FYI: professionalism goes both ways

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

Many in our industry, especially business owners, will argue that we all need to be more professional. That we need to build HVAC into a reputable and respected profession, right along with nurses, lawyers, police, teachers, etc. I could not agree more. But it needs to be more than lip service on the part of self-righteous overseers. And that burden of professionalism should not only apply to the front line: technicians. It should apply to all.........

I did not simply fall into this line of work. This is not just a job to me. This is my career. That means at a certain point in my life I looked around and said "this just isn't cutting it, I need to do something more with myself, be better, be a professional". But Mommy and Daddy didn't own a heating company.........

As part of my self-inspired endeavor to be a professional I did the following:

I sought out and researched schools and training facilities. I talked with more educated members of my family and circle of friends. I started the ball rolling. Something had to change and I was going to be the one to make it happen.........

At this point in my life I was working in dead end jobs and I couldn't afford to feed, clothe, and shelter my family properly. Finding myself sharing company (at work) with teenagers, the elderly, drug-users, and losers - something had to give - this wasn't me. But you see my family was very poor growing up and my parents offered me little guidance early on in school or life skills at all. Mine was a hard road to take. I would offer a mile in my shoes if I could to any of you. Especially with a young wife and a baby daughter. So we tore our family in half and it broke my heart and my confidence. After all, I was doing all that I could. We split and my wife and daughter moved back in with her parents so she could attend college. And I went dragging my sorry bottom back to Mom and Dad for one last helping hand. So I could attend college and make something of myself. But it was a fight because I was always told that college wasn't affordable or realistic. They agreed to help me, but I would have to repay them for my room and board. And eventually I did. Knowing I should be a husband and a father I once again returned to being a subordinate child, but not for long I vowed.........

I met with guidance counselors at the local community college several times and found that I had a legitimate interest in this field. I am self-motivated, technially-adept, and like to work alone for the most part. This comes from having had to work with the types of people I listed above. So I enrolled into a two-year HVAC college degree program where I excelled and graduated at the very top of my class. Was this simply by happenstance? No, it wasn't. It was because I didn't only read the chapters assigned by the professor, I read the entire book. It was because I didn't only take the notes in class, I revised them at home and studied them religiously, and drew schematics to accompany them. It was because I was the first to class, and never missed a day, and would endlessly engage the students around me (many of them already professionals in the field) and learn from their experiences and listen to their advice. So you see it was no accident that I graduated top of my class.........

When the time came for the job search to begin I sent out over 70 resumes with cover letters, I shook hands, I rang phones, I sent thank you letters, I studied the companies I applied to before I applied so I could impress the owners. And I asked detailed, engaging, and thoughtful questions in all of my interviews. I wore a shirt and tie, polished black shoes, carried a leather portfolio, and as professional and courteous as I knew how to be. Well, it paid off, I got my first job. The beginning of my career.........

While working with this company I never stopped trying to better myself. You see, for a professional, this is a never ending endeavor. I can't count the times early into the field that I sat in front of a customer's furnace with my brain reeling, having no idea of what was wrong, and drew schematics on old cardboard boxes, until I figured it out. My boss was not billed for this time. As far as he knew I was out of there at 6:30, he did not need to know that it took me until 10:00 and I didn't expect to get paid for it. On the job learning, I was willing to bear the brunt all in my quest to become a master of my trade. Since the first customer's home that I have entered, I have been a shoes polished, shirt tucked in, face clean shaven, look-you-in-the-eye kind of guy. I have studied for every test and every certification, I have read countless industry publications, I have come home at night and reworked service calls in my head and referred to my old books to help improve myself as a technician, as a real professional.........

I can say with the utmost confidence that most, if not all, of my counterparts in my current company and many industry-wide do not take this same level of initiative or desire success in the way that I do. This website however holds many of those exceptions. You would have to walk a mile in my shoes to know all of the 'unlisted' reasons here that I push so hard in life forward. Let's leave it at that.........

