ARP Committee:

[Admin]

Members of HVAC-TALK:

Seems we are at an impasse here on what to do about the forum ARP, the moderators, membership and myself.

An idea was brought to my attention that I think will work.

A membership elected ARP committee composed of ARP members to monitor the ARP forum and make decisions based on the site rules and what should be allowed. This forum should consist of no less than 5 regular ARP posters with one of them being the chair. The chair would be responsible to convey their decisions to the Admin to carry out sanctions.

Thus… no more moderation, just action that is decided on by the committee that will also be responsible for handing out warnings. If their warnings are not heeded then the Admin will carry out the reaction to that violation.

These 5, elected by your peers, will have a gmail email account set up by me that they can converse on back and forth. If they agree that a warning is to be issued, again, by following the posted rules, then the chair of the committee will post on the thread warning the member. If this warning is not followed, the chair will notify me for action as well as the decided upon action to be taken by me by the entire committee.

The committee will supply me with rule changes that they would like to change for my approval if they feel it is warranted.

Once this committee is set up, the moderators will not moderate this forum, unless a blatant rules violation such as porn or spamming is posted. It will be up to your elected committee to monitor this forum.

I was going to make this a poll, but I do not want my influence to contribute, I want the membership to speak for themselves.

Post to this thread your vote. Only 5 votes per member to serve on the committee, or all your votes will be deleted. I will close down voting at 10am this Sunday.

The most votes will be the chairperson. The next four members with the most votes will be on the committee.

There are no prerequisites for nomination; anyone can be on the committee, if they are a member in good standing. The committee will decide if they want to have a new user group name, changed to what, or if not.

I will contact the elected members next Sunday to verify that they want to do it. If someone declines, the next person in line will be asked.

Because of this special consideration, I have “pardoned” James3528 and cracker so that they can vote or be voted for.

Let the voting begin……………..

[chillbilly]

I vote for me, 1-chillbilly :)
2-james
3-gahvactech
4-mrsreb77
5-scrogdog

[sline-dawg]

Scrog.....Robo.....Carnak......Collin.....James... ..

There's my 5.....:o

[chillbilly]

Scrog.....Robo.....Carnak......Collin.....James... ..

There's my 5.....:o

1 vote per member.
Does that mean 1 set of 5 or just one vote? :p

[mrs reb77]

Sline, I think you only get one vote not 5. If that's wrong, please correct me admin.

I vote for Chilly as well

After clarification, in that case, I vote for

Chilly, James, ga-hvac-tech, bootlen and robo (in that order if it matters?)

[Admin]

Sorry,

Rules clarification. 5 positions, so you can vote for up to 5 members if you want to.

So you members that only voted for one, you have 4 more votes allowed.

[mrs reb77]

Forgot to mention, I think this is a fine idea. Cheers!

[sline-dawg]

You know I can't read...... And what's with all these questions.....:rolleyes:



Probably like any other election.....1 vote....:(


WOW..... I can comprehend though.......

[Admin]

You know I can't read...... And what's with all these questions.....:rolleyes:



Probably like any other election.....1 vote....:(


WOW..... I can comprehend though.......


See my post above yours sline, sorry you were right, 5 positions, so 5 votes.
Rules are being changed in the my main post.

[Twilly]

Chillbilly, Robo, ga-hvac-tech, k-fridge, acefurnacefixer,

[mrs reb77]

Chillbilly, Robo, ga-hvac-tech, k-fridge, acefurnacefixer,

Twilli you behave! You're on the membership committee now and you know one of those fellas ain't a member!

[Mstrav]

will there be any "campaigning" or "campaign contributions"? My votes are for sale to the highest bidder (that is a republican and has the same views as me)


matt
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v

Chillbilly, Robo, ga-hvac-tech, james, markettech,

[mrs reb77]

why ya'll wasting a vote?

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=133075&highlight=acefurnacefixer

Hmm Mstrav's vote changed after I posted....he must have seen the light....good conservative!

[glennac]

chillbilly, myself, James 3528, ga-hvac-tech & retired btc

[markettech]

Andy Schoen

Chill

Twill

James

Glennac8

[The Penguin]

SPOTTS :D

Collin - although I don't know why he would want to.

James 3528 of course

Diceman - he needs the punishment and he has to balance James out.

Robo tque well because he's all hot air and stuff


Not me :D

[Carnak]

you need some balance

Robo
geer
boots
scrog
royc

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well, I have an apology to make: I started fussing about moderating at ARP to 'jab' TPTB in the ribs because I was irritated with their decisions. I was behaving in a childish way. I realize this next comment could rub a raw spot, but in the tradition of the ideals of the now banned KA group, I admit I was behaving like an A$$. I apologize for this behavior, and humbly ask your forgiveness.

My thanks to Admin, the mods, and Editor for stepping forward and taking what could be a bold (and questionably insane) step in allowing a bunch of guys that break all the rules to self moderate. Gutsy move guys, my hat is off to you! If I am elected one of the board, I will do all I can to keep the guys in this place from p**ing in their own sandbox.

I do not think it is in proper character to vote for oneself (other than in jest), so I will post 6 votes below--with a comment about my opinion of what they bring to the table, understanding that #6 is in jest and not posted as a valid vote:

Chilly = Leadership
James = blunt, keeps folks focused
Ms Reb = need a lady's influence to balance the testosterone here
Boots = a little quieter, but brings balance to the group
Andy Shoen = intellectual balance and wisdom

And me, GA-tech = peacemaker (some of the time) but vote # 6 does not count as a valid vote.

I have not kept a running tally of the votes, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.

An excellent crew (whomever is elected) is about to be given the reins to a difficult bunch of strong willed and independent natured guys/gals (do I dare call them rebels). This will not be an easy project, but it will IMO be a worthy endeavor (as it was called earlier) for all of us. This is a team effort guys/gals, lets not let the team down. My support to this leadership crowd, regardless of whether I am part of it or not, is given ahead of time. How about lets all commit to making this experiment work well and make TPTB happy and proud they took a chance and believed in us. It would do well for all parties.

It is late, and I have a 'day of it' tomorrow. I may not get to keep up as much, have some 'real work' on the docket...

Again, my thanks and respect to TPTB for taking this gutsy step.

Now guys and gals: We have been given control of our sandbox. Lets NOT mess it up, agreed?

[k-fridge]

OK, I've thought long and hard about this. I'm Christian and conservative, but we can't go and put a right wing committee on here because over time that would run off the lefties and then we'd have no "other side" to spawn good debate. This is a discussion board, not the government, so we need opposing ideas to keep it interesting.

As bad as it pains me, I feel it only right to nominate a mixed group to provide some diversity in representation. I choose these particular individuals because I believe that they can be fair and objective in spite of their strongly held views. Therefore I nominate:

Chillbilly
Markettech
Oloenekker
Collin
Bootlin

[markettech]

My thanks to Admin, the mods, and Editor for stepping forward and taking what could be a bold (and questionably insane) step in allowing a bunch of guys that break all the rules to self moderate. Gutsy move guys, my hat is off to you! If I am elected one of the board, I will do all I can to keep the guys in this place from p**ing in their own sandbox.


An excellent crew (whomever is elected) is about to be given the reins to a difficult bunch of strong willed and independent natured guys/gals (do I dare call them rebels). This will not be an easy project, but it will IMO be a worthy endeavor (as it was called earlier) for all of us. This is a team effort guys/gals, lets not let the team down. My support to this leadership crowd, regardless of whether I am part of it or not, is given ahead of time. How about lets all commit to making this experiment work well and make TPTB happy and proud they took a chance and believed in us. It would do well for all parties.

Isn't campaigning a form of advertising??.............................:D

[ga-hvac-tech]

Isn't campaigning a form of advertising??.............................:D

You are welcome to see it that way, however: my post was not written with that intent. Rather to express my view of the opportunity we have been given; and to encourage folks to take this 'self government' seriously and make it work (because I am sure we all know we will loose the ARP we know if we screw up again). But this is ARP, lets discuss it (tomorrow).

[chadcar]

oloenekker, for his benign liberalism,:cool:
Diceman, for his expertise,:p
Chillbilly, for his hilarrity,:D
ga-hvac, for his strong views,;)
rogerk, because he seems like a pretty decent dude.:cool:

[chadcar]

I think the ARP has a lot of talent, and presents a lot of very different views. There are definatly some heated arguments, but the people that post there are looking for just that.
A fight.


I think it should be left alone, kinda like it has been, with an even bigger warning about the place you are about to enter.


Give all of us tired and sore and grouchy techs a place to vent.:)

[RoBoTeq]

you need some balance

Robo
geer
boots
scrog
royc

That certainly is a good balance.

[acmanko]

I vote
1.bootlen
2.acmanko
3.lhatton
4.chillbilly
5.glenn8ac

[MadeinUSA]

OK, I've thought long and hard about this. I'm Christian and conservative, but we can't go and put a right wing committee on here because over time that would run off the lefties and then we'd have no "other side" to spawn good debate. This is a discussion board, not the government, so we need opposing ideas to keep it interesting.

As bad as it pains me, I feel it only right to nominate a mixed group to provide some diversity in representation. I choose these particular individuals because I believe that they can be fair and objective in spite of their strongly held views. You are wrong. George Sorroes has financed the lefts media machine to overwhelm the right being we are not as organized and this would be as great a place to contribute to the conservative movement and press forward here to show the USA, the majority of blue collar workers are Christian family oriented people who love God and this country.

The communists in the democrat party would never vote a fair and equal board on ANY of their sites in the blogosphere and therefore they do not deserve one here when the majority here are conservatives.

[MadeinUSA]

Mr. Chairman:

I stand here in this historic room where many fine men have occupied this podium and have thrust their wisdom upon us and allowed their Judeo Christian values to shine which has made this such a treasured and strong nation.

Mr. Chairman, during the task of selecting our leaders, we must always only consider men with a heart that loves this country and a soul that is owned by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, for it is these two ideals that allowed us to create this sacred country. If we are to be entrusted with the responsibility to guide our future generations, it is these two strict guidelines we must always hold dear and pass on.

Therefore, with careful consideration I have selected men who I know to be honorable and fulfill these two ideal characteristics should they be allowed to oversee the fine God loving men and women who pass through this corner of our country.

I hereby select:

James 3528
Ga-HVAC-Tech
Chilly
Bootlen
Andy Schoen

to be our prophets and our guiding light here into the foreseeable future.

I, Mr. Chairman thank you, and I yield the floor.

[chucko615]

1. James3528
2. Geerair
3. Robo
4. Glennac8
5. Oloenekker

[The Doctor]

I would like to nominate the following folks for committee:
Chillbilly
Bootlen
James3528
Oloenneker
Roboteq

[bootlen]

Alphabetically

Andy Schoen
James3528
GAHVAC-Tech
Roboteq
The Doctor

I find these to be the most even-handed 5 on site.

Ya know, it is really is difficult choice. There are several others.

[k-fridge]

You are wrong. George Sorroes has financed the lefts media machine to overwhelm the right being we are not as organized and this would be as great a place to contribute to the conservative movement and press forward here to show the USA, the majority of blue collar workers are Christian family oriented people who love God and this country.

The communists in the democrat party would never vote a fair and equal board on ANY of their sites in the blogosphere and therefore they do not deserve one here when the majority here are conservatives.

Got drama?? LOL

While my political and religious views are similar to yours; I remind you that this is a discussion board, not one of the branches of our government. There are also some members from other countries that participate and all we are doing here is exchanging ideas and debating them.

If some of you wish to elect a hardcore Christian/conservative committee to police this forum, go ahead; but I warn you that once that happens, ideas other than our own will likely be stifled and this room that was once a forum for good discussion will be reduced to a back slapping party for a handful of "good old boys" with the same mindset.

How will we tell people of our beliefs if there is no one to "listen"? If you are Christian then surely you know that we spread the good news of the Bible by sharing it with nonbelievers. If you are a wise politician you surely know that to spread your message you must take your political views to others that do not yet know them. By making this a conservatives only club, we remove our ability to reach others.

My two cents folks, vote as you will.:)

[acmanko]

Got drama?? LOL

While my political and religious views are similar to yours; I remind you that this is a discussion board, not one of the branches of our government. There are also some members from other countries that participate and all we are doing here is exchanging ideas and debating them.

If some of you wish to elect a hardcore Christian/conservative committee to police this forum, go ahead; but I warn you that once that happens, ideas other than our own will likely be stifled and this room that was once a forum for good discussion will be reduced to a back slapping party for a handful of "good old boys" with the same mindset.

How will we tell people of our beliefs if there is no one to "listen"? If you are Christian then surely you know that we spread the good news of the Bible by sharing it with nonbelievers. If you are a wise politician you surely know that to spread your message you must take your political views to others that do not yet know them. By making this a conservatives only club, we remove our ability to reach others.

My two cents folks, vote as you will.:)
that may be one of the truist statements I ever read on this forum

[scrogdog]

For me it is also about diversity. Largely we have two most talked about issues... American politics and religion, so the 5 should be a representative cross-section of views while also being people that can be seen to be fair (though in some cases biased).

My choices;

James
Geer
Robo
Oloenneker
Royc

Am I saying that Geer and James will get along? No. I am saying that if you hand them the task, they would put away thier swords for the good of the forums. My first two picks could be seen as not-exactly-moderate, the other three... among the most fair, thoughtful people on the board.

As Boot said, a tough choice. Yes, I considered many.

I don't think 5 even-handed people suits, to be honest.

In my opinion.

[acmanko]

The more I see and read what's happening , the more I believe we should leave well enough alone. The forum rules are simple and available for all to read. The moderators we have now bann just as many members from other parts of the forum as they do fro ARP. why do we need a committee, just follow the rules and be done with it.:(

[bootlen]

I tend to agree. Little eruptions will always be around. If we can't get over them without a special committee, we got problems much bigger than this site.

