True Americans

[refer guy]

I am a 30 year old American who was born from Mexican parents. Born in the USA, served our country, became a war veteran, you will never see me with a mexican flag or sticker on my vehicle, more like a US Marine sticker for sure.

I believe that anyone who has served in our millitary are the True Americans, Millitary men and woman have made the sacrifice for their country, have demonstrated their commitment, and pride for this country, I once asked a civilian, what makes you an American other then the fact that you were lucky enough to of been born here just like me, his response was that he pays taxes, i told him that even the illegals have to pay taxes, wether illegals use a fake identification or not, they are still being taxed on their check and dont get any of the benefits that all americans get when filing their yearly income taxes.

Ive also ran into civilian who claim to be so proud for their country because their father or someone they know has served in the millitary, i find them to be a joke......yeah your father is a true American but you are like the illegals sucking our country of its benefits and anything you can get free.

Oh well, ive been meaning to get all that out of my system, there is more to come, tried keeping it short and to the point.:D

[The Doctor]

Correlation is not the same as causality.
That means that you may be a patriot, in the "true American" sense.
Not everyone who serves in the military has the same motive as you.
Therefore, it does not follow that all motives are born from love of country.

It would seem that it certainly could be true, but according to the liberal media, most of those serving in the military "had nowhere else to go, but down". I would also disagree with their conclusions about the quality of individual who serves in the military. It is true that people have differing motives for serving.
I think,based on what you typed, that you exemplify the American spirit, and more to the point, exemplify a person who is a patriot to the United States of America.
I also am born of foreign folks.

But we also have to be wary of the mercenary side of those who provide auxiliary services to our military, such as subcontractors. Those folks are not necessarily doing so out of love of country. They might have needed a job... who knows?

But your story is one of nationalistic service, and as far as I'm concerned, there is much good in nationalism in the sense which you seem to be describing.

[coolwhip]

Sorry dude, just because you were in the military doesnt make you Paul Revere. :rolleyes:

[Johnny Law]

Sorry dude, just because you were in the military doesnt make you Paul Revere. :rolleyes:


It makes him closer to being Paul Revere than a lot of others.

Just thank him for his service. Did you serve?

[coolwhip]

Nope, I didnt serve, but neither did all the people that made amunition, planes, tanks and ships for our GI's to win the war. Are these folks not patriots or true Americans?
How about the folks that sacrificed many of their belongings to live comfortably in order to support the war effort. Are these folks not patriots or true Americans.

What about Betsy Ross, is she American??

I think the military is a fine establishment, but I dont think it gives you the right to pass judgement nor does it give you the right to judge what is patriotic and what isnt. One should not develope a fat head and walk about spouting off generalizations about who is American and who isnt just because they have served in the armed forces..

[refer guy]

coolwhip, i understand what you are saying and i agree that there are some civilians who have made sacrifices for their country and are worthy of being a true american. However in this part of our beloved country i have met more scumbags then good people and my generalization is true.

Now you say that because i served in the millitary that it does not give me the right to judge on who is patriotic and who is not, Alright then, you tell me then who does? Also let me ask you, do you have pride for this country, do you consider yourself to be an American, and what have you done for your country other than paying taxes, starting your own company, creating jobs, all crap that i and any one who has been born here can do.

[coolwhip]

No man has the right to judge another man, for no man is perfect.

Do I have pride in this country you ask? I have pride in what this country used to be, which was a country whos power was determined by the people and not sold to the corporations which now control this country.

In times of war, one must do what is necessary. Some choose to fight in a war where they have no say and are simply a number. Others need to work and pay taxes to support the war so you have bullets to shoot, water to drink, and antibiotics to prevent you from becoming ill.
It is also the taxpayer that provides assisstance to the families whom have lost a mother or father to the war.
It is also the duty of citizens and tax payers to rehabilitate you in a VA hospital once you have been wounded.

Without your so called un American civillian back home, you just might find yourself on a battlefield in a loin cloth throwing rocks.

There are many ways to be patriotic, many of them may not involve engaging the enemie directly, but are just as important none the less.

One wy I showed my appreciation to the soldiers, was to help raise monies for new kevlar jackets that apparently wear out.

[scrogdog]

Everyone is welcome to an opinion.

What I hate is apathy.

The answer I would give if someone were to ask me why I consider myself a good American would be very simple and to the core... I vote. I care.

As far as I am concerned, everyone in ARP are great Americans. Because they vote. Because they care.

If you were in the military and do not vote, sorry, I would not consider that a good American.

[bootlen]

No man has the right to judge another man, for no man is perfect.


Where did referguy sentence anybody? He merely made a personal observation.

[refer guy]

Everyone is welcome to an opinion.

What I hate is apathy.

The answer I would give if someone were to ask me why I consider myself a good American would be very simple and to the core... I vote. I care.

As far as I am concerned, everyone in ARP are great Americans. Because they vote. Because they care.

If you were in the military and do not vote, sorry, I would not consider that a good American.

