why not paganism

[acmanko]

for thousands of years before Christ, Pagans ruled the world. Things were not so bad, if the going got tough , there was always some god to pray to, and they listened.

[bootlen]

Don't worry, ac. You'll get your wish.

Enjoy it though. It's only gonna last 7 years. Then the band expects to be paid.

[acmanko]

care to elobarate on that comment

[coolwhip]

I have no problem with Paganism. Believe in whatever you want, as long as it makes you happy and you dont hurt others because of it.

[bootlen]

care to elobarate on that comment

Don't they teach Scripture in Catholic churches?

[acmanko]

Don't they teach Scripture in Catholic churches?
Nope, they do teach it in Catholic schools. A mass consists of two reading from either the ACTS of the OT, followed by a reading from one of the Gospels < a Homily and then the consecration of the wine and bread into the Body and Blood
of JC. their is a recital of the Nicean Creed , the Lords Prayer and a group confession of sins . all in all about 45 minutes and then outa there. Back to Paganism. If your god was sronger then another persons or rulers god then you won the battle and did whatever it took to control the vanquised, unlike One god worshiped by three peoples in different ways. i.e. the god of abraham is Allah,Yaweh and the Christian god, just worshipped differently.

[bootlen]

Knock yer Catholic self out.

[acmanko]

this is more about doing away with One God and having a plethora of them

[bootlen]

this is more about doing away with One God and having a plethora of them

Like I said...knock yerself out. I won't miss ya.

[acmanko]

I think you are lying:D

[bootlen]

I think you are lying:D

You're just having a wet dream. Yer gonna make geer jealous if you keep that up.

[newoldtech]

I bet the people that believed in Pagen Gods years ago thought they were as real as the people that believe in God do now. Whats the difference if you believe in one God you can't hear or see, or several?

[geerair]

I bet the people that believed in Pagen Gods years ago thought they were as real as the people that believe in God do now. Whats the difference if you believe in one God you can't hear or see, or several?Old gods evolve into new gods. Or rather new gods are created from older gods.



Take the Judeo/Christian god.........it is nothing more than a plagiarism of older so called Pagan gods with the same stories, beliefs and rituals.

Just as man created the Pagen gods, so the J/C god was created by man from earlier gods.

[Carnak]

Lol, why not a flame thrower manko

[RoBoTeq]

I figure that Pagan beliefs stemmed from ancient peoples being spiritually contacted. There are enough simimlarities in some Pagan stories to Judeo/Christian stories to allow us to believe that those who developed Pagan ways were being contacted by God and just didn't understand what God was trying to communicate.

It seems obvious though that many Pagan influences may also have stemmed from Satan rather then God. Either that or the people really messed up on their understanding of God.

I feel that Pagan's were in communication with the same God and Satan of the Judeo/Christian faith, only they did not understand what they were being communicated. I know that even today, we don't fully get it. If we did, the end would be here for us all to join God in His spiritual realm.

[acmanko]