[k-fridge]

The more I see and read what's happening , the more I believe we should leave well enough alone. The forum rules are simple and available for all to read. The moderators we have now bann just as many members from other parts of the forum as they do fro ARP. why do we need a committee, just follow the rules and be done with it

I tend to agree. Little eruptions will always be around. If we can't get over them without a special committee, we got problems much bigger than this site.
Perhaps this is what Admin is trying to make us realize.

I'm not sure we can get a committee that won't have a bias.

Besides, being a Baptist I've seen first hand that throwing a committee at every problem isn't always the answer. :D

[bootlen]

Besides, being a Baptist I've seen first hand that throwing a committee at every problem isn't always the answer. :D

Now there's a little truism that has been proven time and again.

[scrogdog]

The committee itself has no authority other than to make recommendations to those that do. The final authority still rests with the mods.

[markettech]

Perhaps this is what Admin is trying to make us realize.

I'm not sure we can get a committee that won't have a bias.

The inmates running the asylum.......:eek:

I've been keeping a running total:

For what it's worth, currently (as of 0820 CST) the top 6 are:

James with 12 votes
Chillbilly with 10 votes
RoboTeq with 10 votes
Ga-hvac-tech with 8 votes
Bootlin with 6 votes
Oloenneker with 5 votes - My bad, I added wrong...........not counting Mr. Boyd's post because I'm unsure as to whether he was voting or concurring.

[scrogdog]

The inmates running the asylum.......:eek:

I've been keeping a running total:

For what it's worth, currently (as of 0820 CST) the top 6 are:


James with 12 votes
Chillbilly with 10 votes
RoboTeq with 10 votes
Ga-hvac-tech with 8 votes
Bootlin with 6 votes
Oloenneker with 6 votes


Probably shows why this should not be a vote, but rather a selection by the Mods. If we end this at this moment, and we have 5 very great folks, but they are all believers (unless we resolve the 5th place tie in favor of Oleo). Not good, for precisely the same reasons that all conservatives would not be good.

[fastfred]

My choice is to leave the forum as is. Given the apparent influence of the conservative members, it seems at least to me that they comprise a majority, they certainly post more. I think the forum would very quickly reflect their
subjective point of view.

[acmanko]

By your count we have the top two vote getters as the most recently banned members( what does this say for respect of authority).
the third top votegetter is opinionated to the point of absurdity. leaving us with the bottom three, who seem to be the more analytical , making them a good choice.:D

[markettech]

If one were to take the glass half empty approach, flaws can be pointed out no matter what the final vote count.

I hope the members of this newly formed committee will be able to suppress personal feelings and affiliations - directing their focus entirely on site and ARP violations. If they can do this, it shouldn't matter which individuals are chosen.

It's not like Admin would be handing this committee the red phone and launch codes....;)

[Dad]

You guys know that I still hear what is going on both on and off of the board so you also know that I don't mind opening my big mouth and just let it flow. Here goes.....

It's pretty much an easy decision and you don't need me to explain why, you all know the reasons. But... if you really want the bottom line then here it is.

There will always be some form of moderation in ARP, committee or not. The committee will be responsible to smooth the rough edges and give Admin dude their recommendations. After years of listening to the disgruntled email and posts from the ARP forum not to mention the abuse the Mods/Admin/Editor gets something MUST change.

The other choice is to close ARP.

Knowing what the closing of ARP will do I must recommend the committee idea. I also understand there should be term limits and an impeachment rule for the committee and the chair should have a set term with rotation among it's other committee members. I also think that you should only serve on one committee. Sorry Robo but others need a chance to be involved.

May I please suggest if this committee is going to work that we set a term of membership for the chair to six (6) months and alphabetically rotate through to the next committee member in line. This will give the committee two and a half (2.5) years in place. You can be reelected via membership vote. I would also like to suggest that no member of the committee is immune to sanctions by the committee or the moderation staff.

Impeachment, if necessary, will be carried out by recommendations of the ARP membership at large and voted on via an ARP post/thread with a hidden pole. Majority rules via good cause and committee abstention of vote.

Now this will need to be tweaked and so be it. I will also abstain from voting on "My 5" due to my history here with the site. My last recommendation would be to vote a broad spectrum of ARP members on the board not the most popular. A one sided board will just create more issues and the closure of ARP will be forth coming.


Thanks for listening.

[acmanko]

If one were to take the glass half empty approach, flaws can be pointed out no matter what the final vote count.

I hope the members of this newly formed committee will be able to suppress personal feelings and affiliations - directing their focus entirely on site and ARP violations. If they can do this, it shouldn't matter which individuals are chosen.

It's not like Admin would be handing this committee the red phone and launch codes....;)
a glass is never half empty, it would be half full. as a glass come off the shelf it is empty, once it is used it is some percentage of being full till it is empty again.

[markettech]

a glass is never half empty, it would be half full. as a glass come off the shelf it is empty, once it is used it is some percentage of being full till it is empty again.

I like the way you think;)

[acmanko]

I like the way you think;)well thank you , I believe that would be a first for me

[markettech]

well thank you , I believe that would be a first for me

Let me clarify........I like the way you think in regards to the "glass" theory...:D :D

[acmanko]

You guys know that I still hear what is going on both on and off of the board so you also know that I don't mind opening my big mouth and just let it flow. Here goes.....

It's pretty much an easy decision and you don't need me to explain why, you all know the reasons. But... if you really want the bottom line then here it is.

There will always be some form of moderation in ARP, committee or not. The committee will be responsible to smooth the rough edges and give Admin dude their recommendations. After years of listening to the disgruntled email and posts from the ARP forum not to mention the abuse the Mods/Admin/Editor gets something MUST change.

The other choice is to close ARP.

Knowing what the closing of ARP will do I must recommend the committee idea. I also understand there should be term limits and an impeachment rule for the committee and the chair should have a set term with rotation among it's other committee members. I also think that you should only serve on one committee. Sorry Robo but others need a chance to be involved.

May I please suggest if this committee is going to work that we set a term of membership for the chair to six (6) months and alphabetically rotate through to the next committee member in line. This will give the committee two and a half (2.5) years in place. You can be reelected via membership vote. I would also like to suggest that no member of the committee is immune to sanctions by the committee or the moderation staff.

Impeachment, if necessary, will be carried out by recommendations of the ARP membership at large and voted on via an ARP post/thread with a hidden pole. Majority rules via good cause and committee abstention of vote.

Now this will need to be tweaked and so be it. I will also abstain from voting on "My 5" due to my history here with the site. My last recommendation would be to vote a broad spectrum of ARP members on the board not the most popular. A one sided board will just create more issues and the closure of ARP will be forth coming.


Thanks for listening.
so if we go alphabetically, that means I'm in the running. I was wondering what my horscope meant by something important will enter your life.

[acmanko]

Let me clarify........I like the way you think in regards to the "glass" theory...:D :DMy fan club has dwindled again.:(

[The Hobic]

Besides, being a Baptist I've seen first hand that throwing a committee at every problem isn't always the answer. :D

I don't comment much around here but I had to give this one a BIG AMEN! lol

[ga-hvac-tech]

ARP folks,

I have a few thoughts here I would like to share:

1) We have been given an opportunity/break. As Lusker said: closing ARP is STILL on the table.
2) We, the members of ARP, will be responsible for what goes on from Sunday forward (as soon as the board takes position). I realize that mods/Admin/Editor will still have the trump card, but if this board thingy fails; I expect that to be the last nail in the coffin so to say. This is clear to me, and I think we all need to drink a cup of coffee and realize it.
3) I think Dave Lusker has some good ideas above. And I doubt he would have posted them if there was no chance of us voting to adopt some of them. I think we need to be smart enough to listen and heed the voice of wisdom.

Some of the folks here are either ex-military or have a knowledge of military history. I would like to refer to two groups of rebels and/or misfits that were given a 'break' and did well with it: The Black Sheep Squadron led by Pappy Boington, and The Tuskegee Airmen. Both of these groups pulled themselves together and made good with the break they were given. And in each group, the good of the group ended up taking prescidence over the ideals of the individual. I call that maturity. Can we do this?

How about lets put aside living out of our feelings/beliefs concerning politics, and band together so we can keep our sandbox to ourselves.

I can tell you this: I truely believe that if we do not 'self police' this place successfully, it will either be closed or changed to the point where it will not be worth posting at anymore.

So the ball is in our courts now so to say. Lets rise above petty politics and selfishness and run this place like the professionals we are.

[coordinatesales]

I agree that we need a somewhat balanced committee and my votes (in random order) are as follows:

Bootlen
Geerair
Oloenekker
James
Robo

[mrs reb77]

so if we go alphabetically, that means I'm in the running. I was wondering what my horscope meant by something important will enter your life.

Uh, I think you have to first be in the top 5 ack.

Can we change our vote up until Sunday? I listed Boot but it sounds like he's declining nomination and I really do feel that Oleo might be a good choice for diversity.

[k-fridge]

Uh, I think you have to first be in the top 5 ack.

Can we change our vote up until Sunday? I listed Boot but it sounds like he's declining nomination and I really do feel that Oleo might be a good choice for diversity.
You should be able to edit your post.....I think.

[RoBoTeq]

Sorry Robo but others need a chance to be involved.



Not a problem. I have enough on the other top five nominees to not need to be directly active:cool:

[bootlen]

Not a problem. I have enough on the other top five nominees to not need to be directly active:cool:

Ya got nuthin' on me, ya heah? Nuthin'! :cool:

[forged alloy]

I don't see the need either.

I haven't come across much mean-spirited posting. Of course I'm still a new kid on the block.

[mrs reb77]

One of the major complaints in this forum at present is the major amount of spam going on, not mean spiritedness (but, that happens too). As with many laws and regulations, perhaps just the formation of the committee will weed out the problems!

[markettech]

One of the major complaints in this forum at present is the major amount of spam going on, not mean spiritedness (but, that happens too). As with many laws and regulations, perhaps just the formation of the committee will weed out the problems!

Good point.

How many here willfully disobey traffic laws after spotting a squad in your rear view?

Sometimes a presence is all it takes......;)

[bootlen]

With Lusker's explanation, the "committee" thing may be a good idea after all.

I'm sure there's a lot of "behind-the-scenes" activities that make this place what it is so without posts to explain how things work, we just don't have the "big pic".

The rotation thing sounds like a great idea, too. That would help keep everybody (shall we say?) honest.

[sysint]

Geer
Andy S

[Dad]

Does anyone think the voting should last a few days past this Sunday?

Is it enough time for everyone to chime in?

Just a thought...

[makinmoney]

Due to the fact that this part of the site cause alot of the participants to go at each others juglars.....

Also, since the rules are plane and simple, I would appoint members that DON'T normally post here. That would stop any appearence of bias........

[bootlen]

Whatever it takes to get a good sampling.

[mrs reb77]

Sunday seems like plenty of time.

I'll bet the standings don't change a great deal from now til then!

[markettech]

Due to the fact that this part of the site cause alot of the participants to go at each others juglars.....

Also, since the rules are plane and simple, I would appoint members that DON'T normally post here. That would stop any appearence of bias........


............those poor, poor, people.

My take on it - those that don't visit ARP make it a point to stay out for a reason, so why would they want to oversee a bunch of.........................civil members calmly debating today's issues in a respectful manner?:rolleyes:

[makinmoney]

............those poor, poor, people.

My take on it - those that don't visit ARP make it a point to stay out for a reason, so why would they want to oversee a bunch of.........................civil members calmly debating today's issues in a respectful manner?:rolleyes:

I agree with what you said.

The point I was trying to make was why let the people that play the game govern it......

It appears that 50% of the people on this forum dispise the other 50%, and vice-versa.

That is why not alot of the members jump in on the discussions. I come to this part of the site rarely because of that reason.

Hope I explained what I was trying to say in a better manner.....

[chillbilly]

By your count we have the top two vote getters as the most recently banned members( what does this say for respect of authority).
That's a good point, however even the nicest folks on this site have repeated bannable offenses, including you.
Who cares what political or religious affiliation you have?
Do the current mods have they type of "stuff" you prefer?
Or anyone else for that matter? I believe everyone here can be objective enough to help settle small problems that arise here.
I can tell you this; If I am part of any decision making body, I'm going to conduct myself in much the same manner as I always have and that means never pouting to the powers that be.
And someone would have to not only step over the line, but they would have to stomp on it for me to take action against them.
Take that into consideration if you want my 2 cents.
If not, I don't give a fig.
We're not electing The Warren Commission or the next leader of the free world.




the third top votegetter is opinionated to the point of absurdity. leaving us with the bottom three, who seem to be the more analytical , making them a good choice.:D
Thank you Mr. Gallup. :rolleyes:

[mrs reb77]

despise is a pretty strong word

I don't think it would run 50-50 either, there are just a few apples that allow their bad spots and worms to show that try to ruin it for the rest.

[mrs reb77]

me doth think ack is a little jealous cause he only has one vote....counting his!

[chillbilly]

Sunday seems like plenty of time.

I'll bet the standings don't change a great deal from now til then!

Yeah, I have a feeling when they saw the numbers coming in and james and I up top, they decided to propose a revision. :rolleyes: LOL

This is what admin should not be doing. Changing the rules on the fly.
You set up a vote and a deadline.
Now, how about sticking to it?

This is what gahvactech and a few others are complaining about.
Consistentcy.
EXAMPLE;
If a current member is banned, why show his status as simply a 'member' and not 'banned' like other members who are currently banned or past members who have been banned?
Doesn't exactly elicit feelings of equality when exceptions are made on behalf of longtime members while shorttimers get a poke in the whiskers.

[Dad]

Yeah, I have a feeling when they saw the numbers coming in and james and I up top, they decided to propose a revision. :rolleyes: LOL

This is what admin should not be doing. Changing the rules on the fly.
You set up a vote and a deadline.
Now, how about sticking to it?

This is what gahvactech and a few others are complaining about.
Consistentcy.
EXAMPLE;
If a current member is banned, why show his status as simply a 'member' and not 'banned' like other members who are currently banned or past members who have been banned?
Doesn't exactly elicit feelings of equality when exceptions are made on behalf of longtime members while shorttimers get a poke in the whiskers.

