Talking in tounges

[ar_hvac_man]

My fiance recently started attending a church that does this. I think its a load of BS. What about yall??:confused:

[bootlen]

If it is not a recognized language, it's BS. AND if there is no one present to interpret the language, it is improper and against Scripture. NOW, from what I can tell from Scripture, tongues is a "sign" gift and no longer a necessity because the reason for the gift of tongues was to quickly get the Gospel to those who did not speak Greek or Hebrew during the early days of the church.

Virtually every church I have attended that had people who spoke in tongues were not speaking a known recognized language. It was mumbo-jumbo...sorta, "Lom lom, lomma molla molla molla molla lom." Bunch'a hooey!

And there are some denoms that teach that if you don't speak in tongues, you are not saved. Shame on those denoms for telling a lie right out of the pit of hell.

[k-fridge]

Just wait 'till they bring the snakes out.......:p

[bootlen]

HAH! She'll spend more time at home then.

[coordinatesales]

I had a friend once that started attending a non-denominational church and asked me to go with her one Sunday. I agreed. I get there and at one point the preacher is going up to everyone in the congregation (about 20-30 people) and stays in front of them praying until they spoke in tongues. She got to me and I told her I was saved man and a Southern Baptist, she'd better move on or we would be there all day waiting for me to speak in tongues. It's not my gift and while some there were speaking in tongues (I recognized Italian and French), others were just babbling and nobody was interpreting. That's not how my bible says it's supposed to be done.

[bootlen]

I had a friend once that started attending a non-denominational church and asked me to go with her one Sunday. I agreed. I get there and at one point the preacher is going up to everyone in the congregation (about 20-30 people) and stays in front of them praying until they spoke in tongues. She...

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, w-e-e-e-e-e-oooooo, w-e-e-e-e-e-ooooo! Red flag! Red flag!

There's yer problem right there.

[mattm]

I was talking with someone years ago that attends such a "churh". they told me they went to classes to learn to speak in tounges. if it's a gift then why do they need to be taught ?

[bootlen]

Hahahaaa! Exactly, Matt. What they were taking were language classes.

There are fruit cakes in every walk of life.

[HeyBob]

my neighbor, whom I consider a holy roller bible thumping nut insistes he speaks in "Tongues". I asked him what it was and also for a demonstration, I never got one.

So, what exactly is "Speaking in Tongues"?

Signed,

Dumb Catholic Boy! :D

[bootlen]

Scripturally, it was a gift to the first Christians in (my memory is shaky, here) in Jerusalem (I think). The book of Acts records it. The Gospel was being preached to an international crowd and there were no interpreters. So God empowered some to be able to communicate in a language not their own in order to expedite the growth of the church.

Later, in one of Paul's epistles, he tells how God wanted the gift of tongues to be used. It should NEVER be used if no one in the house was gifted with interpretation.

But since that time the world is so much more "international", particularly in communication, and the gift of tongues is not need any longer. Other gifts have passed as well and were usually reserved for Apostles. (BTW, the last Apostle to die was John. Anybody who calls himself an Apostle to day is a liar or he has very little understanding of Scripture.)

Edit: The first tongues event took place on Pentecost...the 50th day after Christ's Acension.

[hvacker]

It's a state of spiritual ecstasy where cognizant thought diminishes and sometimes utterances occur that may sound like a foreign language but are simply noises without forethought.
This experience often allows the practitioner to achieve a higher state of spiritual experience.

Tongues can't be taught other than to tell people the experience exists. A person has to have the ability to let go without thinking what might happen. Some people that have a lot of personal mental control might not be able to achieve this experience.

If this is the same experience as told in the Bible I don't know.

It's easy to fake the experience if one wanted. I think this happens in some Christian churches as "Speaking in tongues" is a sign or proof of being " Born again" in the spirit and can carry some status. Also in some churches if someone can't demonstrate tongues some of the congregation won't believe that person is saved and is suspect.

[bootlen]

It's a state of spiritual ecstasy where cognizant thought diminishes and sometimes utterances occur that may sound like a foreign language but are simply noises without forethought.
This experience often allows the practitioner to achieve a higher state of spiritual experience.



That means there is loss of self-control which is contrary ot the fruit of the Spirit. The last (not chronologically) in the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. So if what you say is true, they are not Spirit-filled and very likely not believers.