The Immortals

The Immortals
Name Description/(Keywords) Roman Name
Aphrodite Aphrodite, the golden goddess of Love; born of the blood of Ouranos (the Heavens) and the foam of the sea.
(Aphrodite, Venus) Venus
Apollon Apollon, the son of Zeus and Leto; the brother of Artemis.
(Apollo, Apollon, Phoibos Apollon, the Striker from Afar) Apollo
Ares Ares, the god of War; the son of Zeus and Hera.
(Ares, Aries, Mars, God of War) Mars
Artemis Artemis, Diana
(Artemis, Diana) Diana
Athene (Athena) Athene, the goddess of Wisdom; the daughter of Zeus and Metis; the virgin goddess of intellect and invention.
(Athene, Athena, Pallas Athene, Tritogeneia, Glaukopis, Minerva) Minerva
Demeter Demeter, the goddess of the Harvest; the daughter of Kronos (Cronos) and Rheia (Rhea).
(Demeter, Ceres) Ceres
Dione Dione, the Mother Goddess of Mount Olympos (Olympus).
(Dione)
Eos Eos, the Dawn; mother of the Winds.
(Dawn, Eos, Erigeneia)
Enyo Enyo, one of the Graiai (the Gray Sisters); the daughters of Keto (Ceto) and Phorkys (Phorcys).
(Enyo, Bellona, Gray Sisters, Graiai) Bellona
Erida Erida, the wearisome goddess of Hate.
(Erida, Hate)
Erinyes Erinys, the Mist-Walking and the Kindly One; punisher of the unfaithful.
(Erinyes, Erinys, Furiae, Furies, Tisiphone, Megaera, Alecto, Alekto) Furiae
Eris Eris, the goddess of Discord and Strife.
(Eris, Discordia, Discord) Discordia
Eros Eros, the primal god of Love; using arrows of gold and lead, he would wound the hearts of mortals and Immortals alike.
(Eros, Cupid) Cupid
Eurynome Eurynome, one of the many daughters of Ocean; the mother of the Graces.
(Eurynome)
Fates The Fates, the Daughters of Necessity; born of Zeus and Themis.
(Fates, Morae, Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos, Klotho, Lakhesis, Moiras, Keras, Moirai, Moira) Morae
Gorgons Gorgons, the daughters of Phorkys and Keto (Ceto); with snakes about their heads and wrists, Medusa, Sthenno and Euryale were so hideous, the shock of seeing them would turn anyone to stone.
(Gorgon, Medusa, Sthenno, Euryale)
Graces Graces, the daughters of Zeus and Eurynome; the attendants of Aphrodite (goddess of Love) and the incarnations of Grace and Charm.
(The Graces, Graces, Aglaia, Euphrosyne, Thalia, The Charities, Charities) Charities
Hades Hades, Lord of the Underworld; the son of Kronos (Cronos) and Rheia (Rhea).
(Hades, Underworld, Pluto) Pluto
Hebe Hebe, the goddess of Youth; the daughter of Zeus and Hera; the wife of Herakles (Heracles).
(Hebe, Youth)
Helios Helios, the Sun; the son of Hyperion and Eryphaesa; he sees everything his light touches.
(Helios, Sun God, the Sun) Apollo
Hephaistos (Hephaestus) Hephaistos, the god of the Smith; the son of Hera and artificer of the Olympians.
(Hephaistos, Hephaestus, Vulcan) Vulcan
Hera Hera, the daughter of Kronos (Cronos) and Rheia (Rhea); the wife to Zeus; the most beautiful of the Immortals.
(Hera, Juno) Juno
Herakles (Heracles) Herakles, the ultimate hero; the son of Zeus and Alkmene (Alcmene).
(Herakles, Hercules, The Twelve Labors) Hercules
Hermes Hermes, the wing shod messenger of the Olympians; the son of Zeus and Maia.
(Hermes, Mercury, Argeiphontes) Mercury
Hestia Hestia, the virgin goddess of the Hearth and humble domestic joy.
(Hestia, Vesta) Vesta
Hyperion Hyperion, the Titan; father of Helios (the Sun), Eos (the Dawn) and Selene (the Moon).
(Hyperion)
Hypnos Hypnos, the god of Sleep; a child of Nix (Night) and the brother of Thanatos (Death).
(Hypnos, Somnus) Somnus