What if you are a civilian and dont vote, what does that make you, statistics have shown that alot of persons born here dont vote.

You make it sound like voting and joining the millitary are on the same level. Voting takes 15 minutes of waiting in line and researching the different candidates while on your couch, being in the millitary takes a minumum of four years of sacrifice for this country.

[scrogdog]

One can also be in the military and be apathetic about what is going on politically in your country. The sword cuts both ways.

I hate to tell you this, but our founding fathers weren't military men, they were statesmen. To understand America and be a good American, you must read and understand things like the Constitution and the Federalist Papers. You must read about issues and politicians, and cast your vote intelligently. You must care about the fundamental things that make us Americans, like freedom and equal rights for all and preserving civil rights. And you must do your utmost to make sure that those things are preserved.

Don't get me wrong, I admire and respect anyone whom has served in the military. I would, however, lose at least some of that respect if one were politically apathetic.

I understand the sacrifices made by our great military men and women, but don't tell me that you don't know what to DO with freedom once you have it. :)

One man's opinion.

Oh and...


What if you are a civilian and dont vote, what does that make you

That's an easy one. It makes you a moron.

[Johnny Law]

Nope, I didnt serve, but neither did all the people that made amunition, planes, tanks and ships for our GI's to win the war. Are these folks not patriots or true Americans?
How about the folks that sacrificed many of their belongings to live comfortably in order to support the war effort. Are these folks not patriots or true Americans.

What about Betsy Ross, is she American??

I think the military is a fine establishment, but I dont think it gives you the right to pass judgement nor does it give you the right to judge what is patriotic and what isnt. One should not develope a fat head and walk about spouting off generalizations about who is American and who isnt just because they have served in the armed forces..

LOL... Guy if there is one thing that is uniquely American about Americans, they have the brains and forethought not to teach a Veteran about who is an American.

Much less comparing stamping out bullets which is now don't by machines to actually taking one in the gut.

[Senior Tech]

Well let's see, I served in the military...nope, just makes me a veteran.

Because I was born here...nope, just a location on a birth certificate.

What makes me American is the totality of my existence.

My family has always stood up for what they believe, right or wrong.

I will always stand behind my country and President, whether or not I believe he is making mistakes.

I take pride in the American Flag to the point where at times seeing it blow in the wind sends goose bumps down my back, knowing what it, and the people who died for it have went thru so it could fly.

You can all moan and groan all you want, high taxes, high prices, poor economy...I on the other hand will always have a half full glass in my hand, simply because I realize in many countrys it would be empty...that is if I were allowed to own a glass. :)

[chucko615]

Everyone can't be a hero, somebody has to stand on the side of the road and wave when the parade goes by.........

[bootlen]

Well let's see, I served in the military...nope, just makes me a veteran.

Because I was born here...nope, just a location on a birth certificate.

What makes me American is the totality of my existence.

My family has always stood up for what they believe, right or wrong.

I will always stand behind my country and President, whether or not I believe he is making mistakes.

I take pride in the American Flag to the point where at times seeing it blow in the wind sends goose bumps down my back, knowing what it, and the people who died for it have went thru so it could fly.

You can all moan and groan all you want, high taxes, high prices, poor economy...I on the other hand will always have a half full glass in my hand, simply because I realize in many countrys it would be empty...that is if I were allowed to own a glass. :)

Well said, ST.

VERY well said, indeed.

[scrogdog]

I agree, nicely said.

With that, I'd like to raise my half-full glass and offer a toast to Refer and all of you who have served our great country. Thanks for protecting my family.

[RoBoTeq]

I would assume that Americans like refer must have a difficult time hearing some white bread (bred) pompous Americans make claims that Mexicans and other Latino's are all a problem in the U.S.

We really do need to stop being callously bigoted and even misguidedly prejudicial when it comes to who is an American or not. Americans come in literally every race, color and creed which is exactly what the United States of America is about.

While it is true that not all who serve in the armed forces in the U.S. are absolutely loyal Americans, I will accept that anyone who has served this country has my respect as an American.

[troyorr]

Serving in the military shouldn't give you the right to condemn others just because they didn't serve. Your rant about non-veterans being a joke is out of line. As a vetern, you of all people should respect anyones right and decision to join or not join. How long did you serve? Where were you posted? What heroic deeds did you perform? What circumstance or situation occured that caused you to present your rant and rave? Were you the subject of some grievious injustice perpetuated against you because you are a veteran?
My grandmother didn't serve, she did travel from Ohio to California during World War 2 and worked in the shipyards. My Aunt didn't serve but she did travel to Georgia and built aircraft during World War 2. My mother didn't serve but I wouldn't consider her any less of a true American, proud of her country. You have to be careful throwing those comments out and trying to paint everyone with the same brush when everything isn't egual.

