Digital Refrigeration system analyzer

[Rookie2dafield]

just wanted some feed back is it worth the investment or is it just a waste of money

[Reeferman]

just wanted some feed back is it worth the investment or is it just a waste of money


If you are talking about the DigiCool made for Ritchie it is worth that and more.

[allstar08]

Why?

[Reeferman]

Why?

Because it is the most accurate well built digital gauge out there. It was invented and is used daily by a man that knows this trade inside and out. If you don't believe me go here http://www.digi-cool.com/ and phone Doug Lockhart who will get back to you within minutes and ask him why.

[allstar08]

Because it is the most accurate well built digital gauge out there. It was invented and is used daily by a man that knows this trade inside and out. If you don't believe me go here http://www.digi-cool.com/ and phone Doug Lockhart who will get back to you within minutes and ask him why.

cool accurate gauges?
I mean what do I get for the masive amount of money I pay?
I can do super heat and sub-cooling calculations myself, all be it not as fast, but a whole lot cheaper.
What else does it offer. are they about the same as the testo?

[chillbilly]

cool accurate gauges?
I mean what do I get for the masive amount of money I pay?
I can do super heat and sub-cooling calculations myself, all be it not as fast, but a whole lot cheaper.
What else does it offer. are they about the same as the testo?


Yes, they are about the same as Testo.
I have the 523 and it has maintained it's accuracy without a hitch.
Any mechanical gauge that relies on the D'Arsonval movement will lose it's accuracy and must be callibrated regularly. Massive amount of money? Hardly.
When I think about all the money I have pissed away using the mechanical gauges, it's a no-brainer for me.

As for recording superheat and subcooling, anyone can do the math but the fact that the analyzer computes all temperatures in real time is a plus for me especially when the accuracy of the mechanical gauges is questionable each time I use them.

[allstar08]

Lets see r-22 gauges with hoses under a hundred, replace gauges when needed about $9-12 each. Hoses on any set of gauges will need to be replaced every year so we won't count those. R-410 are about 120 give or take, and the same applies for gauge head replacement.
Digital gauges are what 500-700? The testo set I saw was about a grand.
Can these gauges be used with all refrigerant. What if I work on a 22 system then a 410 what about the contamination?

[ckone180]

Lets see r-22 gauges with hoses under a hundred, replace gauges when needed about $9-12 each. Hoses on any set of gauges will need to be replaced every year so we won't count those. R-410 are about 120 give or take, and the same applies for gauge head replacement.
Digital gauges are what 500-700? The testo set I saw was about a grand.
Can these gauges be used with all refrigerant. What if I work on a 22 system then a 410 what about the contamination?

Contamination? Are you watching Monsters, Inc.?

[vlux]

:eek: :D :D :D You guys kill me:)

[ga-hvac-tech]

I own the YJ digital gauge set, I am a bit biased.

I bought it because I got tired of trying to read (accurately) the scale on a round gauge (my eyes are not what they used to be). The digital gauge set gives me dead accurate pressures to 1 PSI on the high side and 1/10 of a PSI on the low side (can you read that on a gauge).

Calibration is a snap: Just have both hoses open to atmosphere, and press the 'zero' button. In about 1 second the scales say '000.0' and '000'.

And as Chilly said: having SH and SC calculated continuously on the fly is a time saver.

Sure, I could do the math in my head... but why?

I think we need to not be penny wise and pound foolish here (just my opinion). If a new gadget will speed up the work, and lower the load on me... it is worth it IMO.

[Reeferman]

It amazes me that the analog gauge is still the great hold out in this trade. However with the "Lets get on the digital train" that many manufacturers are on now one has to be very careful with the junk that is being made now just like the Tiff and Robyn Air digital disasters. But I guess if one is concerned about paying more than a couple of bucks for analog gauges then one would probably own a Harbour Freight analog volt meter for a couple of bucks.

[Rookie2dafield]

Is it ok to use the same gauges for R-22 And 410a. I always flush my gauges after use especially after 410a due to its POE oil but never use my gauges for both refrigerants. I have heard this is not good and that its OK Looking in to getting digital gauge but having to get 2 one for each Refrigerant would be out of the question.

am I being over protective or is it ok to use same gauge for both r-22 and 410a

[beenthere]

If your screen name is true to your time in the field.

Don't get one.

Learn how to tell what the system is doing without the digitals telling you what is going on.

Later you can invest in one when you don't need it to tell you.

[mark beiser]

How bout this for a reason to go with digital gauges.

For a large percentage of the TEV equipped R-410a systems in existence right now, being just 2º subcooling low of refrigerant can be the difference between working properly, and being as much as 10% below rated capacity on a 95º+ day.

