Live better work union

[bobby m]

That's todays advice.

[Collin]

No thanks, I'm a capitalist.:rolleyes:

[Mstrav]

that was the slogan on some stickers from some union "salts" that tried taking down some companys in the late 90's in vegas. what a waste of dues!

matt

[DeltaT]

That's todays advice.

I think it's more your opinion than advice.

[RoBoTeq]

Com-union-ism is not good for the better living of free thinking folks who are confident enough to dwell on their own virtues rather then have the need for others to take care of them.

[newoldtech]

I've worked union and non union over the years. There are pros and cons to both.

If your good you don't need either.

I've found the only true way to gain self respect, freedom and happiness is working for myself.

[acmanko]

We have unions of Democrats and unions of Republicans, who together are screwing things up for all of us

[James 3528]

There are about as many union members in this country as there are men that work on 8 track tape players.


And for a reason.

Bobby drank all the Koolaid.

[acmanko]

an eight track used to be about the coolest thing you could have in a car. funny how times change

[geerair]

an eight track used to be about the coolest thing you could have in a car. funny how times changeThey were until the machine ate the tape. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[James 3528]

The coolest thing you could have in a car was a big tit blond.....but since most liberals are fags I can understand the disconnect

[geerair]

The coolest thing you could have in a car was a big tit blond.....And yours was a Golden Retriever. Woof, woof.

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/rotflol.gif

[acmanko]

The coolest thing you could have in a car was a big tit blond.....but since most liberals are fags I can understand the disconnectI guess you weren't very cool , unless a pregnant golden lab is your idea of a blond with big tits.

[conky]

That's todays advice.

What Union is that?

Stay Gold,:)

Conky

[MichaelPaladin]

And this is why I like it here in Virginia, at least I don't have to join a union to be able to work.

[RoBoTeq]

What Union is that?

Stay Gold,:)

Conky

OK; enough of this union coded language! We know what you union guys are saying when you post; "Stay gold". Well, actually we don't. That's why we know it is some kind of code. I'll bet the capitol "S" in the word "Stay" has a significant meaning.

We who support merit shop labor will figure out your demonic code, then you will be in real trouble. Does this have anything to do with worshipping Jimmy Hoffa?

[jmac00]

LABOR UNION = corruption

http://www.unionfacts.com/

[scrogdog]

We know what you union guys are saying when you post; "Stay gold"

Actually he has used that line on other places, not just here.

The is a famous line from the book (by S.E. Hinton) and movie called "The Outsiders". For young adults.

On his deathbed, Johnny advises Ponyboy to "stay gold"... meaning "stay pure" and do no let your ideals be corrupted by the thoughts of others.

[jmac00]

Actually he has used that line on other places, not just here.

The is a famous line from the book (by S.E. Hinton) and movie called "The Outsiders". For young adults.

On his deathbed, Johnny advises Ponyboy to "stay gold"... meaning "stay pure" and do no let your ideals be corrupted by the thoughts of others.

"stay pure" ------------> http://www.unionfacts.com/


BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

[conky]

Actually he has used that line on other places, not just here.

The is a famous line from the book (by S.E. Hinton) and movie called "The Outsiders". For young adults.

On his deathbed, Johnny advises Ponyboy to "stay gold"... meaning "stay pure" and do no let your ideals be corrupted by the thoughts of others.

Scrogdog and RoBoTeq:

Scrogdog; you are very good, correct.

RoBoTeq; I really was just asking a question. I thought that maybe Bobby M.

might try a comeback, instead of just trying to "flame and run".

I have worked both Open Shop and Union, and have very good friends that

work Open Shop and Union.

Just some thoughts for conversation:

I have noticed that the "Better" Open Shop tech's work for the "Better" Open

Shops (where they are treated very well by their employers; and,

the "Better"

Union tech's stand out from the rest of the "Hall" (they work year-round and

are even looked at as "a cut above".

I work myself in a Union Shop and I am treated and regarded as "a cut

above" or higher; by my peers and customers alike.

The outfit that I work with, has some real slackers that always want to cry

victim, at the drop of a hat. Also there are some real sharp, hard effort,

make it happen techs.

It seems when the ****head victims stir up the ****pot, the "cut above"

peers, usually the "cut above" put our heads together to defuse the situation

and move on to get the job done.

If management is not giving slackers something to cry about; the slackers

seem to vent their grief on the "cut above".

