Cycling cold air from basement all through the house

[sj22]

Greetings:
I am planning to run an 8" round conduit from basement to attic and in attic - split that into four 6" conduit and take it into the middle of 4 bedrooms in the 2nd floor.
An inline duct fan near the bedroom ceiling vent will pull and an 8" duct fan in the basement will push. I will need to figure out how to have a valve system in place so that only the valve to the 6" duct will only open when the fan on that duct works. Then I can time (take turns) to run the fans in each bedroom. Basement push fan always runs.
This will bring the cold air from basement into the 2nd floor and keep the house cooled.

In winter I will reverse the process so that hot air is brought down to the basement and will naturally rise again to keep the house warm (rather than escaping through the attic

is this a good plan.

Thanks
SJ

[Shophound]

Is there somebody out there putting this idea into people's heads? I think this is the second time that I know of someone has proposed this idea to this forum. My answer is still the same...it will not cool your upper floors in summer.

Reasons?

a) If you move air from one region to another, you must displace the air in the region air is being introduced into

b) Where is that air to be displaced to? Outdoors?

c) Duct heat gain. By the time the air reaches each area, it will have warmed to where it will have little to no cooling effect where it is desired

d) Duct booster fans can't move enough air to satisfy intended heat load. Low velocity of air through ducts will only aggravate heat gain mentioned in previous bullet

e) Basement must continuously replenish the cold air in order to continue cooling effect for upstairs areas. If warmer air is to be returned from upper floors to be cooled by the basement, then pumped back upstairs again, the basement will quickly cease to be a source of cooling. As walls, floor, and ground surrounding basement warm up, what little cooling effect there is will be lost entirely

I hate to burst your bubble but in the end I can save you a lot of frustration and disappointment if you'll mull over the bulleted items.

[jasruby79]

1.) Get a cardboard box and cut a whole in one side of the cardboard box and then a corresponding whole on the other side. Make sure to leave the bottom intact.

2.) Take some aluminum foil and line the bottom of the box.

3.) Place a box fan on one side of the box so the air blows through the holes you cut in step one.

4.) Fill the bottom portion of the box with ice, but not past the point of the aluminum liner.

5.) ENJOY A/C!

[sj22]

Thanks Shophound.

I have an Suncourt HE150 air exchanger in the basement that brings in fresh air - ( still cooler than the 1st floor and 2nd floor air ) into the basement. To answer your question:

>>b) Where is that air to be displaced to? Outdoors?

My understanding - since the basement air is forced down from the 2nd floor ceiling - colder air being heavier will waft downwards and the hotter air will waft upwards into the attic and the attic fan will force it out

>>c) Duct heat gain. By the time the air reaches each area, it will have warmed to where it will have little to no cooling effect where it is desired

What if I insulate this proposed duct ?

>>d) Duct booster fans can't move enough air to satisfy intended heat load. Low velocity of air through ducts will only aggravate heat gain mentioned in previous bullet

Is there a fan that you could recommend? It doesn't have to be inline duct fan - I can mount it outside and connect it to the duct

>>>e) Basement must continuously replenish the cold air in order to continue cooling effect for upstairs areas. If warmer air is to be returned from upper floors to be cooled by the basement, then pumped back upstairs again, the basement will quickly cease to be a source of cooling. As walls, floor, and ground surrounding basement warm up, what little cooling effect there is will be lost entirely

We spent 55% time in 1st floor, 35% time in 2nd floor and 10% in basement.

A brief overview of the house - it is about 4500 square feet in two floors - plus basement is 1900 square foot. Basement is only partially finished, I only have a little game room/exercise room there now
I have two HVAC units - one in basement and another one in 2nd floor utility room. All brick home - very well insulated - built in 2005

Thanks for your time

SJ22

[sj22]

Jasruby79, Thanks, I will keep your suggestion as Plan B

;-)
SJ22

[pstu]

I think the biggest weakness of this plan is a low amount of BTUs available from the basement for heating or cooling. My amateur opinion is that is even more of a problem than duct losses or fan CFM, but nobody I know has approached this idea using measurement of heat/cool available.

If you insist on trying this, you might consider a fan from Fantech. Look for a CFM vs. static pressure table, with decent CFM at 0.2-0.4 inch (water column) static. You will find some good numbers with Fantech and some other non-cheap brands. Panasonic makes some inline fans which meet this goal too.

Is your air quality in the basement good enough that you want to supply that air throughout the living area?