Once again we find someone that can't read... ghezzz get a grip. It wasn't the Admin that suggested it.. I DID. That makes the rest of your above post mute and to suggest that the Mods or Admin would even think of such a thing is preposterous.

On a more personal note... I think people with that kind of attitude and suggestive reasoning doesn't need to hold any position here.. but what the heck do I know.

OH yeah... btw... James was changed to moderate post from banned so he could still read the threads. He just couldn't post. That's why his title said member not banned. If you want to check it out.. I'll show you on your user account. Only problem is that I tend to get busy and forget so you may have to wait awhile before it gets reopened.

[scrogdog]

My choices;

James
Geer
Robo
Oloenneker
Royc



Given that Robo has been disqualified, I submit my new replacement vote.

Chillbilly.

[markettech]

OH yeah... btw... James was changed to moderate post from banned so he could still read the threads. He just couldn't post. That's why his title said member not banned. If you want to check it out.. I'll show you on your user account. Only problem is that I tend to get busy and forget so you may have to wait awhile before it gets reopened.

LMAO

I don't care who ya are - that rite thar's funny:D :D

[markettech]

Given that Robo has been disqualified, I submit my new replacement vote.

Chillbilly.

Vote early.............vote often.;)

[k-fridge]

James name did read banned after the he got the infamous incident last Sunday. I tuned in to ARP after church and saw that and thought "what the".

[Dad]

Sorry... I don't normally do that but in that case it was just too far out of line.

[scrogdog]

On a more personal note... I think people with that kind of attitude and suggestive reasoning doesn't need to hold any position here.. but what the heck do I know.

You are welcome to your opinion, my friend. Let me tell you why I just voted for Chillbilly.

First, to make good decisions... I believe that one should be intimately familiar with the workings of this board. I understand that the mods avoid the place... that's fine. Still, it seems to me that we want just the opposite here... someone fair and with passion.

What, you say? What Chilly just said is completely unfair! Yes it was. Chilly, you bad boy. But listen, all of us here are going to make mistakes, lose it on occasion, or what have you. I have never, not once, been banned, warned or gotten an email from any mod here. I have also never ever, not once, even made a complaint TO a mod about any person or post in this forum. But certainly NO MAN can say that I have never made a mistake or lost my temper.

Well... that's the human condition. (nudges Chilly)

And that's the nature of these forums and I think we would all do well to remember that passions, by nature, will always run high here. Now, I think the comittee is a good idea. Perhaps things are a little too loose around here. Chill makes as many mistakes as the rest of us, but I have never ever percieved him to be a man that does not stand up and apologize when he's wrong.

And Chill... you were wrong, my friend.

[Admin]

Nothing has been changed from what I stated in the very first post.

Yes, there will be certain guidelines that must be followed, BUT, the "committee" will decide on them. After all, it is the membership that is electing them. That is why I removed arpa's nominations, and asked the other moderators not to vote.

Sunday at 10am, voting ends.

I did call and ask Robo his feelings. He stated that he would be too busy being on two committees and therefore wants to stay on the membership committee. Therefor, if you voted for Robo, he probably thanks you, but his vote does not count. You may vote for another to replace him.

[markettech]

James name did read banned after the he got the infamous incident last Sunday. I tuned in to ARP after church and saw that and thought "what the".

Nothing will get the taste of church outta your mouth faster than ARP;) ......:D

HEY - that could be the new slogan!!

[Twilly]

Since Twilli's choice of Robo has been taken off the table, Twilli go with James, my vote for acefurnacefixer stands. Twilli has his number in case anyone in TPTB want to call him and apologize and invite him back.

Fair Accurate Balanced

[scrogdog]

Nothing will get the taste of church outta your mouth faster than ARP

Absolutely pricless! :D

[RoBoTeq]

Due to the fact that this part of the site cause alot of the participants to go at each others juglars.....

Also, since the rules are plane and simple, I would appoint members that DON'T normally post here. That would stop any appearence of bias........

NO WAY! Members who don't post here don't do so for a reason. Either they just don't like to talk religion and/or politics or maybe they are just too thin skinned to be able to take the abuse. Either way, this would be like having hunters on the membership board for PETA or White Supresists on a NAACP committee.

[RoBoTeq]

I did call and ask Robo his feelings. He stated that he would be too busy being on two committees and therefore wants to stay on the membership committee. Therefor, if you voted for Robo, he probably thanks you, but his vote does not count. You may vote for another to replace him.

If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve;)

[chillbilly]

Sorry... I don't normally do that but in that case it was just too far out of line.

OK. So it was you and you are in no way a part of the process.
My mistake.
Sorry.

Now, can you please tell me again why james was allowed to review posts while his ban was still in effect??
Also note that for someone who isn't a part of the site admin, you seem to bring more definitive answers to the site than anyone else. :rolleyes:
I'd also like to point out that you threatened me with another ban after I came back on the site after a ban. (Refer to thread welcome back Chillbilly)
Are you able execute bans while not being a mod or admin too?
As for your opinion, You're right. What do you know? I couldn't give a crap what you think of how I come to my conclusions about various posts.
The fact that you still seem to be a mouthpeice for the site may indicate that my conclusions are not unfounded.

[glennac]

OK. So it was you and you are in no way a part of the process.
My mistake.
Sorry.

Now, can you please tell me again why james was allowed to review posts while his ban was still in effect??
Also note that for someone who isn't a part of the site admin, you seem to bring more definitive answers to the site than anyone else. :rolleyes:
I'd also like to point out that you threatened me with another ban after I came back on the site after a ban. (Refer to thread welcome back Chillbilly)
Are you able execute bans while not being a mod or admin too?
As for your opinion, You're right. What do you know? I couldn't give a crap what you think of how I come to my conclusions about various posts.
The fact that you still seem to be a mouthpeice for the site may indicate that my conclusions are not unfounded.

Chill, chill a little, James is not Jack the Ripper. He just got wound up a little to tight in his discussions with the mods and site admin. Like a lot of us he gets a little to wound up sometimes to much especially when talking to the mods and site admin. He went were few have feared to tread and got wacked for it. I'm sure he has realized his mistake as you have and will be welcomed back. Everything is ok lighten up.:)

[acmanko]

i vote again and all my votes but one go to Chillbilly the other one goes to me.

[acmanko]

I think I will vote again, Chillbilly gets four, James gets one and I get one.

[RoBoTeq]

I think I will vote again, Chillbilly gets four, James gets one and I get one.

Typical; just can't make up your....er....whatever it is that takes up the space in your head where the rest of us have minds.

[acmanko]

Typical; just can't make up your....er....whatever it is that takes up the space in your head where the rest of us have minds.Your tin head is squeaking rather loud, the high price of oil is strarting to hurt huh

[RoBoTeq]

Your tin head is squeaking rather loud, the high price of oil is strarting to hurt huh

The Tinman was missing a heart, scarecrow. Hmmmm; acscarecrow.....

[mrs reb77]

I think I will vote again, Chillbilly gets four, James gets one and I get one.

ack, I know it's hard but try to pay attention here. You get five (5) votes. Five. Now, if you vote more than once your vote doesn't count at all. All five (5) votes should be together for easier counting. Your five (5) votes are all you get. 4+1+1 equals 6 Doesn't it? And voting more than once equals zero (0) votes.

[glennac]

ack, I know it's hard but try to pay attention here. You get five (5) votes. Five. Now, if you vote more than once your vote doesn't count at all. All five (5) votes should be together for easier counting. Your five (5) votes are all you get. 4+1+1 equals 6 Doesn't it? And voting more than once equals zero (0) votes.

Mrs reb, you must have been a special ed teacher somewhere in the past.:D :D :D

[mrs reb77]

Naw, I have democrats for in-laws...lots of explaining of simple things takes place!

[acmanko]

Naw, I have democrats for in-laws...lots of explaining of simple things takes place!some would call that infatuation.;)

[chillbilly]

Chill, chill a little, James is not Jack the Ripper. He just got wound up a little to tight in his discussions with the mods and site admin. Like a lot of us he gets a little to wound up sometimes to much especially when talking to the mods and site admin. He went were few have feared to tread and got wacked for it. I'm sure he has realized his mistake as you have and will be welcomed back. Everything is ok lighten up.:)
That's funny. :D :D
Yeah OK glenn.
Another thing that I kinda' wondered about was allowing 2 banned members back in on a "pardon" so that they could be part of a vote.
Seems to me that a ban would be irrevocable and that giving a pardon was an arbitrary act that would bring the judgement of authority into question.
Every time authority is questioned, instead of recriminations, it would be nice to see some acknowledgement of improprieties, if they exist.
I'm not losing any sleep over it either way.

[ga-hvac-tech]

ack, I know it's hard but try to pay attention here. You get five (5) votes. Five. Now, if you vote more than once your vote doesn't count at all. All five (5) votes should be together for easier counting. Your five (5) votes are all you get. 4+1+1 equals 6 Doesn't it? And voting more than once equals zero (0) votes.

See, I told you guys we need a little estrogen on the board to balance the testosterone... :D

This thread is more fun than any I have read in a long time. I think Admin needs to do something like this more often... :rolleyes:

Seriously:
1) ARP folks are the ones that understand ARP. Outside leadership would IMO be a disaster.
2) I am assuming that all of us are mature enough to put our personal belief systems and preferences aside when the call to govern is offered. If anyone is not capable of that, I hope they are a honest enough to step aside. Having said that, I am sure every one of us will screw up in this area. But IMO this needs to be a goal to stay focused on. We all b*tch about government, lets not behave like the ones we b*tch about.
3) Chilly, cool off Bro! You are a gifted leader; but like me you have a temper. Cool heads always prevail (one of those difficult lessons I struggle with). Based on the current vote count, I am looking forward to serving with you bro!
4) I think we have an excellent asset in Lusker being 'in the pit' with us. I truely believe he wants this to succeed! And I for one am not above swallowing it and listening to his wisdom about the site. He has a lot of insight of the 'behind the scenes dealings' I think we all could learn from.

OK, enough for now. This is a priceless thread, I hope we get to keep it after the voting is done.

I am looking forward to what we can create here in ARP. As I said before: we have been given an opportunity, lets take it seriously and make it a success!

(Send donations to your favourite charity... :D )

[ga-hvac-tech]

That's funny. :D :D
Yeah OK glenn.
Another thing that I kinda' wondered about was allowing 2 banned members back in on a "pardon" so that they could be part of a vote.
Seems to me that a ban would be irrevocable and that giving a pardon was an arbitrary act that would bring the judgement of authority into question.
Every time authority is questioned, instead of recriminations, it would be nice to see some acknowledgement of improprieties, if they exist.
I'm not losing any sleep over it either way.

Hi Chilly,

I am not crossing you here Bro, just suggesting my opinion. Circumstances brought about the idea of the ARP board when James was in 'cyber jail'. Now take a look at James posting pattern: he posts mostly in ARP. Would it be fair to deny him the opportunity to vote for the leadership of his favourite forum, and leave him stuck w/out a chance to contribute to this board? We do not know if that 'vacation' will re-commence after the voting is over, do we???

I personally think it was a wise move on the part of Editor (not sure if Admin had a hand in it).

IMO ARP is kinda like an extended family of folks. Some fussy, some intellectuals, some conservatives, some liberals, some children, but still a family. We pick on each other mercilessly, but I have no doubt that any of us would jump to help out if one of our crowd had an emergency in their life. There is a place for our kind, even if the mainstream does not understand us. Lets build that place for ourselves, and take care of the housekeeping to keep it going!

[chillbilly]

Hi Chilly,

I am not crossing you here Bro, just suggesting my opinion. Circumstances brought about the idea of the ARP board when James was in 'cyber jail'. Now take a look at James posting pattern: he posts mostly in ARP. Would it be fair to deny him the opportunity to vote for the leadership of his favourite forum, and leave him stuck w/out a chance to contribute to this board?
Well yeah. If he happened to be banned at the time the vote was to take place, why is there a need for special dispensation?


We do not know if that 'vacation' will re-commence after the voting is over, do we???
So what? Are you suggesting that the vote should be coordinated around a banned member(s)? With respect to you, you were expressing the same type of concerns 24 hours ago about how the site is managed.


I personally think it was a wise move on the part of Editor (not sure if Admin had a hand in it).
I see nothing wise about it.


IMO ARP is kinda like an extended family of folks. Some fussy, some intellectuals, some conservatives, some liberals, some children, but still a family. We pick on each other mercilessly, but I have no doubt that any of us would jump to help out if one of our crowd had an emergency in their life. There is a place for our kind, even if the mainstream does not understand us. Lets build that place for ourselves, and take care of the housekeeping to keep it going!
I'm all for the place and the people too, but I'm not about to shut my mouth to secure an appointment on a committee.

[Collin]

Damn straight James deserves special attention.
This area was originally opened just after the Sept 11 attacks, and although it has evolved, James has invested a lot of his time here. To deny him his input on a major change just because he is in a two week time-out would be unfair and vindictive.

[Andy Schoen]

Mmmm... I think I'm finding myself on too many top 5 lists. :(

My suggestion, if it could work:
James 3528
Ga-HVAC-Tech
Chilly
Bootlen
Geerair

For those who have participated on Usenet's unmoderated group discussions, I find HVAC-Talk's ARP generally quite reasonable. Hvac/r types must be more civil than the general population. ;)


Geer
Andy S

Crap! Now I know I've argued with Geerair too long. :(

[scrogdog]

I am afraid I am going to have to go with Chilly on this one.

Banning is well, banning. That should mean the same thing to all. If it is NOT to be the same for all, then you need categories. Banned... not-so-banned... somewhat banned... and like that.

I respect James a lot but he's... uh... BANNED.

Anyway, seniority is respected around here by the membership... and that is as far as it should go.

Just my humble opinion.