I am sure this victim - cut above, or similar happens in lots of camps, but

when the victims are crying and hiding behind the Union skirt; and the Union

goes to bat for the "victim" ( instead of fighting for something worthwhile );

It makes me question, what's going on?


Stay Gold :)

Conky

[jrbenny]

Damn code words.

I wore out google trying to find your source. LOL.

I haven't seen that movie in a long time.

Good post BTW.

[hvacker]

Com-union-ism is not good for the better living of free thinking folks who are confident enough to dwell on their own virtues rather then have the need for others to take care of them.

"If a man thinks he stands, take heed least ye fall"

[jmac00]

"If a man thinks he stands, take heed least ye fall"


it's okay to fall down, it depends on whether you want to get up on your own, or do you want someone else to help you up.


I prefer to get up ON MY OWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oloenneker]

I have worked both, and found that Non-union shops keep you working more of the year than the union shops. Higher wages (not by much) are not worth a damn, if you are sitting at home watching oprah, and waiting on some call list.

Like a fellow sparky told me once: IBEW stands for "I'm Broke Every Winter"...

[RoBoTeq]

Scrogdog and RoBoTeq:

Scrogdog; you are very good, correct.

RoBoTeq; I really was just asking a question. I thought that maybe Bobby M.

might try a comeback, instead of just trying to "flame and run".

I have worked both Open Shop and Union, and have very good friends that

work Open Shop and Union.

Just some thoughts for conversation:

I have noticed that the "Better" Open Shop tech's work for the "Better" Open

Shops (where they are treated very well by their employers; and,

the "Better"

Union tech's stand out from the rest of the "Hall" (they work year-round and

are even looked at as "a cut above".

I work myself in a Union Shop and I am treated and regarded as "a cut

above" or higher; by my peers and customers alike.

The outfit that I work with, has some real slackers that always want to cry

victim, at the drop of a hat. Also there are some real sharp, hard effort,

make it happen techs.

It seems when the ****head victims stir up the ****pot, the "cut above"

peers, usually the "cut above" put our heads together to defuse the situation

and move on to get the job done.

If management is not giving slackers something to cry about; the slackers

seem to vent their grief on the "cut above".

I am sure this victim - cut above, or similar happens in lots of camps, but

when the victims are crying and hiding behind the Union skirt; and the Union

goes to bat for the "victim" ( instead of fighting for something worthwhile );

It makes me question, what's going on?


Stay Gold :)

Conky

Well put. The reason of course is that the "victims" are the commodoty that unions trade in. Being the alleged champion (Read; parasite) of the alleged underdog (read; lazy, near worthless person who thinks someone should be taking care of them), the unions have an endless supply of that commodoty. Keep em down, make them feel special and use the hell out of them.

The justice system does the same thing with petty criminals.

[RoBoTeq]

"If a man thinks he stands, take heed least ye fall"

Are you stating that we should not stand up for ourselves because we might fail?

[razorback]

Unions were an important part of making this country what it has become in the last 100yrs. Becoming power hungry and losing sight of their purpose for being has led to their downfall. Justifiably so. At the present time I don't feel there is a necessity for their existence for a person to be able to make a living with a decent wage. However, if unions were abolished today, where will the middle class income be in 20yrs?

[markettech]

I have worked both, and found that Non-union shops keep you working more of the year than the non-union shops...........


Generally when one is comparing and contrasting it may be a good practice to use more than a single object of comparison in order to better communicate one's position on the matter.:rolleyes: .....................:D :D

[slimwoodie]

Scrogdog and RoBoTeq:

Scrogdog; you are very good, correct.

RoBoTeq; I really was just asking a question. I thought that maybe Bobby M.

might try a comeback, instead of just trying to "flame and run".

I have worked both Open Shop and Union, and have very good friends that

work Open Shop and Union.

Just some thoughts for conversation:

I have noticed that the "Better" Open Shop tech's work for the "Better" Open

Shops (where they are treated very well by their employers; and,

the "Better"

Union tech's stand out from the rest of the "Hall" (they work year-round and

are even looked at as "a cut above".

I work myself in a Union Shop and I am treated and regarded as "a cut

above" or higher; by my peers and customers alike.

The outfit that I work with, has some real slackers that always want to cry

victim, at the drop of a hat. Also there are some real sharp, hard effort,

make it happen techs.

It seems when the ****head victims stir up the ****pot, the "cut above"

peers, usually the "cut above" put our heads together to defuse the situation

and move on to get the job done.