I have myself had some original thoughts about conserving AC usage, but usually when I get enough info from professional sources on the subject, I see some fatal flaw in my invention. Better to either research thoroughly first, or slap together a 1st trial version and be ready to scrap the idea if it disappoints (or re-do it). Best of luck if you try this.

Hope this helps -- Pstu

[tecman]

Sounds like a good idea to circulate any residual Radon in the basement throughout the house.

paul

[deejoe]

[QUOTE=tecman;1495052]Sounds like a good idea to circulate any residual Radon in the basement throughout the house.

paul[/
************************************************** ****
Hey, tecman,what makes you say that? do you have any proof there actually is radon in the posters (sj22) basement?

[tecman]

Hey, tecman,what makes you say that? do you have any proof there actually is radon in the posters (sj22) basement?

Just a thought. There is likely Radon in everyones basement to some degree, in many parts of the country. Just too small to be a problem for many. I would have it tested, if not already done.

paul

[d_griff]

your gonna run 4 fans in the bedrooms?? one fan in the basement?sound like alot of work.
why not run a a/c?

[sj22]

Paul/Tecman - there is no radon in the basement - I had tested it out

d_griff - I have two air HVACs. The fans I mentioned are duct fans that don't consume too much electricity. May be all I need is one big fan (need not be in the duct) to push the basement air through the duct into the 4 rooms in 2nd floor. The challenge is how do I make sure that all rooms gets almost equal air from basement?

pstu - I have an air exchanger in basement - that brings in fresh air from outside - still it is 6 degrees colder than 2nd floor.
I do not have radon in the basement

To run the conduit from basement to 2nd floor is not difficult - I have closets through which I can shoot the duct straight to reach the attic and then do two 90 degrees to bring it right on the 2nd floor ceiling facing down

how do I make sure that all rooms gets almost equal air from basement?


Thanks
SJ22

[gerizam60]

Greetings:
I am planning to run an 8" round conduit from basement to attic and in attic - split that into four 6" conduit and take it into the middle of 4 bedrooms in the 2nd floor.
An inline duct fan near the bedroom ceiling vent will pull and an 8" duct fan in the basement will push. I will need to figure out how to have a valve system in place so that only the valve to the 6" duct will only open when the fan on that duct works. Then I can time (take turns) to run the fans in each bedroom. Basement push fan always runs.
This will bring the cold air from basement into the 2nd floor and keep the house cooled.

In winter I will reverse the process so that hot air is brought down to the basement and will naturally rise again to keep the house warm (rather than escaping through the attic

is this a good plan.

Thanks
SJ
A 8" duct to feed (4) 6" outlets??!!!

@ .1 static a 8" duct will push approximately 225 cfm. One 6" duct given the same static will push 125 cfm.

225 cfm split by (4) 6" ducts???, ....do the math.

Granted, most inline fans move more than .1 static, but you're not going to move adequate air flow into (4) 6" ducts from 8" main unless your fan is moving .4- .5 static.

What's the square footage of the rooms that you're feeding? What is the temperature/RH% of the basement? The quality of the air you're drawing from the basement determines your BTU per lb of dry air. If your RH is high, your free cooling effect from latent heat of evaporation is non existence. Read a psychometric chart and see for yourself.

I know what you're trying to accomplish. I always recommend to my customers that have basement returns, to run their fans continuously to move cooler air from the basement thru out the whole house.

But, their basements are dry due to the fact that they have mechanical cooling to begin with, and they have the CFM capacity moving thru all the ducts, since the ducts were properly size for every room.

I'm not trying to discourage your idea, I'm only pointing out a few tips.

[gerizam60]

I think the biggest weakness of this plan is a low amount of BTUs available from the basement for heating or cooling. My amateur opinion is that is even more of a problem than duct losses or fan CFM, but nobody I know has approached this idea using measurement of heat/cool available.

If you insist on trying this, you might consider a fan from Fantech. Look for a CFM vs. static pressure table, with decent CFM at 0.2-0.4 inch (water column) static. You will find some good numbers with Fantech and some other non-cheap brands. Panasonic makes some inline fans which meet this goal too.

Is your air quality in the basement good enough that you want to supply that air throughout the living area?

I have myself had some original thoughts about conserving AC usage, but usually when I get enough info from professional sources on the subject, I see some fatal flaw in my invention. Better to either research thoroughly first, or slap together a 1st trial version and be ready to scrap the idea if it disappoints (or re-do it). Best of luck if you try this.

