Geo heat pump pulling vac on low side?

[Binderman]

I have a Mammoth GSHP that is locking out due to the low side pressure switch sensing low pressure.

I know little about a heat pump, but I guess I will have to learn as the units in our H.S just went out of warranty and we have no local HVAC company in town anymore.

I have run into restriction in elbows and such in a normal split sytem, but really have no idea where to start to look for one in this unit.

I have done a little research online and in some books I own and it shows that a HP has two check valves and two TXV's. So with that said wouldnt the system work in either heating or cooling mode if only one of the txv's or checks were malfunctioning as this one doesnt work in either? I havent been back to look at the unit to verify it has two TXV's so I may be shooting in the dark with this assumption. So if it operates in neither mode wouldnt that narrow down where the restriction would be, or am I overthinking the process?

What I am looking for when looking for check's in this system. Will they be internal inside a filter, or will they be shaped like a normal plumbing check?

Sorry for being so long winded.

Thanks Guys and Gals for any help you can provide!!!

[karsthuntr]

Have you checked the pressure or is it just giving you a fault code?

[Randy S.]

Low on gas or the loop is too cold.

Got gauges?

A refrigerant handlers card?

[Binderman]

Have you checked the pressure or is it just giving you a fault code?

Pressure has been checked. Pulls down to about 19 Hg on low side and about 140 psi on high side. These pressures are met about 8 secs after the compressor comes on. The one tech I could get out to look at it added a shot of freon (22) with no change to unit.

Yall are quick!! I posted this before I left work yesterday. I guess the internet never sleeps.

Thanks for the reply!!

[Binderman]

Low on gas or the loop is too cold.

Got gauges?

A refrigerant handlers card?

I don't feel its a "loop to cold" problem as it pulls into a vacuum within 8 to 10 seconds of the compressor coming on. Our units are on a "field" (lack of better term) not a dedicated loop per unit. Guess I should have added that into my first post. Sorry!!

My info shows this to be a 19k btu unit.

I do have gauges and they have been installed and pressures checked. The low side pressure switch shows to be 7 psi switch and unit pulls down to 19Hg on low side. High side pressure stays around 140 psi.

No 22 card, but I do have a mobile A/C refrigerant handlers card. Does that count for much? :D

Big thanks to you also for the help.

[Texas-Tech]

I'd say you got yourself a restriction, question is where? What does the pressure do when you shut the unit off..say in a vac or rise right back up to what ever the outdoor temp dictates. LL Driers, service valves, check valves and txv's are all a potential culprit. When the tech added freon, i don't suppose he maybe removed what was present and weighed in the correct amount? You just have to get a qualified tech out or try to work through it, but unless you know what your doing..........................:eek:

[Binderman]

I'd say you got yourself a restriction, question is where? What does the pressure do when you shut the unit off..say in a vac or rise right back up to what ever the outdoor temp dictates. LL Driers, service valves, check valves and txv's are all a potential culprit. When the tech added freon, i don't suppose he maybe removed what was present and weighed in the correct amount? You just have to get a qualified tech out or try to work through it, but unless you know what your doing..........................:eek:

Hello fellow Texan!! Love the username!! Graduate of TT?

The pressures equalize fairly quickly once the compressor is shut off. I wasnt around when the freon was added, but I highly doubt the charge was removed and weighed back in. I seen the bottle, but no reclaim machine. Unit is above the suspended ceiling in the hall of our H.S so I don't feel he would vent to the atmosphere either.

After talking with him about it some I got the indication he wasnt a big fan of our GSHP's.

Anyway after playing with the unit somemore this afternoon could a faulty RV or coil cause such a problem? How does one diagnose a bad reversing valve or coil? I know they should default to either heat or cool mode, but what if it split the difference? Possible? What problems would this cause?

I may not be a certified tech, be we were all newbie's before we learned a skill. Guess I gotta learn this heat pump stuff. Its a tad different from automotive a/c.:)

Anyway I really appreciate you questions and help!! Any other thoughts??

