Please Help-R22 was added to my 410A unit

[buckeye97]

My servicing dealer added R22 to my Puron 410A system 24 months ago. Is that against Federal law? Since that time I have incurred over $1000 in expenses, I am looking at needing to replace the units coil for the second time, and I am afraid of what long term damage may have occured to my compressor. What steps need to be taken to remedy the problem? Do you see any reason the servicing dealer wouldn't be completely liable? I have the work order stating that the unit tested low for R22 and that R22 was added. The unit is less than 5 years old.

[Mr Bill]

It "is" against federal law to "intentionally" mix freons but I am sure there will be many cases like yours with the switch to 410A "accidentally" adding of R-22 in a 410A system. Your tech "could" have put in the right freon and just wrote it down wrong on your service invoice, you would probably have to take a freon sample from your unit to a lab to be sure before I feel any Judge would offer you any award, unless the service company admits it.

[buckeye97]

I don't suspect they intentionally mixed the refrigerants. It seems to be more of a case of improper training or a pure mistake. My pressure fluctuates while the system is running and as I mentioned my out of pocket expenses are significant. I am more interested in the dealer making the situation right. I don't feel the dealers mistake should be my financial burden. I don't want to have to take it to that point.

What should I expect the dealer to do to help me?

[KB Cool]

Have the company come out recover the refrigerant, vacumm the system and the charge w/ new virgin r410a. Also have them replace the dryer while they are at it.

[cmajerus]

I would expect them to fix it right, if the refrigerant was mixed.

[hvac_superman]

My servicing dealer added R22 to my Puron 410A system 24 months ago. Is that against Federal law? Since that time I have incurred over $1000 in expenses, I am looking at needing to replace the units coil for the second time, and I am afraid of what long term damage may have occured to my compressor. What steps need to be taken to remedy the problem? Do you see any reason the servicing dealer wouldn't be completely liable? I have the work order stating that the unit tested low for R22 and that R22 was added. The unit is less than 5 years old.

You waited 24 months and now you want to do something about it? Why didn't you get on top of this from the get go? If you had the coil replaced since that initial repair and you knew it had 22 mixed in why didnt you have virgin 410a put back in? Did they reuse the same refrigerant at the coil change? Either I am missing something or there were a great deal of mistakes made on theirs as well as your behalf.

[will 2]

Just curious.....


pressure fluctuates while the system is runningWhere and how are you reading 'these' pressures ?


and as I mentioned my out of pocket expenses are significant.Yes, you did mention that. But I failed to understand how exactly these 'expenses' occurred.

[buckeye97]

I am a complete novice in this area. Before this week I had zero knowlege of how my system worked or even what it ran on. I have been paying this company to repair my system on a regular basis and the regularity of the problems I was having seemed unreasonable based on the age of the system. It wasn't until this week that I got fed up and I had a new service company come out to get me running again, that I examined my previous invoices and posed the question to the technician that was doing the work, "Why would the original service co. use 410A one time and R22 the others?" At that point the tech relayed to me that I may have a much bigger problem. Hence the information and questions I am posing know.

Again I just want the dealer to do what is right to get my problem fixed once and for all. I don't feel their mistake should be my liability.

[elkhvac]

Buckeye-Can you give us a list of the repairs that have been made on your system?

[buckeye97]

The most recent tech informed me that the head pressure was going up and down @ 5 lbs on his guages. The system was also 2lbs low on Puron.

24 months ago the system frosted over and was not working properly. The service company that did the install and all of the subsequent service work up until this week, conducted a leak test that did not find any certainty on where the leak originated and topped the system off with R22. (Until this week I was unfamilair with the differences in the system or what should be used- Complete novice)

3 months later -Another system failure and another service call.

3 more months- The frost over was occurring again and the company again conducted multiple leak tests and replaced the coil under warranty. I paid for the labor. $900 dollars total in 6 months at this point.

14 months later The unit has worked OK up until this point until it again frosted over last week. I called in a new service company to see what was going on. They found the unit 2 lbs low and that is when I uncovered the R22issue from the old invoices. The new servicing dealer informed me that R22 and 410 A were not compatable. Another nearly $200 service call.

[buckeye97]

The most recent servicing dealer also told me that it appeared the other dealer did not replace the line dryer whan the coil was replaced 14 months ago.

[elkhvac]

3 months later -Another system failure and another service call.

.

What was that repair?