[refer guy]

Serving in the military shouldn't give you the right to condemn others just because they didn't serve. Your rant about non-veterans being a joke is out of line. As a vetern, you of all people should respect anyones right and decision to join or not join. How long did you serve? Where were you posted? What heroic deeds did you perform? What circumstance or situation occured that caused you to present your rant and rave? Were you the subject of some grievious injustice perpetuated against you because you are a veteran?
My grandmother didn't serve, she did travel from Ohio to California during World War 2 and worked in the shipyards. My Aunt didn't serve but she did travel to Georgia and built aircraft during World War 2. My mother didn't serve but I wouldn't consider her any less of a true American, proud of her country. You have to be careful throwing those comments out and trying to paint everyone with the same brush when everything isn't egual.

Read the whole damm thread, on my sixth post i tell coolwhip that i recognize that some civillians are worthy of being called an American due to some of the sacrifices they have done for OUR country.

These questions you have..........are similar questions that all civilians born here should be asking themselves before they judge the next hispanic they see.

Would i of struck less of a nerve if i had left the word mexican out my post or do you just dont like to hear the truth.

[refer guy]

I would assume that Americans like refer must have a difficult time hearing some white bread (bred) pompous Americans make claims that Mexicans and other Latino's are all a problem in the U.S.

We really do need to stop being callously bigoted and even misguidedly prejudicial when it comes to who is an American or not. Americans come in literally every race, color and creed which is exactly what the United States of America is about.

While it is true that not all who serve in the armed forces in the U.S. are absolutely loyal Americans, I will accept that anyone who has served this country has my respect as an American.

Robo, you sound like a true American,

this is the same thing i believe about Americans coming from every race, color and creed. The people who make True sacrifices for this country come from all over the world, in Iraq i even worked along side Middle Eastern people who had been in the Marines for years, born Americans, and assisted their country in all they could. For these modern times it seems like this country is getting worst, and for a country who promotes world peace is a joke when with in our own borders people are against each other.

[wolfstrike]

THIS IS THE LITMUS TEST
...for who is "true American" and who is not.

a "true American" has understanding of the goals of the nation when it was founded from the anti-federalist point of view.

the nation has run it's course and the anti-federalist views turned out to be right.

if you don't know anything about Thomas Jefferson and recognize him as perhaps the greatest politician of the modern world, then you are not a true American.

Ben Franklin
Samuel Adams
Tom Payne
Washington
etc...

these aren't just names out of history.

if you don't recognize the crimes of the current government, and understand the idea of limited government, you are not American

things that instantly disqualify you...
voting Democrat. (does not mean you have to vote Republican)
supporting the ACLU.
being anti-gun
believing there is a Constitutional law called "seperation of church and state"
hating white people.
believing that America was founded to be "capitalist"
believing the Supreme Court, or the DMV, has the power to pull laws out of their ass, and dictate the life of the public.


as you can see, there is no race qualification,
but it's very difficult for non-white people to break the non-stop brainwashing of the last 60years by the media and the government, and reject the hand-outs, freebies, and accept the reality that their failures are there own and not the work of klansmen who are never seen or heard.

[scrogdog]

I guess I didn't get the memo. :confused:

[Johnny Law]

Everyone can't be a hero, somebody has to stand on the side of the road and wave when the parade goes by.........

Yep

http://www.sellingdfwhomes.com/images/wheelchair.jpg

[jmac00]

uuum what makes a *TRUE AMERICAN*

I have come to the conclusion that a *True American* is anyone one the planet that was either born here, or comes here to better there lives and the lives of there fellow citizens.

One does not need to be in the military or a Veteran. One only needs to have free will to do as they please without breaking the laws of society.

I think that there is NOTHING more American than the voice of dissent.


I resent the fact that anyone, anywhere, would call me UN-AMERICAN ( or even NOT AS American as someone else ) simply because I did not serve in the military.

You want to be a *TRUE AMERICAN*, be a good person. Obey the laws of society and help your fellow man when they need help.

Plain and simple

[sline-dawg]

Yep

http://www.sellingdfwhomes.com/images/wheelchair.jpg


Damn Johnny, That gave me the goose-bumps.....Thanks...:)

[RoBoTeq]

The best thing about being an American is that anyone can be one. My ancestral name is Scottish but became Scots-Irish with the advent of Scots being awarded land in Ireland by the British.

Now, some with my came to the U.S. as wealthy Scotsmen who owned slaves. This is why there are many Black Americans with the same name as mine. Then later on, many more with my name came to the U.S. as very poor Irish immigrants who in some cases were themselves indentured slaves.

So, while I get to be an American born white bread (bred) guy by no doing of my own, I have ancestors who were most likely treated like dirt when they first came to this country. As a priveledged white person I need to respect my ancestry by accepting all come here for the same purpose as my ancestors did as long as they are here to better themselves while also becoming an attribute to this country.

The real point is that we cannot, by just looking at someone or by knowing their last name, know who are Americans and who are illegal immigrants. With this in mind, I try to always refrain from making blanketed comments about any race of people as far as their rights to be a fellow American.