[Carnak]

Mmmm... I think I'm finding myself on too many top 5 lists. :(

My suggestion, if it could work:
James 3528
Ga-HVAC-Tech
Chilly
Bootlen
Geerair

For those who have participated on Usenet's unmoderated group discussions, I find HVAC-Talk's ARP generally quite reasonable. Hvac/r types must be more civil than the general population. ;)



Crap! Now I know I've argued with Geerair too long. :(

ARP reminds me of why usenet went south. Noticed your name in a title there a few weeks back

[scrogdog]

Mmmm... I think I'm finding myself on too many top 5 lists.

Got another one for you, I am afraid. Top 5 members who have heard of Spinoza. ;)

[mrs reb77]

Um, does James know he's pardoned to vote? Cause I haven't seen him do so. Perhaps all this bickering is for naught?

James didn't kill anyone, I suggested he get paroled for good behavior a day or so ago--they've let people off early before just after 2nd thoughts, ask Roscoe!

[mrs reb77]

Got another one for you, I am afraid. Top 5 members who have heard of Spinoza. ;)

too....deep!

[scrogdog]

ARP reminds me of why usenet went south. Noticed your name in a title there a few weeks back

Carnak you old devil. You like Black Sabbath and used anarchy-net. Yea, brother! :)

What do you mean, went South? Dropped off the South pole in to oblivion? :D

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well yeah. If he happened to be banned at the time the vote was to take place, why is there a need for special dispensation?

So what? Are you suggesting that the vote should be coordinated around a banned member(s)? With respect to you, you were expressing the same type of concerns 24 hours ago about how the site is managed.

I see nothing wise about it.

I'm all for the place and the people too, but I'm not about to shut my mouth to secure an appointment on a committee.

I guess it best to agree to disagree here Chilly.

And concerning my behavior: I was pissed at TPTB, I thought they were playing the cards to maximize hit counts (creates revenue). I jabbed them in posts repeatedly to goad a response. They responded. I sent an Email privately and raised a stink (bet you did not know that). I received a reply suggesting I come up with a better idea. I did, and sent it in. Now I would be lieing if I said I was the one that suggested the board, but my ideas did lean in that direction. I personally think it was a conclusion based on a lot of ideas that were both posted and submitted privately.

And I will toot my horn here once: I chose to put myself on the line and raise a fuss. I also got in there and 'made a difference'. If I did that in a way that you do not like or approve of, well we are all different. But my point is I stuck my neck out and got into the frey. Perhaps if I had been banned recently I would not be as bold, I guess I will never know the answer to that one... (BTW-that is NOT a comment towards you).

And personally, I think the outcome (being offered the opportunity to self police officially) is better than what we could have gotten.

I 'got quiet' on a hunch early in the evening when the thread about the board came out later. I had no idea it was coming. I was on a long dist conversation with a friend until well after 11:00 PM EDT. I did not even see the thread until almost midnite if I remember. Why did I get quiet? Not sure why, just one of those things one feels in their gut and knows if they do not pay heed they will pay for the stupid choice.

Yes, I have been campaigning the last day or so. Reason is that I believe in what we are about to do. Honestly, if I am not on the committee, I will support it. If I am, I will SERVE as best I can. And I sure as h*ll will put myself and my politics and my personal Christian perspective to the side when I have to make a decision about someone. I will, however, treat all folks as fairly as I can.

I just hope all the leaders that get the nod can do that. (This last sentence was NOT directed at anyone, it is an encouragement for all of us to do our best).

If you have any more questions there Bro, please let me know and I will do my best to answer them.

BTW: I figured I would be called for my behavior the last few days. THX for giving me an opportunity to get it out and dealt with.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Um, does James know he's pardoned to vote? Cause I haven't seen him do so. Perhaps all this bickering is for naught?

James didn't kill anyone, I suggested he get paroled for good behavior a day or so ago--they've let people off early before just after 2nd thoughts, ask Roscoe!

I sent him an Email, he knows.

[Dad]

OK. So it was you and you are in no way a part of the process.
My mistake.
Sorry.

Now, can you please tell me again why james was allowed to review posts while his ban was still in effect??

Yes, it was your mistake but since you said please I will tell you why. Because he and the Admin had a discussion and the Admin made it so. Not me.



Also note that for someone who isn't a part of the site admin, you seem to bring more definitive answers to the site than anyone else. :rolleyes: Why thank you for the complement. I do try to be accomidating.



I'd also like to point out that you threatened me with another ban after I came back on the site after a ban. (Refer to thread welcome back Chillbilly)
Are you able execute bans while not being a mod or admin too?

You will know when I threaten cause you'll be toast shortly after. Since retiring my position here, oh yeah, you didn't know, you must have been banned at that time, but just for you and because your so curious I'll tell you the obvious. I still have site powers as does Don and a few more people here that you don't know but there is no need for me to use them unless I want to.



As for your opinion, You're right. What do you know? I couldn't give a crap what you think of how I come to my conclusions about various posts.
The fact that you still seem to be a mouthpeice for the site may indicate that my conclusions are not unfounded.

Well, you got me there and the feeling is becoming very mutual but the fact remains you were way out of line and that you should give a crap about if you indeed intend sit on the new ARP board. You will see first hand what it takes to monitor and advise your collegues, stay within the rules and vote your opinions with four others to protect the ARP area.

Your conclusions about the staff here are wrong and you insulted them and slandered their principles by suggesting they would interfere in this process.

Anything else you want to know from me or about me you’ll have to send me an email and ask. I’ll be happy to bore you with the details. I promise I will be civil.

[Andy Schoen]

ARP reminds me of why usenet went south. Noticed your name in a title there a few weeks back
Usenet went south due to well designed web based blogs and Google. Usenet was simply left behind. ;)

[Carnak]

Carnak you old devil. You like Black Sabbath and used anarchy-net. Yea, brother! :)

What do you mean, went South? Dropped off the South pole in to oblivion? :D
I remember when mel was getting flack for recruitted for this site on alt.hvac

[chillbilly]

Damn straight James deserves special attention.
This area was originally opened just after the Sept 11 attacks, and although it has evolved, James has invested a lot of his time here. To deny him his input on a major change just because he is in a two week time-out would be unfair and vindictive.

I don't care if the area was opened after D-Day. Any member that is banned at the time of any event should not be allowed to participate in any function. Period. That's my opinion and whether you like or dislike it or take it as criticism or a good idea is up to you.
Allowing 'read only' priviliges and special pardons to preferred members during a ban is unfair to members who are not afforded those same allowances.
James would be the first one to admit that he doesn't expect anything more than anyone else here and he's certainly not the only member on this forum to have invested time here.

Thanks for proving my point and acknowledging the fact that preferential treatment exists for some and is not allowed for others.
Of course, you're one of the first guys I would expect to condone dysfunction, so there's no suprise there. :rolleyes:

[glennac]

I don't care if the area was opened after D-Day. Any member that is banned at the time of any event should not be allowed to participate in any function. Period. That's my opinion and whether you like or dislike it or take it as criticism or a good idea is up to you.
Allowing 'read only' priviliges and special pardons to preferred members during a ban is unfair to members who are not afforded those same allowances.
James would be the first one to admit that he doesn't expect anything more than anyone else here and he's certainly not the only member on this forum to have invested time here.

Thanks for proving my point and acknowledging the fact that preferential treatment exists for some and is not allowed for others.
Of course, you're one of the first guys I would expect to condone dysfunction, so there's no suprise there. :rolleyes:

Hey Chilly, when James does decide to rengage into the debate in this form, I suggest that you and him exchange emails so you all can express your differnces priviately in lieu of tieing up two or three threads on this form . chuing the fat so to speak.:cool: ;)

[RoBoTeq]

Um, does James know he's pardoned to vote? Cause I haven't seen him do so. Perhaps all this bickering is for naught?

James didn't kill anyone, I suggested he get paroled for good behavior a day or so ago--they've let people off early before just after 2nd thoughts, ask Roscoe!

He knows. He is still licking his wounds:cool: James is too funnel visioned to even realize that he has basically won the war his defeated battle invoked.

[RoBoTeq]

Carnak you old devil. You like Black Sabbath and used anarchy-net. Yea, brother! :)

What do you mean, went South? Dropped off the South pole in to oblivion? :D

If anyone knows about "going south" it would be carnak:D

[smokin68]

chillbilly
ga-hvac-tech
GEER
Oloenneker
bootlen

[markettech]

I am going to walk very softly here as I am not a regular contributor to this forum:

My feeling is the situation relating to James benching should not have been allowed to escalate to the level that it did in the first place - but who am I?........Nobody.

James has been a member of this site for a very, very long time. My belief is seniority should have its privileges.

I don't think it is right to afford a new-comer, who has yet to prove him or herself, the same amount of latitude a 6 or 7 year veteran is given and vise-verse.

James was banned. The ban has been lifted. Would you have rather the Admin dude said James is banned indefinitely rather than saying it was for 2 weeks? To me, it boils down to semantics.

I do get the feeling however that if the Admindude would have chosen the first route, no one would be whining (for lack of a better word) about his ban being lifted so soon.

I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess Admin is a flesh and blood human being - subjected to many of the same human emotions the rest of us are. Do you suppose it could it be possible both sides over reacted in the heat of the moment and the lifting of the ban is a reflection of this?

James ban has been lifted. Has anyone seen a post by him since last evening? For a guy who averages 13 posts per day, does it not strike anyone as strange that he's not once again feasting on the weak?

Rather than focus on why his ban was lifted, one might ask: Just where is James, and why?

[Twilly]

He knows. He is still licking his wounds:cool: James is too funnel visioned to even realize that he has basically won the war his defeated battle invoked.


Jet fumes;)

[chillbilly]

Yes, it was your mistake but since you said please I will tell you why. Because he and the Admin had a discussion and the Admin made it so. Not me.
I didn't say please and you are now admitting to still possessing admin powers, something you suggested was out of your realm earlier.
I guess my gut was right.






You will know when I threaten cause you'll be toast shortly after.
Yep. What was it you were saying about my type of suggestive reasoning?

Since retiring my position here, oh yeah, you didn't know, you must have been banned at that time
No. I have been banned only once and even then it was questionable.
I didn't know about your retirement probably because I was too busy running my own business to notice you.


but just for you and because your so curious I'll tell you the obvious. I still have site powers as does Don and a few more people here that you don't know but there is no need for me to use them unless I want to.
Oh, I know Don. He sold me my load program. Nice guy.
And again, my suggestive reasoning about you seems to have been a direct hit in the bulls-eye.




Well, you got me there and the feeling is becoming very mutual but the fact remains you were way out of line and that you should give a crap about if you indeed intend sit on the new ARP board.
Well, since you want to keep reiterating the out of line thing, I'll admit that I was incorrect on who was responsible for the action, even though you have acknowledged that you could have indeed performed the same action yourself.



You will see first hand what it takes to monitor and advise your collegues, stay within the rules and vote your opinions with four others to protect the ARP area.
If I am elected to do so, I will monitor ARP in a very objective fashion.


Your conclusions about the staff here are wrong and you insulted them and slandered their principles by suggesting they would interfere in this process.
This is nothing more than commentary. I have pointed out some things which IMO are inconsistent. If you want to turn those points into a smear campaign, go right ahead.
What principles did I slander and how is criticism that I feel is warranted, an insult??


Anything else you want to know from me or about me you’ll have to send me an email and ask. I’ll be happy to bore you with the details. I promise I will be civil.
Okie-Dokie. Oh, and I'm not bored at all with the details.
In fact, my opinion is that when details are overlooked, bad things happen.

[ga-hvac-tech]

He knows. He is still licking his wounds:cool: James is too tunnel visioned to even realize that he has basically won the war his defeated battle invoked.

Funny thing: A study of battle history and geopolitical posturing will show that this happens more than we realize (both the tunnel vision and the winning by being defeated in a skirmish).

Go Jamesie, GO... :D

(I bet I get in trouble with Chilly for that one...Nothing personal Bro, just calling it as I see it).

Hey Chilly; I am for sure going to the convention in a few weeks; Saturday evening gathering that is. Would you be so kind as to show your mug there so I can shake your hand? Would like to tip one and toast this esteemed group of folks... :cool:

I think it is time for me to retire this evening. I did not sleep well last nite (too wound up over the board thingy I guess).

You folks have a GREAT time here, I will catch up in the morning.

[RoBoTeq]

What does one who has shot off all of their cannons usually do?





RELOAD!

[chillbilly]

I am going to walk very softly here as I am not a regular contributor to this forum:

My feeling is the situation relating to James benching should not have been allowed to escalate to the level that it did in the first place - but who am I?........Nobody.

James has been a member of this site for a very, very long time. My belief is seniority should have its privileges.

I don't think it is right to afford a new-comer, who has yet to prove him or herself, the same amount of latitude a 6 or 7 year veteran is given and vise-verse.

James was banned. The ban has been lifted. Would you have rather the Admin dude said James is banned indefinitely rather than saying it was for 2 weeks? To me, it boils down to semantics.

I do get the feeling however that if the Admindude would have chosen the first route, no one would be whining (for lack of a better word) about his ban being lifted so soon.

I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess Admin is a flesh and blood human being - subjected to many of the same human emotions the rest of us are. Do you suppose it could it be possible both sides over reacted in the heat of the moment and the lifting of the ban is a reflection of this?

James ban has been lifted. Has anyone seen a post by him since last evening? For a guy who averages 13 posts per day, does it not strike anyone as strange that he's not once again feasting on the weak?

Rather than focus on why his ban was lifted, one might ask: Just where is James, and why?

I respect your opinion mark, but this is not a union shop where seniority is paramount to privilige.
If members are elected into this site by admin, a membership committee or whoever, then admin bears the responsibility of treating them as equals.
IMO, If they are treated differently, the integrity of the site and how it is managed undoubtedly will come into question.