Io Io, the Heifer-Maiden who rejected the love of Zeus.
(Io, Heifer-Maiden)
Iris Iris, the Wind-Footed messenger of the Immortals.
(Iris)
Kalypso (Calypso) Kalypso, the queenly Nymph and lover of Odysseus.
(Calypso, Kalypso, Nymph, Nymphs)
Kheiron (Chiron) Kheiron, the most righteous of the Centaurs; the powerful master of many arts and sciences.
(Cheiron, Kheiron, Centaurs, Centaur, Eurytion)
Kirke (Circe) Kirke, the Dread Goddess; the daughter of Helios and the mistress of potions and spells.
(Circe, Kirke)
Kronos (Cronos) Kronos, the Titan; father of the Olympians.
(Kronos, Cronos, Cronus, Saturn) Saturn
Leto Leto, the consort of Zeus and mother of Apollon and Artemis.
(Leto)
Muses The Muses attend the festivals on Olympos and entertain and inspire the other gods with their wit and charm.
(Muses, Mousai)
Nereids The Nereids, the fifty daughters of Nereus and Doris.
(The Nereids, Nereids, Thetis, Agaue, Aktaia, Amphinome, Amphithoe, Apseudes, Dexamene, Doris, Doto, Dynamene, Galateia, Glauke, Halia, Iaira, Ianassa, Ianeira, Kallianassa, Kallianeira, Klymene, Kumodoke, Kumothoe, Limnoreia, Maira, Melite, Nemertes, Nesaie, Oreithyia, Pherousa, Panope, Proto, Speio, Thaleia, Thoe)
Odysseus Odysseus, the hero of the Trojan War and the long suffering traveler in The Odyssey.
(Odysseus, Ulysses) Ulysses
Orai,
The Hours Orai, the three sisters, Eunomia (Harmony), Dyke (Justice) and Eirene (Peace) assist the Olympians by organizing the Seasons and adding balance to Nature.
(Hours, The Hours, Eunomia, Dyke, Eiren, Horae, The Horae, Orai) Horae
Pan Pan, the Goat-God; he prances through the fertile countryside in the company of Nymphs playing his seven-reed pipe in wild abandon.
(Pan, Faunus, Goat God) Faunus
Persephone Persephone, the daughter of Demeter and Zeus; the wife of Hades and queen of the Underworld.
(Persephone, Proserpina) Proserpina
Poseidon Poseidon, the lord the Sea; son of Kronos (Cronos) and Rheia (Rhea).
(Poseidon, Neptune) Neptune
Prometheus Prometheus, the rebel god; in defiance of Zeus, he gave fire and other comforts to the mortals on the earth.
(Prometheus)
Rheia (Rhea) Rheia, the wife of devious Kronos (Cronos) and mother to the Olympians.
(Rheia, Rhea)
Rivers Rivers; the children of Okeanos (Ocean); Immortals who have chosen rivers as their earthly bodies.
(Rivers, Acheloios, Akheloios, Aiseopos, Alpheios, Asopos, Axios, Boagrios, Grenikos, Gyge, Hermos, Hyllos, Hypereia, Karesos, Kephisos, Lykia, Maiandros, Messeis, Minyeios, Ocean, Okeanos, Parthenios, Peneios, Rhesos, Rhodios, Sangarious, Satnioeis, Simoei, Skamandros, Spercheios, Styx, Titaressos, Xanthos)
Skylla Skylla, the man-eating she-beast with six heads.
(Skylla, Charybdis, Kharybdis)
Styx Styx, the eldest daughter of Okeanos (Ocean) and Tethys; any Immortal who pours the waters of Styx and swears an oath, is solemnly bound to tell only the truth.
(Styx)
Thanatos Thanatos, the god of Death; a child of Nix (Night) and the brother of Hypnos (Sleep).
(Thanatos, Death)
Thetis Thetis, one of the fifty daughters of Nereus and Doris; the wife of Peleus and the mother of Akhilleus (Achilles).
(Thetis)
Winds The Winds are Immortals who have chosen the air as their earthly bodies.
(Winds, Eos, Boreas, Eurus, Notus, Zephyros, North Wind, East Wind, South Wind, West Wind, Kaikias, Caicias, Apeliotes, Lips, Skiron, Sciron)
Zeus Zeus, the Olympian; the son of Kronos (Cronos) and Rheia (Rhea); lord of the Sky.
(Zeus, Jupiter) Jupiter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[acmanko]