[ar_hvac_man]

I have a fortysomething, semi-wealthy, valued, repeat customer that I had a service call from today. BS is not in her dictionary if you know what I mean.

She asked me how my day was going and I blurted out fine except my old lady has started speaking in tongues (she hasnt but i thought it was humorous and promptly told the customer i was jk). She says she has an aunt, who is very dear to her, that "speaks in tongues". She then proceeds to tell me what a crock of !@#$ it is and her aunt fakes every bit of it. She also mentions how her aunt makes up all kinds of other crap too. Just general lies and exaggerations about nothing of any real importance.

IMO its all about wanting attention.

Apparently when someone gets the urge to speak in tongues there may or may not be somone in the congregation who is touched by God and can decipher this nonscense. That makes them both liars IMO.

I cant freaking believe my old ladys buying in to it. Im pulling my damn hair out here.
Phew, I dont know if I feel better after venting here or im more worked up.:(

Peace

[mrs reb77]

;lkajldfkdka a d alkdjlja fdf dsa;kl;w0puiol;jad.ml !!

[mrs reb77]

mrs reb types in tongues...:D

[coordinatesales]

Lol!

[k-fridge]

http://www.easysmileys.com/img/tongueout.gif

[william antley]

Worked with a friend a few years ago that attended what he called a "Pentecostal" church. We were talking about salvation one day and he asked me how I knew I was saved. Couldn't give much more of an answer than "Jesus told me I am saved". He told me about speaking in tongues and that if you didn't speak in tongues after you accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you weren't saved.
I didn't know much about this so, I got my Bible and a concordance and did some studying. He's wrong
He also told me about instances of tongues in his church services, people would out of the blue start jabbering in some unknown language that noone could understand, which is contrary to Scripture, one member started speaking some language loudly during a service, the preacher, who claimed to be "sensitive to this sort of thing", stopped everything while this man jabbered and when he was finished, he, noone else, calmly "translated" his speaking. Again contrary to Scripture.
I discussed my studies with my friend, he is a friend evenso, but he disagreed with everything I told him, even when I showed him in my Bible. His preacher also stated that "The King James version of the Bible is the ONLY acceptable translation, no other is acceptable or correct" and mine is a different translation, I use several to help me in my studies.
We'd discuss it back and forth off and on but, I'm pretty sure he won't change his mind about "speaking in tongues". After all, he spoke in tongues when he was saved and I didn't so he's saved and I'm not and he doesn't really want to deal with non-saved people until they're saved. By speaking in tongues.
I have a feeling he's going to be very surprised one day.:(

[bootlen]

Ask your friend, since the King James is the only correct Bible, if that eliminates original Scripture as correct. Then pull a first century Greek interlinear on his lying or ignorant butt.

That'll settle that.

[william antley]

I may have debated that with him but, now I have no idea where to find him. Kind of like he's fallen off the face of the earth.

[mrs reb77]

My husband says he doesn't understand me...maybe I'm talking in tongues? ;)

[r404a]

[QUOTE=hvacker;1731723]Some people that have a lot of personal mental control might not be able to achieve this experience.



Some people here will definately be able to speak in tongues then

[bootlen]

Lol!!

[sysint]

If you read 1 Corinthians chapters 12 and 13 you will find that speaking in tongues would cease (even in the KJV)

In 1 Corinthians chapter 14 Paul himself spoke in "tongues" (foreign language)

1 Cor 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. -NIV

However, he goes on even further: 22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"--NIV

So, what it amounts to is that speaking in foreign languages is for preaching to those that speak and understand that language. And as the scripture states, at the initial expansion of the preaching work, this ability of speaking in another language was given, it didn't need to be learned. Once the preaching activity expanded to these other languages, there would be no need to give this to Christians and the scripture rightly states that type of gift would cease.

[bootlen]

Hey, Sys, I'm glad we have points on which we agree.

Good articulate post.

[coordinatesales]

I'm Scared...I'm not used to seeing Sys and Boots agreeing although I also have to agree with Sys in this one.

[william antley]

I pause to consider sysint's post, I have been with people who have claimed to have witnessed "speaking in tongues" but, not the jabber most commonly thought of when it's mentioned. What they tell they have experienced is that someone of their group speaks with someone whose primary language is not what the speaker uses but the listener does understand what the speaker says. This occurrence has always, as I have been told, been when the speaker is working to witness to this person, or people, and tell them of the greatness, grace and love of Jesus. I'm kinda leery of saying that "speaking in tongues" no longer occurs when I hear Christians I trust tell me of these happenings.