If management is not giving slackers something to cry about; the slackers

seem to vent their grief on the "cut above".

I am sure this victim - cut above, or similar happens in lots of camps, but

when the victims are crying and hiding behind the Union skirt; and the Union

goes to bat for the "victim" ( instead of fighting for something worthwhile );

It makes me question, what's going on?


Stay Gold :)

Conky

Now, there is the Common sense viewpoint ...

I quit the Union 25 years ago, as i was maxed out, unless you include " a buck, and a truck" as a raise to be a foreman ...


I charge 130$ / Hr., my overhead is 25$ ...

could i get this .. Union ...??

NO Way ....

[slimwoodie]

I IBEW stands for "I'm Broke Every Winter"...


NOOOOOO ..... !!!

I Belive in Easy Work !!!!

ther's a lotta truth to that, that's why i quit the electrical union after 5 years ..
soon as schools in session ... LAYOFF .. !!

[Roscoe]

Unions were an important part of making this country what it has become in the last 100yrs. Becoming power hungry and losing sight of their purpose for being has led to their downfall. Justifiably so. At the present time I don't feel there is a necessity for their existence for a person to be able to make a living with a decent wage. However, if unions were abolished today, where will the middle class income be in 20yrs?

Well said and prophetic, when the new series of immigrants sign up, the U.S. down fall will begin.

[oloenneker]

Generally when one is comparing and contrasting it may be a good practice to use more than a single object of comparison in order to better communicate one's position on the matter.:rolleyes: .....................:D :D


I just post my observations...:rolleyes: It may different in other parts of the country...:o



Slimwoodie:

I like that "I Believe in Easy Work".... I'll use that one on the next sparky that cops a 'tude (because we all know they have those 'tude classes in their little school, it's right after the "we don't pick up after ourselves"/ "We don't get paid to clean up" class)

[oloenneker]

Well said and prophetic, when the new series of immigrants sign up, the U.S. down fall will begin.

They are already signing up with the union:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.kennedygraphics.com/imgsdesigns/s35.gif

[acmanko]

Now, there is the Common sense viewpoint ...

I quit the Union 25 years ago, as i was maxed out, unless you include " a buck, and a truck" as a raise to be a foreman ...


I charge 130$ / Hr., my overhead is 25$ ...

could i get this .. Union ...??

NO Way .... You could not pay rent for 25.00, me thinks you should learn what overhead means

[markettech]

You could not pay rent for 25.00, me thinks you should learn what overhead means

Maybe he's working out of his house...............maybe not.

But:

$25.00 per hour X 2080 hours per year = $52,000.00 per year

$52,000.00 overhead income per year / 12 months per year = $4,333.33 overhead income per month.

Not knowing the situation in great detail, I would think that even at 70% of full time hours, Slimshady might just be doing ok - but that's just me.

[daveydoo14]

I've worked union and non union over the years. There are pros and cons to both.

If your good you don't need either.

I've found the only true way to gain self respect, freedom and happiness is working for myself.

I came from a non union shop and there are just as many lazy bastards in both that dont take any pride in there work. its about people not places

cant we all just get along:D

[scrogdog]

I just post my observations...:rolleyes: It may different in other parts of the country...:o


I have worked both, and found that Non-union shops keep you working more of the year than the non-union shops...

Right. I guess in his part of the country they don't compare non-union shops to, er, non-union shops. :)

[markettech]

Right. I guess in his part of the country they don't compare non-union shops to, er, non-union shops. :)

Thank you;)

[acmanko]

Maybe he's working out of his house...............maybe not.

But:

$25.00 per hour X 2080 hours per year = $52,000.00 per year

$52,000.00 overhead income per year / 12 months per year = $4,333.33 overhead income per month.

Not knowing the situation in great detail, I would think that even at 70% of full time hours, Slimshady might just be doing ok - but that's just me. I you want to go thru all the math It looks like one could pay overhead at 25.00 an hour, but your numbers are in a perfect world, which doesn't exist. billable hours and a 40 hour work week are two differnent subjects

[oloenneker]

Right. I guess in his part of the country they don't compare non-union shops to, er, non-union shops. :)

DOH!!! It took me this long to see what the hell you guys where talking about...:mad: :mad: :mad:




(learning how to proof read my posts is on my wish list)

[markettech]

I you want to go thru all the math It looks like one could pay overhead at 25.00 an hour, but your numbers are in a perfect world, which doesn't exist. billable hours and a 40 hour work week are two differnent subjects

What exactly don't you understand??

