New A/C Equipment Advice Needed

[gwrace]

We are in the process of getting contractor bids to replace our existing American Standard HVAC system. Gas furnace and standard A/C condenser.

I'm currently getting bids for Carrier, Trane, American Standard, Rheem and Lennox systems. We are located in the Austin/Round Rock area of Texas where electricity is expensive and natural gas is cheaper. I could use some recommendations from the pros on this site.

1. Can you all recommend a qualified contractor in this area? I'm more concerned about the quality of the install than what brand of equipment is installed. I was burned badly by a contractor on our current AS equipment and that's why it has to be replaced after only 10 years. Completely rusted out. We had so many warranty claims on the AS unit that I'd like to avoid that with the new equipment.

2. I'm shying away from the 2 stage compressors as I don't think I'll ever see a return on investment. I was thinking a 3 ton single stage 14-16 SEER A/C unit with a two stage variable speed 80 afue rated gas furnace would be sufficient.

I'd also like to get your input on the value of the air filters and UV lights being sold. Are they really worth it and would they provide any benefit in an older home that still has fiberboard ducts.

Given this information would you have any brand recommendations. I plan to purchase at least a 10 year parts and labor warranty no matter what brand I choose. We had this for the AS unit and it more than paid for itself.

Thank you for any assistance.

[Firebird A/C]

I would suggest going with equipment that has the new R-410A refrigerant in it. They are phasing out the current R-22 refrigerant found in most equipment now. After 2010 no R-22 equipment will be made. I perfer the American Standard / Trane equipment.

[Crazy4thenucks]

I would recomend that you look at Trane, Lennox, or the York Affinity series units. York is comming out with a very nice modulating gas furnace, that will save alot of money, nice compact size, and can be paired with any affinity series condensing unit. The U/V filters work very well and are mostly 99.9% effecient, when paired with a regular filter as well. As you may know the higher the seer rating the more energy effiecient it is, however, you pay for the 16 seer units.
As far as a refrigerant choice, R-22 is fine to use, you cant purchase any units with it after 2010, however, the can still be serviced. R-410A, is a fairly new refrigerant, and long term effects have not been found yet. Though if the units are not properly installed there may be problems in the future, compressors etc, due to the fact that the POE oil used, is very admissible with refrigerant, and loves to absorb moisture. The oil will scrub the system clean, so any impurities in the pipping will all get back to your compressor, or into your TXV, causing problems.
Hope this helps.

[dcmcm5]

We are in the process of getting contractor bids to replace our existing American Standard HVAC system. Gas furnace and standard A/C condenser.

I'm more concerned about the quality of the install than what brand of equipment is installed. I was burned badly by a contractor on our current AS equipment and that's why it has to be replaced after only 10 years. Completely rusted out. We had so many warranty claims on the AS unit that I'd like to avoid that with the new equipment.


You're smart to worry about the install, because that is what will make or break your comfort. You can get great performance from any of the brands that are designed and installed correctly. There are some that provide obvious features that may be worth considering, but find the right contractor first. Hang tight and you will get someone from the Austin area on the board to respond.

[rdpstl1]

you may want to look into 23 seer equipment. you will see a good return on the investment

[gwrace]

Thanks all for the replies.

All of the units that have been bid so far have the new refrigerant. I wasn't aware of the service issues related to this new product.

To date I've received bids on the following packages:

Rheem RAPL or RAPC series condensers and Quiet 80 furnace RGPR07EBRQR
Lennox 14ACX, XC14 and XC16 with G60V gas furnace

Contractors coming in the next 2-3 days will be bidding Carrier, AS and Trane equipment.

[arc8]

I personally would offer only a 90+ condensing furnace, and not neccessarily a two-stage variable speed unless you really wanted it. There's nothing wrong installing a R22 or R410, either will work. And depending where you live, a 13 SEER is not a problem, they work very well.

But first i would perform a Heat-Load Calc. I would not and could not possibly offer any size of equipment and efficiencies without a Load-Calc!

I would strongly look at your ductwork. What good is the equipment if your ductwork is substandard.

Happy Holidays.

[m kilgore]

We have a ton of 410A units out in the field and have no extra service problems with them. A lot of companies are not installing them yet and don't work on them so take negitive posta with a grain of salt.

As stated makee sure a manual J is done and your ductwork inspected as this is critical for getting a proper installation.