[sysint]

The Bible states it would cease. No need to be leery about it. Even so, the translation for speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a foreign language. For instance, if you speak English and would without any training instantly start speaking French and a French speaking person could understand it. If you are saying some "language" that the only two people that understand it are standing next to each other in that "church" I'd be getting leery.....

Not to go without mentioning the purpose of speaking this foreign language was preaching. Just what were they preaching and in what language?

[Twilly]

Twilli says you ARPers are a bunch of haters, one of Twilli's favorite people spoke in tongues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94x9RO8JgTA

[bootlen]

Twilli says you ARPers are a bunch of haters, one of Twilli's favorite people spoke in tongues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94x9RO8JgTA

Leave it to Twilli to find an actual video of someone "speaking in tongues".

Yabba dabba doooooooo!!!

[hvacker]

Gotta say it, you'll got it wrong again.... Forget French, Arabic or whatever.. It's not about being religiously correct. It's an experience in many cultures in different forms. Like dance, meditation, even pain. Most won't ever experience anything like it.

The real basis for a spiritual belief system is based in experience not teaching. Teaching comes as a need to understand what a person experienced but the path to understanding lies in the mystery.

The only Christian with a history in the mysteries in the Catholic. Others have had it for a time but the numbers game is always an issue.

For some of you I hope your belief is strong enough for you to dare to to find out if there is anything beyond studying letters.

I know those out there that know Genesis to Revolutions will quote this and that but to a spiritual person it is just like the Pharisees. White washed tombs full of dead mans bones.

Almost all religions just teach stuff and equate spiritual experience as BS. Their scared to death. Leaders have control issues.

I double dog dare you to actually find out if the experience is true.

And please, enough of the Bible quotes.

And I guess the next question... Have I??? Yup!!!! Many moons ago and it's still with me. And NO I wasn't on some Psychotropic substance.

One last thought.... Arrogance might just be an attitude that deprives you of your next step.

[bootlen]

Thanks, but I'll stick with what God has told us.

[william antley]

The Bible states it would cease. No need to be leery about it. Even so, the translation for speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a foreign language. For instance, if you speak English and would without any training instantly start speaking French and a French speaking person could understand it. If you are saying some "language" that the only two people that understand it are standing next to each other in that "church" I'd be getting leery.....

Not to go without mentioning the purpose of speaking this foreign language was preaching. Just what were they preaching and in what language?

I understand you completely sysint, what I referred to last post was your "For instance" above. My friends "church" was the next reference about only a "select few" understanding the "tongues" and I was very leery, concerned for my friend and quick to read my Bible to find the truth of the matter. I am just wondering about "tongues" ceasing but, I will get my Bible and study.
The "speaking in tongues" I was referring to about my trusted Christian friends occured during missions outreach in some third world country, I can not remember which one, where they were spreading the gospel and having some difficulty as English was not the primary language of the people there. One of them began to speak to the people and be understood by the people even though the speaker was not conversant in their language, but he was understood. And a few of the people there came to Christ because of him managing to "speak their language" telling them about Jesus.
I am having a bit of difficulty as I am trying to remember this from my youth. Best of my recollection is the speaker was not speaking the native language as others with him heard him speaking in English but, the natives heard their own tongue. This was determined later through an interpreter.

[bootlen]

WA, you can find it in I Corinthians 13.

[sysint]

.....I know those out there that know Genesis to Revolutions will quote this and that but to a spiritual person it is just like the Pharisees. White washed tombs full of dead mans bones.....And please, enough of the Bible quotes. You refer to a Biblical quote, yet you have had enough of them?

Jesus himself quoted scripture often. I see no problem with that. I do see a problem when man made thoughts come in to displace what is written.

[william antley]

WA, you can find it in I Corinthians 13.

Thanks!:D

[hvacker]

You refer to a Biblical quote, yet you have had enough of them?

Jesus himself quoted scripture often. I see no problem with that. I do see a problem when man made thoughts come in to displace what is written.

What was written has many not in agreement. There are a lot of man made thoughts involved in any path. That's why there so many different beliefs. Different interpretations. Reading the Word is also a path to enlightenment.

