A different way of being paid.

[chaard]

Anybody been on production based pay? Have you gotten a flat salary and commission on parts or equipment sold? Is PBP any good?

[dash]

Most here will disagree.but PBP ,if setup fairly can be a boost in income for the better techs ,service or install.


Federal law requires that earning for the pay period be divided by the number of hours worked and overtime paid on anything over 40 hours worked in week.This is sometimes overlooked.

[AIR PRO]

IMHO, it is an open invitation for a dishonest tech to rip off your customers. It makes the company and the tech great money(dishonestly I might add) at first until it catches up with you and you have angry customers and the BBB calling you. There are a few companies here that do it, and their reputation is in the toilet because of it.

[Tech Rob]

A lot of residential companies around here pay this way, and it seems to work very well for some. Simpson Mechanical for example... brand new fleet of vehicles, brand new 12,000 s.f. office/warehouse, etc... They must be doing something right.

Would I ever work for a piece/flat rate per job? @#$% no.

[esornivram]

how does flat rate compensate you for training?
federal law requires this
how does flat rate compensate you for travel?
federal law requires this
hoW does flat rate compensate you for warrenty work?
Federal law requires this
how does flat rate compensate you for being on call?
federal law requires this
how does flat rate compensate you overtime calls?
yes ot is federal regulated stated as required for over 40 hours

any more questions?

or that the seller of work gets the bonus, but the dispatcher sends you to do the work and you cant get any bonus cause it was paid to the tech who sold an condenser install when only the capacitor had burned wire and compressor was drawing LRA cause of that,
of they send you help another guy do install he sold but then they dont share the bonus money,
or you have to go and find out why an install dont work, yep the installers are also PBP, so they send you, the tech, so how r you compensated?
the list can be expanded, but there isnt time tonight

[coolestacman]

this is all true what ever you call it it is a race to the bottom

My boss went down this road not too long ago and with everyone looking at it and trying to build a fair system we found that there was two much of a chance that some one would get screwed.

We are still Hourly

[heatingman]

Anybody been on production based pay? Have you gotten a flat salary and commission on parts or equipment sold? Is PBP any good?

It's a good way to get treated like dirt, If company bills flat rate fine, or give bonuses for selling new equiptment fine, but paying solely on revenue generation, lets the company treat you like dirt. Many companies thrive on fresh out of tech school types, but look at the most senior tech for a company like this and I bet you'll find 5 years w/ company tops. A good place to work will have an older staff thats been w/ the company for 15 plus years. Those are the companies you should strive to work for. I would never work for a company that pays this way. If you're honest, you get ripped off, and if you make out, you're a thief.

[skippedover]

Okay, let's look at it a little differently. Suppose you went into business for yourself. How do you get paid? In that case, you get paid by the job, right? If you do a good job and price the job properly, you get a good 'hourly' wage when you divide it out. But let's assume for a moment that you charge the customer for a repair but that doesn't solve the problem. Now it's a callback/warranty call. Can you see your pay going down? The simple fact is that a business relies on it's techs to do high quality work and do it correctly. So in your market, if you're able to do the job in, for example, 60-minutes, you expect to make X$$. But what if another tech, same company, same repair takes 90-minutes. You get paid $2/hr, he gets $2.00. You completed your job and are on to another, he's still doing the first one. You received $2 for doing the job, he gets $2.50 for the same job. If the boss flat rated the job at $2.50, you would have received $2.50 for that job and be on to the next one to make more flat rate money. The other tech will also receive $2.50 for his 90 minutes on the job but you'll make more at the end of the day because you were expedient. What flat rate reallly does is challenge techs to put their money where their mouths are. Automobile dealerships and collision centers have been paying flat rate for years. Their techs are good, they make more than they ever would on hourly and they meet all of the state and federal laws. It's just a mindset guys. If you're half as good as you think you are, if you're ethical (not creating unneeded repairs) and if you're experienced, you can easily make more money on flat rate than hourly. But just need to have the guts to do it.

[jrbenny]

Why should the tech assume the risk of the business owner?

I'm not a fan.

[esornivram]

Okay, let's look at it a little differently. Suppose you went into business for yourself. How do you get paid? In that case, you get paid by the job, right? If you do a good job and price the job properly, you get a good 'hourly' wage when you divide it out. But let's assume for a moment that you charge the customer for a repair but that doesn't solve the problem. Now it's a callback/warranty call. Can you see your pay going down? The simple fact is that a business relies on it's techs to do high quality work and do it correctly. So in your market, if you're able to do the job in, for example, 60-minutes, you expect to make X$$. But what if another tech, same company, same repair takes 90-minutes. You get paid $2/hr, he gets $2.00. You completed your job and are on to another, he's still doing the first one. You received $2 for doing the job, he gets $2.50 for the same job. If the boss flat rated the job at $2.50, you would have received $2.50 for that job and be on to the next one to make more flat rate money. The other tech will also receive $2.50 for his 90 minutes on the job but you'll make more at the end of the day because you were expedient. What flat rate reallly does is challenge techs to put their money where their mouths are. Automobile dealerships and collision centers have been paying flat rate for years. Their techs are good, they make more than they ever would on hourly and they meet all of the state and federal laws. It's just a mindset guys. If you're half as good as you think you are, if you're ethical (not creating unneeded repairs) and if you're experienced, you can easily make more money on flat rate than hourly. But just need to have the guts to do it.