As far as filtering goes look at the Lennox Pure Air. This unit will remove all 3 types of particulates. It incorperates a merve 16 media filter and uv lites. It also does not produce o zone.

[rdpstl1]

I would go with 410a just because of the phase out of r-22

[Firebird A/C]

R-410A refrigrant is not new to the market. Carrier has had R410A A/C equipment since 1995. Go with the new R-410A equipment.

[tigerdunes]

GWRACE

Unless there are installation obstacles on a 90+% AFUE condensing furnace, I think an 80% is a dinosaur and is a mistake. The only other exception is if you have reasonable electric rates and pair with a high eff heat pump and you have ruled that out due to your high electric rates. I would get the highest eff furnace available like the Carrier Infinity 96 or Trane's XV95.
You do want a furnace with var speed blower as it will help you with AC and high humidity.

IMO
Good Luck!

[gary_g]

For the a/c condenser, make sure you get the model# of the condenser and matching coil. This way you (or I) can check the ARI website and verify SEER/EER as well as btu ratings. Some systems that claim 3 tons (36,000 btu) of cooling are only 32,000 btu or so.

I would get a 12 EER system. Your cooling costs are determined by EER and not SEER, as SEER is a fudge-factor numbers game especially for variable speed air handlers. In my opinion, a 14 SEER/12 EER offers the consumer the best combination of purchase price and true operating costs.

Best to you.

[gwrace]

We had a Carrier dealer come out and give us an estimate tonight. As it turns out none of the models are efficient enough to qualify for the tax credit accept in the infinity series and that costs a small fortune.

The Rheem RAPC-JAZ with the quiet 80 furnace is rated at 15 SEER and 13.5 EER for about the same price as the other mid-efficiency 14 SEER units. It also seems to move more air volume with a CFM rating of 3900. Power, wattage and amperage ratings also seem to be lower for the compressor and fans.

Full 10 year parts and labor warranty is also reasonable and dealer offers a no lemon guarantee. If compressor fails during first year a complete new system is installed. If heat exchanger goes bad in first 10 years a complete new system is installed. They did a manual J test, checked the ducting and have recommended several changes to the installation of our old unit that we know we needed.

Even with our old furnace our gas bill rarely moved over the $40 mark per month during the wintertime. During the rest of the year we run about $12-14 per month. It does not get that cold here in South Texas and when it does it only lasts a couple of days. I checked into a higher efficiency furnace and with a $1500 price difference I'll be dead before I see any return on investment.

I would like to get your feedback on air filters. I've been reading thru the threads and it sounds like the Honeywell filter is a better way to go than the HC16 that CR recommended. The replacement filters are to expensive.

Can anyone tell me what model I would need for the Rheem system stated above? I wasn't sure about the best location. In furnace or return air grille.

[gary_g]

you may want to look into 23 seer equipment. you will see a good return on the investment

Have you seen the price tag of the 23 SEER equipment?

How do you figure that the homeowner would see a good ROI with this equipment over a 14 SEER that costs less than half of the 23 SEER?

[gwrace]

For us the 14-15 SEER equipment seems to make the most sense and provide some level of ROI.

23 SEER is way overkill for our older home in south texas.

The contractor would like to sell me a Lennox HC16 Air Filter. Is there an alternative like Honeywell HEPA that has reasonably priced replacement filters that won't kill airflow and my new equipment.

Secondly what if anything do I need to request during the install of my new equipment to allow for a 4-5" IAQ filter in the return or furnace?

Thanks!

[gwrace]

We had our AC/Furnace installed yesterday. We decided to go with a Rheem

RAPC-036RAZ and Quiet 80 2 stage furnace.

We also added in the Lennox HC-16 and UV light IAQ system.

System qualified for Federal Tax Credit with 15 SEER and 13.5 EER

The system is so quiet you have to really listen to hear it running.

I'm still trying to get used to the Touch Screen ComfortStat CDT-900 thermostat. I love a lot of the automation built into these new products.

Best of all the contactor sends out an independant inspector a week after the install to make sure the system is to code and performing correctly.

Since we are outside any city jurisdictions in a rural area this was a nice touch.

Also bought the 10 years parts and labor warranty so I plan to not worry about if for awhile...:)

[rdpstl1]

enjoy the new equipment:)