Compressor Failures

[gmp]

Is anyone else experiencing a higher degree of compressor failures with 410a than with r22?

If so, any thoughts on what might be causing this or how to prevent it?

[freonguy]

GMP:

I was the technical support guru for a major HVAC ' brand ' for 7 months a year and a half ago.

While there seemed to be more R-410a failures on newer residential equipment, we were selling many R-410a heat pumps and A/C condensing units. There were lots of TXV and 4 way valve failures and basically way more problems than with R-22, ( and mineral oil ).

When you came down to it though, there were lots of problems with SOME contractors, and, for example, the largest single dealer had virtually NO problems - what did that tell me? They installed the equipment properly, excellent brazing and purging technique, = few problems.

It all boils down to the POE oil - an excellent scrubber and scavenger of any ' dirt ' - if there is no junk in the pipe for the POE to pick up and carry around to the system TXV, 4 way valve etc., things work well.

To sum it up - purge properly and change driers whenever you get a chance and use proper ' refrigeration practices ' - which by the way haven't changed in the past 50 years; mineral oil let us be lazy as to how and when we applied them.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[sodd81927]

The buzz I hear around supply houses with 410A systems seems to be improper charge causing compressor failures. The newer systems are more critical and the old splash and go methods wont get it, hopefuly it will weed out the hacks.

[Hrdworkingacguy]

If there is an abundance of package units losing 410a compressors then I would think there might be something...I haven't ever changed a 410a compressor in 6ish years of installing/servicing them...If its split systems losing compressors then it probably boils down to my saying about the hvac business here in AZ...There are over 1000 companies doing ac work and 90% of the employees are in the wrong line of work...:eek:

[onetime]

We're in the learning curve years for POE oil, training is available but unfortunately you can't make people take it. Just like when recovery came in the good techs got training and adapted quickly, others are still learning the hard way or don't care to learn. I think this is why some MFg's viod warranties if your not certified for 410a. Until people realize that cheap is more expensive HACK's will be with us.

[supertek65]

i agree.
I think 410a compressors are equal to 22 compressors.
you need to purge and vacuum properly.
we have not had any problems.

[airworx]

Compressor failures are caused by overcharging, small return air and if you have small return air then most likely it has been overcharged to get the suction up. Still to many techs do not understand that charging by pressure alone cannot be done with any consistancy. And many do not understand subcooling. So you are going to have compressor failures.

[gsxrsquid]

We have not replace a 410 comps yet. I have however changed out a number of 410 evaps (carrier) under warranty. No scientific data just a feeling. Might not even be related to 410 just a bad run or something. I'm a fan of 410 so I hope it is a fluke

[airworx]

Manufactures are saying that the chemicals used for the building of homes and the chemical we us for the body and house maintenance cause premature coil failures.
This problem is not just a 410 can of worms but also a lot of r22 coils are failing prematurely also.

[sodd81927]

Manufactures are saying that the chemicals used for the building of homes and the chemical we us for the body and house maintenance cause premature coil failures.
This problem is not just a 410 can of worms but also a lot of r22 coils are failing prematurely also.

If they knopw whats causing the problem WHY dont they build a better coil. Or tell us how to fix it.

[AIR RESEARCH]

very little 410A failures...its all about proper installation and ductwork...in the future however we ARE going to have problems keeping gas in these units