But, once I got the job I didn't just stop trying to reach for professionalism. It's not in me. No indeed, I compiled a library or books and studied for the NATE exam for five years and for my contractors license. Many whom I work with simply don't care about these things. Every day is just another day closer to the weekend for them. At times I envy them, how life would be so much easier with that mindset. But alas, I am cursed with this need to succeed. At work, my van is clean, my paperwork is detailed, my troubleshooting is thoughtful and thorough, my manners are intense, and my integrity is firmly intact. And I proudly wear the company logo and wish to represent it only in the best light possible. Well fast forward just a couple years into the future and now all of my coworkers (even those with twenty + years of experience) call me with technical questions. I work side-by-side with my boss on my free time and give him useful advice on items like how to best set up flat rate pricing books, how to best set up maintenance contract forms, how to best handle certain customer objections. Unfortunately, the hierarchy at my company is firmly ensconced and despite all of my drive and all of my ambition there is nowhere for me to go higher than I am right now. So, do I settle for this? Well, if you have been reading this far I am certain that you know the answer to that question.........

So here we are at the conclusion of my long and wordy story and at the beginning of my next adventure. What is that? Looking for a "new job"? NO. Looking forward to the "next step in my career"? YES.

I would like to explain that the purpose of this 'article' (if you will) is not to brag about me. I have always been content with personal/internal success. I don't need the world to pat me on the back. Nope. Quite conversely, if many of you have read my other posts I am a pretty light-hearted person who jokes a lot and tries to being out the humor in almost any situation. But some things are near and dear to me, among them my pride, my integrity, and my professionalism.........

Instead, the purpose of this 'article' is to shed light on the fact that professionalism in our industry needs to come from both ends. Not simply from technicians, but also from owners/managers. Well, in many instances it is not. The burden of professionalism is being overwhelmingly laid on technicians and not being reciprocated by their overseers. Unethical quotas, unfair employee assessments, unsafe working conditions, unrealistic expectations that only focus on the bottom line this quarter, and the list most definitely goes on........

Like I said before, part of being a professional is striving to learn all that one can learn about those things that one should know about. Well, one of those things I have learned is that you are supposed to ask questions in an interview. Here are just a few of my sources:

Here (http://www.career.vt.edu/JOBSEARC/interview/AskQues.htm), and here (http://www.pohly.com/interview-2.html), and here (http://jobsearch.about.com/od/interviewquestionsanswers/a/interviewquest2.htm), and here (http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/skills/interview/questionstoask/), and here (http://www.garywill.com/worksearch/int-ch14.htm), and here (http://www.careerbuilder.co.uk/UK/JobSeeker/CareerAdvice/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=20&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=ebbb45e16c024ab4a00373dd37a65cb2-238403799-J0-5).

(to be continued on next post, too long for one...)

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

(continued from previous post...)

I recently had a 'conversation' in this very forum that left a very poor taste in my mouth. At the same time, it was an eye-opener and its lessons were not lost on me.

It is quite sad and very unfortunate that the same employers who espouse the need for more professionalism in our industry don't hold themselves to the same standard. A truly educated and professional interviewer would be more open to a back and forth interviewing process. But an old dog stuck in its old ways would not. No, instead, he would tout the banner of professionalism but not hold himself to the same standard. He would reign on his high tower of knowledge but unknowingly eminate ignorance. His likely reaction to a job candidate of this sort would be: "Don't question me. Don't push me. Don't put me on the spot. Don't rock the boat. There's the door! Etc..."

Yes Massa!

This lack of professionalism on the part of the interviewer would be obvious and it would only serve to hurt the potential levels of success attained by his organization. All this avoided could be avoided so easily by defeating ignorance and embracing professionalism.

However, across the wider spectrum of professions in America most employers are trained and educated enough in interviewing to know that this is not only expected, but is recommended and should be welcomed. It is very unfortunate that many in this industry are so backwards that they don't know how it should be and is being done and become fearful and intimidated when it happens. So you see, an employer's kneejerk reaction to being asked pointed questions in a job interview would undoubtedly send candidates like me right out the door. I just hope the dope who sits there and says "OK, OK, OK, Yes Sir, Thank You" is the same level of employee you just sent out the door.

Professionalism goes both ways... the day you stop learning, or stop being willing to change, or stop striving you are dead in the water.

...and I must say if you have made it this far you have way more patience than me, I would never read a post this long...:D

[MichaelPaladin]

Well I had the patience to read it all. :D

And your main points are so true, too many people in the "upper levels" of management, think they are way smarter than the people doing the actual work.