[chillbilly]

Hey Chilly, when James does decide to rengage into the debate in this form, I suggest that you and him exchange emails so you all can express your differnces priviately in lieu of tieing up two or three threads on this form . chuing the fat so to speak.:cool: ;)

What differences? I have not complained about the fact that james was banned. I was only pointing out some contrasts in how his ban was handled as opposed to some other bans I have seen.
Is there no room for a friggin complaint in this forum now?
Sheesh :rolleyes:

[chillbilly]

Funny thing: A study of battle history and geopolitical posturing will show that this happens more than we realize (both the tunnel vision and the winning by being defeated in a skirmish).

Go Jamesie, GO... :D

(I bet I get in trouble with Chilly for that one...Nothing personal Bro, just calling it as I see it).
No trouble from me. I enjoy james presence on this site probably more than everyone else.


Hey Chilly; I am for sure going to the convention in a few weeks; Saturday evening gathering that is. Would you be so kind as to show your mug there so I can shake your hand? Would like to tip one and toast this esteemed group of folks... :cool:
You bet. Look for me at the Testo booth. ;)

[royc]

I'm not sure if a committee is the answer here, but since I dont insult anyone or do name calling it doesnt matter to me. The problem in here is a simple one, its called respect.

So now were forming a committee to do what we all should be doing in the first place, treat each other with respect. Its one thing to have a heated discussion face to face, and in the heat of the moment get carried away. But when one has to type in a forum, one has to think about what to write, and has plenty of time to retract anything offensive, before hitting the send button.

So the simple answer is before you hit the send button, read your post and make sure that its not offensive. I'm getting to old to play baby sitter for a bunch of imature adults, and though I apreciate being nominated have no interest of doing so, we should be able to use some common courtesy towards each other.

Also concerning spam, and we know who the offenders are, it may even be me at times cause I do paste a lot. But the trick is easy, dont reply to spam, and after a while the spammer will get tired of no response, and gets the message. Its something we do as Ham operators when we have that problem on the air, and it works.

I think anyone should be able to post their personal opinions, but if you cant do it in a mature manner, you need to do something else. We have so many other members that could contribute to this ARP forum, but they dont even want to come in here, cause the diatribe gets out of hand and insulting.

I'm looking forward to some fresh faces if we have the self control to make it happen.

Roy

[ga-hvac-tech]

Hmmm,

This comment is based on my personal beliefs:

My apologies to those that do not agree, but it is a free country so far.

As a Christian, I believe we are all sinners that are saved by God's grace. I have a lot of history I am not proud of, am thankful I was forgiven for, and have forgotten... I am also glad God forgot also or I would be worse than toast.

To me, God is a benevolent father, that is in Scripture also. HE has overlooked a lot of my stuff, and I am sure others at this site will agree privately with this statement in their lives.

I hope I can forgive and move on when (not if) I get a 'raw deal' due to this new job it appears I may serve in.

OK, I have said my peace. And yeah, I was supposed to be gone for the evening... but we all know this place is addictive... :eek:

[Dad]

Yeah, I have a feeling when they saw the numbers coming in and james and I up top, they decided to propose a revision. :rolleyes: LOL

This is what admin should not be doing. Changing the rules on the fly.
You set up a vote and a deadline. Now, how about sticking to it?

This is what gahvactech and a few others are complaining about.
Consistentcy.
EXAMPLE;
If a current member is banned, why show his status as simply a 'member' and not 'banned' like other members who are currently banned or past members who have been banned?
Doesn't exactly elicit feelings of equality when exceptions are made on behalf of longtime members while shorttimers get a poke in the whiskers.

Since you forget so easily and are trying your best to make this about me let me remind you about the above. Did you not post this??? That was a direct smear on their integrity. They are my friends and they have spent hours upon hours working for this site so you can bash them? Give me a break.

You may want to think about putting the shoe on the other foot here and see how you feel about it.


If I am elected to do so, I will monitor ARP in a very objective fashion.

I certainly hope so. In fact when this is over I will be the first one to congratulate you when you do.

Me having site powers is no secret. In fact I stepped back due to the time my business takes up and the years I served here have taken their toll on my family. If you want to knock that then here's your chance but I will not sit back and let you or anyone else throw mud or suggest my friends are crooked and change the rules as they see fit.


Tomorrow is another day and maybe this will be seen in a different light in the morning. Goodnight everyone. Sorry to everyone this offended.

[markettech]

I respect your opinion mark, but this is not a union shop where seniority is paramount to privilige.
If members are elected into this site by admin, a membership committee or whoever, then admin bears the responsibility of treating them as equals.
IMO, If they are treated differently, the integrity of the site and how it is managed undoubtedly will come into question.

You are correct in stating that this is not a union shop. It appears though, that you have lost sight of the fact that this is not a democratic government that must abide by a predetermined set of rules and is influenced by a majority vote of the populous.

HVAC-Talk is a privately owned and operated website. As such, the one's in charge of making the rules, coordinating the operation, and enforcing said rules do not have to justify anything to you, me, or any other member here.

I get the distinct impression that a few members here have forgotten that as a guest in someone else's "home", we follow the rules of that house. If we don't like the rules of the house, we get up and leave.......possible back to our own house.

As respectful visitors, we do not concern ourselves as to why our host has certain rules for us, which may not be enforced as heavily when "Uncle Bill" comes to visit, or possibly enforced with rigid uniformity when "Little Jimmy" gets dropped off for the day.....the rules of the house are what they are.

While a person with very little class and even less respect for the home owner's property may continue to badger them and demand explanations as to why the rules are not equally applied and enforced, most people understand, respect, and abide by the rules of the house.

I was upset about the perceived inconsistencies involve with James being banned as well. Instead of brazenly walking up to the front door of their home and pissing on their steps, I am actively pursuing channels to help bring about positive change.

[Collin]

The problem in here is a simple one, its called respect.

So now were forming a committee to do what we all should be doing in the first place, treat each other with respect. Its one thing to have a heated discussion face to face, and in the heat of the moment get carried away. But when one has to type in a forum, one has to think about what to write, and has plenty of time to retract anything offensive, before hitting the send button.

So the simple answer is before you hit the send button, read your post and make sure that its not offensive. I'm getting to old to play baby sitter for a bunch of imature adults, and though I apreciate being nominated have no interest of doing so, we should be able to use some common courtesy towards each other.


I think anyone should be able to post their personal opinions, but if you cant do it in a mature manner, you need to do something else. We have so many other members that could contribute to this ARP forum, but they dont even want to come in here, cause the diatribe gets out of hand and insulting.

I'm looking forward to some fresh faces if we have the self control to make it happen.

Roy

Great post Roy, it echos my feelings exactly.

[ozone drone]

1. James 3528
2. Geer
3. Marketech
4. bootlen
5. Fastfred

[chillbilly]

Since you forget so easily and are trying your best to make this about me let me remind you about the above. Did you not post this???
Yes

That was a direct smear on their integrity.
It was a criticism and the part about their motives was not fair and I apologize for that. As for the voting provisions for a banned member or special "read only" priviliges for banned members, I don't think they are fair and I believe they should be unilaterally the same for everyone who is elected to membership here.

They are my friends and they have spent hours upon hours working for this site so you can bash them? Give me a break.
Bash them? I'm not bashing them. Since this thread began, I have yet to see admin in here slapping my hands for having an opinion about how they run things. I have a great amount of respect for how this site has been run, managed and grown since I've been here, but that does not mean I have to like everything about it, does it?
Hell, my company would be dead in the water if I didn't have the guts and the skin to allow criticism, regardless of the amount of hard work I put forth.


You may want to think about putting the shoe on the other foot here and see how you feel about it.
Buddy, you don't know me or how many times I've worn that shoe, so let's not even go there.


I certainly hope so. In fact when this is over I will be the first one to congratulate you when you do.
Great. I have no interest in badmouthing this site because I think it's great.
The changes have been amazing and the information is gold. The people are fun for the most part but let's face it, we're not saving lives here.
It's supposed to be fun.
I would hope that I can still vent my disagreements without having to listen to a chronology of events about the founders of the site and a historical account of the members of the site and where they were when Kennedy was assasinated.


Me having site powers is no secret. In fact I stepped back due to the time my business takes up and the years I served here have taken their toll on my family.
If you want to knock that then here's your chance but I will not sit back and let you or anyone else throw mud or suggest my friends are crooked and change the rules as they see fit.
That's very honorable of you. I'm not knocking anyone's hard work or dedication. GWB is a dedicated president but he still endures criticism, doesn't he?? What's the big deal? Is the criticism too much to bear?
My criticisms, other than the one about the revision being a motive, are what they are. They may be incorrect, but admin hasn't yelled about me on this site ever for having an opinion. I can assure you it wasn't meant in a hateful tone and if it came across as hateful, you have my most humble apologies. Sincerely.

[chillbilly]

You are correct in stating that this is not a union shop. It appears though, that you have lost sight of the fact that this is not a democratic government that must abide by a predetermined set of rules and is influenced by a majority vote of the populous.

HVAC-Talk is a privately owned and operated website. As such, the one's in charge of making the rules, coordinating the operation, and enforcing said rules do not have to justify anything to you, me, or any other member here.

I get the distinct impression that a few members here have forgotten that as a guest in someone else's "home", we follow the rules of that house. If we don't like the rules of the house, we get up and leave.......possible back to our own house.

As respectful visitors, we do not concern ourselves as to why our host has certain rules for us, which may not be enforced as heavily when "Uncle Bill" comes to visit, or possibly enforced with rigid uniformity when "Little Jimmy" gets dropped off for the day.....the rules of the house are what they are.

While a person with very little class and even less respect for the home owner's property may continue to badger them and demand explanations as to why the rules are not equally applied and enforced, most people understand, respect, and abide by the rules of the house.

I was upset about the perceived inconsistencies involve with James being banned as well. Instead of brazenly walking up to the front door of their home and pissing on their steps, I am actively pursuing channels to help bring about positive change.


Can't really argue with any of that. In fact, it's perfect.
Let's face the facts. What good is a privately owned and managed site with it's own "house rules" without it's membership?
Site rules are in place. If they are modified for Uncle Bill while little Willie get's a poke in the whiskers, Uncle Chill will find another playpen.

[Collin]

Quick!

Somebody modify the rules!:rolleyes:

[markettech]

Can't really argue with any of that. In fact, it's perfect.
Let's face the facts. What good is a privately owned and managed site with it's own "house rules" without it's membership?
Site rules are in place. If they are modified for Uncle Bill while little Willie get's a poke in the whiskers, Uncle Chill will find another playpen.

If you do in fact leave (and I hope you don't)..........you'll be back.




- We all come back -

[oloenneker]

Here is my vote: It's not worth much!

1: Chillbilly
2: Geerair
3: RoyC
4: Acmanko
5: Sysint

I tried to make it fair all the way across, and as equal in partisanship as possible.

(I was tempted to vote for tink, but I just thought that was inflamitory...)

[The Penguin]

OK I get another vote since roboteuqe bowed out

I vote for Canark

we need some reasonable heads to control the cesspool

[dapapa]

I realize that I don't post very often, but I feel I should at least participate with this matter. This site is very informative, useful, fun and even stressful...but it still is the best I've seen around the net. I believe that if you don't understand the issues, then you shouldn't vote on them. This isn't the Pro Bowl nomination committee who turns it into a popularity contest, it's a chance for some of the members to step up and contribute constructively (hopefully) to the site. And for this I feel I should at least vote on who I feel make the most 'constructive' contributions to the site.

Don't get offended, but then again, it is the ARP forum :p

Good luck to all ...

ga-hvac-tech
chillbilly
James3684
royc
marktech

I would like to also note...btc is a tie for 5th ...

[tonys]

Hmmm,

This comment is based on my personal beliefs:

My apologies to those that do not agree, but it is a free country so far.

As a Christian, I believe we are all sinners that are saved by God's grace. I have a lot of history I am not proud of, am thankful I was forgiven for, and have forgotten... I am also glad God forgot also or I would be worse than toast.

To me, God is a benevolent father, that is in Scripture also. HE has overlooked a lot of my stuff, and I am sure others at this site will agree privately with this statement in their lives.

I hope I can forgive and move on when (not if) I get a 'raw deal' due to this new job it appears I may serve in.

OK, I have said my peace. And yeah, I was supposed to be gone for the evening... but we all know this place is addictive... :eek:

just a few follow-up questions:

a) can you prove that YOUR God exists;
b) who wrote those lovely scriptures? a group of MEN drink'n some wine? or 'by others'?
c) what does your post have to do with this simpleton-committee being discussed on THIS thread?

[mrs reb77]

After clarification, in that case, I vote for

Chilly, James, ga-hvac-tech, bootlen and robo (in that order if it matters?)

I cannot seem to edit that post (too long ago?) and since robo is not actually eligible (or accepting the nomination!) I would like to change my vote for him to Oloe. However, my vote for Boot still stands--I think he'd be a great addition no matter if he actually wants to do it or not.
So,
Here is my vote
Chilly, James, Ga-Hvac, Bootlen and Oloenneker

[tonys]

my vote:

1) jimbo-8675309
2) boot-tsie
3) bone-r-bill
4) GEER
5) Santa

[mrs reb77]

just a few follow-up questions:

a) can you prove that YOUR God exists;
b) who wrote those lovely scriptures? a group of MEN drink'n some wine? or 'by others'?
c) what does your post have to do with this simpleton-committee being discussed on THIS thread?

Hey, Tony! See c above!
Either contribute in a mature fashion or stay out. You just might be one of the problems this committee is being formed to address--your choice.

[mrs reb77]

my vote:

1) jimbo-8675309
2) boot-tsie
3) bone-r-bill
4) GEER
5) Santa

My point has been made I see.

[tonys]

Mr. A-N-A-L, no humor;

...just keep'n tabs on the Jesus-freaks, that's all.

[acmanko]

so Is anyone keeping count. who is winning?

