Imagine

[chillbilly]

John Lennon wrote the song, Imagine after the Beatles disbanded and recorded the song on his album entitled "Imagine" which was produced by Phil Spector.
The song was voted #3 most popular song of all time by Rolling Stone magazine in 04' and it's cultural legacy and accolaides are abundant.
"The song has also received a number of criticisms due to what some have seen as practised hypocrisy".

Does the song, written by John Lennon, advocate a communist agenda or is it merely a little bit of surreal?

[bootlen]

The guy did LSD with regularity. He married the ugliest female to ever stand on any amount of legs, and you are trying to make sense of one of his songs?:eek:

Go ahead, Fred.:cool:

[scrogdog]

Quite communist, in my view.

Lennon was the ultimate commie and peace-nik, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. I think he was kind of a wierd guy, but hey, he had his beliefs and he is welcome to them.

I'm not one of those who thinks that "commie" is neceassarily a negative term. Certainly the experience that this planet has had with forced communisim is nothing to be proud of, and communism is, in my view, rightly seen in this day and age as unworkable.

But, as social theory, it sort of sounds good on paper, until one realizes that to live in that way would suck just about everything that makes us human beings right out of us.

Man continues to wrestle with his nature. Those who can't accept the nature of man, well, those are the John Lennon's of the world.

[chillbilly]

The guy did LSD with regularity. He married the ugliest female to ever stand on any amount of legs, and you are trying to make sense of one of his songs?:eek:

Go ahead, Fred.:cool:

LOL
That must have been some good sheyt he was droppin'.
:D :D

[chillbilly]

Quite communist, in my view.

Lennon was the ultimate commie and peace-nik, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. I think he was kind of a wierd guy, but hey, he had his beliefs and he is welcome to them.

I'm not one of those who thinks that "commie" is neceassarily a negative term. Certainly the experience that this planet has had with forced communisim is nothing to be proud of, and communism is, in my view, rightly seen in this day and age as unworkable.

But, as social theory, it sort of sounds good on paper, until one realizes that to live in that way would suck just about everything that makes us human beings right out of us.

Man continues to wrestle with his nature. Those who can't accept the nature of man, well, those are the John Lennon's of the world.


I agree. I have followed the Beatles and particularly Lennon since I was a kid.
I believe he was a musical genius and a masterful writer.
I have my own opinion of what I think Lennon was trying to get across with the song, but I just wanted to get the "diverse" responses we always seem get here in ARP. :D :D

[whec720]

I'm not a big Beatles fan by any means, but will agree, John Lennon had the most talent. He was the superior song writer, miles ahead of Paul. Ringo and Harrison were just along for the ride and EXTREMELY lucky. John was also the better vocalist of the four.
Unfortunately, He was a classic case of an individual who could not see the forest for the trees. Like all libs, he only allows himself to see what he wants to see. They design their own reality to give them the control they desire in their lives. This gives them comfort and righteousness. The morale high ground and superior intelligence. In other words, being full of yourself.
I think Imagine was a song about John, himself. He is trying to convey his own personal thoughts on his liberalism. Agree or disagree with him, John was atleast honest on his view of the world and the way it should be. Unlike the stealth, cowardly liberals that rule today.

[chillbilly]

I think Imagine was a song about John, himself. He is trying to convey his own personal thoughts on his liberalism. Agree or disagree with him, John was at least honest on his view of the world and the way it should be. Unlike the stealth, cowardly liberals that rule today.

Yeah, I kinda' agree with you on this one whec.
The thing that I like about his writing is how it evokes the surreal and elicits' imagination.
The what-if's and the could be's. :p
When I was young, I had the notion that things could be different and now I can't even conjure up a notion because of the way my life has been determined and styled.
Somewhere along the way I became a realist and stopped dreaming.:cool:

I think Lennon was a good chap, just playing his music and living peacefully.
I never saw what he was saying as a threat or anything that would warrant the FBI investigating him.
His wife is weirder than he was.