How is Houston? Havent wanted to go back since I left in 92.:D

[Texas-Tech]

No TT I'm a transplant from Michigan, been here since 1978. I'm just wondering if the system isn't just out of freon. If the pressure didn't equalize right away I'd would think it was a pretty severe restriction but now I'm not convinced. Maybe a 4 ton sys may hold as much as 6-10lbs r=22. A little squirt isn't gonna tell you much of anything

[Texas-Tech]

The system config may be different but the principals are all the same. :D

[Binderman]

No TT I'm a transplant from Michigan, been here since 1978. I'm just wondering if the system isn't just out of freon. If the pressure didn't equalize right away I'd would think it was a pretty severe restriction but now I'm not convinced. Maybe a 4 ton sys may hold as much as 6-10lbs r=22. A little squirt isn't gonna tell you much of anything

I would say it equalizes in about 40 seconds after compressor is shut off. Doesnt seem to lag any worse than any others I have watched IIRC.

Watching it yesterday when the compressor comes on the low side pressure hovers at about 0 then the needle bounces a little than it starts its pull into a vacuum.

Normally when these units are in the cool mode and I switch of the service disconnect I get a hissing noise which I feel is the RV loosing power and switching. I don't get this noise on this unit.

I feel if it switched cycles I could tell a little more about the problem. RV still makes me wonder.

Welcome to Texas TT!!:D

Thanks again!!!

[Texas-Tech]

you should be able to put power to the rv and feel with your hand if it actually switches or use an amp meter on the wires to the coil and see what you get. Ohm the coil. If the unit is out of freon or extremely low your not gonna get the pisssitt type of sound cause there isn't enough freon to build up any pressure.
Does the hot gas discharge from the comp get any heat at all?

[roadhazard]

First I would confirm whether you are running in heat or cool then look at your metering device or the strainer on the inlet of the txv. As far as refrigerant charge goes, You can pull the refrigerant and weigh it back in. That will eliminate any doubt.

[Binderman]

you should be able to put power to the rv and feel with your hand if it actually switches or use an amp meter on the wires to the coil and see what you get. Ohm the coil. If the unit is out of freon or extremely low your not gonna get the pisssitt type of sound cause there isn't enough freon to build up any pressure.
Does the hot gas discharge from the comp get any heat at all?

I havent powered the RV yet. I know I get no voltage to it in either mode.? Another problem to work through I guess. Manual says its energized in cooling mode. I'll ohm the coil this afternoon.

The discharge from the comp gets warm, but not like the other unit I am using for comparison.

I would like to figure this thing out before I call in someone else. I hate to pay anyone for something I can normally do. If I could only make my own freon I would be set.:D

Stay tuned!!

Thanks a zillion for the help!!!

[Binderman]

First I would confirm whether you are running in heat or cool then look at your metering device or the strainer on the inlet of the txv. As far as refrigerant charge goes, You can pull the refrigerant and weigh it back in. That will eliminate any doubt.

I had thought about weighing the freon out/in. I would have to do it redneck style, but thats nothing new for me. I don't have a "freon handlers card" so I don't think I could justify a high dollar reclaim machine. On second thought I now have two busses with A/C and a "mobile A/C freon handlers card" so I guess its time for that tool.

Whats it take to be a card carrying member? I havent had anyone that I asked that new for sure. Do I have to do some apprentice work also besides the classwork?

Thanks for the reply.

With yalls help I bet we get this thing solved!! I'm gonna feel like a total heel if its only low on freon. I'll refuse to pay the first tech's bill also!! Gut feeling tells me it isnt low though.

Thanks again guys!!!

[Texas-Tech]

a freon certification course from a local parts house. A reclaim machine is very expensive, might not be in your budjet

[Binderman]

a freon certification course from a local parts house. A reclaim machine is very expensive, might not be in your budjet

Sounds easy enough. I hear ya on the reclaim machine costs. We had one at the tractor repair shop I worked in after H.S. It made an exspensive wheel chock for one of the mechanics. :( If the coaches/teams ride a hot bus I bet I can get anything I need.:D

More on the unit this afternoon late.

Whats your service area??:D:D

Thanks!!

[Binderman]

The plot thickens!!

With the RV energized (unit in cooling mode) the high side pressure goes to 400psi which in turn causes a H.P lockout. H.P switch is 400 psi.

Now I figure I pretty much have a restriction somewhere. I am still at a loss as to where to look as the RV shouldnt cause the pressures to go from one extreme to another should it?

Could it be that the restrictive item is acting like a metering device one direction and a full check the other?

Or am I over thinking the whole deal?

Thoughts? I have about come to terms with the fact that the unit will need to be dropped out of the ceiling and brought to shop so that I can tear into the lines and coils and figure out where the restriction is. Or should I wait?

Can a bad TXV cause this? I can only find one in the system. Looks like the heating/cooling coil (room coil) has capilary tubes (if this is the correct term).