Right now I'm really lucky, I've got a job with a small company, with a good boss (who still works in the field running service calls). And all the employees (plumbers and electricians) like and get along with each other, so its a great work enviroment. So I actually look forward going to work each day.

[ARPA]

Ryan, (I also have to answer you in 2 posts)

You have made some good points on here.
Let me tell you my story, from an owner’s side again, as I think you are not getting what some of us tried to get across to you.

To me it takes a certain breed of person to be an owner, to take the plunge and invest his life in the business to make it profitable. This breed is mainly aggressive, the alpha male so to speak, and it is mainly only their way. What I have seen is that these are the businesses that make it in the long haul..

I started out as a helper. Then I graduated to a service tech, to lead tech, to service manager, to owner. This within the last 25 years..

During my last job, I was at the top, being a service manager, actually set up an office for a very large a/c company that wanted to set up shop my area. After a couple of years I seen where I would not get to advance any higher, and I wanted it. (Thru out all of these years I also went to school, I probably have hundreds of certificates in this field, and got my state contractors license.)

Hence, my own business…

Since then it has mushroomed to over 80 employees, in 4 years!

Since coming here, I found out I was somewhat naïve about how others were treated in various parts of the industry in different regions of the country. Stories I’ve heard about how techs get treated, pay for example, and owners get treated and vice versa amaze me. Most of it I have learned on this website, and also being involved in various organizations I have joined. I have also since gone back to school to learn more and get a diploma in Business Management and have taken umpteen hundreds of courses in leadership, management, employee this and that, etc.

In stating all of this I have learned a few things thru out all my years. Out of every 10 employees that I interview, and 10 is being conservative, 1 out of 10 I would hire, maybe…

You seem to be, and I mean this, “seem to be”, the type of employee that would not fit in as a service tech. You are at a crossroads. It appears that you have the knowledge of being more, and the attitude, but maybe lack the real world experience to be a service manager or more…to some.

I was at the same point in my life years ago. I wanted more, but I was told that I did not have the years of experience that they were looking for…..blah, blah, blah…..Crap that I did not want to hear.

I moved to a better, what I believed, to be a better HVAC environment/location in the USA, from the Keys to Miami. Always hot in Miami, millions and millions of homes with ac, and it seems just as many a/c contractors. I could actually pick and choose who I wanted to work for..

I was gun ho at interviews. Had a 3 ring binder of all my certifications, 3” thick, licenses, etc, etc…..

Asked what I believed all the right questions, listened, and asked more. Actually asked a lot of the questions that you have listed. Every place I went, “I put them off.” I found out years later when talking to some of these companies in my position now that they all thought I was a know it all, prima donna so to speak, and they did not want to take the chance of rocking the boat from what they worked hard for.

Since then I have taken more courses, and the best course I have learned from is OJT. Meaning my own interviewing skills and the people I’ve hired, over 300 in 5 years (Miami is a tough market….as there are 100 applicants for one job every time I post one)

I have found out that the person that seems sincere, does not boast about themselves, too much, as there is a fine line here, and interacts with me during an interview is the ones that have stayed and advanced within my company.

The ones that came to the interview that thought as I did years ago, I AM THE BEST, etc ,etc, and asked me all sorts of questions, most irrelevant at that time, for an initial first interview, and I hired them where the ones that caused me the most grief, as in wanting things changed to their way, talking to the others in the company to try to get it done, were the ones that padded their timesheets, where the ones that complained about the GPS systems I had installed, and I found out that they were the biggest culprits of ripping me off, or that things HAD to be done their way or no way at all…They did not last and unbeknownst to them, as I know a lot of the companies in my area, they have not lasted at any of them either……

[ARPA]

(You had made one statement earlier that, “OK, do you know of anyone else hiring?” I wouldn’t even expect this out of a candidate if I did not hire them. Why would I tell them of a company if I did not hire them?? I do tell people, everyone that I interview with a call back, or letter of why they were not hired) I always keep the application on everyone I interview, and grade them so if I ever get another opening, I have this info, and if you ask this, you seem to me, from my experience, that you would leave me for a dollar to go somewhere else….