just why are companies going to flat rate?
cause they dont want to pay a good tech his fair wage is what i have experienced.
they want to put the pressure of management on the tech, however thats the office personell's responsibility
if i wanted to have the head ache of that
i would be self employed and be the owner
lastly if..big if.. chilton had been making flat rate manuals for 50 years on ac units and their install jobs like they did with cars, it might be a fair thing
but they havent and it aint
lastly does the company guarantee enough calls?
i work four weeks for a company that had 10 techs, covered 3 towns in three counties and all i did was drive around in circles. i spent 50% of my week driving back and forth, nothing covered those hours and as soon as i brought it up i got less calls, didnt take but a day to decide to move on

[heatingman]

Okay, let's look at it a little differently. Suppose you went into business for yourself. How do you get paid? In that case, you get paid by the job, right? If you do a good job and price the job properly, you get a good 'hourly' wage when you divide it out. But let's assume for a moment that you charge the customer for a repair but that doesn't solve the problem. Now it's a callback/warranty call. Can you see your pay going down? The simple fact is that a business relies on it's techs to do high quality work and do it correctly. So in your market, if you're able to do the job in, for example, 60-minutes, you expect to make X$$. But what if another tech, same company, same repair takes 90-minutes. You get paid $2/hr, he gets $2.00. You completed your job and are on to another, he's still doing the first one. You received $2 for doing the job, he gets $2.50 for the same job. If the boss flat rated the job at $2.50, you would have received $2.50 for that job and be on to the next one to make more flat rate money. The other tech will also receive $2.50 for his 90 minutes on the job but you'll make more at the end of the day because you were expedient. What flat rate reallly does is challenge techs to put their money where their mouths are. Automobile dealerships and collision centers have been paying flat rate for years. Their techs are good, they make more than they ever would on hourly and they meet all of the state and federal laws. It's just a mindset guys. If you're half as good as you think you are, if you're ethical (not creating unneeded repairs) and if you're experienced, you can easily make more money on flat rate than hourly. But just need to have the guts to do it.


The difference between car company, and a/c company, is that if a/c company gets no revenue, then niether does the tech.
What about the senior techs that go back to the new guys calls, should the senior tech work for free? Or, warranty work, Factory defect etc.. does the tech have to eat that time? Car dealers pay book time regardless of billable or warranty, and there is no travel job to job, and typically there so back logged for work, they work 60 hours a week, just to stay caught up. Also every car they work on is the same manufacturer, they don't run for parts, etc... It is a different ball game for us.

[refrigerationtech]

ive just left a company like this and i tell ya its so damm true. but whats to the tech to do. either live with it or dont and i dicided hey fight my stand with it and ended up were im here. oh well my gain there loss cause im a strong beleiver in doing the job right and changing parts that only need fixing but unfortunatly not what i saw happen. flat rate stinks and to be honest should not of been allowed in our industry. like said the tech should not take the repossibilities of the company hes out there to fix the issue not run the business. what ever work time ya do should be paid for. regardless of time constrants.

[refrigerationtech]

ive just left a company like this and i tell ya its so damm true. but whats to the tech to do. either live with it or dont and i dicided hey fight my stand with it and ended up were im here. oh well my gain there loss cause im a strong beleiver in doing the job right and changing parts that only need fixing but unfortunatly not what i saw happen. flat rate stinks and to be honest should not of been allowed in our industry. like said the tech should not take the repossibilities of the company hes out there to fix the issue not run the business. what ever work time ya do should be paid for. regardless of time constrants.

[coolestacman]

Everybody should look at it this way, if the company thinks it is a good idea.
I would start looking at it another way. Is it good for me.
From past experience I have found for 99% of the companies, they are in it for themselves, in my time in the industry i have only found 1 company that really cared about their employees and they closed because of family issues.

Really most companies are self serving and forcing peice work shows that, I think you should become selfserving and get protection

GO UNION!!!!!!

[esornivram]

GO UNION!!!!!![/B][/QUOTE]
cause the top dogs at ENRON told their employees it was great to invest in the company and we know how that BS ended
or you could have worked at MCI and you should buy the stock cause they told you it was a good idea

YEA RIGHT, think for your selves and dont be lead like Lemmons to the cliff!!!!