May be best for me to pull unit down and drive it the 150 miles one way to the nearest authorized Mammoth dealer and let them worry with it.:D

Are we having fun yet??

[Texas-Tech]

Are you sure the condenser coils are clean? Whats your ambient temp? A lot of coils are double row coils which means they may be clean on the outside but in between they can be dirty. Does the air from the condenser fan blow straight up or sorta off to an angle?
seems to me if this was a thing that just started happening it wouldn't be dirty coils but you never know.What was your low side pressure when the head was 400? If it was low it would indicate a restriction is possible.

[Texas-Tech]

are you getting your high side pressure from the hot gas out of the compressor or is there an access like a service valve on the liquid line? If your hooked on the hot gas line your rv may be not opening, hence hi pressure. Just a thought.

[karsthuntr]

Check the water side.

[Binderman]

Are you sure the condenser coils are clean? Whats your ambient temp? A lot of coils are double row coils which means they may be clean on the outside but in between they can be dirty. Does the air from the condenser fan blow straight up or sorta off to an angle?
seems to me if this was a thing that just started happening it wouldn't be dirty coils but you never know.What was your low side pressure when the head was 400? If it was low it would indicate a restriction is possible.


Coil should be clean, but will check it in the morning. Ambient would that be air over the indoor coil temp or water temp entering other coil? Building/intake air temp should have been around 75/80 degree's. Units have filters changed regulary and the room this unit is in has very little activity. Draw though indoor coil is basically a straight shot. Low side pressure was about 40 psi and climbing at about the same rate as the high side till the H.P switch cut it off.

Thanks!!

[Binderman]

are you getting your high side pressure from the hot gas out of the compressor or is there an access like a service valve on the liquid line? If your hooked on the hot gas line your rv may be not opening, hence hi pressure. Just a thought.

High side pressure is taken about ten inches from compressor in the hot gas (discharge) line. The H.P switch is sweated on just near the gauge port. No service valves.

I'll have to check and see where low side is taken from.

TXV huh. I figured this might come up. I know the RV is functioning so I feel a tad better. TXV has a few less connections.:D

[Binderman]

Check the water side.

What am I looking for? I don't feel its freezing up as it doesnt run long enough to freeze. And I guess I could check the water flow through it, but will have to wait till I break into the system to see if its stopped up.

Stay with me!! Thanks!!

[craig1]

definitely check the water supply. if you don't have water, you'll have nothing to take heat from so the pressure will plummet in heating. if you don't have water in cooling theres no place for the unit to dump the heat to and pressures will skyrocket.

make sure theres water in the system, the pump is pumping, and that the water is actually flowing.


easy way to check for water flow- take a torch and heat up the water pipe untill its warm. turn on the pump and the pipe should get cold instantly. if the piping is plastic don't use this test

[Binderman]

definitely check the water supply. if you don't have water, you'll have nothing to take heat from so the pressure will plummet in heating. if you don't have water in cooling theres no place for the unit to dump the heat to and pressures will skyrocket.

make sure theres water in the system, the pump is pumping, and that the water is actually flowing.


easy way to check for water flow- take a torch and heat up the water pipe untill its warm. turn on the pump and the pipe should get cold instantly. if the piping is plastic don't use this test

Hello! Welcome to my problem.:D

I will check the water supply and pumps for proper operation. I don't know if I mentioned it previously or if it even matters, but each unit has its own set of pumps. So lack of pumped water at each unit could easily be a problem with the way the system is set up. If I lost all water flow (lack of make-up water) I would loose the whole building.

Not to question your response, but wouldnt lack of circulated water effect only the cooling cycle in a sense? Or am I once again over thinking this. It all happens so quick after the disconnect is closed that I don't really feel its a water issue at this point.

That brings up another question. How does one verify that a small grunfos pump is actually turning? I guess loaded amps would be one way. Is there any other way?

Again BIG THANKS for your response.

Its friday guys!!:D So after 5pm yall can rest for the weekend as I am sure I'll have a bazillion questions on monday.

[Texas-Tech]

I'm sorry Binderman, I had completely lost sight of the fact your dealing with a geothermal HP,so this unit is not air cooled correct? I'm old, ya gotta forgive me.

[Binderman]

I'm sorry Binderman, I had completely lost sight of the fact your dealing with a geothermal HP,so this unit is not air cooled correct? I'm old, ya gotta forgive me.