[scrogdog]

Somewhere along the way I became a realist and stopped dreaming.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I was just thinking the other night what a cynic and pessimist I have become in my later years.

Like the saying goes, if you are not a liberal when you are young, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative when you are old, you have no brain.

I don't even consider that little ditty to be anti-liberalist. It merely makes the quite accurate assessment that it is very easy to be an idealist when you are young. You don't really know how things are yet, but you are full of piss and vinegar and are going to help your generation change the world.

[bootlen]

His wife is weirder than he was.

Uglier, too. And he was one ugly dude!

[coolwhip]

I dont want to live in harmony with some people, because some people irritate the hell out of me.

I agree with your comments though.

[chillbilly]

I dont want to live in harmony with some people, because some people irritate the hell out of me.

LOL :D :D :D
Coolio, you have a direct way of being funny as hell.

[d_griff]

it was a suggestion that we all stop believing in anything,God or country.
imagine there is no counrty,in theory,might be good,but then one ruler,and noone to cut the lawn:eek:
imagine there is no heaven..no i'd rather not live life with no hope..
imagine no possesions...touch my sheet and my right to bear arms is exercised:D
i'd rather vote for my leader,if it gets to bad,flee to canada:eek: .
live this life looking forward to a better ending,and work hard for what is mine and keep it..;)
besides,its hard enough to posses anything these days,uncle sam takes half and the bank owns the other half:eek:

[Roscoe]

He was wacked on drugs and was spitting out euphoric commie crap as long as it didn't affect him and his wife, who was the ugliest women on earth until Rosie came along.

John Lennon wanted everyone else to imagine, kinda like Owl Gore wants us to drive ricshaws and dry our clothes on a line and buy his Carbon Credits

George Harrison was better...............:p

Imagine I am joking......................nah nah.......:D

[tonys]

"...is it merely a little bit of surreal?"

is on par with your grammar-accidents, wanna-be-college-Boy.

try again, boner-bill.

[Roscoe]

so who are you stalking ya turd, me or chilly...........:rolleyes:

[Space Racer]

I kinda lean the other way, but I grew up on the Beatles.

(I am Libertarian-Conservitive.)

I think he was a live for the moment man,
not for pleasure but because he was dissatisfied
with those who would be king, so to speak.

He wasnt anti-religion. He wasn't anti-government.
He was fed up with the status quo.

"What is status quo?" you ask.
Status quo is business as usual.

I think he tried to rock the boat a little. To do
so, he looked at things from a different point of view.

He wasn't trying to be different. He was trying to
be poetic. Thats what songwriters do.

In his time, he was not very controversial. He echoed
sentiment as much as he confronted it.

OK, he was controversial. But most of this was because
he spoke out loud what others were thinking; nothing more.
He created a focal point. He was not controversial in his
thinking. He was controversial in public life.

[Tool-Slinger]

John Lennon wrote the song, Imagine after the Beatles disbanded and recorded the song on his album entitled "Imagine" which was produced by Phil Spector.
The song was voted #3 most popular song of all time by Rolling Stone magazine in 04' and it's cultural legacy and accolaides are abundant.
"The song has also received a number of criticisms due to what some have seen as practised hypocrisy".

Does the song, written by John Lennon, advocate a communist agenda or is it merely a little bit of surreal?

Promoted communism, yes, but john was more of a progressive/liberal. He would not approve of tianimman square or soviet death-camps. If everyone in the world was as wealthy as john, kind and thoughtful as I believe john was,.... there would be no war, no hunger, no in-equality.

Pretty song, Shows the spiritual nature of the writer.

In an ideal world, we are all like john. But we live in this world...

Unfortuanately, some people will steal from you, not just to eat but to get ahead of you or because they simply can. Most promoters of 'sharing' want to insert themselves into charge of the 'collective-pile'. And sadly, some idiot will shoot you to death for no coherent reason.