I'm not sure how much more I can simplify it for you.......if you want, I'll see if young son can give you a hand with the math.......do you want me to see if he's available?

SlimFast said $25.00/hr covers his overhead. You said a person can't even pay rent for that.........Not that you find it hard to believe, or question it - but that he can't. I won't even go into your insult regarding the meaning of overhead because I question whether you have a firm grasp on it yourself.

I say SlimJim probably knows his business better than you or I do.

[acmanko]

What exactly don't you understand??

I'm not sure how much more I can simplify it for you.......if you want, I'll see if young son can give you a hand with the math.......do you want me to see if he's available?

SlimFast said $25.00/hr covers his overhead. You said a person can't even pay rent for that.........Not that you find it hard to believe, or question it - but that he can't. I won't even go into your insult regarding the meaning of overhead because I question whether you have a firm grasp on it yourself.

I say SlimJim probably knows his business better than you or I do. I know full well what overhead consists of . And I'll go even further to say that a legitimate tax paying business cannot cover overhead at 25.00 an hour. so put that in your pipe and smoke it.:eek:

[jmac00]

I know full well what overhead consists of . And I'll go even further to say that a legitimate tax paying business cannot cover overhead at 25.00 an hour. so put that in your pipe and smoke it.:eek:


so you guys are pissing & moaning about SOMEONE ELSE'S business.

Are you forensic accountants?

Do you know Slim so well that you can tell what his costs are, without even knowing his address????

Your assertions are astounding:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

while your at it, how much am i going to make next week:confused:

[markettech]

so you guys are pissing & moaning about SOMEONE ELSE'S business.

Are you forensic accountants?

Do you know Slim so well that you can tell what his costs are, without even knowing his address????

Your assertions are astounding

while your at it, how much am i going to make next week

YOU GUYS????:mad: :( :o :) :D



I was in SlimSlams corner........did it not come across that way? :confused:



How much are you going to make next week? Average out your take home pay per week YTD......should get you close;) ..................:D

[jmac00]

YOU GUYS????:mad: :( :o :) :D



I was in SlimSlams corner........did it not come across that way? :confused:



How much are you going to make next week? Average out your take home pay per week YTD......should get you close;) ..................:D


Ha, little do you know, what ever I make next week, the IRS will take: :p

But, I'm going to beat them at there own game and buy a whole case of Captain Morgan, That will show 'em :D

[oloenneker]

Ha, little do you know, what ever I make next week, the IRS will take: :p

But, I'm going to beat them at there own game and buy a whole case of Captain Morgan, That will show 'em :D

Uhhh.. Dont you have to pay taxes on that Captain as well? So, who's winning? Does not sound like you....:p

[markettech]

I know full well what overhead consists of . And I'll go even further to say that a legitimate tax paying business cannot cover overhead at 25.00 an hour. so put that in your pipe and smoke it.:eek:

Ok, you started out saying he can't pay rent bringing in $25.00/hr.

Now you say he can't cover his entire overhead at $25.00/hr.

When you finally paint yourself into the corner you're backing in, what then?;)

[markettech]

Uhhh.. Dont you have to pay taxes on that Captain as well? So, who's winning? Does not sound like you....:p

I suppose he could give it to us and write it off as a charitable contribution.........he'll be making money hand over fist then.:D

[RoBoTeq]

I you want to go thru all the math It looks like one could pay overhead at 25.00 an hour, but your numbers are in a perfect world, which doesn't exist. billable hours and a 40 hour work week are two differnent subjects

It'd be nicer if you didn't exist:(

Yours and geers are the only posts that I am more stupid after reading then I was before I read them.

[RoBoTeq]

What exactly don't you understand??

I'm not sure how much more I can simplify it for you.......if you want, I'll see if young son can give you a hand with the math.......do you want me to see if he's available?

SlimFast said $25.00/hr covers his overhead. You said a person can't even pay rent for that.........Not that you find it hard to believe, or question it - but that he can't. I won't even go into your insult regarding the meaning of overhead because I question whether you have a firm grasp on it yourself.

I say SlimJim probably knows his business better than you or I do.

There you go using that vague math stuff again. Don't you know that numbers don't exist in the real world? You need to spend a week at the Assy-Man-Cow scholl of non-mathematical finances to understand what it's all about, Alfie.