[glennac]

Referguy, I whole heartily agree with your posts. I think the vast majority of those serving in the military are patriots now as was the case in the Vietnam war when we were fighting the communists while the commie loving liberals (leftist Democrats) where pushing for victory for there side the communist. The same thing is happening today. They are more sneaky about it now though. Having our troops court marshaled for doing there jobs, cutting funds off and criticizing our military leaders for trying to do their job and win. I fought with Mexican Americans from Texas and California and Cuban Americans in our unit the 11th Cavalry Regiment. Hell we had a Canadian and a German who volunteered to fight with us and they were still citizens of their countries. We all got along fine and fought the communist North Vietnamese together.

[k-fridge]

Folks,

This is a good topic albeit an emotional one. Just wanted to remind everyone to keep it civil so the discussion can continue.

Thanks for you cooperation. :)

[coolwhip]

Yep...and a 4 star general is a way better american than a 3 star...LOL:D

[markettech]

K_Dude - it was not my intention to add to the drama...this thread just caught me off guard a little.

I'm going to edit my OP on this thread.........can you delete mine from CW's post?

[coolwhip]

K_Dude - it was not my intention to add to the drama...this thread just caught me off guard a little.

I'm going to edit my OP on this thread.........can you delete mine from CW's post?

Wussie:p

[troyorr]

I'm confused. Are you angry at Mexicans and Latinos that never served or are you mad at illegal aliens of any nationality? Was your original post in response to some negative comment directed towards you as a Mexican? You should be more tolerant yourself. Just my opinion.

[troyorr]

referguy, you didn't strike a nerve. Mexican didn't come into play until brought up by someone else. As for the truth, I missed whatever point it was you were trying to make. Your original post was vague. You didn't answer the questions I ask so I still don't understand what it was that set you off. ROBO, I didn't see/read where anyone said that Mexicans or Lations were a problem in this country. I know refertech alluded to that in his orginal post but that seems to be a problem he has to deal with. I don't see where the two, nationality and patriotism, should be co-dependant or tied together.

[markettech]

Wussie:p

More like respect for the K_Dude.......but whatever.:rolleyes:...............:D

[Milk man]

What should be done with illegal parents of American citizens? I personally would like to keep most of them here and deport a lot of white trash that I run into frequently.

BTW, I think every able bodied American should serve his/her country in one form or another right out of high school. Military or civil/human right organization. Then off to college or what ever.

[glennac]

What should be done with illegal parents of American citizens? I personally would like to keep most of them here and deport a lot of white trash that I run into frequently. BTW, I think every able bodied American should serve his/her country in one form or another right out of high school. Military or civil/human right organization. Then off to college or what ever.

You are full of it as usual Milk. There is nothing in the constitution that makes some one a citizen because they were born here. This is a bad interpretation of the 14th Amendment. I say you have to be either born of American parents or naturalized to become a citizen and not just downloaded in the US by illegals and most likely at taxpayers expense.

Now you are suggesting that we start deporting Americans whom you don't like then I suggest that we start with the hippies, communists, radical Muslims who want to kill us, professional welfare types and in general the leaches in our society and those who want to destroy our American way of life.

[markettech]

Ive also ran into civilian who claim to be so proud for their country because their father or someone they know has served in the millitary, i find them to be a joke......yeah your father is a true American but you are like the illegals sucking our country of its benefits and anything you can get free.



Now you are suggesting that we start deporting Americans whom you don't like then I suggest that we start with the hippies, communists, professional welfare types and in general the leaches in our society and those who want to destroy our American way of life.

So basically you and the refer are on the same page then, right?......If you haven't served in the military, you aren't an American and don't belong here?

[Milk man]

We have got to keep the old hippies. Just for entertainment:D

So if you are born in America, you still might not be an Americian.

[glennac]

So basically you and the refer are on the same page then, right?......If you haven't served in the military, you aren't an American and don't belong here?

You are full of it too market. Where did I say or suggest that you have to have served in the military to be a patriot, American or what ever. I simply agree that most of those who have served are patriots. So are lots of those who haven't served and who those who can't. I have simply defined who I do not consider "true Americans" in my post while including most who have served as patriots. If you want to argue with that then be my guest but don't put words in my mouth or anybody Else's. Are we clear? I hope so.

[Milk man]

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.





Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article

[refer guy]

K_Dude - it was not my intention to add to the drama...this thread just caught me off guard a little.

I'm going to edit my OP on this thread.........can you delete mine from CW's post?

wow, seems like i missed something, ive rarely read you loose your cool.:D

[glennac]

The 14th Amendment gave citizenship to the freed salves since there parents weren't citizens. It was not intended to give citizenship to those who came here illegally and gave birth. Congress in the past has tried to pass a law clarifying this but due to politics and Democrats in Congress this has not succeeded. It is a real problem for our country and I believe that the US is the only country in the world which allows this sort of thing and thus legalizing an invasion of our great country. What a shame.

[k-fridge]

wow, seems like i missed something, ive rarely read you loose your cool.:D
Wasn't any biggie.