John Lennon, RIP, poster-boy for liberal-mind-set disaster.

Should have pulled his head out of his bong long enough to get a concealed-carry permit.

[whec720]

John, like most celebs, fell into the trap. That trap is that having vast sums of money, somehow dramatically increases your intelligence.

[RoBoTeq]

The guy did LSD with regularity. He married the ugliest female to ever stand on any amount of legs, and you are trying to make sense of one of his songs?:eek:

Go ahead, Fred.:cool:

What a ridiculously judgemental little man you are!

No wonder you don't understand the Bible, you are so wrapped up in what you "think" the way things should be that you have no tolerance for your fellow man. Too bad that you can't even "imagine all the people, living life in peace."

[Tool-Slinger]

John, like most celebs, fell into the trap. That trap is that having vast sums of money, somehow dramatically increases your intelligence.
Point well made, politicians have the same trap, if not wealth then popularity.

[RoBoTeq]

Quite communist, in my view.

Lennon was the ultimate commie and peace-nik, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. I think he was kind of a wierd guy, but hey, he had his beliefs and he is welcome to them.

I'm not one of those who thinks that "commie" is neceassarily a negative term. Certainly the experience that this planet has had with forced communisim is nothing to be proud of, and communism is, in my view, rightly seen in this day and age as unworkable.

But, as social theory, it sort of sounds good on paper, until one realizes that to live in that way would suck just about everything that makes us human beings right out of us.

Man continues to wrestle with his nature. Those who can't accept the nature of man, well, those are the John Lennon's of the world.

I don't see John Lennon as having Communistic views. Lennon had values and desired to succeed, just in different terms then the mainstream view of success. Lennon was a very open person who discussed or wrote songs about his every emotions, whether they were flattering to him or not.

I also disagree with the ascertation that John Lennon could not accept the nature of man. More so, it seemed that he totally embraced the nature of man rather then adhere to the current societal bounderies that are put on man.

[RoBoTeq]

I think Imagine was a song about John, himself. He is trying to convey his own personal thoughts on his liberalism. Agree or disagree with him, John was atleast honest on his view of the world and the way it should be. Unlike the stealth, cowardly liberals that rule today.

This seems about accurate to me. No doubt that John Lennon was quite the liberal, even though he fought a few violent issues that are usually associated more with conservatives.

As far as talent goes, all of the Beatles had tremendous talent in different ways which is why combined, they were phenominal. Lennon's lyrics were the best, Paul did more appealing musical compositions, George was probably the most instrument talented and Ringo's steady rythym kept the songs true to the name of the band. Ringo is also the most versatile of the four in the way he transcends musical genres and has succeeded in other entertainment venues.

[RoBoTeq]

Uglier, too. And he was one ugly dude!

Speaking of ugly; this is an ugly side of you I did not realize you had.

[Tool-Slinger]

I don't see John Lennon as having Communistic views. Lennon had values and desired to succeed, just in different terms then the mainstream view of success. Lennon was a very open person who discussed or wrote songs about his every emotions, whether they were flattering to him or not.

I also disagree with the ascertation that John Lennon could not accept the nature of man. More so, it seemed that he totally embraced the nature of man rather then adhere to the current societal bounderies that are put on man.
Nature of a man killed him, not society.

[Space Racer]

Nature of a man killed him, not society.

Whether society or nature, what killed him has nothing to do with what he embraced.

(This is what we call a non-sequitur.)

[Tool-Slinger]

Whether society or nature, what killed him has nothing to do with what he embraced.

(This is what we call a non-sequitur.)
You missed the point. Society loved john. john loved society. We agree.

[Space Racer]

You missed the point. Society loved john. john loved society. We agree.

Aha! I see. I thought your statement was agumentative, when in fact
you were chiming in.

(Dang, where did I lay my shotgun... OOPS. I thought the safety was on...)

[Tool-Slinger]

Aha! I see. I thought your statement was agumentative, when in fact
you were chiming in.