[RoBoTeq]

Ha, little do you know, what ever I make next week, the IRS will take: :p

But, I'm going to beat them at there own game and buy a whole case of Captain Morgan, That will show 'em :D

After a case of Captain Morgan you won't care anymore, will you jmac? Question for ya; When you have a little Captain Morgan in you, does the Captain at least give a reach around?

[acmanko]

well, I can say one thing. One little off the cuff remark is good for an extra page of posts if it gets the know it alls in an uproar. espescially since James is banned from posting, Robo has decided he has to take up the slack with the useless cyper advice. and jmac I hope you make enough to buy you case and pay slim's overhead as well

[jmac00]

Aye there matey, that be correct, me & the captain, we be mates.:D

Aye, i never got a reach around, but TBB* has (if you know what I mean):D


aye, we have one standing rule aboard ship................never DONATE Captain Morgan to ANYTHING, least of all, a bunch of swill filled hvac landlubbers:rolleyes: :p
















*Throttle Boss Barb;)

[markettech]

well, I can say one thing. One little off the cuff remark is good for an extra page of posts if it gets the know it alls in an uproar. espescially since James is banned from posting, Robo has decided he has to take up the slack with the useless cyper advice. and jmac I hope you make enough to buy you case and pay slim's overhead as well

James is banned??? :eek:

I could have sworn Admin reinstated his submittal powers - but again, if you say it, it must be true.:rolleyes:

Cyper-advice - I don't understand what this is, please explain.:confused:

Poor Slim&Trim, the abuse he takes.......and all along I thought he was in the mechanical trades as opposed to the liquor business.

With superior intelligence and reasoning skills such as yours, one would think you should have the ability to insult other members without showing how badly your feelings were hurt.

I for one, am sorry for hurting your feelings Mr. Acmanko - now repeat after me, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and darn it, people like me".

[acmanko]

James is banned??? :eek:

I could have sworn Admin reinstated his submittal powers - but again, if you say it, it must be true.:rolleyes:

Cyper-advice - I don't understand what this is, please explain.:confused:

Poor Slim&Trim, the abuse he takes.......and all along I thought he was in the mechanical trades as opposed to the liquor business.

With superior intelligence and reasoning skills such as yours, one would think you should have the ability to insult other members without showing how badly your feelings were hurt.

I for one, am sorry for hurting your feelings Mr. Acmanko - now repeat after me, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and darn it, people like me". actuall I have no feelings , so they cannot be hurt, and as for how good and smart I am that is debateable, as for people liking me, I prefer to be tolerated, if it is all the same to you. BTW comments from the peanut gallery only count when they come from our Georgia members. and as for James, he can read posts but cannot reply or start threads making him theoretically unable to contribute to the forum-Banned.

[markettech]

BTW comments from the peanut gallery only count when they come from our Georgia members. and as for James, he can read posts but cannot reply or start threads making him theoretically unable to contribute to the forum-Banned.



Members of HVAC-TALK:

A membership elected ARP committee composed of ARP members to monitor the ARP forum and make decisions based on the site rules and what should be allowed. This forum should consist of no less than 5 regular ARP posters with one of them being the chair. The chair would be responsible to convey their decisions to the Admin to carry out sanctions.


Once this committee is set up, the moderators will not moderate this forum, unless a blatant rules violation such as porn or spamming is posted. It will be up to your elected committee to monitor this forum.


There are no prerequisites for nomination; anyone can be on the committee, if they are a member in good standing. The committee will decide if they want to have a new user group name, changed to what, or if not.

I will contact the elected members next Sunday to verify that they want to do it. If someone declines, the next person in line will be asked.

Because of this special consideration, I have “pardoned” James3528 and cracker so that they can vote or be voted for.

Let the voting begin…………….

I took out as much as I could so you wouldn't get distracted and even highlighted one sentence in particular so even you can't miss it.

Now, like I said, just because you say it, it must be true, right?;)

You know, Acmanko - I do enjoy a battle of wit, but I don't feel right picking on an unarmed man.:rolleyes:

[acmanko]

I took out as much as I could so you wouldn't get distracted and even highlighted one sentence in particular so even you can't miss it.