It all comes down to what job you are interviewing for. I expect certain questions to be asked at the initial interview. Not so much as getting into great depth of the company, but get a feel for each other. Again, different interview strategies for different positions that I am looking to fill. I would ask different questions of a school only trained helper than that of a position for a seasoned tech, or a lead tech..

Now, I do expect a helper to be hired on the initial interview and not as much detail about the company or your questions to be asked as would if I was hiring a service tech and more in-depth if I was hiring a lead tech or service manager position…

You said that you have learned on this forum, and that some of the posters that have replied to you have left a bad taste in your mouth. I can only think that you are talking about 2 of us that replied, but let me say this…

Both of us are very successful and operate a highly profitable business’. I got there by “being” professional, and thru out the years of experience and not so much “schooling” but actually doing it, have learned what works and what does not. This is the key phrase, and I could probably only say that instead of this long winded post, “I have learned what works, and what does not, for “my” business.” I can only hope that you re-think of what was told to you as “constructive” criticism and not take any of it the wrong way.

You will not fit in at every business that you apply for. Go back a see what I said about the alpha male breed, and tell me one business, that is successful, that the owner is not this way…..Same as a good tech, lead tech, or service manager. They are of the same breed. (Try telling a “good” tech, or better yet a service manger how to do something…LOL…….)
My techs tell me how it is at times, I listen, my lead techs, 2, run the jobs, and my service manager, well, my leads are the service mangers think they are the cats meow so to speak, but…..they have been with me since day one and if their attitude that they have now appeared at the initial interview, they would not have gotten hired, and it would have been my loose. But, they were smart enough to have researched my company and knew about what it is I do, pay, etc etc before they even came in to interview with me. They did their homework on me as much as I did on them, and they were smart enough to know what should be asked and “when” to ask it.

Reminds me of last week. My dispatcher left. So, I needed to hire another. 8 out of 10 people that I seen in an interview after shaking their hands and sitting down, the first words out of their mouths was, “OK, it says in the paper that you are paying 30K a year for this position, what benefits do you also pay.” Now this was right after I shook their hand, said hi, welcome to ARPA, I am XXXXX and sat down, THE FIRST word out of their mouth was this statement. Needless to say, the interview was over in 60 seconds, and I told them why right there. As I said earlier, it has been my experience, this kind of attitude would not work out if all that they are interested in is pay, and is the first words out of their mouth….Get to know the interviewer first…….

The links that you posted are true, in a perfect word, but show me this perfect world, the perfect company, or better yet, the perfect boss? You have to be able to read the person to get the feeling “when” is the proper time to ask certain questions.

You state that you are helping your present boss with his business, great, if he wants it. If he doesn’t…well, why waste your time. I also see that you are in Detroit? From what I have been reading this is not so good of an area to be looking for a job, or for work as far as that goes. Have you actually thought about relocating?

Your appearance at interviews you stated that you wore polished shoes and a suit and tie? OK, but in my world, a tech coming for an interview dressed like that is over the top. In my mind I would be thinking about, what is this guy after? Maybe a nice pair of dress slacks, a polo type shirt etc. An office job, then maybe a tie….

And yes, professionalism does go both ways. There are a many non pro techs as there are business owners, but, you have to impress the owner, not the other way around.

Last, do not give up. Keep searching and you will find what works for you and what does not. The job for you is out there, or maybe it is time to hang your own shingle out on the door..

Good luck!

[HeyBob]

Ryan,

I suggest that you go into business for yourself. Report back to us in 6 months what you find out there on the street and your impressions as an employer trying to hire someone.

Bob

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

ARPA: I appreciate the advice. However, the point that has been missed (somehow) yet again is that it is not people offering their opinions on "the topic" at hand that upset me. It is someone offering their opinions on "me" that upset me.

