very frustrating to me!! the minute it did that i would cart those things back to where i bought them from!!! and get my money back!!


???? Back in 1989 Robinair was the supplier of the air conditioning tools for Snap On. Did Snap On change vendors?

[Reeferman]

???? Back in 1989 Robinair was the supplier of the air conditioning tools for Snap On. Did Snap On change vendors?

That was before SPX bought Robinair and turned it into a worthless piece of crap. Robinair was the Snap On of the refrigeration tool industry before the SPX @#$%up.

[mark beiser]

why the hell are you still using analog gauges MR. mark???

You talkin to me?

I'm probably the most passionate proponent of digital refrigerant gauges on this forum. So much so that it borders on being an obsession to bend people to my will on the subject! ;)

I do still use analog refrigerant gauges for one thing though. I have some nice 1% accuracy brass gauges, with tempered glass lenses, on my refrigerant recovery manifold. :D

[beachtech]

???? Back in 1989 Robinair was the supplier of the air conditioning tools for Snap On. Did Snap On change vendors?

never bought snapon ac gauges. the machines that you use to recover and recharge autos have gauges in them :)

[beachtech]

I do still use analog refrigerant gauges for one thing though. I have some nice 1% accuracy brass gauges, with tempered glass lenses, on my refrigerant recovery manifold. :D

LMAO thats the only time i use my anolog gauges too :D

[hvacrmedic]

The Master Cool gauge set is actually significantly more feature rich, for only a little more, but it is on my "avoid for now" list due to Master Cools track record of cheap junk products, lol.

Looked at a set of Master Cool digitals today. It's like eye candy, BUT, the demo model on the counter was already broken right from the factory. No temperature display, period. They just got this thing in and it doesn't work.

So I got out all my analogue gauges and did some repair work on them and calibrated them all, fine tuned them, etc. Here's what I've decided, since all six gauges on the three manifolds that I use most were within 1/2 psi of each other at 50psig and at 100psig, with all of them zeroed at atmospheric pressure, why do I need digital gauges? Do I really need more accuracy that 1/2 psi? If I did get digital gauges how would I know they were any more accurate than the ones I have, the manufaturer's word for it? Yeah, right!

I don't have a single digital instrument that is reliable at low ambients or high RH. I think there's a lot of smoke being blown around here with this digital craze.

Even if your pressure reading is NIST-perfect, what good is that perfection when your temperature reading is off? I have God knows how many different digital thermometers and probes of various types, and none of them agree with each other throughout the entire temperature range that we measure in hvac work. The latest addition is a NIST certified testo 610. The certificate (NIST traceable) says that it measured exactly the reference temperature within less than a 10th of a degree. Bull. It's a degree higher than most every other thermometer I've checked it against (that was able to be calibrated in ice water.) Either these are all a degree low plus or minus a few tenths, or the testo is a degree high. None of the digitals is consistent either. They are affected by ambient temperature and humidity. Some also give false readings when the battery gets low, even though the low battery indicator isn't showing.

The instrument that I trust least is the k-type thermocouple thermometer. My analogue gauges are apparently more trustworthy than my digital thermometers. I think I'll go back to an analogue thermometer too, just to have something reliable to test the digitals against.

[millerman]

HVACR Medic, nice post. I remember going from my big ol' Simpson volt meter to a Fluke digital and man what a long and winding road that was. I guess it would be cool to have SH and SC spelled out for you however, I think it would make a tech lazy after a while. With 410A, precision is a must and not being able to trust your gear means no heat, no cool or false diagnosis. All post's very appreciated. Michael

[Reeferman]

Looked at a set of Master Cool digitals today. It's like eye candy, BUT, the demo model on the counter was already broken right from the factory. No temperature display, period. They just got this thing in and it doesn't work.

So I got out all my analogue gauges and did some repair work on them and calibrated them all, fine tuned them, etc. Here's what I've decided, since all six gauges on the three manifolds that I use most were within 1/2 psi of each other at 50psig and at 100psig, with all of them zeroed at atmospheric pressure, why do I need digital gauges? Do I really need more accuracy that 1/2 psi? If I did get digital gauges how would I know they were any more accurate than the ones I have, the manufaturer's word for it? Yeah, right!

I don't have a single digital instrument that is reliable at low ambients or high RH. I think there's a lot of smoke being blown around here with this digital craze.

Even if your pressure reading is NIST-perfect, what good is that perfection when your temperature reading is off? I have God knows how many different digital thermometers and probes of various types, and none of them agree with each other throughout the entire temperature range that we measure in hvac work. The latest addition is a NIST certified testo 610. The certificate (NIST traceable) says that it measured exactly the reference temperature within less than a 10th of a degree. Bull. It's a degree higher than most every other thermometer I've checked it against (that was able to be calibrated in ice water.) Either these are all a degree low plus or minus a few tenths, or the testo is a degree high. None of the digitals is consistent either. They are affected by ambient temperature and humidity. Some also give false readings when the battery gets low, even though the low battery indicator isn't showing.