Take a look at the temperature scale on the liquid gauge on your R-410a manifold.
2º is about the width of the needle, or less, on most gauges.

Look at the gauge from slightly different angles.
Notice that the reading is slightly different, depending on the angle you are viewing it from.

Combine the small inaccuracy of analogue gauges , especially if you are spending less than $30-$40 per gauge on your manifold, with the unavoidable interpolation errors that come with looking through a lens at a needle over a gauge face, and it becomes obvious that analogue gauges are laughably inadequate, and have been for years.
The only reason they have hung around so long is that affordable digital technology has taken so long to become available.
It is here now. IMO, in 10-20 years, people using analogue gauges will be only slightly more common than people using analogue multimeters are today.

I have been using 1% accuracy brass gauges with optical quality tempered glass lenses for years, but now that I have gone digital, I offloaded 2 sets of them to my garage, keep one set on my truck for systems I know or suspect are contaminated with leak detection dye, and one as my refrigerant recovery set.
I have a Digi-Cool BTD-1000 a Testo 523-1, and next year will either get the newest thing from Digi-Cool, or pick up a Testo 556-1 with wireless probes.
I prefer the Digi-Cool, but the Testo is a nice unit too.

I'll never go back to analogue.

[mark beiser]

replace gauges when needed about $9-12 each.

Using gauges that are that cheep is barely more accurate than the beer can method. :p

If you insist on sticking with analogue gauges, at least get 1% accuracy class 1 gauges. About $30-40 each for brass gauges with tempered glass lenses, or $50-100 each for gauges with bellows type movement.

[Rookie2dafield]

How bout this for a reason to go with digital gauges.

For a large percentage of the TEV equipped R-410a systems in existence right now, being just 2º subcooling low of refrigerant can be the difference between working properly, and being as much as 10% below rated capacity on a 95º+ day.

Take a look at the temperature scale on the liquid gauge on your R-410a manifold.
2º is about the width of the needle, or less, on most gauges.

Look at the gauge from slightly different angles.
Notice that the reading is slightly different, depending on the angle you are viewing it from.

Combine the small inaccuracy of analogue gauges , especially if you are spending less than $30-$40 per gauge on your manifold, with the unavoidable interpolation errors that come with looking through a lens at a needle over a gauge face, and it becomes obvious that analogue gauges are laughably inadequate, and have been for years.
The only reason they have hung around so long is that affordable digital technology has taken so long to become available.
It is here now. IMO, in 10-20 years, people using analogue gauges will be only slightly more common than people using analogue multimeters are today.

I have been using 1% accuracy brass gauges with optical quality tempered glass lenses for years, but now that I have gone digital, I offloaded 2 sets of them to my garage, keep one set on my truck for systems I know or suspect are contaminated with leak detection dye, and one as my refrigerant recovery set.
I have a Digi-Cool BTD-1000 a Testo 523-1, and next year will either get the newest thing from Digi-Cool, or pick up a Testo 556-1 with wireless probes.
I prefer the Digi-Cool, but the Testo is a nice unit too.

I'll never go back to analogue.


you Sold me on that note, what do you recommend.

[mark beiser]

what do you recommend.

The Digi-Cool/Yellow Jacket set.
Nothing wrong with the Testo, I just find my Digi-Cool more convenient, since it is mounted on a regular refrigerant manifold.

If you are at higher altitude, and depending on probe options have $1300-$1800 to spend on it, the Testo 556-1 would be the ideal choice, since its pressure sensors work from true absolute pressure when in the correct mode. It would take a little adjustment getting used to looking at psia instead of psig, but would be a lot better than having to correct PT charts for high altitude.

[Twilly]

Twilli says yes to YJ.

[allstar08]

you have not addressed the situation of the cross contamination of the r-22 to r-410. Would you have to flush the set after each use or dump the charge in the lines. That can suck if you are working on a 410 system then switch to 22. Do you have to have two sets?

I have spent lots of dough on manifold sets before, liquid filled gauges, 4 hose sets, etc. I have now gone back to the cheapo's.

[chillbilly]

Lets see r-22 gauges with hoses under a hundred, replace gauges when needed about $9-12 each. Hoses on any set of gauges will need to be replaced every year so we won't count those. R-410 are about 120 give or take, and the same applies for gauge head replacement.
Digital gauges are what 500-700? The testo set I saw was about a grand.
Can these gauges be used with all refrigerant. What if I work on a 22 system then a 410 what about the contamination?


Well, let's see....Testo 523 cost for me ....460 bucks. Seems you may be getting snookered if they are quoting you 1,000 bucks for the Testo.