BOB: I will do that. Maybe you and I can set down 6 months from now and talk about how it went. Only if you are buying though. I do need to warn you that I eat a lot and I am picky. Let me say, you certainly do not beat around the bush. I respect that. However, I think you let your bad experiences get the best of you. I felt like the punching bag for your pent up rage. Your replies to me in the "sample interview questions" thread didn't so much respond to the topic as they did analyze me personally. Well, in case you had missed this fact, you don't know me Bob, nope, not a bit, never met. So I guess that somehow all of your years of real world experience never taught you that it is not appropriate to sum up a person like that. Especially when you imply that they are a prima donna, a potential crook, and a worthless employee. That's a little over the top. Here is what you missed the first time around: I have only had a couple of job interviews in this industry, EVER, so I am not as experienced with it as you are. I never, NEVER, intended to go into that job interview and interrogate the man! I just wanted to seem like the best, and show that I was 'thoughtful' and 'engaged' in my role as a technician, and not just another warm body. It's nothing personal though. You scorched my ass, so I scorched yours. I felt like you took a swing at me, and I swung back. I don't pull my punches. That is simply how I am. But let me cut through the backhanded sarcasm and offer you this...? I hope you will accept. Bet you never analyzed my personality as the type to be the "bigger man". No hard feelings.:) I expect that one some level, admitted or unadmitted, you respect my candor as I do yours...

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herbpics/olive_leaf.gif

[kruzer2001]

Ryan you whine and cry too much. take your proffesionalism and integrity wherever you go if the co's not a fit move on. Not everyones gonna meet your standards. and surely someone as wise as yourself will find a niche

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

Ryan you whine and cry too much. take your proffesionalism and integrity wherever you go if the co's not a fit move on. Not everyones gonna meet your standards. and surely someone as wise as yourself will find a niche
Stop that, I'm tearing up here! Quick...honey...find me a Kleenex! Sorry about that.

[Tony0945]

You have worked hard to get where you are and surmounted many obstacles.

But I do resent that crack about equating the elderly with drug addicts. Maybe you have some prejudices in this area? Maybe in other areas? Deal openly and honestly with your co-workers and remember that you haven't walked in their shoes, either. You can learn from anyone, even if it's learning what not to do.

And someday you will have gray hair too, unless you die young.

[ckone180]

Stop that, I'm tearing up here! Quick...honey...find me a Kleenex! Sorry about that.

Who has the time to write these long, drawn out epochs of their lives? Dammit man, those who are interested can see the integrity that you may or may not have. I don't know that is the medium to exhaust your endless monotony, JMO.

Most of the people who participate in this forum have either performed countless educational duties, or joke. Some do both.

:D Good luck to you, though. You seem as though you deserve it.

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

But I do resent that crack about equating the elderly with drug addicts. Maybe you have some prejudices in this area? Maybe in other areas? Deal openly and honestly with your co-workers and remember that you haven't walked in their shoes, either. You can learn from anyone, even if it's learning what not to do.

And someday you will have gray hair too, unless you die young.
I apologize for that. I didn't mean to "equate" the elderly with losers and drug addicts. But let's get real. When you walk into Walmart, who is the greeter? :D I respect my elders. But most of them are just doing something part time, not a career. You see an insult where none was written or intended...

[ckone180]

I apologize for that. I didn't mean to "equate" the elderly with losers and drug addicts. But let's get real. When you walk into Walmart, who is the greeter? :D I respect my elders. But most of them are just doing something part time, not a career. You see an insult where none was written or intended...

So you are planning a major birthday party for your child, two boxes of oscar meyer hotdogs, twenty pound Lays chips per bag, and the eight houndred pound charcoal bag. Seeing as how Sams doesn't provide bags, the bottle glass bearing reciept checker will not let you pass until you drop the newly purchased items on the concrete, reach into your back pocket for the slip, then realize he couldn't read it anyway? I deduce the elderly should be drug addicts!:p

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

So you are planning a major birthday party for your child, two boxes of oscar meyer hotdogs, twenty pound Lays chips per bag, and the eight houndred pound charcoal bag. Seeing as how Sams doesn't provide bags, the bottle glass bearing reciept checker will not let you pass until you drop the newly purchased items on the concrete, reach into your back pocket for the slip, then realize he couldn't read it anyway? I deduce the elderly should be drug addicts!:p
LOL- I need to retire from these long drawn out monotonous threads before I start to look like a giant douche! Ouch too late!:D

[ckone180]

LOL- I need to retire from these long drawn out monotonous threads before I start to look like a giant douche! Ouch too late!:D

You got the drift, and your a quick learner....LOL.:D

[HeyBob]

Ryan,

If you think I was being personal you are incorrect. What I was saying was not meant as a direct jab at you even though it may be misconstrued by many as being so.