The instrument that I trust least is the k-type thermocouple thermometer. My analogue gauges are apparently more trustworthy than my digital thermometers. I think I'll go back to an analogue thermometer too, just to have something reliable to test the digitals against.

You really need to stop buying the cheap digital whatever and buy something decent.

[beachtech]

With 410A, precision is a must and not being able to trust your gear means no heat, no cool or false diagnosis.

so you don't have to be as precise with any other refrigerants :rolleyes:

[hvacrmedic]

You really need to stop buying the cheap digital whatever and buy something decent.

I'd take one of each, if they were free. :)

[beachtech]

I'd take one of each, if they were free. :)

medic

what is that tool for your avatar??

[itsiceman]

medic

what is that tool for your avatar??Looks like one of two free testo 610 humidity and temperature meters :cool:

[millerman]

so you don't have to be as precise with any other refrigerants :rolleyes:

Bend it, twist it as you desire stool head. Does that make you feel special? I think you know what I mean, at least others do I believe. Go back to bed and think of something a bit more creative.

[beachtech]

Bend it, twist it as you desire stool head. Does that make you feel special? I think you know what I mean, at least others do I believe. Go back to bed and think of something a bit more creative.

maybe you should go back to bed grumpy :D

[hvacrmedic]

medic

what is that tool for your avatar??

That's one of those cheap piece of crap instruments that I'm apparently supposed to be replacing with a good one. :) Testo 610, like itsiceman says.

Well that one WAS cheap, it cost me nothing :)
Piece of crap?....not by a long shot! Very nice instrument.

I have recently purchased the Fieldpiece HS36 after my last meter screwed me on superheat and subcooling by giving the wrong temperatures. Just out of the blue it began reading up to 5 degrees off. Had to go back to a few units and re-adjust the charge. Everything else on it works fine, but it's now in file 13, a 5 gallon bucket full of other meters that have pissed me off. The reason I went with the Fieldpiece is that the temperature can be field calibrated on it, which BTW is something I've already had to do. Got it set now, and so far it's holding. We'll see. Anyway, I also liked the ability to attach the heads with the meter leads. That allows me the ability to read the screen when the measurement is being taken back in a hole somewhere.

A couple of questions about the DSRAs. Do either the testo or Digicool DRSAs allow field temperature calibration? And why don't they use the standard K type jacks like a normal meter? The Mastercool not only uses the standard K type jack, but it uses two of them, one for the suction line and one for the LL.

I understand that the new Digicool coming out is going to incorporate a clamp. I might be interested in that one, but I'd be more interested in it if it just provided me with two K type jacks and no temperature sensor. I've got plenty of K types already, just need a couple of jacks to plug em into.

I also need a lower price on the thing. :)

[jim bergmann]

There is good reason for no K-type. Static will blow the either the transducers or the thermocouple out in the instrument. Testo uses a PT100 temperature sensor that is electrically isolated from the the instrument to prevent such an occurrence from happening. Static occurs under the right conditions with all manifolds do to the fact that refrigerant is a hydrocarbon and will generate static as it flows through a rubber hose. The higher end instruments like the Testo 523, 556, 560 and our main competitor incorporate technology (though different) to prevent damage. Some of the cheaper stuff I am afraid does not. See the attached video, this was the first time in three years of testing that I was able to capture it in video. I was charging a rheem unit with R-22, but the static can be a lot worse with 410-a

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6Cp01pCVA

[beachtech]

WOW that was very cool jim :) rarely do i think about static and my electronics. i know that staic is bad. and when replacing boards in systems i am cautious to keep myself grounded while handling the board. but i often forget about my meters and gauges and such.

and i agree with you medic, i often feel for the money all of these digital guage sets should have quite a bit more rfeatures and ease of use!! but what do i know :rolleyes: its only taken me 5 years to buy my first set of digital gauges.

[hvacrmedic]

There is good reason for no K-type. Static will blow the either the transducers or the thermocouple out in the instrument. Testo uses a PT100 temperature sensor that is electrically isolated from the the instrument to prevent such an occurrence from happening. Static occurs under the right conditions with all manifolds do to the fact that refrigerant is a hydrocarbon and will generate static as it flows through a rubber hose. The higher end instruments like the Testo 523, 556, 560 and our main competitor incorporate technology (though different) to prevent damage. Some of the cheaper stuff I am afraid does not. See the attached video, this was the first time in three years of testing that I was able to capture it in video. I was charging a rheem unit with R-22, but the static can be a lot worse with 410-a

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6Cp01pCVA

Ok, you've answered that question! I was aware of static build-up from refrigerant flow. I've even read about attempts to generate electricity from flowing gasses, but never considered that this phenomenon might damage a K type instrument.