[The Penguin]

companies want to extract their profit from each job individually and minmise their risks and max their returns. they dangle the $$ signs in front of the techs and if there's a problem it allows them to blame the tech for the problems giving the company the "clear consicnce"

I know I'd be successfull flate rate as I have worked "billable hours"before and I always "beat the clock" I do not want to go flate rate cause I don't want the hassle that goes with it

in the end if a tech is too successfull the company will find a way to bone the tech - I gurranty that

[chaard]

I wasn't expecting so many responses on this issue. Thanks for the replies.

My boss wants me to go on PBP but I told him last week that I wasn't interested. I told him I was comfortable where I was at.

He claims that I will make more money on PBP but I don't see it that way.
His thinking is, is that I will get a flat salary each week, somewhere between $400-$600, plus a commission on parts and equipment sold.

He's already paying me pretty good, why mess with a good thing. I want to know that if I work 40 hrs. I will get paid for 40 hrs. Not $400 and some possible commissions that will fluctuate week to week.
I just don't want to play games with my paycheck. I'm not going to go with PBP.
I'm not a salesman and don't want to be.
I just want to fix what is broken, recommend what needs to be repaired/replaced and get to the next call.

My boss is a big believer in selling gimmicks. He used to be a salesman. He's more interested in going to sales seminars on NU22, installing Hard start kits on every unit, and replacing every part under the sun that is connected to the one, and only one part, that is bad.

I'm not a parts changer. And I am not going to sell customers a gas valve, pilot assy, tubing and t-couple just cause the pilot went out on their furnace. That's the only way one could make money on PBP and I'm not doing it.

Training classes? Those are a bunch of crock he thinks. RSES classes are a waste of time and money.
Looks like I may not make it to Comfortech '07 unless I pay for it. And I live in St. Louis. Maybe I'll meet up with some of you after dinner.

Like I have said before I'm only here for the paycheck. If I ever get my County license I'm out of here.

[refrigerationtech]

The Penguin, i think its so damm true what ya said cause after i ended up say heck why should i be dumb and be honest. so basically get in there do the job required as fast as i could got like 54hr in that week and prob ended like only really doing prob less than the 40hrs. one reason i think they said customers complaints against prob the time i took on sight vrs time billed to them. or jobs i was told to repair other tech diagnosed but i replaced compressor went over on the time alotted and then prob got complaint cause he sent out other tech to diagnose the problem which was a condensor fan issue which worked at time. oh well beleive me like said flat rate only helps the company and puts all the issues to you.


in the end if a tech is too successfull the company will find a way to bone the tech - I gurranty that[/QUOTE]

[dash]

Why should the tech assume the risk of the business owner?

I'm not a fan.


I don't see it as assuming the risk of the owner,just the risk of the techs own work.

What if the average wage in an area was 18 to 21 per hour and ,there was flat rate pay ,with a gaureanteed 19 or 20 per hour?

Flat rate has the potential to attract the best techs ,as better techs will make more then an average tech would,if the rate is fair.

[AIR PRO]

I don't see it as assuming the risk of the owner,just the risk of the techs own work.

What if the average wage in an area was 18 to 21 per hour and ,there was flat rate pay ,with a gaureanteed 19 or 20 per hour?

Flat rate has the potential to attract the best techs ,as better techs will make more then an average tech would,if the rate is fair.


I agree in principal, but it also has the potential to attract unethical parts changers, which IMO is what it usually does....around here anyway. I get calls from people who have been ripped off by one company in particular here where they changed the same parts(contactor and capacitor) on 4 or five neighbors while doing pm's in the same day,same condo bldg. some of these units are only a year or 2 old. I went to one yesterday, they sold her a condensate float switch and said they cleaned her evap coil.....90 year old woman. coil was untouched, and the so called tech that installed the float switch aparently didn't have any pvc glue so guess what he used .....electrical tape to seal all the pvc joints! soaked her for $450 and was only there for 20 minutes. :mad:

[skorepeo]

piece rate is ok for new construction but not for service.

as long as the rate is fair and there is a check and balance system a tech or installer can make a good wage and it is nice to know how much you can make extra if you need to.

for instance if you know that you can install a condenser in 2 hours and the rate is 50 per condenser you make 200 per day in an 8 hour day. but if you want to have a little extra for the weekend to spend on your wifes birthday then you work 10 hours a day and know that you will have 250 extra that will buy her some perfume and you a nice dvd player.

the check and balance system is that if you mess up you must fix your own mistake you get paid to do the job once only so do it right the first time.

now a service tech might be inclined to pad his pay by replacing components that do not need replaced or tell a customer that they need a new unit when all they need is a motor. by the time the dishonest techs are found out your company reputation is already bad.

just my opinion

[chaard]

for instance if you know that you can install a condenser in 2 hours and the rate is 50 per condenser you make 200 per day in an 8 hour day.
just my opinion

Nice theory, but your leaving out windshield time. Not to mention 13 seer condensers require 13 seer A-coils as well.

Might point is that each day is different and nothing goes as planned.