[acmanko]

I have been doing some serious thinking and I came up with some letters to call our committee, CARP, which stands for committee against rectal posts.:o

[ga-hvac-tech]

just a few follow-up questions:

a) can you prove that YOUR God exists;
b) who wrote those lovely scriptures? a group of MEN drink'n some wine? or 'by others'?
c) what does your post have to do with this simpleton-committee being discussed on THIS thread?

HI Tony,

THX for the reply. You know it is said that the two things folks should not talk about is religion and politics... guess I either never heard that, or am too independent to listen... :confused::eek: And this is ARP: America, RELIGION, and Politics... It does seem to me that Christianity falls in the category of Religion the last time I checked... has that changed?

But on the subject of God and Christianity, I have spent a lot of time and effort to learn over many years. There was a time I was totally rejecting God (similar to Geer). I have made some choices about what I believe, and live there peacefully and joyfully now.

Having said that:

In all honesty, my post you reference was not written to start a debate about the credibility or lack thereof concerning the Christian faith. Each of us has made a decision on that subject, and lives with their choice.

I will not get into a debate on something that IMO is designed to be taken on faith.

Personally I do have faith in my God, and I have witnessed so many miracles that satisfy me, I am convinced. Others may or may not have witnessed God's hand as I have. To each their own.

So yes, I could answer your question, but no, I will not engage in the debate.

My suggestion: If you indeed are interested in 'seeking God with ALL your heart', read the Bible. If you ask me for leadership in finding God (with an open heart), I will help (I serve in a ministry at my Church doing just this--but only for folks that truely WANT God). If that is not a solution you are interested in, then there is not much I have for you. My apologies.

To be fair and clear: There was a debate last night about an issue. My post was written casually to a few that I know will understand what I was saying without getting in their face.

Hmmm, to address the last point you made (quoted above): Calling this 'board' simpleton is IMO a slap in the face of Admin, Editor, the mods, and Dave Lusker who all have really stepped out and worked hard to keep ARP a functional place for the folks that enjoy it. I will not take offense to your statement, rather let it go.

If you are offended either my Christian beliefs or my view on leadership or ARP, my apologies. If you have an issue with me, send me an Email. If you have an issue with leadership, send an Email to them.

Beyond that, I do hope you enjoy the forum(s). Have a GREAT one!

(PS--I am having some computer problems that may not be fixed quickly. If I do not respond to an Email soon, my apologies).

[markettech]

Will the the newly formed committee have the ability to ban people for straying off topic??..............:D

[bootlen]

They're trying to save it...not eliminate it.:cool:

[Mr Bill]

I personally don't go there enough to really be voting on this but as a member I was asked to vote,
so here goes. :D

James 3528
Ga-HVAC-Tech
Chilly
Bootlen
Andy Schoen

[Green Mountain]

Wow, Admin. what a nice and democratic thing to do. You can tell by the amount of posts that it is a good idea.

Now on to the election.

1. Mattm

2. RoboXtech (Markettech pointed out the Robo declined nomination. so this is for geeraire.)

3. Diceman

4. Cracker

5. Last but not least-- Fricking---James 5678 (I might have misspelled the numbers)


I'd watch a U-tube post in order to see these 5 at a round table discussion. Good luck, winners.:rolleyes:

[markettech]

Wow, Admin. what a nice and democratic thing to do. You can tell by the amount of posts that it is a good idea.

Now on to the election.

1. Mattm

2. Robotech

3. Diceman

4. Cracker

5. Last but not least-- Fricking---James 5678 (I might have misspelled the numbers)


I'd watch a U-tube post in order to see these 5 at a round table discussion. Good luck, winners.:rolleyes:


If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve;)

:eek:

[Admin]

Well:

Very eye opening....

To set the record straight…. It was me who banned James, for 2 weeks, as well as cracker.
It was me who removed their ban. I sent them both emails to this fact.
My choice.

I am human, make mistakes, people hate me, people love me.....Oh well.

I am tasked to run this website, within the rules set down by the editor.

Nowhere does it say anything about banning prerequisites, but this is being looked into for a change, so all out on the same level playing field.

I am doing my best to answer the membership emails and gripes about the forum ARP. Too much of my time is spent on this one particular forum.

The new committee will:
Go over the rules posted and make recommendations to me for any rules that they feel need to be changed. I will argue their case with the editor.

Warn members about breaking the rules with their post.

After this warning, the chairman will contact me to let me know what the committees’ decision is about the violator, if the rules violation still occurs.

As with any committee, with 5 members, being democratic, it will take a majority vote by this committee to do anything, so as the moderators and myself do, so not one personality is running the forum/site.

At anytime, any member can email me with their questions, just click the contact us link at the bottom of the page and the email comes to me.

I am, as well as the editor, and I’m sure the mods are reading this thread. I believe that this will work. We are just staying out of it to see how the membership thinks.

[glennac]

[quote=Admin;1573592]Well:



At anytime, any member can email me with their questions, just click the contact us link at the bottom of the page and the email comes to me.


A lot of us cannot use the "contact us" link to contact anyone. My yahoo email or something has never let me use the "contact us". All I get is an error message. Please include a "real" email address so that all of us can use it if we want to communicate with you. Thanks, Glenn

[Admin]

Thanks for bringing this up to me glennac8. My email is now in my profile also.

[Dad]

Yes

It was a criticism and the part about their motives was not fair and I apologize for that. As for the voting provisions for a banned member or special "read only" priviliges for banned members, I don't think they are fair and I believe they should be unilaterally the same for everyone who is elected to membership here.

Bash them? I'm not bashing them. Since this thread began, I have yet to see admin in here slapping my hands for having an opinion about how they run things. I have a great amount of respect for how this site has been run, managed and grown since I've been here, but that does not mean I have to like everything about it, does it?
Hell, my company would be dead in the water if I didn't have the guts and the skin to allow criticism, regardless of the amount of hard work I put forth.


Buddy, you don't know me or how many times I've worn that shoe, so let's not even go there.


Great. I have no interest in badmouthing this site because I think it's great.
The changes have been amazing and the information is gold. The people are fun for the most part but let's face it, we're not saving lives here.
It's supposed to be fun.
I would hope that I can still vent my disagreements without having to listen to a chronology of events about the founders of the site and a historical account of the members of the site and where they were when Kennedy was assasinated.


That's very honorable of you. I'm not knocking anyone's hard work or dedication. GWB is a dedicated president but he still endures criticism, doesn't he?? What's the big deal? Is the criticism too much to bear?
My criticisms, other than the one about the revision being a motive, are what they are. They may be incorrect, but admin hasn't yelled about me on this site ever for having an opinion. I can assure you it wasn't meant in a hateful tone and if it came across as hateful, you have my most humble apologies. Sincerely.



Very gracious of you. Thank you.

[jrbenny]

A lot of us cannot use the "contact us" link to contact anyone. My yahoo email or something has never let me use the "contact us". All I get is an error message. Please include a "real" email address so that all of us can use it if we want to communicate with you. Thanks, Glenn
Place your cursor over the 'Contact Us' link. A link with 'mailto:' followed by an email address should appear in your status bar at the bottom of your web browser. You just have to type that email address in your 'To:' line at Yahoo mail (or whichever one you like to use).

If your status bar isn't enabled, click 'view', status bar from your browser's menu bar.

The hyperlink is an instruction for your computer to start your default mail client and start a new email with that email address as the recipient.

[bootlen]

I am going to walk very softly here as I am not a regular contributor to this forum:

My feeling is the situation relating to James benching should not have been allowed to escalate to the level that it did in the first place - but who am I?........Nobody.

James has been a member of this site for a very, very long time. My belief is seniority should have its privileges.

I don't think it is right to afford a new-comer, who has yet to prove him or herself, the same amount of latitude a 6 or 7 year veteran is given and vise-verse.

James was banned. The ban has been lifted. Would you have rather the Admin dude said James is banned indefinitely rather than saying it was for 2 weeks? To me, it boils down to semantics.

I do get the feeling however that if the Admindude would have chosen the first route, no one would be whining (for lack of a better word) about his ban being lifted so soon.

I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess Admin is a flesh and blood human being - subjected to many of the same human emotions the rest of us are. Do you suppose it could it be possible both sides over reacted in the heat of the moment and the lifting of the ban is a reflection of this?



Agreed. This is a privately owned site and owes allegiance to NO ONE. Take it or leave it.

Now if what they do helps the site or if it hurts the site, it is theirs do handle as they see fit. If one cannot live with that, one is not forced to remain. We are free to come and go as we wish.

By extension, if they want to ban someone for using commas rather than semicolons, they have the right and authority to do so. And if they want to ban someone for life one day and allow them back in the next, that also is the owner's prerogative. Such is life in our society.

Why is that so hard for some to deal with?

[tonys]

I like this site - with or without thought police.

For example: for those 'folks' that drove in the short-bus to school everyday (e.g. boot-tsie), they're able to collect some committee votes, thus justifying their 45,000 post existance.


ya'know - stuff like that.

[k-fridge]

I like this site - with or without thought police.

For example: for those 'folks' that drove in the short-bus to school everyday (e.g. boot-tsie), they're able to collect some committee votes, thus justifying their 45,000 post existance.


ya'know - stuff like that.

Oooohhhh Weeee....somebody has an attitude.:D

[tonys]

they changed the regular coffee to Folders this a.m.

...

[bootlen]

I like this site - with or without thought police.

For example: for those 'folks' that drove in the short-bus to school everyday (e.g. boot-tsie), they're able to collect some committee votes, thus justifying their 45,000 post existance.


ya'know - stuff like that.

Well, if we hadn't driven it, you'd have had to walk.

Even then, you learned nothing.

[sysint]

Here is my vote: It's not worth much!
........5: Sysint
I tried to make it fair all the way across, and as equal in partisanship as possible.
........

That's well a compliment and not at the same time. Thanks for consideration. Sounds like a time consuming affair actually. I'll give credit where due.

[bootlen]

Oooohhhh Weeee....somebody has an attitude.:D

Want a good laugh?

Ask tony what he does. He's VERY proud of it.

[tonys]

uhhh - Is that Gomer-Pyle look-a-like in that photo really you?

[k-fridge]

Want a good laugh?

Ask tony what he does. He's VERY proud of it.


http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=1573710&posted=1#post1573710

[bootlen]

uhhh - Is that Gomer-Pyle look-a-like in that photo really you?


Yep. And your little black suit is becoming to you as well.

[markettech]

Agreed. This is a privately owned site and owes allegiance to NO ONE. Take it or leave it.

Now if what they do helps the site or if it hurts the site, it is theirs do handle as they see fit. If one cannot live with that, one is not forced to remain. We are free to come and go as we wish.

By extension, if they want to ban someone for using commas rather than semicolons, they have the right and authority to do so. And if they want to ban someone for life one day and allow them back in the next, that also is the owner's prerogative. Such is life in our society.

Why is that so hard for some to deal with?

My kick at the cat:

We live in a society today that does not emphasise respect for others, personal self-control, or discipline.

I want it now - I'll get it now. No money - no big deal.
I need to keep up with the Jones' - I don't save, go to the bank and take out a loan - approval in less than 15 minutes.
I don't approve of what someone does - I'm not walking away, force HIM to stop and conform to my wishes.
I get angry with you - I'm hiring an attorney to sue your pants off (doesn't matter if its justifiable or not)
I have no time to teach my children morals and values - got a job and my own life to worry about.
I don't believe in God - don't you dare tell me Merry Christmas or put up a tree, I don't want to hear it.
Someone doesn't do things the way I would or think the way I do - I think they're idiots, losers, morons, etc. and I have the God given right to say so.
I won't take NO for an answer - If I want it - I will acquire it by any means necessary.
I gave you my word - well I changed my mind - I HAVE RIGHTS YOU KNOW.
If I want to do it - I will do it, no matter what the consequences to those around me.I could go on and on, but there is a key element that seems to shine through here: "I".

Our societal focus is now about me, what I want, what I think, what I feel, what I-I-I...............Oh, you have preferences, values, and ideas - too effin bad:mad:

THAT is why it is so hard to understand............it has to do with someone elses preferences......and THAT, my friend, is a foreign concept to more and more individuals these days.

[tonys]

Yep. And your little black suit is becoming to you as well.

did you ever attend one of those Jesus-Camps grow'n up?

if so, did that old crazy lady yell at you?
(yell'n about burn'n in hell, and nice stuff like that)

[bootlen]

did you ever attend one of those Jesus-Camps grow'n up?

if so, did that old crazy lady yell at you?
(yell'n about burn'n in hell, and nice stuff like that)


Nope. You?

[tonys]

Sometimes - I wish I had.

[Mr Bill]

For example: for those 'folks' that drove in the short-bus to school everyday (e.g. boot-tsie), they're able to collect some committee votes, thus justifying their 45,000 post existance.
ya'know - stuff like that.

You know I personally have friends that have kids that are mentally challenged and I am about dang tired of ******** using this "Short Bus" thing as an example and if I were a Mod you would be having a "short" vacation, it just not right period to use this in "any" example, sorry but this hits close to home for me and I am sure many others, get a life and find another example.

[tonys]

live?

as in LiveR?

...I did some damage to my liver last night - hit the 12-pack 'hard'.

[Mr Bill]

Thanks for the correction, now why don't you correct your attitude?

[coordinatesales]

Since Robo has declined, I'll modify my vote as well. It won't let me edit my original so here is the revised version.

Bootlen
Geerari
Oloenekker
James
GA-HVAC

Glad I'm not the one sifting through 15 pages of replys (so far) to try to count the few votes and changes mixed in with the off-topic stuff.:o

[Dad]

Thanks for the correction, now why don't you correct your attitude?

I'll side with Bill on this one. Comments on this subject, kidding or not, have been dealt with membership infractions and sanctions.

Tony.. don't know you from Sam Adam but that comment won't fly.

[bootlen]

Silence...






















































is loud.

[k-fridge]

I hear crickets....

[tonys]

different strokes, for different folks - I guess.

some people are 'offended' by short-school-bus references,
others are 'offended' by religious fundamentalists ranting about their lovely 'faith' and 'scriptures'.

all while reminding ME about those wonderful priests that didle the kids behind closed doors, and use this wonderful and good institution to hide behind, and avoid any prosecution.