[hvac hero]

I would think that if he actually did add R22 to your 410 system that it wouldnt have worked right for 3 months & then broke down. As someone else mentioned, I'd evacuate all the freon, run nitrogen through it & pull a heckuva good vacuum on it. I'd also add suction & liquid line driers & fill'er up. I bet you have a leak somewhere in that sytem too.

[buckeye97]

The ignitor also went out that winter after the unit started frosting over that fall. The technician thought that all of the extra moisture and water could have caused it?

[t1tech]

a simmilar problem occured with a trane 410 system, which seemed it be leaking freon,and i checked for a leak and could not find one, trane had me recover 410 to fill with nitrogen and a small amount of 22, because 22 is easer to detect with electronic detectors that are on the market. still could not find a leak any where so i could let out charge per deminimus, and refill system with recovered 410. cranked the ac back up only to find pressures had really gone wild. 45 suction and 500 plus head before by-passing internial. trane said txv was the problem, 10 hrs after the problem begain i was wet from sweeting and glad the ordeal was over. maybe this will help

[elkhvac]

... Do you see any reason the servicing dealer wouldn't be completely liable?


It does not sound like any of the problems are related to the mixture of ref. The coil will not leak just because it had R-22 in it. All the coils we deal with can be used for ether 22 or 410a only the metering device gets changed

[chucko615]

Let me get this straight. Your system is 5 years old right? 2 years ago you started having problems with the A/C freezing up, they come out work on it. It works good for better than a year and then it has problems again? Maybe the first tech made a typo on the work order and wrote R-22 when he should have wrote R410.

BTW the ignitor going out after almost 4 years isn't uncommon. They're not made to last forever. The new tech saying anything about it is wrong, unless he saw a waterline going to the ignitor.

[kellyr24]

I am a complete novice in this area. Before this week I had zero knowlege of how my system worked or even what it ran on. I have been paying this company to repair my system on a regular basis and the regularity of the problems I was having seemed unreasonable based on the age of the system. It wasn't until this week that I got fed up and I had a new service company come out to get me running again, that I examined my previous invoices and posed the question to the technician that was doing the work, "Why would the original service co. use 410A one time and R22 the others?" At that point the tech relayed to me that I may have a much bigger problem. Hence the information and questions I am posing know.

Again I just want the dealer to do what is right to get my problem fixed once and for all. I don't feel their mistake should be my liability.
All the original installation company has to do is make it right. The fact of mixing refrigerants should compel the G.M. or Owner to make it right. The cost of repairing your system and making you happy is very small compared to an unhappy customer and a system failure. Does this company want good referrals or what? If you discuss your situation with the companys brass you should be able to get results. Attitude is everything, remember you are dealing with a very technical trade and there is a very small area for honest mistakes. If you get this company to change your refrigerant, driers, and do a leak test, your situation should be resolved and you should be enjoying comfort from your system! Don't worry yourself with all of the " what if's" or "what could happen in the future", that is our job. Tell that company to please just "Git'r Done!!!":D

[pop]

It appears that as in many cases that the technician didn't really repair the unit but added charge to make it run without actually finding the leak and make an actual repair, as a customer you get your pocket lightened and pay half A** work.
As for the 5 lb change in pressure that is probably due to a vacuum that was measured by a chronometer instead of a micron gauge and left noncondensables in the system.

In reference to the R-22 410A mix up if it is a Copeland compressor it is easy to check with a simple program to see if it is out of the operational envelope. If a problem just recover, change dryer, pull 500 Micron Vacuum and charge with virgin Refrigerant.

[bja105]

He probably wrote R-22 out of habit. I did that once, and had a lot of explaining to do.
Those ignitors usually last 5-10 years. 4 years is not uncommon. Especially if the filter is dirty, which could also cause an AC freeze up.

I don't think the original contractor is that bad. They could be better at finding leaks, though. Sounds like the new contractor wants to look good by trashing the competition.

[wormy]

I agree with the typo theory.
The running pressures are so dramatically different between R22 and R410a,
its almost impossible for one to confuse the two refrigerants.

I have a prob at my office were the office staff transfers my ticket info
onto the final bill.
I write.... "Found/Charged system low of refrigerant....."
and they write "Added R22" :(

There was a thread about Ants Nest Corrosion (Formicary Corrosion)
See if you can do a search on it.

[bmathews]

If he mixed refrigerants 2 years ago, it wouldn't still be running. You would have replaced the compressor along the way. You do have a leak that needs to be found. Wait until summer season is over, have them recover all the refrigerant and isolate lineset, condenser coil and evaporator coil and fill with nitrogen and let sit for a few days or weeks until they can determine where the leak is.