[refer guy]

Alrighty now, i dont mean to piss off everyone, theres alot of quality techs that are getting heated up, and my targeted audience was really for alot of scumbags that post trash about mexicans here in ARP, unfortunately those scumbags are not contributing to this post, and i just wanted to get them where it hurts.

I still however believe that there is a difference between a citizen and Military Man or Woman. A citizen is someone who is born here or eventualy became one legaly, and yes these people are Americans. A military person has to be considered more American then the rest because it is undisputible of the sacrifice these men and woman have given, these men and woman have put their lives on the line, in the path of danger, for their country, for their flag, for their friends, for their family, that is the ultimate sacrifice, and just for that these people are the True Americans. Someone on this thread wrote that one of their family members worked in the ship yards during the war and that she was very proud of her country, well that is honorable and she may of been very proud but she was also getting a check and most likely she had to work, like i said its honorable but you just cant put this lady on the same level as the man or woman who gets deployed.

[hvac_superman]

I did not join the military so I guess I am not a true american by your definition. I contribute money every year to cancer research, homeless shelters, childhood deseases and make a wish foundation. I also contribute to Navy veterans even though the person on the other end of the line was extremely rude the one time I didn't contribute. How much did you contribute to charities last year? I think every american has an obligation to do the same and if you don't guys.....................well your not an american in my book either.

All kidding aside its a great thing that you feel so proud of your service to our country and I am thankful for people like you for all the sacrifices made. But I don't think there is much of a difference between my american pride and yours just because I didn't serve. I still bleed red white and blue man. I get a tear in my eye when I hear the national anthem peformed at a football game as two fighter jets zoom over. Show a little respect for us hard working americans who did give you the opportunity to serve in such a strong military. Without the taxpayers where would your military be? It kind of works two ways dosen't it. We need you and you need us.

[markettech]

Refer guy - I think I understand what it is you are trying to say.......and I respect that. In fact, any of the men and women who have been in the military garner my respect whether they have actually been deployed, been in battle, or ride a desk somewhere.

What chaps my a$$ is you painting with such a WIDE brush.

I personally know several people - people in law enforcement - that lay their life on the line every day they walk out the door of their home to start a shift. They do this for you, for me, for everyone - so that we can all feel safe walking the streets of our city or lay our heads on our pillow at night without worry of getting burglarized, raped, or murdered.

Some of these people have never been in the military - in fact, one of these guys just lost his life yesterday trying to keep other American citizens safe.............and somehow he's not a "true" American?

Here, you're just a screen name and an avatar - and you say whatever you can think of to try and get a rise out of someone.

Jason was a flesh and blood human being that won't be going home to his wife anymore.

Sometimes just because you can say whatever you want here - it doesn't mean you have to.

[refer guy]

Police Officers have my respect aswell, they are definately True Americans, and are in the way of danger every dam day until or if they make it to retirement. Police Officers go through an Academy very similar to a boot camp where they are taught or reminded that everyone no matter what race creed or religion other persons may be, are treated with the same courtesy, respect, and to protect fellow Americans.

[Milk man]

The 14th Amendment gave citizenship to the freed salves since there parents weren't citizens. It was not intended to give citizenship to those who came here illegally and gave birth. Congress in the past has tried to pass a law clarifying this but due to politics and Democrats in Congress this has not succeeded. It is a real problem for our country and I believe that the US is the only country in the world which allows this sort of thing and thus legalizing an invasion of our great country. What a shame.

I get your message loud and clear. Thanks for the clarification.

[RoBoTeq]

Yep...and a 4 star general is a way better american than a 3 star...LOL:D

We were asked to keep it civil so I won't comment on how stupid this is.

[markettech]

Robo, you're reading it out of context.

Coolio was quoting me and responding to that quote -

[RoBoTeq]

What should be done with illegal parents of American citizens? I personally would like to keep most of them here and deport a lot of white trash that I run into frequently.

BTW, I think every able bodied American should serve his/her country in one form or another right out of high school. Military or civil/human right organization. Then off to college or what ever.

OK, I'm backing off on my libby comments about you, but I'm still gonna keep my eye on you just in case you are trying to fool me;)

[RoBoTeq]

Robo, you're reading it out of context.

Coolio was quoting me and responding to that quote -

OK, to whichever one of you originally made that statement, I will not state how stupid it is:rolleyes:

[markettech]

OK, to whichever one of you originally made that statement, I will not state how stupid it is:rolleyes:

Ya know, there are times where I'd just like to reach through my computer screen and........................

How can you state anything with any sense of intelligence when you don't know what the hell was being discussed? - you knucklehead:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

If there is anyone who claims that only Americans who have served in the U.S. military are real Americans, I do whole heartedly disagree with that.

There are those who serve and those who support those who serve. Anyone who neither serves or supports those who serve cannot possibly be loyal Americans.

Of the supporting Americans, they can be of any lot in life and be real Americans.

Foreign born Americans who have become citizens of the United States are every bit as American as natural born Americans. The main difference between the two is that foreign born American citizens chose to be American and usually have a much better knowledge of American history and civil law because they had to study these things in order to become Americans.