Yep its water cooled. Over 4 miles of 3/4" poly scattered all over the front yard circulating water for the building this unit is in.:D

We plan to Geo our gradeschool building the summer of 09 also.

I love my Geo system. Except for this hiccup and a few leaks all has been cherry since its install. Our utility bills thank us each month.

Get some rest, we'll get at it again monday.

Thanks for the help thus far!!

[krriffle]

Unscrew Cover On Backside Of Pump. To See If Shaft Is Turning. You Will Lose A Few Drops Of Water. You Should Do This When Replacing Pump {burping The Pump}

[Binderman]

Unscrew Cover On Backside Of Pump. To See If Shaft Is Turning. You Will Lose A Few Drops Of Water. You Should Do This When Replacing Pump {burping The Pump}

Thanks!! I unscrewed one of the caps just a couple threads once and water came out so I screwed it back in. Was afraid I might get it plumb loose and have a gyser on my hands.

One more question answered!!

Thanks again!!

[karsthuntr]

It will only leak a little bit. Behind that cover is a slot for a screwdriver, if the pump is not turning you can free it with a screwdriver.

[Binderman]

definitely check the water supply. if you don't have water, you'll have nothing to take heat from so the pressure will plummet in heating. if you don't have water in cooling theres no place for the unit to dump the heat to and pressures will skyrocket.
make sure theres water in the system, the pump is pumping, and that the water is actually flowing.


easy way to check for water flow- take a torch and heat up the water pipe untill its warm. turn on the pump and the pipe should get cold instantly. if the piping is plastic don't use this test

I may have to eat crow now and lots of it. :o

I messed with the unit a little this morning and now I am wondering if I don't have a water circulation problem. I turned unit on, RV not energized (heat mode) and let it run a while w/ LP switch jumpered. I then powered the RV (cooling mode) and the HP switch locked the unit out a lot quicker than it had previously.

This unit has the pumps mounted low compared to the others. With this mounting location there really isnt any way to bleed the air out of the lines to and fro of the unit between pumps. The bleeds are lower than the hoses and coil inside unit. This is also the last unit on the supply and return lines to the well field.

So this afternoon I plan to raise the pumps/mount up and see if by chance I don't have a air bubble where the water lines go up and over top of unit and down the other side to the pumps.

With my IR temp gun the temps of the hoses are only a couple degrees from each other at the pumps. I would think this is a indicator of a flow problem also.

I can't believe I didnt catch where these pumps were being mounted during install. I had to fight to get some of them clocked correctly like the instructions with the pumps recommended. I was really worried about the system burping itself before install also.


We may be onto something!!

Thanks guys for ALL the help and the thoughts about my problem!!!:)

The internet is the best tool I own!!!

[Binderman]

No crow buffulo wings yet.:D

I removed the circulation pumps (grundfoss UP) and relocated the mounts and rerouted the supply hoses to get them where they could be bled of any trapped air. After cutting off some of the extra hose I noticed black flakes of something in the water that ran out. I figure its the crud ya get inside a copper pipe when ya hard solder then together. Building loops are rigid copper pipe.

I flushed the units loop coil and got quite a bit of the same crud. I figured I had found the trouble. Yes!! Nope! System still acts the same. Water flow isnt the issue. Did learn some things about that side of the system.

I am now back to trying to figure out where a freon restriction would be.

I was so tired of standing on a ladder that I removed the unit form the building and took it to my shop. I removed the top panel and found that the capilary tube to the TXV sensing bulb had broken the zip tie securing the tubing to the suction line. After further inspection of the small tube I found it had a bad rubbed spot in it. I can't tell if it let the gas out of not.

So my question is now, what happens to a TXV when it looses its sensing bulb gas? Does it slam shut? Would it cause my vacuum and high pressure issues when the RV is in it different modes?

I feel we are about to figure this thing out.

Thanks all!!!

[tecman]

Water flow is an unlikely issue. Sounds to me like TXV issue, not opening. Get the sense bulb free and warm it up in warm water. TXV should open.

paul

[geodude]

Post some pics of the loop pumps if possible. And how did you flush out the loop after reassembling the flow center(pumps)?

[Texas-Tech]

actually i believe if you loose the charge to the cap the valve will lose control and close due to the spring pressure in the valve.

[Binderman]

Water flow is an unlikely issue. Sounds to me like TXV issue, not opening. Get the sense bulb free and warm it up in warm water. TXV should open.

paul

I'll try the hot water trick and post results. I feel very positive that I have a TXV problem now. I still havent got it all sorted out in my mind as to why the TXV would cause this though.