I'm 'offended' by that stuff, but I don't complain like a little bi'atch when I read about the fundies on this board - instead, I actually laugh out loud!

[tonys]

I hear crickets....

then - you may want to get your hearing checked.

[mrs reb77]

Dude, you are weird. You make no sense. This is a voting thread. If you want to complain about everything ARP start your own. Or, better yet, just go away. There is a big difference in the two things you just referenced and someone with a minor portion of intelligence should be able to see that.

[markettech]

Dude, you are weird. You make no sense. This is a voting thread. If you want to complain about everything ARP start your own. Or, better yet, just go away. There is a big difference in the two things you just referenced and someone with a minor portion of intelligence should be able to see that.

Let the poor fella alone....Mom probably rewarded him with computer time for cleaning his room and taking out the trash - he wants to make the most of it.

Once he's old enough to ride his bike down to the skate park and hang out with his buds, you'll never hear from him again.:rolleyes:

[ga-hvac-tech]

You know I personally have friends that have kids that are mentally challenged and I am about dang tired of ******** using this "Short Bus" thing as an example and if I were a Mod you would be having a "short" vacation, it just not right period to use this in "any" example, sorry but this hits close to home for me and I am sure many others, get a life and find another example.

Hi Bill,

You know, I drove one of those 'short busses' to pay my way through college. You know where the 'bus barn' is over there off Gessner Rd... :) There were/are some really good kids on those busses. They have a lot more common sense than a few of our posters... wonder if sometimes our mind gets in the way of our life?

THX for the memory.

[ga-hvac-tech]

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Simple word, even easy to spell. Wonder if we could get a discussion started as to what it means and how to live it?

[bootlen]

Couldn't hurt.

[k-fridge]

Once he's old enough to ride his bike

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Peeweedvdcover.jpg

[ga-hvac-tech]

And folks fussed at me for campaigning...read on:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=145748

LOL

Seems this ARP board is the most popular thread since Chilly's KA club.

[Admin]

Votes Cast, as of 8/2/07, at 7:20pm EST.

Chillbilly:
1-chillbilly
2-james 3528
3-ga-hvac-tech
4-mrs reb77
5-scrogdog

Sline-dog:
1-Scrogdog
2-Robo
3-Carnak
4-Collin
5-James 3528

mrs reb77:
1-Chillbilly
2-James 3528
3-ga-hvac-tech,
4-bootlen
5-robo 5-oloenneker

Twilli3967:
1-Chillbilly
2-Robo 2-James 3528
3-ga-hvac-tech
4-k-fridge
5-acefurnacefixer ……..if they are a member in good standing………

Mstrav:
1- Chillbilly
2-Robo
3-ga-hvac-tech
4-james 3528
5-markettech

glennac8:
1- chillbilly,
2-glennac8
3-James 3528
4-ga-hvac-tech
5-retired btc

Markettech:
1-Andy Schoen
2-Chillbilly
3-Twilli3967
4-James 3528
5-Glennac8

The Penguin:
1- SPOTTS
2-Collin
3-James 3528
4-Diceman
5-Robo 5-Carnak





Carnak:
1- Robo
2-geerair
3-bootlen
4-scrogdog
5-royc

ga-hvac-tech:
1- Chillbilly
2-James 3528
3-mrs reb77
4-Bootlen
5-Andy Shoen

K fridge:
1-Chillbilly
2-Markettech
3-Oloenekker
4-Collin
5-Bootlen

Chadcar:
1- oloenekker
2-Diceman
3-Chillbilly
4-ga-hvac-tech
5-rogerk

Acmanko:

I have no idea who you are voting for. Only vote for a person one time only.

MadeinUSA:
1- James 3528
2-Ga-HVAC-Tech
3-Chilly
4-Bootlen
5-Andy Schoen

Chucko615:
1-James 3528
2-Geerair
3-Robo
4-Glennac8
5-Oloenekker

The Doctor:
1-Chillbilly
2-Bootlen
3-James 3528
4-Oloenneker
5-Robot


Bootlen:
1- Andy Schoen
2-James 3528
3-GAHVAC-Tech
4-Robo
5-The Doctor

Scrogdog:
1- James 3528
2-Geerair
3-Robo 3- Chillbilly
4-Oloenneker
5-Royc

Coordinatesales:
1- Bootlen
2-Geerair
3-Oloenekker
4-James 3528
5-Robo 5-ga-hvac-tech

Sysint:
1- Geer
2-Andy Shoen

Andy Shoen:
1- James 3528
2-Ga-HVAC-Tech
3-Chillbilly
4-Bootlen
5-Geerair


Smokin68:
1- chillbilly
2-ga-hvac-tech
3-GEERAIR
4-Oloenneker
5-bootlen

Ozone drone:
1-James 3528
2-Geerair
3-Marketech
4-bootlen
5-Fastfred

Oleonneker:
1-Chillbilly
2-Geerair
3-RoyC
4-Acmanko
5-Sysint

Dapapa:
1-ga-hvac-tech
2-chillbilly
3-James 3528
4-royc
5-marktech


Tonys:
1-jimbo-8675309 who?
2-bootlen
3-bone-r-bill who?
4-GEERAIR
5-Santa who?

Mrbillpro:
1-James 3528
2-Ga-HVAC-Tech
3-Chillbilly
4-Bootlen
5-Andy Schoen

Beencool:
1-Mattm
2-geerair
3-Diceman
4-Cracker
5-James 3528

[Admin]

As of 8/2/07 at 7:20 pm EST:

James 3528: 20
Chillbilly: 17
Ga-hvac-tech: 13
Bootlen: 13
Geerair: 11

Oloenneker: 8
Andy Shoen: 6
Markettech: 4
Scrogdog:3
Collin: 3
Glennac8: 3
Diceman: 3
Royc: 4
mrs reb77:2
Carnak:2

K fridge:1
The Doctor: 1
Fastfred: 1
Rogerk: 1
Mattm: 1
Cracker: 1
Retired btc: 1
Twilli3967: 1
Spots: 1
Acmanko: 1
Sysint: 1

[Pagan]

Personally I Select the following in order:

James3528
Ga hvac
ChilliBilly
Oleneker, Benign Liberalism and Balance:cool:
Ms.Reb 77

Let me also state I belive this is a great Idea!

[chillbilly]

If you do in fact leave (and I hope you don't)..........you'll be back.




- We all come back -

LOL Oh, I'm not that easy to get rid of unless I fall into another bout of banishment. :D :D

The point I was trying to make is that your speech about the site and it's management is a stance that is very rigid.
If you were invited to your examples' home with a bunch of other guests and everyone suddenly started pouring beer on your head while allowing other guests in their home to join in, would you feel welcome? If everyone was allowed to piss on the front porch except you, would you wonder why?

Does this site, it's sponsors and it's workers survive to be anything more than a face in the crowd without it's membership?
The preacher ain't the church...it's the flock that makes the chuch.

I happen to feel it's very important for everyone to be treated equally on this site and elsewhere. Your stance is that there is no room for equality when the powers that be decide otherwise??
What say you?

[Admin]

This thread is for the voting of the ARP committee. Please all, keep it this way.

[geerair]

Damn, I figured I would receive three votes at best.

I am not the right person for this job as I am an extreme proponent of free speech. Any sort of body that sits in judgement of speech issues or has the purpose of limiting speech is contrary to my nature.

Personally, I had rather see ARP close its doors immediately than see it wither away into a pale, polite, conforming shadow of its former self, suitable for family viewing but void of interest.


I realize this is a private board and that the authority rightly rests with the owners to make of it what they will. I have enjoyed my years here and appreciate the forum the owners have provided. I also appreciate the efforts of the moderators and feel that they have for the most part done a superb job riding herd on the wildly disparate set of personalities that inhabit this forum.

Anyway, I thank those who voted for me but for the reasons stated, I decline.

I also will not be posting any votes as I do not support this action.

Again, thanks.

[chillbilly]

He makes a good point.

[scrogdog]

A damn good one.

*applause*

[hvactech13]

WOW!! I'm gone for a few weeks and I get back to see this?:eek:

Well I guess I will give my top votes on this one and then start catching up on everything I've missed.

Chillbilly
Ga-hvac-tech
Geerair
Oloenneker

Since geerair doesn't want any part of it I guess that vote doesn't really count so now I'll have to ponder 2 more likely choices to give the group diversity. I'll vote later for those ones.:D

[Mr Bill]

I am not the right person for this job as I am an extreme proponent of free speech. Any sort of body that sits in judgment of speech issues or has the purpose of limiting speech is contrary to my nature.

I know there is no silver bullet resolution to ARP, I just don't know why they just close it to the general public so the whole world can't view it and let the guys have a free for all with no Mods or committee sitting in Judgment, this is the only way this will ever work were everyone is happy, and use the committee that was or is going to sit in judgment, to review the folks that want to apply for ARP. anyway I am sure my idea will go over like a lead balloon. :D

[mark42202]

Well, I have been outta the loop for a little while due to work load, but I would like an opportunity to throw my .02 (if that, lol) in...

I would like to vote for (in no particular order):

Mrs Reb
Oloenneker
Chilly
Smokin68
Myself:)

[Ammonianite]

I cast my vote:

1. James3528
2. Cracker
3. ga-hvac-tech
4. marketech
5. chillbilly

Thanks.

[scrogdog]

As of 8/2/07 at 7:20 pm EST:

James 3528: 20
Chillbilly: 17
Ga-hvac-tech: 13
Bootlen: 13
Geerair: 11

Oloenneker: 8
Andy Shoen: 6
Markettech: 4
Scrogdog:3
Collin: 3
Glennac8: 3
Diceman: 3
Royc: 4
mrs reb77:2
Carnak:2

K fridge:1
The Doctor: 1
Fastfred: 1
Rogerk: 1
Mattm: 1
Cracker: 1
Retired btc: 1
Twilli3967: 1
Spots: 1
Acmanko: 1
Sysint: 1

You forgot 3 votes for who?. I am sure that Whoville will be delighted.

You should smile more, Admin. :)

[scrogdog]

Damn, I figured I would receive three votes at best.

Nope, sorry, that would be me, Collin and Glennac8.

Oh yeah... and the legend. Dice.

Even though he never fraking posts here, I'd say that's sufficient reason to ride his ass for a year or so. ;)

[chillbilly]

LOL

He only comes in here when it's that time of the month.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Damn, I figured I would receive three votes at best.

I am not the right person for this job as I am an extreme proponent of free speech. Any sort of body that sits in judgement of speech issues or has the purpose of limiting speech is contrary to my nature.

Personally, I had rather see ARP close its doors immediately than see it wither away into a pale, polite, conforming shadow of its former self, suitable for family viewing but void of interest.


I realize this is a private board and that the authority rightly rests with the owners to make of it what they will. I have enjoyed my years here and appreciate the forum the owners have provided. I also appreciate the efforts of the moderators and feel that they have for the most part done a superb job riding herd on the wildly disparate set of personalities that inhabit this forum.

Anyway, I thank those who voted for me but for the reasons stated, I decline.

I also will not be posting any votes as I do not support this action.

Again, thanks.

Geer, I gotta tell you: I did not think I would get more than a handful of votes either. And as I saw this thing unfold, I am thinking 'what the h*ll did I get into?' But I was also the one that stepped forward and prodded TPTB to 'do something'. And now they have and I chose to go ahead and carry the torch. I may learn/grow from this, and I may crash and burn... But I am going to give it all I have (can). If you want to re-consider, I am ready to extend an olive branch to you. If not, then it appears Ollie will be next in line.

One thing I have already learned (and it was a lesson that should have been done earlier) is to make peace with you libs. We may be on the opposite side of the isle, but we are all people.

Have a Great one Geer, and THX for your honesty!

[sline-dawg]

Scrog.....Robo.....Carnak......Collin.....James... ..

There's my 5.....:o


Robin is a non runner..... so sub Gruntly.....:)

[texas cooler]

James
Oloeneker
Glennac8
chillbilly
Ga-hvac-tech

[Andy Schoen]

Damn, I figured I would receive three votes at best.

I am not the right person for this job as I am an extreme proponent of free speech. Any sort of body that sits in judgement of speech issues or has the purpose of limiting speech is contrary to my nature.

I don't look at this committee as limiting free speech as much as enforcing a reasonable amount of civility. Believe and state what you may, but be civil about it. Hey, I nominated you because I think you have expressed your misguided lib views, for the most part, in a civil and intelligent manner. ;)


Personally, I had rather see ARP close its doors immediately than see it wither away into a pale, polite, conforming shadow of its former self, suitable for family viewing but void of interest.

Agreed. But I find the HVAC-Talk ARP section to be at this point reasonably civil, at least when compared to some of the anarchists-lunatics-terrorists Usenet groups.


I realize this is a private board and that the authority rightly rests with the owners to make of it what they will. I have enjoyed my years here and appreciate the forum the owners have provided. I also appreciate the efforts of the moderators and feel that they have for the most part done a superb job riding herd on the wildly disparate set of personalities that inhabit this forum.


I figure Admin is getting pressure from the Penton Media legal eagles to distance themselves from inflammatory postings that might offend some sensitive person or group that might file suit. Damn those lawyers. :mad: Give statutory control to some committee that has the authority to beat on members who are not being civil in the HVAC-Talk ARP sandbox, and Penton has a defensible legal shield.

If you need advise in your new role, you can count on me. :p

[ga-hvac-tech]

I don't look at this committee as limiting free speech as much as enforcing a reasonable amount of civility. Believe and state what you may, but be civil about it. Hey, I nominated you because I think you have expressed your misguided lib views, for the most part, in a civil and intelligent manner. ;)

Agreed. But I find the HVAC-Talk ARP section to be at this point reasonably civil, at least when compared to some of the anarchists-lunatics-terrorists Usenet groups.