(Dang, where did I lay my shotgun... OOPS. I thought the safety was on...)
"imagine" IMHO a pretty song by a gifted musician and political dunder-head. Very spiritual in nature, with an idealistic fevor,...

Unrealistic, politicized, and really not very clever if you want to anylize it for fact....

Communist/liberal/progressive in theory, song was more of a spiritual fantasy of one guy. Prophaghandists have turned it into their arsenal of l/sp/commie agenda. And it fits the ideology.

I love the song, like the concepts it projects,.. I just want to follow it up with a rendition of "HELLS BELLS".

Just a song, but admittedly, ammo for the left.

[Space Racer]

"imagine" IMHO a pretty song by a gifted musician and political dunder-head. Very spiritual in nature, with an idealistic fevor,...

Unrealistic, politicized, and really not very clever if you want to anylize it for fact....

Communist/liberal/progressive in theory, song was more of a spiritual fantasy of one guy. Prophaghandists have turned it into their arsenal of l/sp/commie agenda. And it fits the ideology.

I love the song, like the concepts it projects,.. I just want to follow it up with a rendition of "HELLS BELLS".

Just a song, but admittedly, ammo for the left.


Yeah, you are right. But he did say he was a dreamer. He came full circle in life as he did in song. In other words, he began to settle down and become satisfied, even though others continued to raise hell, and still others would not leave him alone.
Hence the Well, well, well, oh well.

[bootlen]

What a ridiculously judgemental little man you are!

No wonder you don't understand the Bible, you are so wrapped up in what you "think" the way things should be that you have no tolerance for your fellow man. Too bad that you can't even "imagine all the people, living life in peace."


And if you knew and believed Scripture as you claim, you would know that John's is a pipe dream.

Time to face reality, Robo. LSD is not the way to discover truth.

[bootlen]

Speaking of ugly; this is an ugly side of you I did not realize you had.

Right over your head. Not my fault your wife burned the toast this morning so get off my case.

The Beatles had it going on as performers. Then John runs into Joko Oh-no, an acid dropping, sugardaddy-seeking, ultra-liberal, out-of-touch-with-reality, brainless female groupie idealist. John was indeed a genius. No doubt about it. But he gave in to her. She is responsible for the demise of the group.

I happen to like the work known as "Imagine". But Yoko is my target...not John or "Imagine". "Imagine" is a great piece. But I think John would have gotten there without Yoko.

[coolwhip]

I thought George was better too Roscoe.:)

[ozone drone]

I think the Beatles had alot of very good songs due mostly to the musical genious of Paul. Lennon was a deeper thinker than McCartney and it shows in his lyrics. Lennon seemed somehow guilt ridden over his fame and fortune....angry....questioning... Imagine ..to me blames all the problems of the world on government, religion and greed.... and does sound like a call to communism/socialism.
McCartney on the other hand bought his Rolls Royces and mansions, accepted all the groupies and drugs seemingly without any qualms.

Since they both had the same size of fortune...it shows that money can't buy happiness....if you let your inner demons rule.....maybe smarter isn't better?

[tonys]

Paul and John...especially John were two guys that could articulate points of view fairly well.

drugs or no-drugs.

thaaaaat's enough.

[scrogdog]

I don't see John Lennon as having Communistic views. Lennon had values and desired to succeed, just in different terms then the mainstream view of success. Lennon was a very open person who discussed or wrote songs about his every emotions, whether they were flattering to him or not.

I also disagree with the ascertation that John Lennon could not accept the nature of man. More so, it seemed that he totally embraced the nature of man rather then adhere to the current societal bounderies that are put on man.

Fair enough. I guess it would be pretty hard to say that one can know the man just by his writings and media accounts of his life.

Still, I'm not sure why, but I have always had the feeling the John was quite dismayed about life in general while penning this work.

[Space Racer]

Some poeple want to change the world.
Others would rather be happy.