Now, like I said, just because you say it, it must be true, right?;)

You know, Acmanko - I do enjoy a battle of wit, but I don't feel right picking on an unarmed man.:rolleyes: voting on a sticky ain't th same as posting on a thread or starting a new one. unless James is to ignorant to understand that he could post, but I'll give the man more credit than that,he is hiding ,licking his wounds and may never return. Its easy to follow his trail. just google his name and see where he's been

[markettech]

voting on a sticky ain't th same as posting on a thread or starting a new one. unless James is to ignorant to understand that he could post, but I'll give the man more credit than that,he is hiding ,licking his wounds and may never return. Its easy to follow his trail. just google his name and see where he's been

Does one not have to post in order to vote?:rolleyes:

Acmanko, put the shovel down and walk away while you can still get out of the hole you're digging.

I'm not infatuated with James and therefore have no desire to "Google" his name nor to follow his "trail".

........but it's ok for you to admit you have a crush on James - that kind of thing is socially acceptable now days. Acmanko - be proud, be loud;)


.............If you'd like, I can post while sleeping so as to level the playing field.

[acmanko]

Does one not have to post in order to vote?:rolleyes:

Acmanko, put the shovel down and walk away while you can still get out of the hole you're digging.

I'm not infatuated with James and therefore have no desire to "Google" his name nor to follow his "trail".

........but it's ok for you to admit you have a crush on James - that kind of thing is socially acceptable now days. Acmanko - be proud, be loud;)


.............If you'd like, I can post while sleeping so as to level the playing field.you are a day late and a dollar short as I am sleeping now. and I have no infatuation with James. But I did find it interesting that by using the quote button as I did just now and you were to google your name, google would direct you to this page and any other pages you may have visited.

[markettech]

you are a day late and a dollar short as I am sleeping now. and I have no infatuation with James. But I did find it interesting that by using the quote button as I did just now and you were to google your name, google would direct you to this page and any other pages you may have visited.



I just tried it for fun - Sesame Street, The Wiggles, and Hannah Montana's web info came up when I entered your name......what gives?:confused:

Should I look up the web address for a site that provides info on proper sentence construction and forward it to you?


Now, if you'd like to get back on topic, I'm all for it...........since I'm not entirely sure what doing a "Google" search on James or myself has to do with the union and living better or worse.

[acmanko]

I just tried it for fun - Sesame Street, The Wiggles, and Hannah Montana's web info came up when I entered your name......what gives?:confused:

Should I look up the web address for a site that provides info on proper sentence construction and forward it to you?


Now, if you'd like to get back on topic, I'm all for it...........since I'm not entirely sure what doing a "Google" search on James or myself has to do with the union and living better or worse.
It has notheing to do with it, you my friend have been covered inwool and led off a cliff. some are made to lead others to follow. I lead you follow. I also have completed my Easy Button with your name on.

[markettech]

It has notheing to do with it, you my friend have been covered inwool and led off a cliff. some are made to lead others to follow. I lead you follow. I also have completed my Easy Button with your name on.

Look, avoiding a topic or failing to answer questions by changing the subject isn't leading.......it is cowardice.

Quite frankly, I am getting a little tired chasing you from topic to topic here and making you look the fool. While it is almost effortless, I do have other threads I'd like to stay caught up on.

You made a couple of very strong statements which any 10 year-old can see don't hold water - which in turn sheds even more light on your ability to read, retain, and respond intelligently to a discussion.

Now, do you want to take your Ritalin and come back when you can focus on the topic at hand or do you want to start a new thread.........something on the lines of "On Topic"?

[acmanko]

Look, avoiding a topic or failing to answer questions by changing the subject isn't leading.......it is cowardice.

Quite frankly, I am getting a little tired chasing you from topic to topic here and making you look the fool. While it is almost effortless, I do have other threads I'd like to stay caught up on.

You made a couple of very strong statements which any 10 year-old can see don't hold water - which in turn sheds even more light on your ability to read, retain, and respond intelligently to a discussion.

Now, do you want to take your Ritalin and come back when you can focus on the topic at hand or do you want to start a new thread.........something on the lines of "On Topic"?well now we know what the sound of melting cheese is:)

[rogerk]

1. While they claim to be concerned about productivity, they seem far more interested in securing as many minimally productive, due paying members as possible.

2. While they claim to fight for members best interest when dealing with the company, many of their demands actually render the company uncompetitive, costing sells, which cost jobs and long term viability of the company.

3. When a union is certified as the exclusive employee representative, employees become members of an overall bargaining unit in which the majority rules based on 'choices' that Union leaders choose to give you. In most cases, the union leaders simply make the decisions for all employees, which is rarely in the memberships best individual interest.

4. Members are Required to support the union financially (pay dues) as a condition of their continued employment at a 'union-shop'.