Hoses can be dedicated for each refrigerant if you feel there is a contamination issue, especially since you've already pointed out that hose cost is insignificant.
Does that address your query about contamination?
It's merely a matter of precision and preference for me.
I could care less what you use, but if you cannot see the significant benefits from the advancement of technologies, that's your problem.
When comparing the technology of today with that of the past, I prefer to use the instruments that are used in the lab and not the ones that are inferior.

[chillbilly]

you have not addressed the situation of the cross contamination of the r-22 to r-410. Would you have to flush the set after each use or dump the charge in the lines. That can suck if you are working on a 410 system then switch to 22. Do you have to have two sets?

I have spent lots of dough on manifold sets before, liquid filled gauges, 4 hose sets, etc. I have now gone back to the cheapo's.

This is laughable.
You are woirried about minimal contamination issues from the use of gauges for different refrigerants, but you don't blink when using a set of gauges that cannot retain their accuracy over the course of a few service calls?

Until the people in the lab that experiment with cross use of refrigerants under all types of conditions start telling me there is a problem with contamination, I'll consider it a non-issue.

[falkenater]

Hope your joking "beenthere" we don't invest enough in state of the art tools already. I see you guys all the time debating friction rate, duct sizing ect. when there are great tools like computer design software that saves tons of time and helps show our customers we've taken the time & effort to design their system, and end up with a job that is close to perfection. Todays performance contractor tool box should include design software, flow hood, duct tester, and digital gauges.

[chillbilly]

Hope your joking "beenthere" we don't invest enough in state of the art tools already. I see you guys all the time debating friction rate, duct sizing ect. when there are great tools like computer design software that saves tons of time and helps show our customers we've taken the time & effort to design their system, and end up with a job that is close to perfection. Todays performance contractor tool box should include design software, flow hood, duct tester, and digital gauges.

Absolutely.
If we go in armed with the proper tools and designs, there is no guesswork.

[allstar08]

Just so I get this straight... I work on a 410 system with valved hoses because the charge pressures are high 300ish. I then valve them off and put the remainder in the low side, but I am still left with about 125 on the low side. I then valve those off and remove. I walk up to my next call and hook up to a 22 system then open my gauges and put whatever is in my hoses of 410 into the 22 system? I might have been missing something in translation, is this what you guys do?

[beenthere]

Hope your joking "beenthere" we don't invest enough in state of the art tools already. I see you guys all the time debating friction rate, duct sizing ect. when there are great tools like computer design software that saves tons of time and helps show our customers we've taken the time & effort to design their system, and end up with a job that is close to perfection. Todays performance contractor tool box should include design software, flow hood, duct tester, and digital gauges.
Not kidding.

He should learn diagnostics without the ais of "high tech" peice of equipment doing the dianostics for him.

Then when he can, he can move up to something that will do it for him.

Everyone of us should be able to do math without a calculator.
No reason not to carry one in the truck though.

[beenthere]

Just so I get this straight... I work on a 410 system with valved hoses because the charge pressures are high 300ish. I then valve them off and put the remainder in the low side, but I am still left with about 125 on the low side. I then valve those off and remove. I walk up to my next call and hook up to a 22 system then open my gauges and put whatever is in my hoses of 410 into the 22 system? I might have been missing something in translation, is this what you guys do?
No.

You bleed your manifold down to 0 psig before you hook to the next system.

[chillbilly]

No.

You bleed your manifold down to 0 psig before you hook to the next system.

Exactly.
Also note that a "de-minimus" release is perfectly acceptable.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Because it is the most accurate well built digital gauge out there. It was invented and is used daily by a man that knows this trade inside and out. If you don't believe me go here http://www.digi-cool.com/ and phone Doug Lockhart who will get back to you within minutes and ask him why.

I had a few questions for Doug and sent him an Email last night. He called me today and we had a nice chat (on his dime). Good guy, he really cares about this project! BTW: Doug said he makes the unit for YJ. All they do at YJ is mount it on the manifold, test it, and ship it.

Doug is an unusual guy: He is truely dedicated to this project, and knows what he is talking about. I have a really good feeling about him and his product! I think it will remain one of the major players in the industry.

BTW: Both a 'wood clamp' style, and a 'scissor' style temp clamps will be out later this fall. They will be available through YJ also.

Edited by GA: Clamps will fit 1/4" to 1-1/8" OD pipe.

[Twilly]

I had a few questions for Doug and sent him an Email last night. He called me today and we had a nice chat (on his dime). Good guy, he really cares about this project! BTW: Doug said he makes the unit for YJ. All they do at YJ is mount it on the manifold, test it, and ship it.