[RoBoTeq]

Ya know, there are times where I'd just like to reach through my computer screen and........................

How can you state anything with any sense of intelligence when you don't know what the hell was being discussed? - you knucklehead:rolleyes:

I just can't believe you called me a name after all the trouble I went through to not call you stupid:cool:

[markettech]

I just can't believe you called me a name after all the trouble I went through to not call you stupid:cool:

I laughed so loud I think I woke the kids up.......:D:D

Knock it off, would ya

[coolwhip]

It was dumb and funny Robin, thats why there is an LOL and a smiley...you silly little monkey you.

[RoBoTeq]

It was dumb and funny Robin, thats why there is an LOL and a smiley...you silly little monkey you.

And someday I may evolve into a silly little man:rolleyes:

[hvactech13]

IMHO serving in the Military or being a Police Officer doesn't make someone an American. People who strive to make America a better place by their actions are "real" Americans. The people who help others even though they can't really afford to, or the ones who are willing to die for someone they have never met are the ones I see as a "real" American.

I served in the Navy, am a Volunteer Firefighter/EMT, and work on HVAC. That doesn't instantly make me a "real" American. I have had the pleasure of meeting people in all of those occupations from different Nationalities, and I can honestly say that not all of them were what I would consider an American.

The "ME" factor prevents many from being a true Patriot.

[trane]

Alrighty now, i dont mean to piss off everyone, theres alot of quality techs that are getting heated up, and my targeted audience was really for alot of scumbags that post trash about mexicans here in ARP, unfortunately those scumbags are not contributing to this post, and i just wanted to get them where it hurts.

I still however believe that there is a difference between a citizen and Military Man or Woman. A citizen is someone who is born here or eventualy became one legaly, and yes these people are Americans. A military person has to be considered more American then the rest because it is undisputible of the sacrifice these men and woman have given, these men and woman have put their lives on the line, in the path of danger, for their country, for their flag, for their friends, for their family, that is the ultimate sacrifice, and just for that these people are the True Americans. Someone on this thread wrote that one of their family members worked in the ship yards during the war and that she was very proud of her country, well that is honorable and she may of been very proud but she was also getting a check and most likely she had to work, like i said its honorable but you just cant put this lady on the same level as the man or woman who gets deployed.

Am I missing something or do you really believe this?

[refer guy]

This is the only kind of english that i know, or do you need a translator, do you want it in spanish because thats the only other language i know.

[trane]

This is the only kind of english that i know, or do you need a translator, do you want it in spanish because thats the only other language i know.

I don't know why I should waste my time but this lady in the ship yard cannot be judged by you. I thank you for your time but how are we to know you intended to be deployed when you signed up? Being deployed is the deciding factor right? I would think on your scale you would have a separate category for those that didn't think it would happen when they signed up and I'm sure you would rate higher than them.

[hvactech13]

Not trying to put words in Refer Guys mouth, but I believe what he is saying is that the men and women serving in the Military are true Americans because they are willing to lay their life down to ensure that those living here can continue to have their freedom.

No matter what anyone does here, the level of sacrifice is not the same. Manufacturing equipment/supplies, or flying a Flag don't match the willingness to die for your country.

[markettech]

Not trying to put words in Refer Guys mouth, but I believe what he is saying is that the men and women serving in the Military are true Americans because they are willing to lay their life down to ensure that those living here can continue to have their freedom.

No matter what anyone does here, the level of sacrifice is not the same. Manufacturing equipment/supplies, or flying a Flag don't match the willingness to die for your country.


This I can understand much better than some ooh-rah "civilians are leeches" garbage.

Our military men and women do not WANT to die for our USA, but yes, they have consciously made a decision to do so if need be..........so the rest of us can go on living a life of freedom.

With that said, how can a person not place ANYONE who has ever served in our Armed Forces a peg or two above our normal citizens? I honestly don't think it's possible.

Now, are these wonderful men and women more dedicated to our country than anyone else living here? Are they patriotic to the core? Are they willing to do things most of us can't bring ourselves to think about?

The answer is yes to all of the above.

But, are they any more true an American than the rest of the legal citizens of the United States? Since when did we start designating 'shades' of Americanism? You either are an American, or you are not. There is not true, truer, and trueist...............is there?

[hvactech13]

This I can understand much better than some ooh-rah "civilians are leeches" garbage.

I am just assuming that what I wrote is in fact his intent. If it is, I'm glad I could help make it clearer. If it isn't, sorry but I am as lost as you.:D


But, are they any more true an American than the rest of the legal citizens of the United States? Since when did we start designating 'shades' of Americanism? You either are an American, or you are not. There is not true, truer, and trueist...............is there?

IMHO no there aren't different levels, you either are or aren't just as you stated.

[refer guy]

Not trying to put words in Refer Guys mouth, but I believe what he is saying is that the men and women serving in the Military are true Americans because they are willing to lay their life down to ensure that those living here can continue to have their freedom.