Those who would change the world look to the past and the
future.

Those who would be happy look to the present.

(You can't do both. Well you can, but you do one at the
expense of the other.)

I think John and Paul are examples of this concept.

[Space Racer]

Continued from last post:

I think John was disillusioned with various
institutions, including the church, as were
many of us in the 60's and early 70's.

I think Yoko grounded him in a way the
Beatles couldn't.

The Beatles had become an institution.

When he said "Imagine all the people living
for today," I think he wanted to be a person
who could do such a thing, because he
thought it was not in his power to do it
for himself, by himself.

[chillbilly]

so who are you stalking ya turd, me or chilly...........:rolleyes:


LOL It's me Roscoe.
I hurt his feeling long ago by affirming his feelings of inadequacy and lack of intellect.
Look at the two posts he has on the thread.
Together, they add up to the mentality of a slug trippin' on benzine.

[Tool-Slinger]

Yeah, you are right. But he did say he was a dreamer. He came full circle in life as he did in song. In other words, he began to settle down and become satisfied, even though others continued to raise hell, and still others would not leave him alone.
Hence the Well, well, well, oh well.
''''But he did say he was a dreamer.'''''

PERFECT reply,in fact, that was the 'perfect' dis-claimer in the song... Even more brilliant in review.

Clever observation.

[Roscoe]

LOL It's me Roscoe.
I hurt his feeling long ago by affirming his feelings of inadequacy and lack of intellect.
Look at the two posts he has on the thread.
Together, they add up to the mentality of a slug trippin' on benzine.


Yeah whewwwwww I have enough stalkers ....:eek: you can have him, I don't need any more. I got..... olie.............. the gay Nazi...............:D you can have geer, tinnuts and this screwball



yep.. his avatar is fitting................:D

[chillbilly]

''''But he did say he was a dreamer.'''''

PERFECT reply,in fact, that was the 'perfect' dis-claimer in the song... Even more brilliant in review.

Clever observation.

He didn't say he was a dreamer. He said "You may say I'm a dreamer".

[scrogdog]

He didn't say he was a dreamer.

Sure he did. :)


You may say I'm a dreamer; but I'm not the only one

[chillbilly]

Sure he did. :)

So, was he saying that he was not the only dreamer or not the only one whom you may say that about? ;) :p

It's easy to be a dreamer when you have the wealth to buy your freedom.
Lennon wasn't much of a philanthropist either for someone who talked about the world "living as one".

Surreal as in bizarre.

[Tool-Slinger]

"You may say I ama dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Maybe someday you will join us, and the world may live as one" johnlennon.

Admission of dreaming, by not contesting it, claiming support of groupies. Following further fantasy thinking about how everyone in the world may join his orgy of doped-up peace.

Not worth anylizing too far, johnlennon was not an intellectual genius with a 'message', just a doped-up libtard with a talent for music and drug-induced fantasies of what the world could be if everyone agreed with him and company.

[chillbilly]

"You may say I ama dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Maybe someday you will join us, and the world may live as one" johnlennon.

Admission of dreaming, by not contesting it, claiming support of groupies. Following further fantasy thinking about how everyone in the world may join his orgy of doped-up peace.

Not worth anylizing too far, johnlennon was not an intellectual genius with a 'message', just a doped-up libtard with a talent for music and drug-induced fantasies of what the world could be if everyone agreed with him and company.

LOL Tell us how you really feel, toolie.
:D :D :D

[RoBoTeq]

You missed the point. Society loved john. john loved society. We agree.

I agree with both you and space ranger. While it was an unusual nature of man that specifically killed John Lennon, it was the nature of man. Whether we are referring to his killer's delussional beliefs or John Lennon's desire to live without protection, it was the nature of man that he so embraced that did him in. I believe others have referred to that nature as; "Live free or die." In order to live free, John Lennon accepted death.

[RoBoTeq]

And if you knew and believed Scripture as you claim, you would know that John's is a pipe dream.