I've actually had my a$$ knocked off by a refrigerant cylinder a couple of times. Don't try this at home: If you hold the cylinder in your hand while charging liquid at a high rate, be careful about reaching over and touching the unit. I was literally knocked down on a roof top like this once. The arc sounded exactly like a 22 round, and jumped several inches to my hand. Left a blister on my finger.

Thanks for the video and the update Jim, very enlightening.

BTW, I need to post an update on my previous comment about the testo 610s temperature calibration. What I've discovered is that when air is moved over it, then it reads the correct temperature. I think the probe needs to be extended a little bit further from the meter body. Probably getting a little radiative heating from being so close in. If I leave it laying the temp will drop, agreeing with thermometers that I know to be correct. But when I'm holding it it will read a degree high, even two degrees sometimes. One of my coworkers saw me twirling the meter by the wrist strap and said "You know you don't have to sling the digital psychrometers.". I said, "apparently I do." :)


Love to give you a better review, but those seem to be the facts as I know them. It's not really an issue though, because there is almost always air moving over my psychrometer when I'm taking a reading, and even when there isn't I don't stand there and hold it. I lay it down and do other things while the thing stabilizes. All in all, it's a great little meter. I actually traded my old yellow jacket psychrometer for another tool after getting the 610.

[mark beiser]

BTW, I need to post an update on my previous comment about the testo 610s temperature calibration. What I've discovered is that when air is moved over it, then it reads the correct temperature. I think the probe needs to be extended a little bit further from the meter body. Probably getting a little radiative heating from being so close in. If I leave it laying the temp will drop, agreeing with thermometers that I know to be correct. But when I'm holding it it will read a degree high, even two degrees sometimes. One of my coworkers saw me twirling the meter by the wrist strap and said "You know you don't have to sling the digital psychrometers.". I said, "apparently I do." :)

Same with my H2 humidity sticks. They respond much faster in moving air, and if I stand there holding it still, body heat radiation affects it.
I don't consider it a problem, just was interesting that they are that sensitive.
I mainly use them for inserting into test holes in ducts anyway.

I did another one of my "how close to all my thermometers read" test today, not a calibration test though.
I have a little cluster of two H2 humidity sticks, two Fluke type-k thermocouple pipe clamp probes, a Fluke type-k thermocouple air probe, a Testo type-k thermocouple pipe clamp, a Fluke bead type thermocouple probe, and the pt100 thermistor pipe clamp for my Testo 623, all in a tight cluster in my living room, with the pipe clamps on a piece of 5/8 copper.
The bead thermocouple plugs into my Fluke 16, and I have a Fluke 52 for reading the type-K thermocouple probes.

Counting the Fluke 16, the total spread from the lowest temp reading to the highest is 0.5ºF.
Not counting the Fluke 16, which I never use for temp readings anyway, the total spread is 0.3ºF.

Not bad for 3 very different technologies, from 2 different manufacturers. Actually, at least 3 different manufacturers if you count 3rd party vendor sourcing of the thermocouple elements in the Fluke clamps. I don't know if Testo actually manufactures the sensors in the H2's and the PT100 pipe clamp.

My Digi-Cool BTD-1000 and Testo 523 digital gauges also read within a couple of tenths of a psi of each other. Within 1 psi on the high side of the Digi-Cool since it doesn't show tenths of a psi on the high side.
2 different sensor technologies, 2 different manufacturers, 3 year separation in the date each was put into use, same readings.

[hvacrmedic]

Same with my H2 humidity sticks. They respond much faster in moving air, and if I stand there holding it still, body heat radiation affects it.
I don't consider it a problem, just was interesting that they are that sensitive.
I mainly use them for inserting into test holes in ducts anyway.

I did another one of my "how close to all my thermometers read" test today, not a calibration test though.
I have a little cluster of two H2 humidity sticks, two Fluke type-k thermocouple pipe clamp probes, a Fluke type-k thermocouple air probe, a Testo type-k thermocouple pipe clamp, a Fluke bead type thermocouple probe, and the pt100 thermistor pipe clamp for my Testo 623, all in a tight cluster in my living room, with the pipe clamps on a piece of 5/8 copper.
The bead thermocouple plugs into my Fluke 16, and I have a Fluke 52 for reading the type-K thermocouple probes.



Thanks. Now I know I'm not the only person (idiot??) in the world that does this! :) My reasons are probably different though. I do it because I hate having fu%%Ed up stuff that I paid a lot of money for. You probably do it because you're a techno junkie. :)

[mark beiser]

Thanks. Now I know I'm not the only person (idiot??) in the world that does this! :) My reasons are probably different though. I do it because I hate having fu%%Ed up stuff that I paid a lot of money for. You probably do it because you're a techno junkie. :)

Guilty as charged Sir!
But I also hate "fu%%Ed up stuff that I paid a lot of money for". ;)