No matter what anyone does here, the level of sacrifice is not the same. Manufacturing equipment/supplies, or flying a Flag don't match the willingness to die for your country.

This is what i meant, it doesnt take much brain power to figure it out.

[refer guy]

This I can understand much better than some ooh-rah "civilians are leeches" garbage.

Our military men and women do not WANT to die for our USA, but yes, they have consciously made a decision to do so if need be..........so the rest of us can go on living a life of freedom.

With that said, how can a person not place ANYONE who has ever served in our Armed Forces a peg or two above our normal citizens? I honestly don't think it's possible.

Now, are these wonderful men and women more dedicated to our country than anyone else living here? Are they patriotic to the core? Are they willing to do things most of us can't bring ourselves to think about?

The answer is yes to all of the above.

But, are they any more true an American than the rest of the legal citizens of the United States? Since when did we start designating 'shades' of Americanism? You either are an American, or you are not. There is not true, truer, and trueist...............is there?

Oh man, do you need me to explain it to you with stick men, looks like your the one who i struck a nerve at, let me guess, it pisses you off because you havent done shiat for your country.

[hvactech13]

This is what i meant, it doesnt take much brain power to figure it out.

Well I guess I fit the bill for not having much brain power then.

[refer guy]

Well I guess I fit the bill for not having much brain power then.

i think you got it wrong, i was not trying to offend you, im saying these other techs are not getting it.

[hvactech13]

i think you got it wrong, i was not trying to offend you, im saying these other techs are not getting it.

No offense taken. I forget sometimes that sarcasm doesn't work on computers!!:D

[refer guy]

This I can understand much better than some ooh-rah "civilians are leeches" garbage.

who the hell said this, now your putting words in my mouth.

[markettech]

Oh man, do you need me to explain it to you with stick men, looks like your the one who i struck a nerve at, let me guess, it pisses you off because you havent done shiat for your country.


Nope - while I'm sure you would sleep well tonight knowing you got under someones skin, it ain't gonna happen with me.;)

The rest of my response was a touch out of line, sorry.

[refer guy]

Nope - while I'm sure you would sleep well tonight knowing you got under someones skin, it ain't gonna happen with me.;)



What can you possibly be talking about???:confused::confused::confused: Did you not write in a earlier post that you thought you understood what i was talking about and today your writing that you dont understand, make up you dag on mind. I know i got under your skin too because you are not making sense, and it seems like your typing to fast and not paying attention to the proper arrangement of words, in example "didnt momma ever learn you how to be a gentleman?"

[troyorr]

A military member still does it for a paycheck. Let Congress stop the pay for a month or two and see how many military members would still do it solely for the Glory of America. You were a paid mercenary when you served, plain and simple. You only have your distorted experience to draw from. Your thinking is the kind that continually drives a wedge between different segments of our society.

[glennac]

A military member still does it for a paycheck. Let Congress stop the pay for a month or two and see how many military members would still do it solely for the Glory of America. You were a paid mercenary when you served, plain and simple. You only have your distorted experience to draw from. Your thinking is the kind that continually drives a wedge between different segments of our society.

Spoken like a true anti American and commie lover. The military gets very little pay and are asked to be on call 24/7 to defend our country. I wish you could have gone to Nam and told us that. You wouldn't have lasted long enough to finish your speech.

[mrs reb77]

Thank you to all military members (past and present) for your service, keeping our country free and our citizens safe.
That said, I don't feel any less "true American" just because I haven't served BUT, this being the United States of America and still free because of those in service, I have the right not only to my opinion but to disagree with someone else's opinion.
I know people that are serving for love of country, people that are serving to better their position in life and people that are serving because, at the time, it was the best job offer they had. I also know some people serving because of all of these reasons! I'm well acquainted with service members of many differing ranks and social positions (from my husband, brother in law and sister in law's service in the U.S. Air Force) and not a single one of them are in the service because they want to prove they are Americans.

[glennac]

Thank you to all military members (past and present) for your service, keeping our country free and our citizens safe.
That said, I don't feel any less "true American" just because I haven't served BUT, this being the United States of America and still free because of those in service, I have the right not only to my opinion but to disagree with someone else's opinion.
I know people that are serving for love of country, people that are serving to better their position in life and people that are serving because, at the time, it was the best job offer they had. I also know some people serving because of all of these reasons! I'm well acquainted with service members of many differing ranks and social positions (from my husband, brother in law and sister in law's service in the U.S. Air Force) and not a single one of them are in the service because they want to prove they are Americans.

Your right Mrs Reb, speaking not just for myself but nearly all those who volunteered and good many of those who were drafted during the war in Nam we felt that we were serving our country and proud to do so and wanted to win the war. I was a Sgt and got about $350 a month with my combat pay and no taxes. I got $150 in Korea at the same position. We were hardly what you would call mercenaries and we were glad to do our part even though back at home those of our own age group were calling us baby killers and mercenaries. That made me bitter for about 10 years after coming home. I feel it is the same today in our military and they in my opinion deserve our thanks and gratitude. That is not taking away at all those who have not served or cannot. And that's all I am going to say about it.