I figure Admin is getting pressure from the Penton Media legal eagles to distance themselves from inflammatory postings that might offend some sensitive person or group that might file suit. Damn those lawyers. :mad: Give statutory control to some committee that has the authority to beat on members who are not being civil in the HVAC-Talk ARP sandbox, and Penton has a defensible legal shield.

If you need advise in your new role, you can count on me. :p

Andy, THX for your post!

This is IMO one of the best posts I have read about what this board is about and what is should do.

Yeah life would be GREAT if we had no boundaries or borders. But this is not the wild west anymore... Kinda glad it is not, because I an not tuff enough to be a successful gunslinger... whoops, that is someone's name...

I realize I come on like a herd of buffaloes sometimes, but when it is all said and done, all I really want is a level playing field with mutual respect shown both ways... and yeah, I am as guilty as anyone for not walking in the shoes I made. But how many of us can truely say we never stepped in it and tracked it inside...

I think it is just human nature to need a corral to bounce around in (boundaries). That is all the board is about IMO.

Lets see if we can make good on this freedom we have been given here.

And Geer, even though you and I have differences, you are welcome on the board with me (a$$uming I am even elected).

[rscamaro]

Just passin through and feel like I got hit by a tractor with this thread. My vote...

James 3528
Ga-HVAC-Tech
Chilly
Bootlen
Mrsreb77

...Ron

[scrogdog]

I'll get roasted for this.

Anyone who actually wants this job is the wrong person for it.

Fire away!

I'd like to see Geer and Robo here more than ever! Though, I understand both people's stance and very much and respect it.

[markettech]

LOL Oh, I'm not that easy to get rid of unless I fall into another bout of banishment. :D :D

The point I was trying to make is that your speech about the site and it's management is a stance that is very rigid.
If you were invited to your examples' home with a bunch of other guests and everyone suddenly started pouring beer on your head while allowing other guests in their home to join in, would you feel welcome? If everyone was allowed to piss on the front porch except you, would you wonder why?

Does this site, it's sponsors and it's workers survive to be anything more than a face in the crowd without it's membership?
The preacher ain't the church...it's the flock that makes the chuch.

I happen to feel it's very important for everyone to be treated equally on this site and elsewhere. Your stance is that there is no room for equality when the powers that be decide otherwise??
What say you?

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=145768 ;)

[Admin]

Hmm,

Interesting comments......

Just want to set the record straight here, incase there is any doubt. The reason for this committee is to police its own.
Yes, the committee will not have any powers such as banning, but they will be able to "warn" a member about a "rules" violation.
Then, if the rules violator still doesn't straighten their act up, the committee will contact me to see about doing what they recommend.
Key words here, "rules violation", not that you don't agree with them, or arguing, etc. And remember, its to be "relaxed" rules, in this forum.
Now for the rules, as I said earlier, maybe the committee will "want" to change some, maybe not...

Andy said it best:
"I don't look at this committee as limiting free speech as much as enforcing a reasonable amount of civility. Believe and state what you may, but be civil about it."

I am sorry to see that some of the members don't like the idea, or are bowing out, but that is their prerogative.

So, there is still time to vote. After the voting ends, I will email all the winners Sunday for their answer to see if they are willing to run with this.

And for you scrogdog........:)

[ga-hvac-tech]

I'll get roasted for this.

Anyone who actually wants this job is the wrong person for it.

Fire away!

I'd like to see Geer and Robo here more than ever! Though, I understand both people's stance and very much and respect it.

No Scrog, I am not going to blast or flame you...

Only that my fundamental personality is to either poop or get off the bucket. So this time I choose to poop... And yeah, I know I am full of it... but my eyes are still blue... :cool:

What I am determined to do is the best I can. It will be fun, and I am sure I will learn something. If I get voted down, I will learn something also. OK, I have said my peace.

[chillbilly]

I agree. I don't really want a committee but if it is something that happens, I'll gladly help if elected.

[Andy Schoen]

I'll get roasted for this.

Anyone who actually wants this job is the wrong person for it.

Fire away!
The person who really wants this job has plenty time to spend posting, and may not have a real job. :p

[sline-dawg]

The person who really wants this job has plenty time to spend posting, and may not have a real job. :p


Make that two.......:eek:

[DocHVAC]

Here's my $.02 for what its worth because I don't spend too much time here, you will see by my comments why.
James NO (like having the fox guard the hen house)
ga-hvac-tech NO (too religious)
bootlen NO (too military)

If geer is dropping out
here's my new list:
acmanko (liberal view)
royc (keep a level head view)
mrsreb (right wing view)
carnak (Canuck view)
chillbilly (long winded view)

Now I'm going back to General Discussion

[RoBoTeq]

You bet. Look for me at the Testo booth. ;)

H-Talk convention has booths?

[chillbilly]

H-Talk convention has booths?

LOL There won't be any? Well then, look for me at the Hot Dog stand.:D

[RoBoTeq]

I'd just like to thank all of those who had confidence in me to be able to take on the immense responsibility of helping to babysit this forum; Thank you.

For those who don't know it, the problem with my being on two committees stemmed from the tyrranical leaders of this forum thinking I should do twice the work for the same pay. I demande twice my pay for being on two committees. The cheap money grubbers here said; "no way, your pay stays the same".

I really don't think it would have killed them to pay me twice my current wages, but they did not agree. This is the real reason I will not be overseeing this forum like a hawk overseas the mice in the field. Adieu.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I'd just like to thank all of those who had confidence in me to be able to take on the immense responsibility of helping to babysit this forum; Thank you.

For those who don't know it, the problem with my being on two committees stemmed from the tyrranical leaders of this forum thinking I should do twice the work for the same pay. I demande twice my pay for being on two committees. The cheap money grubbers here said; "no way, your pay stays the same".

I really don't think it would have killed them to pay me twice my current wages, but they did not agree. This is the real reason I will not be overseeing this forum like a hawk overseas the mice in the field. Adieu.

Yeah: 0+0=0... :D

[oloenneker]

As of 8/2/07 at 7:20 pm EST:

James 3528: 20
Chillbilly: 17
Ga-hvac-tech: 13
Bootlen: 13
Geerair: 11

Oloenneker: 8
Andy Shoen: 6
Markettech: 4
Scrogdog:3
Collin: 3
Glennac8: 3
Diceman: 3
Royc: 4
mrs reb77:2
Carnak:2

K fridge:1
The Doctor: 1
Fastfred: 1
Rogerk: 1
Mattm: 1
Cracker: 1
Retired btc: 1
Twilli3967: 1
Spots: 1
Acmanko: 1
Sysint: 1

Wow, I am amazed that anyone voted for me.... Here I thought everyone thought I was a knuckle head...

[markettech]

Wow, I am amazed that anyone voted for me.... Here I thought everyone thought I was a knuckle head...


Guess it proves you can fool some of the people some of the time.....:D

[Collin]

Oloenneker
Andy Shoen
Markettech
Scrogdog
Royc

[ga-hvac-tech]

Wow, I am amazed that anyone voted for me.... Here I thought everyone thought I was a knuckle head...

Naah, you da repo man... :cool:

I was blown away that I got more than a few. I figured maybe 5 tops. Looks like some of us will get an education in what the mods go through... And I wonder if the next official mod may come from our ranks??? Seems it would give Admin and Editor the ability to watch over us for a while and see if anyone has 'the right stuff'. Now having the magic button? Not sure I want that one.

[RoBoTeq]

Wow, I am amazed that anyone voted for me.... Here I thought everyone thought I was a knuckle head...

We do. There is one opening on the committee for a knucklehead.

[RoBoTeq]

You potential ARP Committee members better start getting serious;

This ain't no party,
This ain't no disco,
This ain't no fooling around.

[markettech]

We do. There is one opening on the committee for a knucklehead.


Yeah Oloe, it opened up again right after Robo decided to turn down the position.......:D

[geerair]

I don't look at this committee as limiting free speech as much as enforcing a reasonable amount of civility. Believe and state what you may, but be civil about it. Enforcing standards of civility can be seen as limiting free speech. I also see civility as quite subjective.




Hey, I nominated you because I think you have expressed your misguided lib views, for the most part, in a civil and intelligent manner. ;) Well, I guess we'll just have to consider my aversion to serving on this committee a misguided lib view. ;)




If you need advise in your new role, you can count on me. :pI would regard your advice as invaluable if not always applicable to a lib. ;)

[RoBoTeq]

Yeah Oloe, it opened up again right after Robo decided to turn down the position.......:D

I would have filled the @$$hole spot, not the knucklehead spot.

[oloenneker]

I would have filled the @$$hole spot, not the knucklehead spot.

According to popular demand, that spot will most likely be handed to James 3528....:) :p

[bootlen]

Enforcing standards of civility can be seen as limiting free speech. I also see civility as quite subjective.



Well, I guess we'll just have to consider my aversion to serving on this committee a misguided lib view. ;)



I would regard your advice as invaluable if not always applicable to a lib. ;)

You are making some really good points, geer. But that is why there will be 5 and not just 1 on the "committee" (I hate that word). Also, the "committee" will only make recommendations to those who make the final decision, as I understand it. So it will all be filtered before a decision is made.

You may think I am joking but I would feel if better if you would reconsider leaving your hat in the ring.

[Green Mountain]

We do. There is one opening on the committee for a knucklehead.

As a matter of fact...... to be on the ARP committee that is a prerequisite.:D

[bootlen]

As a matter of fact...... to be on the ARP committee that is a prerequisite.:D

A-a-h. So THAT's why I got about 13 more votes than I expected.

[tonys]

...one more time - call it a re-vote:

1-James 3528
2-geerair
3-bootlen
4-scrogdog
5-Diceman

[scrogdog]

Enforcing standards of civility can be seen as limiting free speech. I also see civility as quite subjective.

To me this illustrates the exact reason that you should serve. After all, all you'll really be doing is giving your opinion on things. You would not be the type to argue for censure... exactly the opposite.

How do you figure that the committee doesn't need that? You need to be the potential dissenting voice (perhaps alone or in concert with other members, who knows? - but that is more or less irrelevent) that PREVENTS unfair censure.

If you are against unfair censure, fight for it bro. :)

[bootlen]

Exactly, Scrog.

[acmanko]

The only problem I see with 5 is that on anygiven day there is not really that many people who utilize the part of the forum, which is why I made the thread Democracy in action on the GD forum. It was more of an attempt to get more people involved.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Enforcing standards of civility can be seen as limiting free speech. I also see civility as quite subjective.

Well, I guess we'll just have to consider my aversion to serving on this committee a misguided lib view. ;)

I would regard your advice as invaluable if not always applicable to a lib. ;)

Liberal... or rebel??? :rolleyes: If the latter, you and I have more in common than you may want to admit... :eek: I guess we all makes mistakes in character judgements; I figured you for more backbone than this... But we all have been wrong.

[acmanko]

personally, I am relieve that I have garnered only one vote. It means I have been successful in my endeavors.:cool:

[coordinatesales]

I wish Geer would reconsider too. I rarely agree with him on much of anything but I voted for him because I've seen him have debates without getting into name calling, he can make good arguments and I figured he would be a champion of free speech. He's earned my respect as have the others I have voted for.

If geer reconsiders, he still has my vote but if not, I'll change it to acmanko.

[coordinatesales]

personally, I am relieve that I have garnered only one vote. It means I have been successful in my endeavors.:cool:

Too funny.....Our posts crossed in the ether and I just voted for you!

[glennac]

Too funny.....Our posts crossed in the ether and I just voted for you!

How much was the pay off?:D :D :D

[BigJon3475]

Andy Schoen, Chillbilly, Geerair, James, Glennac



I Tried to have a representation of the amount of people that tend to be on each side. If it was politics only 4 conservative views to 1 liberal view. Kinda hard to have an actual representation. Almost wish you could have more votes. I could easily switch out Carnak with one of the above also. But I'm sticking with original votes.

[RoBoTeq]

To me this illustrates the exact reason that you should serve. After all, all you'll really be doing is giving your opinion on things. You would not be the type to argue for censure... exactly the opposite.

How do you figure that the committee doesn't need that? You need to be the potential dissenting voice (perhaps alone or in concert with other members, who knows? - but that is more or less irrelevent) that PREVENTS unfair censure.

If you are against unfair censure, fight for it bro. :)

Geer can't decide which hand to use to zip up his pants without googling for help, how can he be expected to work on a committee? Geer is also not exactly your "team" player type.

[Mr Bill]

Geer can't decide which hand to use to zip up his pants without googling for help,.

Man I had a good one but never mind. :D

[RoBoTeq]

Yes but you have to give him some credit he knows how to zip up others pants without any googling. :eek: :D :p

Define "googling":eek:

[glennac]

Geer can't decide which hand to use to zip up his pants without googling for help, how can he be expected to work on a committee? Geer is also not exactly your "team" player type.

Robo, I agree with you on geer. He is not a team player. He will not give an opposing view point a fair hearing or be objective about anything. Nothing said to him will be heard and he will defend a flawed case to death because he is not able to admit there is a valid argument on anything that will hurt his view on issues. Nobody is able to debate with him because he will never yield the smallest valid point. He ignores what you say and never yields an inch. Now I have nothing personal against geer and wish him well but he will clogged up and argue forever on any committee. Oloe would be a good balance to put on the committee for the liberal view point. He is fair and above all honnest.

[Mr Bill]

Define "googling":eek:


Man Robin did you add something to my response I don't see were I said that. :eek:

[Carnak]

Carnak you old devil. You like Black Sabbath and used anarchy-net. Yea, brother! :)

What do you mean, went South? Dropped off the South pole in to oblivion? :D

When I posted there a lot it was all the hvac folk getting along, fending off a few trolls and giving the DIY and HOs a hard time. I made a lot of good contacts there.

In my opinion, it started going downhill with the politics, it started to get quite polarized with the primaries leading up to the election that decided Bush over Gore.

Not long after that this site and others started. A lot of the early members here were recruitted from usenet. Others used to go to area 51, I was never there though.