I guess I need to read up on how one (TXV) works and that would help me figure it out. But what issue's it causes when it goes bad would be better. :D

They don't make a "what if" manual.

I am really learning about about the unit and its operation.

I really appreciate all the help and the never ending support!!

This web site is great.

Thanks guy/gals!!

[Binderman]

Post some pics of the loop pumps if possible. And how did you flush out the loop after reassembling the flow center(pumps)?

I'll shoot some tomarrow if possible. I don't mind going up there on the weekend if it will help solve my problem.

When I say unit loop I mean the coil inside the unit. I wish I knew the proper term here. It wasnt the ground loops. Hope I didnt cornfuze ya. I am still in training.:o

I tried to flush it reverse of normal flow but the check after the return (red) pump prevented such (DUH) so I closed the valves before and after the return pump and took inlet flange loose and opened the valve and let the water flow into a 30 gallon trash can. I had to let the make up water valve pressure up the system a couple times as the flow rate was more than the make up valve could handle.

I got quit a bit of gunk out of it. So I am glad I actually tore into the water side of this unit.

I'll shoot some pics and see if I can attach em tomarrow pm.

Big thanks for gettin involved!!

[Texas-Tech]

go to www.sporlan.com and you can see everything you need to know about how the txv works

[Binderman]

actually i believe if you loose the charge to the cap the valve will lose control and close due to the spring pressure in the valve.

Thanks for the info. I'll probly change it anway as I feel if it didnt "loose the charge to the cap" it might later as the tube is probly gettin very thin.

Like everything else I change I will have to tear it apart to see how it works.

I take lots of pride in my work and not knowing why something failed seems like the job was only half finished.

Thanks for staying in the trenches with me!!

More later!!

[Texas-Tech]

better yet http://www.hvacmechanic.com/txv.htm

[Binderman]

go to www.sporlan.com and you can see everything you need to know about how the txv works

Its a sporlan valve. Sweet!!

I'll check it out after supper.:)

Thanks!!!

[karsthuntr]

A txv will slam shut when the bulb charge is released. If the head is a screw on type you can just replace the head. You still have to pull the charge but you don't have to braze anything.

[aircooled53]

What I would do is remove refrigerant, and weigh in charge for the GSHP.
Or you can try a couple of options:

Make sure that if this is a variable drive that you have a FAN moving air or it will cut-out on pressure. Or if the pump that supply's water to inlet is not pumping, it will cut out on pressure.

If you put a little R-22 in and say maybe 1 lb or 1 1/2 lbs.and your suction pressure doesn't move check the TXV.If it moves and you get high side moving up check the drier.

[geodude]

I'll shoot some tomarrow if possible. I don't mind going up there on the weekend if it will help solve my problem.

When I say unit loop I mean the coil inside the unit. I wish I knew the proper term here. It wasnt the ground loops. Hope I didnt cornfuze ya. I am still in training.:o

I tried to flush it reverse of normal flow but the check after the return (red) pump prevented such (DUH) so I closed the valves before and after the return pump and took inlet flange loose and opened the valve and let the water flow into a 30 gallon trash can. I had to let the make up water valve pressure up the system a couple times as the flow rate was more than the make up valve could handle.

I got quit a bit of gunk out of it. So I am glad I actually tore into the water side of this unit.

I'll shoot some pics and see if I can attach em tomarrow pm.

Big thanks for gettin involved!!

I was a little corfuzed for a second, sounds like your getting good advice, I'll wait to see pics, loop and duct design are my thing':D

[Binderman]

A txv will slam shut when the bulb charge is released. If the head is a screw on type you can just replace the head. You still have to pull the charge but you don't have to braze anything.

IIRC it is a screw on type. Since the unit is out of the ceiling and in the shop I am not worried about brazing in a new valve but would rather not if possible.

I also think after reading over some of the info in the links TT posted that the TXV has adjustable superheat. Could I not play with that setting and see if my pressures change from opening up the valve manually? Or does it not work that way?

I'll dig back into it monday.

Thanks!!!

[Binderman]

What I would do is remove refrigerant, and weigh in charge for the GSHP.
Or you can try a couple of options:

Make sure that if this is a variable drive that you have a FAN moving air or it will cut-out on pressure. Or if the pump that supply's water to inlet is not pumping, it will cut out on pressure.

