Inducer leak?

[witom]

Howdy.

I am an owner/builder, not HVAC professional, but I would appreciate help before I spend $$ to have it fixed (or maybe not).

About a week ago we had a furnace finally fired up. Keep in mind that the guy that did it, has his license only for about 1 year now. Bad thing is that I had little/no choice in choosing him. I can't catch this guy to fix it and retailer requires him to inspect the problem (or finish the install - return drywall cutouts, ect). We find out more and more of bad things he did during this install but it's not the time to bash anyone, just to find a solution to my problem.

It's a brand new Ducane furnace, upright, with side return.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4735/photo010kf6.jpg

You can see where the water leaks. I believe that long black box underneath exhaust fan is inducer assembly. When furnace runs, it doesn't leak. On the shutdown, when inducer motor stops to spin, water shows up in the bottom right corner.

We checked the furnace if it's plumb and level and corrected it a bit, which kinda slowed the leak process. But it still leaks.

1. What would be the most likely problem? Bad seal? Would high-temp silicone fix it?

2. Is that yellow cap on the right side of exhaust clamp supposed to be removed?

3. Drain pipe from furnace goes to a tee (which gets drain pipe from coil) and runs to the drain. Drain exit from the coil blows warm air when furnace runs. I did remove the coil part but it didn't make a difference in water leak. To properly run both in 1 drain, do I need just an extra vent T before coil drain pipe gets to the main T?

4. Manual said to prime the drain box. I did but it didn't make a difference for a leak.

Thanks for help!

[Senior Tech]

Call the installer and tell him to finish that mess...and fix the unit under warranty...

[witom]

I called him every single day since last Saturday, left him a message every time. Never heard back from him. Obviously, he's not coming back :mad:

It's winter and I can't have the whole house heated using just fireplaces. My last resort is calling another HVAC guy but that's the extra expense I want to avoid.

BTW, diode blinks in regular hearbeat mode.

[troyorr]

Who is the retailer that requires the installer to fix the problems?

[DavidInAustin]

First of all... It is a very bad idea to try and fix this yourself. Safety being the first consideration. Air conditioners are one thing to tinker with, but furnaces are and can be very dangerious. They can and will kill you if you do the wrong thing. One problem can lead to another which the outcome can cause serious injury or death - at the least total property distruction. Here is my advise - Dont try and save a dollar at the possible cost as mentioned above. To say you dont want to incure the extra expense is in my opinion less than in consideration of the possible horrible outcome. Hire a professional to look at the total job - There is most likely more wrong than you even know this moment considering the obvious. Just think if you were the buyer of the home? I am more then sure you dont want to be like the a/c tech who wont return their (the buyers) calls to you, after more problems are discovered? Please do the right thing and learn this lesson... Dont try to save a dime when it will (in most cases cost you much more.

[cmajerus]

can you hear water swishing in the inducer motor when running, if so drain may be plugged, but being water shows on other side of the header, I would say it is a problem with the header assy. call the supply house that the ducanes come from and ask for a service advisor, tell them your installer is not resolving your issues, can they recomend a better company, may have to pay some labor to repair, but parts would be covered. Take the labor off the final payment due, or at least threaten your guy with it, should get a phone call then. You didn't make payment in full yet I would assume looking at the half finished job you got there.

[air2spare]

Whoever it was in your company that chose the LOW bidder should have to deal with it. When are people going to learn that if a bid is so low that a contractor doesn't make any money on the job then He's going to do a poor job?

[witom]

Whoever it was in your company that chose the LOW bidder should have to deal with it. When are people going to learn that if a bid is so low that a contractor doesn't make any money on the job then He's going to do a poor job?

It was me who made this choice. I really regret it but at that time I couldn't have done differently (long story).

This furnace is Ducane Fits-All 92 (http://www.ducanehvac.com/gas_cmpev.asp) and was purchased at Harvey Industries (www.sidharvey.com). I have to find the warranty information, but I believe that it covers parts only.

When You look at parts list (http://www.ducanehvac.com/res/pdfs/gas/cmpev_parts.pdf), water leaks at the bottom right corner of #67 (cold end box), which covers #62 (condensing coil). If everything was OK, water should exit through #81 (hose kit - inducer and cold box to trap).

I really hear You when You say about not touching stuff You don't know. I just kinda hoped it can be something simple like plugged hose or faulty seal. I built this house pretty much by myself (and 2 temporary helpers) and I try to approach and resolve problems if I can, before I hire someone else to do it :)

What will happen if I call another tech (I know about 2 good ones, referred by my friends)? I am looking for scenario that will cost me least. Simply because I have ~$400K loan frozen in this project :mad:

[tinmantu]

Hire someone to fix that mess up right. Then try to recoup the expenses via small claims court from the original installer. That return alone, shows his skills and doesn't deserve to even be called back in IMO.

[witom]

I got to one of the good guys but the earliest he can do it is Saturday, which means that we won't have heat for at least couple days (have to tile and grout the mechanical room and floor has to be perfectly dry there).

Am I asking for trouble by removing the inducer fan and checking how the seal is on that cold end (condenser) cover?

[rich pickering]

Don't touch it. Grab a electric heater and plug it in.
And the venting from the fan is wrong. The reducing fitting should be on the vertical pipe.