Also, I was direct, very direct, you wanted an employers perspective and I certainly showed you mine. I do not beat around the bush, I let my opinion be known, if people don't like it, oh well.

You know where I am at, I have no idea who you are or where you are. Blow in here some day and I will buy you lunch. Just give me a heads up. You say you are picky, well I hope you like Bennigans, that's where I took Twilli on Friday and he's still alive.

Also you think I have pent up rage and an inferiority complex, you have no idea who I am from that perspective, you have no grounds to make a comment like that, because you don't know me personally.

'nuff said!

Bob


Oh yea, read This Post (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=144826)

[ckone180]

Ryan,

If you think I was being personal you are incorrect. What I was saying was not meant as a direct jab at you even though it may be misconstrued by many as being so.

Also, I was direct, very direct, you wanted an employers perspective and I certainly showed you mine. I do not beat around the bush, I let my opinion be known, if people don't like it, oh well.

You know where I am at, I have no idea who you are or where you are. Blow in here some day and I will buy you lunch. Just give me a heads up. You say you are picky, well I hope you like Bennigans, that's where I took Twilli on Friday and he's still alive.

Also you think I have pent up rage and an inferiority complex, you have no idea who I am from that perspective, you have no grounds to make a comment like that, because you don't know me personally.

'nuff said!

Bob

WOW, Bob, where is my lunch? Do I have to insult you first?:D

[HeyBob]

WOW, Bob, where is my lunch? Do I have to insult you first?:D

Nope! You can't insult me! I have thick skin.

[ckone180]

Nope! You can't insult me! I have thick skin.

But I want lunch at Benningans......

[Twilly]

Twilli thinks Ryan could work in quality control at Coleman

[HeyBob]

But I want lunch at Benningans......

Well then I am easy to find.......

[kruzer2001]

Ryan you are still a whiner AND COMPLAINER . If you can start your own business have at it . All your post have been complaining about what you can do. show somebody hoss. Evidently you are the man. Don't know a business owner here that could'nt profit from your expertice. your kind are a dime a dozen. But maybe there's hope for ya ! I do doubt it tho

[hvacbear]

Professionalism starts with each of us. As Ryan has seen there are a few too many running around working for a paycheck.

[Carnak]

You had made one statement earlier that, “OK, do you know of anyone else hiring?”

No arpa, that was me suggesting he add it to his list of questions as I thought he was being too pushy and was coming across as high maintenance. The sarcasm implied that he would not be getting the job with me, his questions would push my buttons that he was undesirable.

The grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence.

When you work for someone else you always think how much better off you would be on your own, you would not have to take this $hit from a boss, would be making so much more money, but you do not have to worry where your next pay check is coming from.

When you work for yourself, besides worrying where your next pay check comes from, you also have to pay those who work for you before you pay yourself.

Ryan was given a chance to test run his list of questions, and received some bluntly honest responses.

I do not believe anyone answering had a personal issue with him. Not my fault if I stuck a nerve, or if anyone else did.

[Roscoe]

Was looking for constructive criticism, I figured we'd help him narrow down his questions, as quite a few were very good. Some would have been best left out of the initial interview. Others were too probing and best left for a later date if the applicant is hired, or not asked at all. This thread seems to have gone in the wrong direction.

What a shame here was an opportunity for both sides of the table to learn.

Oh well...............:(

JMO

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

Ryan you are still a whiner AND COMPLAINER . If you can start your own business have at it . All your post have been complaining about what you can do. show somebody hoss. Evidently you are the man. Don't know a business owner here that could'nt profit from your expertice. your kind are a dime a dozen. But maybe there's hope for ya ! I do doubt it tho
I'll have to clear it with my therapist first. I pay $180 an hour to whine. At least I do it in style. Hold on, I had so much more to say, but ... I ... feel a ... panic ... attack ... coming ... ON!!! Kruzer stop hurting my feelings. My mangina is getting bruised.:rolleyes: If the only way you can find to be relevant in this thread is to keep trying (over and over LOL) to get my goat by calling me a whiner and a complainer, you are a nincompoop! :D

[ryan_the_furnace_guy]

Was looking for constructive criticism, I figured we'd help him narrow down his questions, as quite a few were very good. Some would have been best left out of the initial interview. Others were too probing and best left for a later date if the applicant is hired, or not asked at all. This thread seems to have gone in the wrong direction.