If you put a little R-22 in and say maybe 1 lb or 1 1/2 lbs.and your suction pressure doesn't move check the TXV.If it moves and you get high side moving up check the drier.

Its a Mammoth unit. Same as what was installed at Texas Motorplex. :-)

Air movement is a check!! No problem there. Water side of the system has been gone over from A to Z. I can get the filters in and out now without problems so it was good I messed with the water side. I really thought a few days ago that I had a water issue and after flushing some gunk out of it that that was my problem. No such luck!!

Had a tech put some gas in it with no change when I first started working on it. He said it had a restriction somewhere, but since it was a GEO system he didnt want to dig into it any further. Didnt seem to like my GSHP's.:D

Thanks for the suggestions.

Stayed tuned.

[Binderman]

I was a little corfuzed for a second, sounds like your getting good advice, I'll wait to see pics, loop and duct design are my thing':D

It wasnt you, its was probly my total lack of correct termanology related to the system. I'm a newbie still, sorry!!!

My only gripe about the install (ducts,loops,pumps etc) is that they installed either the disconnect or the pump mounting plates to close to where the air filters have to be slid in/out. Some of the units I had to buy filters half the width of what is needed so that I could install two narrower ones to make up the correct size and make them possible to change.

I have learned a lot about what I want to have changed and what to watch during the install phase when we do our next building.

I'm really gonna feel like a total newb that it took me three pages of thoughts and guestions in this thread to figure out I just had a bad TXV.:o:o

Sorry for the confusion!!!

Thanks!

[Binderman]

I'm really gonna feel like a total newb that it took me three pages of thoughts and guestions in this thread to figure out I just had a bad TXV.:o:o


Ok I'm a Certified Newb!! :o I took the TXV sensing bulb loose from the suction line to try warming it up and watching my pressures and the whole bulb and tube fell off at the TXV. I didint break it off I promise. I guess the shaking that caused the rubbed spot actually broke the tube off at the TXV and let its charge out there and not at the rubbed spot I was worried about initially.

I'll order a couple today and we will see what happens.

Is there a good online supplier for HVAC parts/pieces? I haven't searched the board yet. I try to use Granger for most stuff but they don't list a TXV like I need. Double 1/2" sweat w/ext eq?

Geodude I'll try and get your pics today if possible. Its already been a crazy week. Sick kids and BB playoffs. :) Sorry!!

Thanks all!!

[Binderman]

It works!! A new TXV and all is well. I learned a lot from yall and on my own.

BIG THANKS to everyone that gave input or moral support on this problem.

Its hard to find a forum anymore that tolerates a newbie. Yall took me in as one of your own and helped me work through my issue. Thank yall for that!!

Thanks again guys and gals for all the help and support!!

[Texas-Tech]

apply to the pro forums, you've got enough posts

[flange]

You may still run into issues and not really know it. Most of the smaller Mammoth geo heatpumps have an oversized compressor. In the low pressure circuit there should be a low pressure bypass timer to allow the system to get up to speed before the low pressure cutout is in the safety circuit. These are typically set for two minutes. The water regulating valve needs to be set up in both heating and cooling if you are using one. And finally watch out for the condensate switch. If the unit is not level, it can cause you headaches and show fault codes on the board that will make you nuts. Charge on these smaller units is considered critical, so watch adding and removing refrigerent. They reallly would like you to scale in the charge.

[Binderman]

You may still run into issues and not really know it. Most of the smaller Mammoth geo heatpumps have an oversized compressor. In the low pressure circuit there should be a low pressure bypass timer to allow the system to get up to speed before the low pressure cutout is in the safety circuit. These are typically set for two minutes. The water regulating valve needs to be set up in both heating and cooling if you are using one. And finally watch out for the condensate switch. If the unit is not level, it can cause you headaches and show fault codes on the board that will make you nuts. Charge on these smaller units is considered critical, so watch adding and removing refrigerent. They reallly would like you to scale in the charge.

No water regulating valve or condensate switch.

I really don't like the no condensate switch thing!! Wish I knew then what I do now about these systems. :(

Wonder how long my condensate pans are gonna last in these units? I figure if I get 5 or 6 years with them I will be lucky.

Quality control needs to step it during the assy process!! Numerous places of the case were rubbing on the tubing. Cheap plastic zip ties had broken and fallen off on various things. All the cap tubes vibrated like crazy.

Anyway thanks again for all the help guys!!!