There is even a god in that list for folks like Bootlen, those who think the world will end in 7 years.

[acmanko]

Lol, why not a flame thrower manko to many would get hurt

[bootlen]

I figure that Pagan beliefs stemmed from ancient peoples being spiritually contacted. There are enough simimlarities in some Pagan stories to Judeo/Christian stories to allow us to believe that those who developed Pagan ways were being contacted by God and just didn't understand what God was trying to communicate.

It seems obvious though that many Pagan influences may also have stemmed from Satan rather then God. Either that or the people really messed up on their understanding of God.

I feel that Pagan's were in communication with the same God and Satan of the Judeo/Christian faith, only they did not understand what they were being communicated. I know that even today, we don't fully get it. If we did, the end would be here for us all to join God in His spiritual realm.

They understood Him. They just didn't like what He had to say.

[bootlen]

There is even a god in that list for folks like Bootlen, those who think the world will end in 7 years.

Still can't read, can ya? I never said that.

[RoBoTeq]

They understood Him. They just didn't like what He had to say.

It is pure arrogance for anyone to claim they know what others understood, believed or decided on. It is this arrogance that causes the great rift between the Word of God and the deceit of Satan. Which side are you on Booty?

[bootlen]

It is pure arrogance for anyone to claim they know what others understood, believed or decided on. It is this arrogance that causes the great rift between the Word of God and the deceit of Satan. Which side are you on Booty?

I didn't say they understaoiod God. God said it. I am just reporting what God said. You should know this if you read Scriptures as you claim.

[RoBoTeq]

I didn't say they understaoiod God. God said it. I am just reporting what God said. You should know this if you read Scriptures as you claim.

Sorry boots, but when any of us recite scripture we are at best reciting our own interpretation of scripture. Since there are so many interpretations of scripture, how do we know for absolute which one is the right one?

Personally I believe that scripture is meant to be fluid in its teachings. Fluid enough to be viable for any changes in time, peoples and places. This would certainly explain why so many people of faith get so many different viewpoints from the same writings.

[sysint]

Old gods evolve into new gods. Or rather new gods are created from older gods.

Take the Judeo/Christian god.........it is nothing more than a plagiarism of older so called Pagan gods with the same stories, beliefs and rituals.

Just as man created the Pagen gods, so the J/C god was created by man from earlier gods.

Which?

[geerair]

Which?Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian, etc.

[sysint]

Prove that.

[geerair]

See:

The Epic of Gilgamesh

Egyptian religion and myths, especially that of Isis and Osiris

Babylonian religion and myths

Cannanite religion and myths


All predate J/C which incorporates these earlier myths and rituals into the J/C religious myths.

Even a cursory study of these earlier systems will show the parallels to J/C.

[RoBoTeq]

See:

The Epic of Gilgamesh

Egyptian religion and myths, especially that of Isis and Osiris

Babylonian religion and myths

Cannanite religion and myths


All predate J/C which incorporates these earlier myths and rituals into the J/C religious myths.

Even a cursory study of these earlier systems will show the parallels to J/C.

This also supports my theory that God was communicating with these ancient peoples and they just misunderstood what God was communicating.

It seems that once God made a direct pact with a mortal, Abraham, God's Word was better understood. Then, after so much more misunderstanding (chronicled in the Hebrew Bible) God decided to go one step further and actually become a mortal Himself in the form of Jesus of Nazareth.

There is still a communication gap between God and man and Satan does his best to muddy that communication, but we do appear to be getting better with each of God's communication methods.

[sysint]

See:

The Epic of Gilgamesh

Egyptian religion and myths, especially that of Isis and Osiris

Babylonian religion and myths

Cannanite religion and myths


All predate J/C which incorporates these earlier myths and rituals into the J/C religious myths.

Even a cursory study of these earlier systems will show the parallels to J/C.