[Mstrav]

that fitting on the side of the furnace is a water trap!! shoud have stayed with the 2" then went to 3" in the vertical. Also your drain tubes apear to be still set for horizontal which is the factory setting. they need to be changed for the upflow.

matt

[witom]

Don't touch it. Grab a electric heater and plug it in.
And the venting from the fan is wrong. The reducing fitting should be on the vertical pipe.

... another place that my installer showed his mad skillz :(

[Mstrav]

also, I hope the a/c drain isnt hard piped into the furnace drain without an air gap.


This looks way to much like DIY!!!


matt

[yorkdude]

looks to me that there is no way for the condensate drain for flue to drain... I have installed these 90% fau's and you have to go through the manual tofigure out your induced motor location for however you install the furnace. upflow,horizontal etc..Looks like its going to drain inside the IDM housing....No Bueno

[witom]

Also your drain tubes apear to be still set for horizontal which is the factory setting. they need to be changed for the upflow.

matt

Maybe that's the problem then. I have looked through the manual (http://www.ducanehvac.com/res/pdfs/gas/CMPEV_Manual.pdf) but either I am misreading something or it says that it's factory upflow.

Could someone reread that for me? (could be the cause of the leak?).
And should that yellow cap on inducer fitting stay where it is?

More pics:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/669/photo024vy3.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/16/photo023nc0.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9929/photo022lk6.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5434/photo025dh7.jpg

[witom]

also, I hope the a/c drain isnt hard piped into the furnace drain without an air gap.


This looks way to much like DIY!!!


matt

It was but I got it disconnected after reading the manual :eek: Gotta buy a T and put it back together. Good eyes! :D

[witom]

looks to me that there is no way for the condensate drain for flue to drain... I have installed these 90% fau's and you have to go through the manual tofigure out your induced motor location for however you install the furnace. upflow,horizontal etc..Looks like its going to drain inside the IDM housing....No Bueno

Manual is right here: http://www.ducanehvac.com/res/pdfs/gas/CMPEV_Manual.pdf

It is draining inside the housing :(

[cmajerus]

better get someone out to inspect the secondary heat exchanger, drain looks to be hooked up proper. the inducer drain is supposed to be like that, it whips the condensate up into that rubber boot, don't know why some design the systems that way but they do.

Most of the condensate drains through the tube on the left side of the collector box.

[rimek]

Assuming all said is for real-

This guy is licensed? For what I wonder- was there a permit? Go to the Authority Having Jurisdiction(city, county, building dept) and give them an earful, then find out if he's bonded and go after that bond $$ if possible- seriously- do not touch or fix anything yourself- get it finished properly. Give the supplier an earful too, let them know about this clown, and do get in touch w/ Ducane to get a pro referral that can assure warranty. Did you pay this guy out before finishing? Use the rest of the money to get it done right. Do you have any contract?
Kinda weird- what's with all the stuff there, are you living there?
Who said you had to hire this clown?(no offense to Clowns).
There is a lot wrong with the job shown in the photos, Too much for it to be considered completed by any standards, and get all that cr*p off the top of the unit.
Who's doing the boiler for the radiant work?- Mr Budget again?

[witom]

Assuming all said is for real-

This guy is licensed? For what I wonder- was there a permit? Go to the Authority Having Jurisdiction(city, county, building dept) and give them an earful, then find out if he's bonded and go after that bond $$ if possible- seriously- do not touch or fix anything yourself- get it finished properly. Give the supplier an earful too, let them know about this clown, and do get in touch w/ Ducane to get a pro referral that can assure warranty. Did you pay this guy out before finishing? Use the rest of the money to get it done right. Do you have any contract?
Kinda weird- what's with all the stuff there, are you living there?
Who said you had to hire this clown?(no offense to Clowns).
There is a lot wrong with the job shown in the photos, Too much for it to be considered completed by any standards, and get all that cr*p off the top of the unit.
Who's doing the boiler for the radiant work?- Mr Budget again?

It's a long story but believe me, at THAT time, I couldn't go with different contractor. I really, REALLY wish I could have, especially that he's licensed for just one or 2 years now and didn't have any previous experience in HVAC :(

Now, I am not letting him back for any reason, I want to have it fixed just right. Probably there are things that cannot be fixed at low cost (ex. the way he did the ducting, boots, ect.). I just have to live with that. He used to be a friend of the family and hence, we didn't have a written contract (kick my ass, please).

He wanted to do my infloor but by the time I learned his craftsmanship, I said no way. I'd rather have my plumber do it once I order a custom designed system (had couple bids in already). Hopefully he can follow instructions :rolleyes:

After all, I don't want to cause him any problems directly (I should but I am not vindictive). On the other hand, I have nothing against Ducane or county/township inspector going after his 4 letters.

And yes, we are living here already. It's no fun yet, but we are getting there :)

I got a CO/smoke/gas (LP/Nat) detector installed in mechanical room, just in case he screwed up really bad. That red cup is doing it's job, catching all the water and directing it to the bin below.

Whether it's a poor quality of Ducane furnace (bad seal on that cold end cover) or crappy work done by my ex-HVAC guy, I will find out probably on Saturday. I will keep You informed.

And please don't think I am stupid or retarded because I hired him not knowing how good of a job he can do. I keep my business straight but at that time, I simply had to do it. Sad.