Doug is an unusual guy: He is truely dedicated to this project, and knows what he is talking about. I have a really good feeling about him and his product! I think it will remain one of the major players in the industry.

BTW: Both a 'wood clamp' style, and a 'scissor' style temp clamps will be out later this fall. They will be available through YJ also.



Glad to hear about the clamp, I was going to make one, but I'll wait

[allstar08]

Exactly.
Also note that a "de-minimus" release is perfectly acceptable.

What is the use for low loss fittings that are required?
Just what I always wanted oily gauges that cost 425.
The set I was looking at did come with a printer...I will say that is pretty cool.
The fact remains that you will need two sets to be a "true pro"

I wil keep that in mind after my tax return

[mark beiser]

Learn how to tell what the system is doing without the digitals telling you what is going on.

Digital gauges don't tell you what is going on any more than analogue ones.
The Digital gauges just give you more accurate information.

[beenthere]

You mean they don't do the math for you for SH, or SC, either.

[JLADude]

I have Testo and J&B digital refrigeration analyzers. I use J&B religiously and enjoy the results and accuracy. I just wish it displayed the high side saturation temperature.

[chillbilly]

I have Testo and J&B digital refrigeration analyzers. I use J&B religiously and enjoy the results and accuracy. I just wish it displayed the high side saturation temperature.


My 523 does display the high side saturation temp.

[chillbilly]

What is the use for low loss fittings that are required?
What is the use? To prevent a needless loss of refrigerant through pressure blowback. Oh, and the low loss fittings are not required...they are preferred.


Just what I always wanted oily gauges that cost 425.
You ever heard of wiping down tools and instruments with a soft, clean cloth?? Are you one of those guys that *****es when your coffee is slightly over-sweetened? You seem like you are just trying to convince yourself to stay with your mechanical gauges while knowing full well that they are an inferior instrument.
You've gotten the information you asked for. Suit yourself.


The set I was looking at did come with a printer...I will say that is pretty cool. I wil keep that in mind after my tax return.
The fact remains that you will need two sets to be a "true pro"

Nah, instruments don't make you a pro....knowledge through training and experience does.
And like I told you before, there is no evidence that there is any need to own different manifolds for both refrigerants.
I'll take the word of the professionals that test the instruments on that one.

[falkenater]

Not kidding.

He should learn diagnostics without the ais of "high tech" peice of equipment doing the dianostics for him.

Then when he can, he can move up to something that will do it for him.

Everyone of us should be able to do math without a calculator.
No reason not to carry one in the truck though.

beenthere,
Not to be disagreeable, but the tools I mentioned do not trouble-shoot for you, they just do it much more accurately and faster. A unexperienced tech can't take a set of digital guages and suddenly be a expert on the refrigeration side of the system, or walk up to a computer and do flawless load calcs, my point is these tools make a good tech better. Nothing replaces
good training and a true understaning of the system as a whole.

[davidr]

The fact remains that you will need two sets to be a "true pro"


Just goes to show you how clueless I am.

I have been using one set of Digi-cools for 22 & 410A for over two years now only to find out I am not a true pro.

My ego shattered after reading this. :D

[chillbilly]

Just goes to show you how clueless I am.

I have been using one set of Digi-cools for 22 & 410A for over two years now only to find out I am not a true pro.

My ego shattered after reading this. :D

:D :D :D
LOL

[Doug Lockhart]

I have been using 25 different sets of DC and YJ for over 15 years and even used them on old R12, R502 and R500 systems......Mineral oil, AB, PAG, POE.....I have to say I am shattered too.....I'm not a true pro either?????:( :confused: :eek: :o




:D :D :D
LOL

[allstar08]

Just goes to show you how clueless I am.

I have been using one set of Digi-cools for 22 & 410A for over two years now only to find out I am not a true pro.

My ego shattered after reading this. :D

It should be.:)
I put the true pro in quotes to be sarcastic, but the fact remains that pissing refrigerant all over your gauges and van because of de-minimus is kinda lame. The oil that is in 410 is not good if you know what I mean, add some moisture and you got issues; I wouldn't want to chance getting that in my eyes or on my skin. It amazes me that ones consumed with accuracy and minutia would opperate like this. Just my two cents.

[dash]

Who makes a set that records the readings ,and can be downloaded to your PC?

I read about one but can't remember the brand.

[JLADude]

Testo

[davidr]

It should be.:)
I put the true pro in quotes to be sarcastic, but the fact remains that pissing refrigerant all over your gauges and van because of de-minimus is kinda lame. The oil that is in 410 is not good if you know what I mean, add some moisture and you got issues; I wouldn't want to chance getting that in my eyes or on my skin. It amazes me that ones consumed with accuracy and minutia would opperate like this. Just my two cents.


