Buensod vav box..

[Air_Head73]

Has anyone heard of this manufacturer? I did a site survery of a building this morning with these boxes. I was able to find some tag info on some of them, but mostly just inlet/outlet size. Some had heaters on them, with no tags. My google search did not turn up much, and the building owner was no help with drawings.
Thanks guys!

[absrbrtek]

Tuttle and Bailey now own them. http://www.tuttleandbailey.com/Corporate/CorporateHistory.asp

[mak99]

Ironic timing - I just came across these same boxes a few weeks ago for a retail store remodel, and found this forum via a Google search. I've never heard of this mfr, either. At least the schedule on the drawing was helpful as the boxes had absolutely no tags on them - unless they were on the (inaccessible) top panel...?

Thanks for the link, absrbrtek!

[Air_Head73]

Yea, the as-built drawings i received were no help at all. No duct sizes, everything was single line ductwork, and no schedules on the drawings whatsoever. I was able to get a few boxes with some legible label info, as far as inlet size and airflow. Probably going to have to have a pre-construction airflow test done before i can finish the design.

[mak99]

Glad you got some info from the label on the box. I also called my local Tuttle & Bailey rep to see if he could dig up something. My original dwgs just show design cfm/min cfm/inlet size. It would be nice to have a cfm range for each inlet size so I know how much airflow I could get out of each reused box.

Any chance you might share the label info you found? I'd be glad to PM you my email...

Thanks!

[Air_Head73]

Sure, pm me your email.. i have a model number and serial number for some of them.. maybe it would help out on your end as well.

[mak99]

Thanks - but I don't see an option to PM you? Is that something you need to toggle on under your "Edit Options" area?

Otherwise, feel free to PM me your info (I have it toggled on), and I'll email you right back. I'll also pass along any useful info I might get from the local T&B rep.

[SNOOPDOG1951]

I WORK AT THE #1 HOSPITAL IN THE WORLD, JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL,ON CONTRACT TO DO TEST AND BALANCE WORK AS NEEDED. BUENSOD BOXES ARE THRUOUT THE COMPLEX, ON THE OLDER BUILDINGS. ALL OF THESE BOXES I HAVE SEEN ARE PRESSURE DEPENDENT, AND ARE SLOWLY BEING PHASED OUT. JUST TODAY I WAS WORKING IN CARDIOLOGY WITH DUAL DUCT BUENSOD BOXES. MOST OF THESE BOXES DO NOT HAVE MODEL#S JUST A INLET DIAMETER AND CFM ON A ALUMINUM TYPE LABEL. THESE BOXES ARE SET UP TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN CFM @ A CERTAIN STATIC PRESSURE. IT IS AMAZING HOW MANY TIMES SYSTEMS ARE INSTALLED WITHOUT ANY MEANS TO REGULATE STATIC PRESSURE OR FAN SPEED, EASILY ACCOMPLISHED VIA INLET VORTEX DAMPERS, VFD DRIVES,AND /OR STATIC PRESSURE SENSORS INSTALLED DOWNSTREAM OF THE SYSTEM. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU NEED AND I AM PRETTY SURE I HAVE INFO WHEN I RETURN TO THE HOME BASE ON MONDAY 10/27/2008. IT IS GOOD TO KNOW THAT PEOPLE STILL CARE ABOUT THEIR JOB, I THOUGHT I WAS ALONE.

[greg_jci_lou_ky]

I have a Buensod submittal cut sheet copy that shows CFM range for type 4H through 10H dual duct units. Will that help you?

I've got a question about the assembly on the inside of the boxes. It has a rubberized canvas and spring assembly that I guess has something to do with maintaining static pressure at the box inlet ???

Any of you more experienced folks know what this is/does and if there is a repair plan I can use to fix these???

Thanks - Greg

[nik99]

when faced with existing buensod units you basically have 3 choices
1. run away fast, hopefully another contractor will lose his shirt trying to source and fix this junk.
2. rip them out and replace with a modern vav single our dual duct box from either Nailor, Price or Titus.
3. purchase a retrofit kit from one of the above and spend a bunch of time installing and coordinating the relevant sizes and bolt hole configurations of the internal regulators. Note for those of you in hospital settings: Certain years of Buensod units used a fibreglass insulation without a high density cover. Inside those units the air will have eroded the fibreglass to dust. Rip out the entire units and replace with modern ones or there will be all kinds of fibleglass dust coming out your diffusers for the next few months and they will be noisy.

[JRINJAX]

I WORK AT THE #1 HOSPITAL IN THE WORLD, JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL,ON CONTRACT TO DO TEST AND BALANCE WORK AS NEEDED. BUENSOD BOXES ARE THRUOUT THE COMPLEX, ON THE OLDER BUILDINGS. ALL OF THESE BOXES I HAVE SEEN ARE PRESSURE DEPENDENT, AND ARE SLOWLY BEING PHASED OUT. JUST TODAY I WAS WORKING IN CARDIOLOGY WITH DUAL DUCT BUENSOD BOXES. MOST OF THESE BOXES DO NOT HAVE MODEL#S JUST A INLET DIAMETER AND CFM ON A ALUMINUM TYPE LABEL. THESE BOXES ARE SET UP TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN CFM @ A CERTAIN STATIC PRESSURE. IT IS AMAZING HOW MANY TIMES SYSTEMS ARE INSTALLED WITHOUT ANY MEANS TO REGULATE STATIC PRESSURE OR FAN SPEED, EASILY ACCOMPLISHED VIA INLET VORTEX DAMPERS, VFD DRIVES,AND /OR STATIC PRESSURE SENSORS INSTALLED DOWNSTREAM OF THE SYSTEM. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU NEED AND I AM PRETTY SURE I HAVE INFO WHEN I RETURN TO THE HOME BASE ON MONDAY 10/27/2008. IT IS GOOD TO KNOW THAT PEOPLE STILL CARE ABOUT THEIR JOB, I THOUGHT I WAS ALONE. Most Hospitals work off of fixed gradient pressures so they need CV boxes to maintain the pressure gradients.
BTW, My Cousin is one of the pioneer surgeons for kidney transplants at JH.