[troyorr]

Why would you inferr I am anti-American and a commie? Someone made an observation in another post that the longer a subject goes on, the more and more likely a Hitler or Commie comment will come out. Thank you glennac for making that inaccurate assesment of me. What got you over your bitterness of Vietnam after only 10 years? You should pass your secret on to other in-country veterans that are still bothered by their time and experiences in Vietnam. Your comments aren't worth one baht to me. Know your facts before spouting inaccurate comments.

[glennac]

Why would you inferr I am anti-American and a commie? Someone made an observation in another post that the longer a subject goes on, the more and more likely a Hitler or Commie comment will come out. Thank you glennac for making that inaccurate assessment of me. What got you over your bitterness of Vietnam after only 10 years? You should pass your secret on to other in-country veterans that are still bothered by their time and experiences in Vietnam. Your comments aren't worth one baht to me. Know your facts before spouting inaccurate comments.

Where did you come from? You are the one who called American service men past and present mercenaries. "You were a paid mercenary when you served, plain and simple".. "A military member still does it for a paycheck", You should be ashamed of the slime which you have smeared on American service men and women. Time has healed my wounds over what we went through as it has the majority combat Nam vets of whom I know but not all. I think 10 years is a long time but I am not a permanent basket case and I can handle folks like you who trash us with out wanting to take it to the next level.

Now I realize with your anti military anti American point of view, my views have little influence on you but there is nothing in my statements which are inaccurate. I would not say that I feel good over what happened but I don't brood or get mad over it anymore. My buddies who served at that time for the most part feel the same way. You owe every service man and woman an apology for what you said. I think you need some help. I seriously believe that you have some severe mental problems to be saying what you are saying.

[k-fridge]

Glenn, Troyorr....cool it please. This is a caution.

Rule #1
1) Flame wars will not be allowed. Keep your discussions civil and watch the name calling. If you feel yourself getting mad, back away from the computer until you cool off. We encourage debate and discussion, but it must be kept within reasonable standards

ARPC

[troyorr]

k fridge, no problem. Point well taken.

[k-fridge]

k fridge, no problem. Point well taken.
Thanks bud. :)

[glennac]

Understood K, I will keep my discourse civil. I do want to state for the record that my bitterness as was most of my fellow Nam vets was over our reception when we came home and not over our experiences or time spent in Nam. I was not nor have I ever been upset over anything that happened in Nam. I couldn't handle to well the total rejection of our efforts by the commie loving protesters at the time and most of them were our own age group and especially a good percentage of the girls felt that way and were hippies which I totally rejected as they me. It seemed like most of the good girls got married and all the single ones were hippie protesters especially if you went to college on the GI bill which I did. But that was long ago and like I said time has healed the wounds but I will never forget it though and that's why we should give the current troops all the support we can for their efforts.

[markettech]

Understood K, I will keep my discourse civil. I do want to state for the record that my bitterness as was most of my fellow Nam vets was over our reception when we came home and not over our experiences or time spent in Nam. I was not nor have I ever been upset over anything that happened in Nam. I couldn't handle to well the total rejection of our efforts by the commie loving protesters at the time and most of them were our own age group and especially a good percentage of the girls felt that way and were hippies which I totally rejected as they me. It seemed like most of the good girls got married and all the single ones were hippie protesters especially if you went to college on the GI bill which I did. But that was long ago and like I said time has healed the wounds but I will never forget it though and that's why we should give the current troops all the support we can for their efforts.

Glenn - While the reception you came home to must have been a terrible slap in the face to you guys........and even though you say the old wounds have healed, I for one, would like to let you know how much your service is appreciated.

I was born in 1970...........Vietnam was a done deal in what, '73? I was a little young to welcome home the troops;) If Mom wouldda taken me, I'm quite sure I would have been standing out there clapping and cheering just as loud as I could as you got off that plane.

There are many of us generation X'ers who hold our Vietnam Vets in the highest regard.........I suppose you just don't hear about it a ton because it's been so long since the fight ended. Time has a way of making us forget just how tragic the conflict was.

I listen to the stories my Uncle Bill tells me (he seems to be one of the few who doesn't have a problem talking about his experiences) and realize that no human should have to do the things/see the things you guys were subjected to over there. Sometimes it's hard to believe his stories...........I believe every one of them mind you.........but it's almost too intense to fathom.

Look, you guys didn't start the conflict over there and it wasn't like you had a choice as to whether or not you wanted to go. It blows my mind as to how any American can blame you, the field soldier, for doing what you were "made" to do.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I thought it needed saying.

I'm proud of ya man;)

[bootlen]

You're a good man, MT.

[glennac]

You're a good man, MT.

Ditto on that. I should have added also and I'm sure you will agree Bootlen that on top of all that there were some who were indeed tramatized by what had happened to them while over there and they suffered a double wammy when they did come home. Thanks again for your post MT.

[Maineiac]

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt 1907. 100 Years and still the truth. .. God bless America