3 out of 4 I have to dismiss. You have not proved anything, or brought anything to the table. Epic of Gilgamesh. That is more specific. I can work with that. Are you stating that the flood account in the Bible is directly conceived from this "Epic of Gilgamesh"?

[geerair]

3 out of 4 I have to dismiss. You have not proved anything, or brought anything to the table. Hmmmmm......you seem to be unfamiliar with the Osiris myths, the Ugarit people of Cannan and their religion or Babylonian myths and literature.




Epic of Gilgamesh. That is more specific. I can work with that. Are you stating that the flood account in the Bible is directly conceived from this "Epic of Gilgamesh"?The parallels of major points are unmistakeable.

[royc]

Don't worry, ac. You'll get your wish.

Enjoy it though. It's only gonna last 7 years. Then the band expects to be paid.



So, is this the absolute truth? You are certain you are absolutley correct?


Roy

[acmanko]

well roy, I'm glad you know what he's talking about.

[sysint]

Hmmmmm......you seem to be unfamiliar with the Osiris myths, the Ugarit people of Cannan and their religion or Babylonian myths and literature.

The parallels of major points are unmistakeable. I am familiar. You want to vaguely lump some information together.

The "epic" is a different story. Just because you find some similarities doesn't discount both accounts. That's false reasoning. Anyway, the "epic" is a more specific example, so I can work with that one.

[TB]

for thousands of years before Christ, Pagans ruled the world. Things were not so bad, if the going got tough , there was always some god to pray to, and they listened.

Right, infant children were burned alive to Molech, demon posession was rampant, causing blondness, convulsions, insanity, all without a democrat led govn't to provide givaway programs for the lazy. Every time a battle was brought to the Israelites when they did follow God, the Israelites won. Why not follow the weakest gods possible...

...then again, paganism isn't too far removed from Catholicism. I've even talked to some that thought they were compatible.

[bootlen]

So, is this the absolute truth? You are certain you are absolutley correct?


Roy

Well, that's what it says in Scripture and I haven't found it to lie yet. Am I certain it is correct? God said it so I am pretty sure it's correct.

[coolwhip]

Right, infant children were burned alive to Molech, demon posession was rampant, causing blondness, convulsions, insanity, all without a democrat led govn't to provide givaway programs for the lazy. Every time a battle was brought to the Israelites when they did follow God, the Israelites won. Why not follow the weakest gods possible...

...then again, paganism isn't too far removed from Catholicism. I've even talked to some that thought they were compatible.

Sounds like your talking about early christianity.

[acmanko]

Right, infant children were burned alive to Molech, demon posession was rampant, causing blondness, convulsions, insanity, all without a democrat led govn't to provide givaway programs for the lazy. Every time a battle was brought to the Israelites when they did follow God, the Israelites won. Why not follow the weakest gods possible...

...then again, paganism isn't too far removed from Catholicism. I've even talked to some that thought they were compatible.

you very well could be refering to Schlosser and Yates killing babies because God told them to do it, or the killing of thousands of expendable muslim women and children by democracy, but of course Allah, God and Yaweh are one and the same and Catholicism is somewhat close to paganism simply because it is the Mother (first) Christian church to appear Historically.

[scrogdog]

causing blondness

Ouch! ;)

[geerair]

I am familiar. You want to vaguely lump some information together.We will put these various precursor to J/C myths and religions aside for the moment and concentrate on the Epic.





The "epic" is a different story. It is the same story with the basic components borrowed from the Epic myth and incorporated into the J/C myth.

There are trivial differences but these are far outweighed by the almost exact similiarities and the agreement on basic major points.

[sysint]

We will put these various precursor to J/C myths and religions aside for the moment and concentrate on the Epic.

There are trivial differences but these are far outweighed by the almost exact similiarities and the agreement on basic major points.Good. I also understand your opinion as well. Working on it.