Okay you lost me on the pissing refrigerant all over my gauges part.
Am I missing something here?

The refrigerant never gets close to the casing on any of my gauges, the oil if any that is in my hoses is so miniscule it amounts to nothing.

The thing that amazes me is the guys concerned with oil cross contamination normally don't think twice about dumping dye into a unit or that leak sealant crap.

If you have that much trouble with oil trapping in your gauges & hoses you need to take a serious look at your servicing procedures IMHO.

[allstar08]

A normal 410 system operates at what pressures on a 80 degree day?
What is that low side pressure?
You will have roughly 100 psig in there when you are done.
Do you dump it right when your done, or do you wait until your next call?
When your gauges sit in your hot van what happens?

For the record I really like the testo set with the wireless printer.
I will wait until the price comes down, just like cd, dvd, lcd, plasma, etc.

I have always liked having two sets, because both refrigerants opperate so differently. I love the valves on the hoses of 410 and I like low loss fittings on my 22 set. As for accuracy I have never seen 1% take me to system critical.

Confession Time::o :o :o

I have never used dye, but I do have the yj set up ready to go if I need it.

I must admit I have never used nitrogen in the line while welding. I feel so bad about that one. I am trying to fix this.:o

[ga-hvac-tech]

My gauge set has a pressure holding fitting on the high side. After removing the high side, with the system running, I bleed the liquid and oil through the manifold to the low side while it is in suction mode (running). Then remove the low side and let it vent. De-minimus loss is acceptable.

Then what is left in the gauge set (atmospheric pressure of refrigerant) is not enough to worry about.

I probably will get a second JY digital unit in a year or so, kinda waiting to see if Digi-Cool designs a new board with upgraded features. Doug Lockhart has some fantastic ideas for a really 'cool' next version!

[chillbilly]

A normal 410 system operates at what pressures on a 80 degree day?
What is that low side pressure?
You will have roughly 100 psig in there when you are done.
Do you dump it right when your done, or do you wait until your next call?
Are you asking for guidance or is this a rhetorical question?
If you don't know how to dump refrigerant out of your manifold and hoses, just say so.

When your gauges sit in your hot van what happens?
Nothing. Unless you did not perform your service procedures correctly.


For the record I really like the testo set with the wireless printer.
It's a nice instrument. Easy to use and pinpoint accuracy with dozens of different refrigerant chart data stored.


Confession Time::o :o :o

I must admit I have never used nitrogen in the line while welding. I feel so bad about that one. I am trying to fix this.:o
You should feel bad about not using a nitrogen sweep when brazing.
It's a procedure that should be performed every single time.
A much bigger contamination issue than oil incompatibility.

[ga-hvac-tech]

You should feel bad about not using a nitrogen sweep when brazing. It's a procedure that should be performed every single time. A much bigger contamination issue than oil incompatibility.

Thoroughly agree with this statement. Mixing a minute amount (as in the amount in the hoses and manifold at atmospheric pressure) of 22 into 410 or 410 into 22 is nothing as serious as the oxidation crap that gets into the system as a result of brazing with other than N2 in the line.

[allstar08]

[QUOTE=emoney1971;1567346]A normal 410 system operates at what pressures on a 80 degree day?
What is that low side pressure?
You will have roughly 100 psig in there when you are done.
Do you dump it right when your done, or do you wait until your next call?
When your gauges sit in your hot van what happens?

This is the proper procedure, but I don't have to worry about doing it, because I use two sets.:D
Try not to be so condesending. lol

The funny thing is I went to school and the instructor that I had 12 years ago never mentioned it. I found out about it at a product meeting years later. The company I worked for never used it, and when I mentioned it I was instructed that it's not a big deal.
I am finding out that what you hear may not always be what you need to hear.

[beenthere]

[QUOTE=emoney1971;1567346]
When your gauges sit in your hot van what happens?

This is the proper procedure, but I don't have to worry about doing it, because I use two sets.:D


.

You should be soing this on both sets of your guages. Leaveing them pressurized in your van, weakens the spring, they become less acturate..

[mark beiser]

[QUOTE=emoney1971;1568671]

You should be soing this on both sets of your guages. Leaveing them pressurized in your van, weakens the spring, they become less acturate..

Or use gauges that don't have springs. ;)

[beenthere]

[QUOTE=beenthere;1568719]

Or use gauges that don't have springs. ;)
LOL...

good point

how well do the transducers hold up to constant pressure.

I have no doubt you don't leave you manifold under pressure, but have you heard any feed back on it.