5. Members have no say over how or on what, their union dues are spent. Members don't even have access to what was spent and what it was spent on after the fact.

6. Members can be fined or otherwise disciplined by their union for engaging in activities, which, in the union's opinion, are "unbecoming" of union members or which violate the union's constitution and by-laws. Examples of such activities may include exceeding production quotas, or seeking to be represented by a different union. The fines assessed against offending employees can be substantial and are judicially enforceable.

[oloenneker]

1. While they claim to be concerned about productivity, they seem far more interested in securing as many minimally productive, due paying members as possible.

2. While they claim to fight for members best interest when dealing with the company, many of their demands actually render the company uncompetitive, costing sells, which cost jobs and long term viability of the company.

3. When a union is certified as the exclusive employee representative, employees become members of an overall bargaining unit in which the majority rules based on 'choices' that Union leaders choose to give you. In most cases, the union leaders simply make the decisions for all employees, which is rarely in the memberships best individual interest.

4. Members are Required to support the union financially (pay dues) as a condition of their continued employment at a 'union-shop'.

5. Members have no say over how or on what, their union dues are spent. Members don't even have access to what was spent and what it was spent on after the fact.

6. Members can be fined or otherwise disciplined by their union for engaging in activities, which, in the union's opinion, are "unbecoming" of union members or which violate the union's constitution and by-laws. Examples of such activities may include exceeding production quotas, or seeking to be represented by a different union. The fines assessed against offending employees can be substantial and are judicially enforceable.


Add this to the ever expanding reasons why not to work for a Union Shop.:cool:

[chillbilly]

Look, avoiding a topic or failing to answer questions by changing the subject isn't leading.......it is cowardice.

Quite frankly, I am getting a little tired chasing you from topic to topic here and making you look the fool. While it is almost effortless, I do have other threads I'd like to stay caught up on.

You made a couple of very strong statements which any 10 year-old can see don't hold water - which in turn sheds even more light on your ability to read, retain, and respond intelligently to a discussion.

Now, do you want to take your Ritalin and come back when you can focus on the topic at hand or do you want to start a new thread.........something on the lines of "On Topic"?

LOL
I can't say that I blame you there, Mark.
James has full posting priviliges manko.
Mark showed you the pardon with letters as big as the ones on an eye chart!
Get it??
Sheesh
:rolleyes:

[hvacker]

Are you stating that we should not stand up for ourselves because we might fail?


Nope.. I was relating to your constant insistance that you made it all on your own and don't need anyone else.

Strange how a man is tested by the words that come from his mouth.. I would just walk softly.

[hvacker]

1. While they claim to be concerned about productivity, they seem far more interested in securing as many minimally productive, due paying members as possible.

2. While they claim to fight for members best interest when dealing with the company, many of their demands actually render the company uncompetitive, costing sells, which cost jobs and long term viability of the company.

3. When a union is certified as the exclusive employee representative, employees become members of an overall bargaining unit in which the majority rules based on 'choices' that Union leaders choose to give you. In most cases, the union leaders simply make the decisions for all employees, which is rarely in the memberships best individual interest.

4. Members are Required to support the union financially (pay dues) as a condition of their continued employment at a 'union-shop'.

5. Members have no say over how or on what, their union dues are spent. Members don't even have access to what was spent and what it was spent on after the fact.

6. Members can be fined or otherwise disciplined by their union for engaging in activities, which, in the union's opinion, are "unbecoming" of union members or which violate the union's constitution and by-laws. Examples of such activities may include exceeding production quotas, or seeking to be represented by a different union. The fines assessed against offending employees can be substantial and are judicially enforceable.


These "Facts" you state are so misleading as to be propaganda.
I'm a signatory union contractor and have been for 11 years.

Your points
#1 The very existance of any union shop depends on being more productive than non union shops. This is why in most citys union shops are also the biggest.

#2 Not true. Union shops modernize to increase production.

#3 Also not true. Members can have as much involvement as they wish. You need to remember that the officers at the hall are people we have worked with both on the job and as union officals.

#4 Yes we pay dues and gladly if we take the time to look at our bottom line.
Includes pension, 401K, health insurance at no cost, even unemployment insurance.

#5 Also not true. At every monthly meeting members vote even on what bills to pay. While money that goes to the International will be determined at that level their job is to grow the Union and determine it's direction. Right now we are branching out to include training in service, T&B, building commishing, certified welding and other areas.

