One Pipe Steam System

[jloomy]

Forgive me for any confusion. I'm having trouble formulating a comprehensive, clear question. This Steam Boiler is more than 25 years old.
It is a Peerless 120K Boiler model G-560-w-s.
The water level in the sight glass keeps rising. I find myself draining water
rather than filling it. To my knowledge, water is fed to the system manually.
When the system is off, the water level is above the marker. I use the spigot valve at the base of the furnace to lower the water level to about 2/3 full. The next day or so, the cold water level increases and I have to release more water. When the furnace is running, the water level goes above the marker and bounces near the top of the site glass. A couple of events took place that may be relevant. First, I drained alot of water 2 weeks ago and re-filled the boiler. Shortly thereafter the system flooded with water spilled on the floors upstairs. One radiator stopped working so I removed it, blew air down, removed the dry return pipes and cleared the sediment. Second, out of the 9 radiators in the system, there are about 3 turned completely off.
In addition, there is a big gray thing on the side of the furnace with a big yellow lever and an open pipe coming down, I would assume that this is for "blowing down". This lever does nothing, I have to use the spigot on the very bottom of the furnace to release water. Is this system screwed up?
If I fill the site glass 2/3 of the way up, why does it keep increasing it's level when cold? Is it bad that the operating water level raises all the way to the top of the site glass? Thanks, Jerome

[rimek]

Hi Jerome, you have several issues showing here, you would definitely save money(and property) by having a good steam tech look at your boiler. It sounds like you haven't had a good cleaning(w/skim and flush) and checkup for a while so surging could call the feeder prematurely, and you're holding back condensate, along with a couple of other things that you have described. All these factors can show the symptoms you describe, so try to find a good steam guy, this is definitely not something for the band-aid approach, nor should it be DIY, unless you sre a steam tech. Is there an installer's sticker on it- try them. A good tech can show you how to maintain the boiler and clear up it's operating sequence for you. A 25 yr old steam boiler isn't that old.

[small change]

In addition, there is a big gray thing on the side of the furnace with a big yellow lever and an open pipe coming down, I would assume that this is for "blowing down". This lever does nothing, I have to use the spigot on the very bottom of the furnace to release water. Is this system screwed up?<<<<<
You really need a tech to look at this and soon

The thing with the yellow handle could be the low water cutoff and it needs attention by a tech, especially if there is no water being released from it. This could be an essential boiler safety device and if it isn't working you could end up with a new boiler because of it

Also sounds like you are getting water bypassing the shutoff somehow
Really take the advice and get this looked at by a competent boiler tech

[big johnson]

You have some safety issues that I think need immediate attention. If you need a referral in your area, try: www.heatinghelp.com. There's a lot of "steam heads" there that will do a good job for you.

[Noel Murdough]

Look at page 12. http://www.bellgossett.com/literature/files/1427.pdf

At ten years old, the manufacturer wants the control replaced.

They require REGULAR maintenance, and dissassembly for cleaning annually.

They HAVE to cover their butts this way, because this control is frequently neglected, and is the control that keeps the boiler from exploding if there is a water level problem.

If they didn't publish these rules, they would be sued out of business by people that don't follow these instructions, and their boiler explodes, or just cracks open.

You NEED service, beyond what the internet can do for you.

Nothing makes a boiler rep sadder than telling a customer that there is nothing that can be done for them, after the boiler splits open in the middle of the winter.

Noel

[jloomy]

I called the "steam tech" and left a message.
I also pushed a hanger up inside the grey rooster ( low water cutoff, thanks for the nomenclature ) and sludge and water came pouring out. It "blows down" now. I shall monitor the furnace daily and notice any bizarre occurances until the guy calls me back.

Thanks all, for the recomendations and the pdf.
Jerome

[tinknocker service tech]

I called the "steam tech" and left a message.
I also pushed a hanger up inside the grey rooster ( low water cutoff, thanks for the nomenclature ) and sludge and water came pouring out. It "blows down" now. I shall monitor the furnace daily and notice any bizarre occurances until the guy calls me back.

Thanks all, for the recomendations and the pdf.
Jerome

just because it blows down doesnt mean it is working correctly
when you blow it down does the boiler shut off. If not then it needs to be replaced. Does it feed or turn on the feeder also

gladyou listened to Noel and made the call before you need a new unit

[oil lp man]

If its got a tankless coil inside the boiler for domestic hot water, its probably got a pinhole leak. I find this more frequently than a malfunctioning manual valve or autofeeder.