[mark beiser]

My Digi-Cool gauges have been under pressure most of the time for almost a year now.
After disconnecting from a system, I don't bleed the vapor pressure from my gauges. I didn't when I was using the Yellow Jacket 1% accuracy brass gauges either, and it didn't cause any calibration problems.
What will kill gauges is leaving liquid refrigerant in the manifold and hoses.

Keeping some refrigerant vapor in the manifold and hoses keeps moisture and other contaminants out. ;)

[beenthere]

I generally bleed mine out before I put them in the truck in the summer.
They always have pressure in them when I get to the next place.

Winter time, I don't worry about vapor in them, its too cold to build up much pressure.

[Doug Lockhart]

If the digital gauge manuf. uses welded SS diaphragm transducers then leaving pressure does not hurt them. On the other hand if the DRSA has 'o-ringed' which are usually ceramic style transducers with non viton material then residual oil and HFl, HCl acids will cause them to eventually leak. The creep associated with all these transducers is usually negligible....short version.....I've taken 1 year old, older generation DC DRSAs with pressure captured in them, dumped to atm and they are 40-50% of the time less than 1/2 psi off which could be the difference in barometric pressure that day.

[beenthere]

Thanks.

[John Markl]

Not kidding.

He should learn diagnostics without the ais of "high tech" peice of equipment doing the dianostics for him.

Then when he can, he can move up to something that will do it for him.

Everyone of us should be able to do math without a calculator.
No reason not to carry one in the truck though.

AMEN :cheers:

Methinks we've become too enamored with "cool toys", instead of first becoming proficient at what we do.

Back in the 70's electronic cash registers started coming out, that calculated change for you.........now, nobody working a retail checkstand can make change.

We're looking at digital gauges, but I'm still quite comfortable with my analog Yellow Jackets, and a Fluke T80-150U temp probe to get my sc/sh readings.

[John Markl]

Just goes to show you how clueless I am.

I have been using one set of Digi-cools for 22 & 410A for over two years now only to find out I am not a true pro.

My ego shattered after reading this. :D

:LOL:

[ga-hvac-tech]

AMEN :cheers:

Methinks we've become too enamored with "cool toys", instead of first becoming proficient at what we do.

Back in the 70's electronic cash registers started coming out, that calculated change for you.........now, nobody working a retail checkstand can make change.

We're looking at digital gauges, but I'm still quite comfortable with my analog Yellow Jackets, and a Fluke T80-150U temp probe to get my sc/sh readings.

Agree John!

When we know WHY things work, then we know how to trouble-shoot why they do not work...

If we simply know 'if this... then that' When we hit a REAL problem, we are stumped.

IMO digital gauges, as well as many other new tools, are fine; AFTER one knows the WHY's.

[cmp240]

I just had to chime in on this one,I agree with beenthere,with a newbie(original post)he doesnt need those gauges,and I believe he's talking about the analizers that do the calcs for you,he needs to learn how to do the calcs himself(charts etc.)and to be able to analize what the pressures are telling him,once he gets some time under his belt,then go for the high tech tools,just IMHO

[Doug Lockhart]

I just had to chime in on this one,I agree with beenthere,with a newbie(original post)he doesnt need those gauges,and I believe he's talking about the analizers that do the calcs for you,he needs to learn how to do the calcs himself(charts etc.)and to be able to analize what the pressures are telling him,once he gets some time under his belt,then go for the high tech tools,just IMHO

That's why in Canada is is a 'compulsory trade'. You cannot work in this trade without either being an indentured apprentice or a TQ'd (trade qualified) journeyman. Thus you have a 4-5 year apprenticeship where you learn the basics and understand them before you move onto the next year. You guys are moving towards it with NATE but the USA's typical aversion to 'government' is hampering that needed 'law'....
Within that apprenticeship is the journeyman that also mentors along the 4 years for a complete tech at the end of it....

[cmp240]

Im not sure there needs to be a "law" but when I train someone,either when I was in the A.F or now,I make sure they know the basics and hve them down pat 1st,and then move on,but after 17 yrs I still try to learn something new everyday,I still use my analog gauges and my chart,I may go to the digital etc. just so I can get more jobs done per day,the ones that calc for you,but I dont think they're for newbies

[Doug Lockhart]

Im not sure there needs to be a "law" but when I train someone,either when I was in the A.F or now,I make sure they know the basics and hve them down pat 1st,and then move on,but after 17 yrs I still try to learn something new everyday,I still use my analog gauges and my chart,I may go to the digital etc. just so I can get more jobs done per day,the ones that calc for you,but I dont think they're for newbies

Laws are so that ALL trainers train properly....if you're doing training properly then don't take offense, take pride in what you already have for principles.
If you've never used a set of DCs with the bargraph then you are watching an analogue 14" tube TV instead of a HD plasma....that's the best analogy I can come up with....