Time to face reality, Robo. LSD is not the way to discover truth.

Even if true, that does not change that your opinion in this matter is hateful and truly unworthy of God's grace.

[RoBoTeq]

Right over your head. Not my fault your wife burned the toast this morning so get off my case.

The Beatles had it going on as performers. Then John runs into Joko Oh-no, an acid dropping, sugardaddy-seeking, ultra-liberal, out-of-touch-with-reality, brainless female groupie idealist. John was indeed a genius. No doubt about it. But he gave in to her. She is responsible for the demise of the group.

I happen to like the work known as "Imagine". But Yoko is my target...not John or "Imagine". "Imagine" is a great piece. But I think John would have gotten there without Yoko.

You remain a little man. While I do not in the least care for the type of woman Yoko Ono is, she has every right to her being without this kind of tirade of hate from you. Just an FYI booty; Yoko Ono is quite the financial genius with a very intellectual upbringing. She is also from one of the most influential banking families of Japan and certainly did not need John Lennon's money. If fact; the Lennon estate was worth a lot more then speculators believed it would be because of Yoko Ono's investments.

[RoBoTeq]

Read the last interview with John Lennon just before he was murdered. It really does sum up that John Lennon was a troubled man who knew he was a troubled man. It was an interview in Playboy by, I believe, Alex Haley.

John Lennon admits that many lines in his songs are directly aimed at how he either acted or felt at the time of the writing of those lyrics. He admited to being an abusive husband to his first wife in "It's Getting Better All the Time" as well as his frustrated feelings about his parents in "Mother".

As stated; Yoko grounded John Lennon. She did not take the crap off of him that others did. Yoko was as far from being a groupie to John Lennon as anyone could get, and that put John directly in his place as a regular man rather then an idol. "THAT"! is what John Lennon craved. He was very uncomfortable with his stardom and Yoko kept his feet on the earth.

[RoBoTeq]

Here is the last interview with John Lennon. I don't know why I thought Alex Haley was the interviewer; http://www.geocities.com/~Beatleboy1/dbjypb.int1.html

[Tool-Slinger]

I agree with both you and space ranger. While it was an unusual nature of man that specifically killed John Lennon, it was the nature of man. Whether we are referring to his killer's delussional beliefs or John Lennon's desire to live without protection, it was the nature of man that he so embraced that did him in. I believe others have referred to that nature as; "Live free or die." In order to live free, John Lennon accepted death.
Thank you for the reply. I agree with your concept, JohnLennon was certainly a pacifist and harmless of all of Gods' creatures. Murdered by a maggot of human filth.

''''In order to live free, John Lennon accepted death.''''
Conundrum, he could not have it both ways, as he was also a moron.

[Tool-Slinger]

LOL Tell us how you really feel, toolie.
:D :D :D
I am just saying...... there is nothing wrong with that, because johnlennon was a truly nice guy.... but he was also a doped-up socialist whacko who probably spent more time out of clothing than in inclamate weather with associates who were on at least as many drugs as himself and inclined by ecomonic realities to adhere to the loving ministry of dear leader john. In an incessant orgy of 'peace-making', john never stopped war nor solved pollution, but I will bet he de-flowered a few of them flower girls on the road to a nirvanic peace that the world has never known, nor even considered since it is a foolish fantasy of a naked loon with a bong pipe stuck up his nose. I am ashamed to think whatever else he might have had stuck-up his other orfices, but that is his personal buisness.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I apologize If I appear evasive, because I am perhaps too in-explicit in my answer. I will try to be more direct in the future.

[Space Racer]

Here is the last interview with John Lennon. I don't know why I thought Alex Haley was the interviewer; http://www.geocities.com/~Beatleboy1/dbjypb.int1.html

Just read the interview. Excellent!

If you have not read it all the way through, you cannot understand
the man. You cannot even begin to judge him.

Thanks RoBo. It was an eye opener.