#6 Never heard of it. Simply not true. We are all about production and many guys I personally know draw over scale because of their productivity. My son is paid $2 over scale.
I also know guys that transfered to the pipe fitters with out any problem.

Wrong on all counts! You don't have facts only a misguided opinion.

[oloenneker]

You know, today was an interesting experience. I went to help the installers on a change out. Wired and fired up a heat pump with a gas furnace backup...

You know where we where at? The laborers union hall.... I find it even more interesting that we are a non-union shop. Hmmm....

How's that for union loyalty.

[conky]

You know, today was an interesting experience. I went to help the installers on a change out. Wired and fired up a heat pump with a gas furnace backup...

You know where we where at? The laborers union hall.... I find it even more interesting that we are a non-union shop. Hmmm....

How's that for union loyalty.

I wonder how many Union worker will shop WalMart today?

Stay Gold,:)
Conky

[hvacker]

You know, today was an interesting experience. I went to help the installers on a change out. Wired and fired up a heat pump with a gas furnace backup...

You know where we where at? The laborers union hall.... I find it even more interesting that we are a non-union shop. Hmmm....

How's that for union loyalty.


The Union probably didn't own the building.

[whec720]

The Union probably didn't own the building.

Does that make it right? Shouldn't the union check up on such things? This is one of the reasons why the unions are failing. They don't seem to walk the walk.
Hire union labor. C'mon, they can't seem to adhere to that?

[fastfred]

These "Facts" you state are so misleading as to be propaganda.
I'm a signatory union contractor and have been for 11 years.

Your points
#1 The very existance of any union shop depends on being more productive than non union shops. This is why in most citys union shops are also the biggest.

#2 Not true. Union shops modernize to increase production.

#3 Also not true. Members can have as much involvement as they wish. You need to remember that the officers at the hall are people we have worked with both on the job and as union officals.

#4 Yes we pay dues and gladly if we take the time to look at our bottom line.
Includes pension, 401K, health insurance at no cost, even unemployment insurance.

#5 Also not true. At every monthly meeting members vote even on what bills to pay. While money that goes to the International will be determined at that level their job is to grow the Union and determine it's direction. Right now we are branching out to include training in service, T&B, building commishing, certified welding and other areas.

#6 Never heard of it. Simply not true. We are all about production and many guys I personally know draw over scale because of their productivity. My son is paid $2 over scale.
I also know guys that transfered to the pipe fitters with out any problem.

Wrong on all counts! You don't have facts only a misguided opinion.

Thank you for the above rebuttal.
On my behalf and others who have tried to inform the misinformed regarding union info.
You either get it or you don't. :)

[oloenneker]

The Union probably didn't own the building.

That might be true, but they did write us the check for the job, So I assume they are at least responsible for the building.

[oloenneker]

Does that make it right? Shouldn't the union check up on such things? This is one of the reasons why the unions are failing. They don't seem to walk the walk.
Hire union labor. C'mon, they can't seem to adhere to that?

There was plenty of Union propaganda hanging on the walls: What I thought was even more interesting is that this is a hall for BUILDING TRADES LABORERS!! They are in the construction business, you would think that they would know which contractors in town are union affiliated, and which ones are not. A simple phone call to UA local 290 would have been all it would have taken to get a union shop to do the work. There are even small residential companies in town that are Union...

[whec720]

There was plenty of Union propaganda hanging on the walls: What I thought was even more interesting is that this is a hall for BUILDING TRADES LABORERS!! They are in the construction business, you would think that they would know which contractors in town are union affiliated, and which ones are not. A simple phone call to UA local 290 would have been all it would have taken to get a union shop to do the work. There are even small residential companies in town that are Union...

Oloe,
You can look at it this way. Their lack of effort was your gain. BTW, how did the job turn out?

[oloenneker]

Oloe,
You can look at it this way. Their lack of effort was your gain. BTW, how did the job turn out?

It turned out just fine, and they are happy with their new heating and cooling system. Actually, no one there even questioned any of us if we where "organized", so I guess no one cared either. And yes it was our gain, because we made money on the job.:) :)

[RoBoTeq]

Nope.. I was relating to your constant insistance that you made it all on your own and don't need anyone else.

Strange how a man is tested by the words that come from his mouth.. I would just walk softly.

If I have ever made any comment insinuating that I am a self made man, it was in error. I owe many for my successes and thank them and the Lord daily for my life. As far as walking softly; that may be a problem.