So how's you RS1 working for ya...? Attraction by example..... ;)

[ga-hvac-tech]

Laws are so that ALL trainers train properly....if you're doing training properly then don't take offense, take pride in what you already have for principles.
If you've never used a set of DCs with the bargraph then you are watching an analogue 14" tube TV instead of a HD plasma....that's the best analogy I can come up with....

So how's you RS1 working for ya...? Attraction by example..... ;)

We have this problem in the USA... when folks pass a law... it is usually biased towards a special interest group (most politicians are bought and paid for... not much altruism anymore)... and as such the new law does not really do much for the industry... just that special group. Shame, but our political system is corrupt. Wish it were different. Freedom in its best; will allow those that want to work to a higher standard... to do so. Problem comes when folks get greedy... they focus only on $$$... and get what they pay for.

IMO: let folks learn the hard way... they WILL learn the lesson of value quite well when they no longer have a nanny govt to protect them from their childishness.

OK, now that I have been negative, How ya doin' Doug... have not seen you here at H-talk in a while. Hope all goes well with you and Brenda.

John/GA

[John Markl]

Laws are so that ALL trainers train properly....if you're doing training properly then don't take offense, take pride in what you already have for principles.
If you've never used a set of DCs with the bargraph then you are watching an analogue 14" tube TV instead of a HD plasma....that's the best analogy I can come up with....

So how's you RS1 working for ya...? Attraction by example..... ;)

My RS-1 works fine, thanks....So did my wooden handle Prestolite torch (that I've had since high school) until one of my guys carelessly dropped it and it split open.

I have nothing against new technology.....unless it becomes a mask for incompetence.

[Doug Lockhart]

We have this problem in the USA... when folks pass a law... it is usually biased towards a special interest group (most politicians are bought and paid for... not much altruism anymore)... and as such the new law does not really do much for the industry... just that special group. Shame, but our political system is corrupt. Wish it were different. Freedom in its best; will allow those that want to work to a higher standard... to do so. Problem comes when folks get greedy... they focus only on $$$... and get what they pay for.

IMO: let folks learn the hard way... they WILL learn the lesson of value quite well when they no longer have a nanny govt to protect them from their childishness.

OK, now that I have been negative, How ya doin' Doug... have not seen you here at H-talk in a while. Hope all goes well with you and Brenda.

John/GA

I have never understood a country that champions democracy allowing companies to 'donate' to a politician/party!! It completely wipes out democracy and consequently the big gets bigger....and the middle class gets wiped out....... pretty much what we are getting...

Brenda and I are well as the three girls. We'll have some product to try for the newbies soon.....and I've still not found the resolution you've suggested....

[Doug Lockhart]

My RS-1 works fine, thanks....So did my wooden handle Prestolite torch (that I've had since high school) until one of my guys carelessly dropped it and it split open.

I have nothing against new technology.....unless it becomes a mask for incompetence.
Agreed BUT in nature everything either grows or dies......
Also, no tech of mine is ever allowed to use anything but Oxy/Acet . Prestolite's too cold and turbo's too noisy, plus you ruin valves with em.

[John Markl]

Agreed BUT in nature everything either grows or dies......
Also, no tech of mine is ever allowed to use anything but Oxy/Acet . Prestolite's too cold and turbo's too noisy, plus you ruin valves with em.

Not when you use Sta-Brite #8 ;)

[Doug Lockhart]

Not when you use Sta-Brite #8 ;)

ALL SOFT SOLDERS ARE ILEGAL TO BE USED ON A REFRIGERATION SYSTEM!!!!

[John Markl]

ALL SOFT SOLDERS ARE ILEGAL TO BE USED ON A REFRIGERATION SYSTEM!!!!

You just lost all credibility with me........Better stick to selling gadgets....:censored:

[chuckcrj]

You just lost all credibility with me........Better stick to selling gadgets....:censored:

Might be true in Canada.....

They aren't just gadgets BTW. No way you could get me to go back to analog.

[Doug Lockhart]

You just lost all credibility with me........Better stick to selling gadgets....:censored:

When you wanna put your big girl panties on there son and learn how to braze with a big girls torch.....then maybe, just maybe you'll realize WTF a digital anything is....

Along with selling gadgets I've been brazing in this industry for 35 years son. Nobody of any professional ability/stature uses soft solder in this industry....unless they're dedicated hack.....IMHO.
FYI, the code of practice in Canada forbids the use of any soft solders now for about 15 years except on mobile units.....FWIW.... And thus the need for laws.....