One is an intellectual ascension the other is spiritual experience.
Maybe there are churches out there that tell people to mumble noises to appear to be exercising some gift. That isn't any path for anyone to get distracted with.
For those that think the spiritual gifts were for another dispensation I would ask do they believe in healing? Prophecy? Others?
A lot of churches fear "The Gifts" as it's so ez to loose control.
I admit I have a tendency to jump into waters over my head. I haven't drowned yet but I have gotten awful wet.
I wouldn't want to trade my experiences for only a mental concept but that's just me. I think the two belong together.

[scrogdog]

I am following this with great interest. I'm not sure why it matters if one does or doesn't, but it is interesting nonetheless.


For some of you I hope your belief is strong enough for you to dare to to find out if there is anything beyond studying letters.

This is like... the quote of the century... coming from a believer. :)

My hat is off to you HVAC.

[sysint]

What was written has many not in agreement. There are a lot of man made thoughts involved in any path. That's why there so many different beliefs. Different interpretations. Reading the Word is also a path to enlightenment. ....The problem comes in when somebody wants an outcome based on their euphoric feelings. Or, when they have a presupposed doctrine they have to support outside of what is simply written. The trouble these days is everybody changes things to feel good. That's not the way the Bible was written. It laid out the writers good and bad choices, and is mostly plain spoken. It's plain spoken in 1 Corinthians when it says which gifts would cease that you have maintained a fanciful attraction toward.

[ar_hvac_man]

Well, the old lady just walked out the door to go thump her bible. What kills me is the fact that the fanatic knee-benders dont want to hear facts or logic. Its all about faith. "I dont care about facts or logic, I have faith" she says. Pshhh give me a break. IMO you dont need church to have a relationship with God. Seems to me the weak minded ppl with some empty feeling in them do need church.
Why is it all the murders, child rapists, etc., find god once theyve been locked up? IMO its a cop-out, a way to deal with the horrendous things they have done.

[bootlen]

Well, the old lady just walked out the door to go thump her bible. What kills me is the fact that the fanatic knee-benders dont want to hear facts or logic. Its all about faith. "I dont care about facts or logic, I have faith" she says. Pshhh give me a break. IMO you dont need church to have a relationship with God. Seems to me the weak minded ppl with some empty feeling in them do need church.
Why is it all the murders, child rapists, etc., find god once theyve been locked up? IMO its a cop-out, a way to deal with the horrendous things they have done.

Heroes do, too. When Randy "Duke" Cunningham was knocked out of the sky by a SAM during the VN war, as he chuted down, he saw NVN on the left and the Navy Rescue team on the right. He called on God to save him by being carried out to sea into the awaiting Navy team.

God was gracious on that day and "Duke", the first American "Ace" in VN was rescued. He later became a state legislator in CA. I think we all know what happened to "Randall Cunningham there after later saying it was he (Cunningham) and he alone who was responsible for his air victories and rescue. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham )

And you thought all the hypocrits were in church.:rolleyes:

Nothin' like spittin' in the face of God.:eek:

:cool:

[hvacker]

The problem comes in when somebody wants an outcome based on their euphoric feelings. Or, when they have a presupposed doctrine they have to support outside of what is simply written. The trouble these days is everybody changes things to feel good. That's not the way the Bible was written. It laid out the writers good and bad choices, and is mostly plain spoken. It's plain spoken in 1 Corinthians when it says which gifts would cease that you have maintained a fanciful attraction toward.

I wouldn't refer to a spiritual experience as fanciful. Many belief systems are based on just that, an experience.
I would like to clear up one point though. In my experience it wasn't about tongues. It was about a spiritual experience where tongues or what I'll call utterances, were a product of the experience. It wasn't my intention to speak in tongues.
I won't speak of my experience in detail as I believe these things can be lost in talk. What I will say is I experienced a sense of breaking through a Vail and I could hear myself as if in a distance making utterances. It was remarkable for me and has stayed. If this is what early Christians experienced I don't know.
I do agree with you that these experiences won't by themselves be enough to sustain a person forever. I also believe is if someone relies on teaching w/o some spiritual revelation they will become simply a head trip. All answers and no substance.
I feel these experiences are above all personal. While I know there are many churches that actively seek the gifts I think they are easily prone to error. There is a lever of ambition connected with the gifts that people seem to fall into.