What a shame here was an opportunity for both sides of the table to learn.

Oh well...............:(

JMO
Roscoe, most of all, your advice was intelligent, thoughtful, and helpful. Until now I haven't said "Thanks" for that, but I mean it. You were honest without launching an attack or tirade. I am very sorry that this devolved into what it became as well. :( As far as I see it, I didn't throw the first beer bottle. But when one hit me I started scrappin'.

[ckone180]

nincompoop! :D

What the hell? :D

[Twilly]

Well then I am easy to find.......



Twilli went to see HeyBob and HeyBob bought his lunch. He has a first class operation and "I" appreciate his openess and hospitality.

I wanted to publically say Thank You.

Twilli

[obxdist]

Twilli went to see HeyBob and HeyBob bought his lunch. He has a first class operation and "I" appreciate his openess and hospitality.

I wanted to publically say Thank You.

Twilli

Twilli, think bob can make me a pro business professional one day ?

[Twilly]

Twilli, think bob can make me a pro business professional one day ?



I certainly got some good ideas from him, and it was good to share some of our business concerns and marketing ideas with one another. One thing is certain if you visit with him you will enjoy your time there. He is much more personable in person than on the internet.

Hope I don't tarnish his image, I think he's going to drop Lennox and switch to Coleman.:rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: ;)

[obxdist]

I certainly got some good ideas from him, and it was good to share some of our business concerns and marketing ideas with one another. One thing is certain if you visit with him you will enjoy your time there. He is much more personable in person than on the internet.

Hope I don't tarnish his image, I think he's going to drop Lennox and switch to Coleman.:rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: ;)

I sell coleman and armstrong....but not on the professional level...you know what i mean twilli....anything for a pay check..

[ckone180]

Twilli went to see HeyBob and HeyBob bought his lunch. He has a first class operation and "I" appreciate his openess and hospitality.

I wanted to publically say Thank You.

Twilli

What did you do to offend HeyBob before he bought you lunch?

[dirtyboy103us]

Ryan i liked the last picture of yourself(the one you call boris) better than the new one



and dude you need to relaxe on what other people do, and show respect to others not because they have nice shoes or a coat but who they are and how they treat you, and your vocabulary and writing skills are top notch but don't need to be flex here, most of these guys are working guys, like you and me that came up the same as you discribed and still claw and scatch for all they get.try raising three while going to school at 30, working nights and your wife working 2 jobs to survive, so we have all been there.....

with that being said, get a job

[HeyBob]

Twilli went to see HeyBob and HeyBob bought his lunch. He has a first class operation and "I" appreciate his openess and hospitality.

I wanted to publically say Thank You.

Twilli


You are certainly very welcome, it was great meeting you and seeing that hat in real life!

Yes, we did share a few things, I gave Twilli one of my marketing devices that I was not quite happy with and knew needed tweaking, well Twilli is tweaking it and is gonna share it back!

Oh yea, he trusted me enough to drive his Jeep, Twilli has a very very cool Jeep! :D :D :D :D

That's what this site is all about guys! :D

[HeyBob]

I certainly got some good ideas from him, and it was good to share some of our business concerns and marketing ideas with one another. One thing is certain if you visit with him you will enjoy your time there. He is much more personable in person than on the internet.

Hope I don't tarnish his image, I think he's going to drop Lennox and switch to Coleman.:rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes: ;)


LOL............You are gonna ruin my image as a hard nosed jerk face that picks on guys looking for jobs and throws the first beer bottle! :cool:

Coleman..................where is that rep that you were sending my way! :rolleyes:

[HeyBob]

Twilli, think bob can make me a pro business professional one day ?



Absolutely, and for just 3 easy payments on your visa of $18.95 each. :D :D :D :D

For an additional $29.95 and lunch at Bennigans (you pay) I will make you a flat rate expert.

If you stop by on a Thursday night, I will introduce you to the fascinating Dowadudda for an extra beer! :D