Hack on Erkl....:grin2:

[John Markl]

When you wanna put your big girl panties on there son and learn how to braze with a big girls torch.....then maybe, just maybe you'll realize WTF a digital anything is....

Along with selling gadgets I've been brazing in this industry for 35 years son. Nobody of any professional ability/stature uses soft solder in this industry....unless they're dedicated hack.....IMHO.
FYI, the code of practice in Canada forbids the use of any soft solders now for about 15 years except on mobile units.....FWIW.... And thus the need for laws.....

Hack on Erkl....:grin2:

Whatever you say, sweet britches....I can braze just fine, with Sil-Fos or Stay-Silv 15.

We've been using Sta-Brite #8 down here in the U. S. of A. for 30+ years. So, I really don't care what you do in Canada....My Dad was using Sta-Brite #8 at Argonne National Laboratories before you knew what the word "hack" was.

In the meantime, based on your obvious lack of knowlege, I just ordered 3 Fieldpiece SMAN3 units from my suppliers.

Cheers, bro....:cheers:

[ga-hvac-tech]

I have never understood a country that champions democracy allowing companies to 'donate' to a politician/party!! It completely wipes out democracy and consequently the big gets bigger....and the middle class gets wiped out....... pretty much what we are getting...

Brenda and I are well as the three girls. We'll have some product to try for the newbies soon.....and I've still not found the resolution you've suggested....

Glad to hear you and the family are doing well. When are we gonna see the wireless... :)

As to the highlited sentence above... yeah, politicians are for sale to the highest bidder... which is always corporate. Seems to me the corps finance the campaigns... so the polcats can deliver the good little sheep to the corps for sheering (financial sheering that is). Not enough folks down here have a set big enough to take a stand... "Just don't mess with my ride... all is fine".

Having made a negative statement... we do have a lot of freedom to do as we please... so long as we do not make waves or cross a big-guy's stuff.

Sheesh...

[ga-hvac-tech]

Whatever you say, sweet britches....I can braze just fine, with Sil-Fos or Stay-Silv 15.

We've been using Sta-Brite #8 down here in the U. S. of A. for 30+ years. So, I really don't care what you do in Canada....My Dad was using Sta-Brite #8 at Argonne National Laboratories before you knew what the word "hack" was.

In the meantime, based on your obvious lack of knowlege, I just ordered 3 Fieldpiece SMAN3 units from my suppliers.

Cheers, bro....:cheers:

We will be listening to hear your thoughts... both on usability and durability. THX in advance for sharing details... :cheers:

[KeyResults]

Well, I'm on my 2nd year with Digi's and I don't miss the analog rigs one bit! Good riddance.

They're not far from being relegated to the box in the corner with my 8 track player, my Tack/Dwell meter, My Sony Betamax and VHS Tape player, my crt tv with a uhf dial and vhf dial, my 3 lb cell phone, sh/sc dial-a-chart, and my slide rule.

I LOVE not having to dink around with calcs and paper and my lousy handwriting on damp from sweat paper blowing around. My gauges give me a great picture of what's going on at all times. They have more refrigerant data in them than I'll ever need, the batteries last a long time, they give me both low side and high side pressures and temps simultaneously and instantly. They help me keep track of my pressure test so I don't have to remember how long it's been sitting there at 256.4 lbs during a leak test while I hook up electrical and work conduit. They're at least as rugged as my analog rigs ever were.

While I agree that it is useful and important to go to school on analog gauges, it's silly once you go pro - to not take advantage of everything you can to be more efficient and productive...time is money! And, IMHO, Digi's pay for themselves REALLY quick. Sure you can still light a fire on your pot belly stove and learn to cook the right way, but those microwave ovens are darned handy little suckers. And, if you don't own a DVR, well...

Too me, the greatest development in our profession has been Digi manifolds, and internet connected smartphone, iPad or PC of some sort...they both are terrific diagnostic, service, and customer relationship tools.

[Doug Lockhart]

Whatever you say, sweet britches....I can braze just fine, with Sil-Fos or Stay-Silv 15.

We've been using Sta-Brite #8 down here in the U. S. of A. for 30+ years. So, I really don't care what you do in Canada....My Dad was using Sta-Brite #8 at Argonne National Laboratories before you knew what the word "hack" was.

In the meantime, based on your obvious lack of knowlege, I just ordered 3 Fieldpiece SMAN3 units from my suppliers.

Cheers, bro....:cheers:

I was gonna suggest you order them or the MC.... to fit your style of work....
Keep the warranty card !!