[greg_jci_lou_ky]

I'm sorry I'm not a vav guy. Mainly refrigeration....
Internal to the box there is a slide damper to regulate the hot and cold deck. It is working fine. It appear that the device inside the Buensod box which has a spring loaded fabric type damper is bad. I can't figure what the device is supposed to do? Does it regulate static pressure when the hot vs cold deck changes flow?

This is something I have not seen before. I'd like to remove the assembly, repair it, and re-install it. It only has 4 bolts holding it behind the inlet damper slider assembly. It is easy to remove but I can't determine my best fix without knowing what the heck it us supposed to be doing in the first place.

Anybody got an idea of what the assembly actually does for the system?

Thanks for your help!

Greg

[JRINJAX]

Some of the CV boxes have a spring loaded device downstream of the H/C deck that maintains constant static pressure/airflow, sort of like how an Autoflo/Griswald valve maintains a "set" water flow.

[nik99]

the assembly is the constant volume regulator. it uses "calibrated springs" to regulate the constant volume at different pressures. different springs (colors) and an adjustment screw give so called constant volume at different pressure ranges. Mickey mouse when new, now its just junk.
See link below. Price makes a kit to replace the old regulator with new one.
The existing springs will be "uncalibrated" after twenty years...

http://www.price-hvac.com/catalog/F_all/SectionF.aspx?pageRequest=D75_1

[SNOOPDOG1951]

I'm sorry I'm not a vav guy. Mainly refrigeration....
Internal to the box there is a slide damper to regulate the hot and cold deck. It is working fine. It appear that the device inside the Buensod box which has a spring loaded fabric type damper is bad. I can't figure what the device is supposed to do? Does it regulate static pressure when the hot vs cold deck changes flow?

This is something I have not seen before. I'd like to remove the assembly, repair it, and re-install it. It only has 4 bolts holding it behind the inlet damper slider assembly. It is easy to remove but I can't determine my best fix without knowing what the heck it us supposed to be doing in the first place.

Anybody got an idea of what the assembly actually does for the system?

Thanks for your help!

Greg

WITHOUT SEEING THE BOX I AM GOING TO SURMIZE THE FABRIC TYPE DAMPER IS SOME SORT OF BELLOWS WHICH ON A CALL FOR COOLING WOULD INFLATE OR DELFLATE DEPENDING IF THE COLD DECK/HOT DECK IS NORMALLY OPEN OR NORMALLY CLOSED AND IF THE TSTAT IS DIRECT ACTING OR REVERSE ACTING. IF YOU CAN FIND A REPLACEMENT BELLOWS FOR THIS BOX BY ALL MEANS USE IT, IF NOT REPLACE THE BOX. MOST OF THE BUENSOD BOXES INTERNAL LINING DETERIORATES AND THE FIBERGLASS TRAVELS DOWNSTREAM TO THE FIRST AVAILABLE COLLECTION SPOT. JUST REMEMBER IT IS PROBABLY JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE SLIDE DAMPER MALFUNCTIONS,UNLESS THIS DAMPER IS A MANUAL DAMPER.,THIS SLIDE DAMPER DOES IT HAVE ANY PNEUMATICS TO IT OR IS IT MANUAL?

[cartercrew]

I'm sorry I'm not a vav guy. Mainly refrigeration....


I am glad to see that you are willing to learn, and more willing to admit that you need to. In controls and vav systems, if there were more people willing to ask questions, the world would be a better place.

[cartercrew]

oops!!!

[greg_jci_lou_ky]

nik99. Your link to the price website was a huge help! Thanks that is exactly what the device is. Now I can contact Price and get a price on the part to repair the existing units which otherwise seem to be in good shape.

Thank you so much!

Greg :)

[Bocheetus]

I'm sorry I'm not a vav guy. Mainly refrigeration....
Internal to the box there is a slide damper to regulate the hot and cold deck. It is working fine. It appear that the device inside the Buensod box which has a spring loaded fabric type damper is bad. I can't figure what the device is supposed to do? Does it regulate static pressure when the hot vs cold deck changes flow?

This is something I have not seen before. I'd like to remove the assembly, repair it, and re-install it. It only has 4 bolts holding it behind the inlet damper slider assembly. It is easy to remove but I can't determine my best fix without knowing what the heck it us supposed to be doing in the first place.

Anybody got an idea of what the assembly actually does for the system?

Thanks for your help!

Greg

You have described a VAV not a cv. The ones I just came accross in Sacramento CA were installed in 1972(the blueprints(real blueprints) specified Tuttle and Bailey or equivilent.) Also, the ones I have surveyed (I am an Air Balance Technician) were destroyed pretty much. The plans called for these boxes to deliver design CFM at no more than .75 delta P and I was unable to get design air with 6 INCHES.

[PAEngineer]

Was anyone able to get any old cut sheets or information for these old dual duct Buensod boxes? I am working on a hospital that is looking to replace some of them, but I am having trouble finding information. I am going to contact Tuttle and Bailey to see if they can help, but I thought I would ask

Thanks

[beenthere]

Moved to Tech to Tech Commercial forum.


PAEngineer. Please read our site rules. You are not allowed to post in threads in the AOP forums, unless you apply and get approved. In this forum, you may though.

I moved the thread here, as it sounds lie you are in the trade.