[Freezeking2000]

If its got a tankless coil inside the boiler for domestic hot water, its probably got a pinhole leak. I find this more frequently than a malfunctioning manual valve or autofeeder.


I bet you have a tankless for domestic as well, I was just going to reply and I see a steam guy is here...........I am no steamer.

[jloomy]

Allright, the steam guys didn't call back. I'll find a new one today.
I installed another ball valve because some guy told me that the water was filling up in the tank because the first valve was leaky. I took the loop off between the low water cutoff and the pressuretrol and cleared it out. Sediment was resting at the top of the loop but I wouldn't say it was clogged.
The pseudo tech told me that the pressure in the system should be around 4psi. This is not the case. When the boiler is off, the gauge is at 10 to the left of the 0 and when it's operating it stays at 13psi until the thermostat is satisfied and then shuts off. The cut in is set around 1 and the cut out is set to 5 and the pressuretrol plate above the loop when manually lifted shuts the furnace off. The confusing part is, the pressuretrol does not seem to control the furnace operation, the cycling is driven by the thermostat and the pressure stops at 13psi no matter how long the water is boiling. The woman who lives here thinks I'm crazy because I'm constantly going down cellar when there is absolutely no problems whatsoever in the living areas. No banging no hissing no cold radiators.

[beenthere]

If the pressure gauge says its going to 13PSI, I'd replace the gauge first.
Then if its really going to 13psi.
Replace the pressutrol.

Resi, should not need more then 2 psi.

[oil lp man]

If the pressure gauge says its going to 13PSI, I'd replace the gauge first.
Then if its really going to 13psi.
Replace the pressutrol.

Resi, should not need more then 2 psi.

I agree with that.
5 psi will cause a lot of surging.
The new gauge should be protected with a steam pigtail or it will fail quickly like the previous one probably did.

[hvaccolo]

holy hell, man...if that boiler is really at 13 psi, turn that thing off and get someone out asap...or at the very least make sure your insurance payments are up to date and check your family into a hotel.:D

[jloomy]

Allright, the boiler was overfilling because of the leaky ball valve. I would never have figured that. I installed the gauge and turned up the thermostat.
The furnace ran for about 15 minutes and the gauge didn't budge. Damn, I then turned off a bunch of radiators to see if I could increase the pressure. That worked, the pressuretrol went up between 2 and 3 and the furnace shut off. The gauge dropped to 1psi and the furnace came back on. I turned the screw on the presuretrol down until it was at 0.5. Now the furnace comes on at 2 and shuts off somewhere below 1psi. I didn't mention this before because I couldn't bear the shame, but the wire that put the pressuretrol in series with the furnace was broke. That means, this furnace has been running for 2 months without that thing. Building on this, when I was trying to get the system to activate the gauge, it was a bit scary because the boiler sounded fierce. I don't recall over the last 2 months hearing the water boil so rapidly nor did I ever feel such a sense of hostility from it...maybe physcological. Nevertheless, I ask this question with genuine philosophical/mechanical interest. Given a 128k boiler with 9 radiators with about 6 fins each, is it possible that the system would even build enough pressure to activate the pressuretrol? I mean, just free running, could it be so well balanced that the house heats up quicker than the pressure can build? Could one say that the boiler is grossly oversized for radiators of this size? These questions are not as critical as the questions you already answered. And I need to close with, thank you very much, even the naysayers in the begining, they always encourage / scare me enough to take tasks like this seriously. And I did call a steam tech, but this is December in Wilkes-Barre, PA and there's probably around 20 thousand boilers in this city. Thanks again. Jerome

[tinknocker service tech]

as long as your sream pipes are insulated completely and the vents on the rads are working properly and closing once the steam hits them then yes the pressure can build in the system as each vent closes. once the vents all close the pressure builds till the rads cool and the steam condenses and causes the vents to open and fill the rad with steam again. the pressure control is to make sure the pressure doesnt climb high enough to cause any damage to any part of the system.

imo 2 to 4 lbs is more then enough pressure for any resi system
i prefer no more then 2lb

make sure you get that lwco repared or replace asap

[Noel Murdough]

Have you measured your radiation, yet?

First things first.

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=160

Noel

[beenthere]

If the wire to the pressuretrol was broke. Then you also have a miswired control system.
A broken pressuretrol wire should have caused the boiler not to run.

Check the size of your rads to the boiler as Noel said.
Yes it can take a while for the system to build pressure. Open those other rads back up.