Hope this helps -- Pstu
pstu,

I agree with your post 100%

[oil lp man]

I've heard of techs telling homeowners to keep the blower on of their warm air furnace that is in the basement and keep the blower door off. That will circulate the cool air through the house.
I wouldn't recommend it myself, "circulating skanky basement air throughout the house". ugh!
Got allergies now? How many more do you want?

[johnl45]

Just what the doctor ordered, moist old stinky basement air throughout the house.

[Shophound]

Paul/Tecman - there is no radon in the basement - I had tested it out

d_griff - I have two air HVACs. The fans I mentioned are duct fans that don't consume too much electricity. May be all I need is one big fan (need not be in the duct) to push the basement air through the duct into the 4 rooms in 2nd floor. The challenge is how do I make sure that all rooms gets almost equal air from basement?

pstu - I have an air exchanger in basement - that brings in fresh air from outside - still it is 6 degrees colder than 2nd floor.
I do not have radon in the basement

To run the conduit from basement to 2nd floor is not difficult - I have closets through which I can shoot the duct straight to reach the attic and then do two 90 degrees to bring it right on the 2nd floor ceiling facing down

how do I make sure that all rooms gets almost equal air from basement?


Thanks
SJ22

I just can't see you getting any kind of decent return on your efforts and investment, here. In order to have even a decent shot of this working it would help if you understood with data what you are trying to do. You have heat gain upstairs. You have a cool basement. How much heat do you need to remove to make the upstairs comfortable vs. how much ability does the basement have to cool this air? If this is not determined beforehand, you can play around with ducts and blowers all you want and possibly be set up for big time disappointment.

Mechanical cooling works by not only removing heat from the air, but recirculating this air so it can undergo continual heat removal. With your proposed arrangement you would need to set up a similar circulation path, with the basement acting as your heat sink. And this is where I think you'll run into problems; you'll find that the basement walls and floors can't extract enough heat from air being returned to the basement from upstairs to satisfy your upstairs comfort needs. In addition, even if the walls and floors were cool enough (at or below dew point), and you had higher humidity levels in the home, your basement walls and floors would sweat, leading to mold and mildew problems.

[beenthere]

Your air exchanger, is it a hrv, or erv.

If so, its probaly not hooked up as a make up air unit.
So you will draw fresh unconditioned air into the basement, and then it won't be cooler in the basement anymore.
Also, what is the RH level in the basement. It may be high enough that you won't be very comfortable in the bedrooms.

Those 5 fans may not use much electric per fan, but when you multiply by 5, it may come out to more then you thought.

[Carnak]

I used to have a small bungalow in Canada. Basement was always pretty cool, 66F.

If I kept the heat out of the house above the basement in the summer on a hot day like 84F (lol),drapes drawn, windows closed, I could circulate basement air and keep the house about 78F.

I ran a kenmore dehu in the basement and it kept humidity under 60%.

There was a back entrance to the house that came in on the landing between the basement stairs and the kitchen. I just kept the back kitchen door open. And let air fall down the basement, sort of a deliberate path not relying on it 'wafting back down there'. If you rely on wafting, the pressurized areas upstairs will leak air out causing humid outdoor air to infiltrrate in.

It was a 'don't try this at home' thing, I used to put a clothes pin on the door switch and stuck a filter where the furnace blower access panel used to be.

I was going to add a 1.5 ton AC, but then decided to move and put the house up for sale.

[pstu]

I'd like to make an amateur suggestion more acceptable to the pros I hope: Consider adding more returns to the existing duct system, including a basement return, instead of a separate duct system purely for ventilation. Additional returns are well known to have benefits. This plan would do nearly as much for the original goal of sucking cool basement air into the house, too.

Hope this helps -- Pstu

[deejoe]

Frst of all, the majority of basements are NOT danky, as most are liveable areas of the home(at least they are in most parts of Canada).A basement however is going to be a bit cooler than the rest of the home because it is situated below grade perhaps 4'-5' or even more.
In the Summer months, myself and many, many others in the area will not have to resort to AC..... they just open their furnace fan compartment (place a filter in it) and let this cool basement air go out to rest of the home, thereby not requiring any need for the AC to kick in. Sure, after 4 or 5 days of a hot spell the basement will 'warm' up, and then if the hot spell continues then we kick the AC on.
but in the meantime using only the fan on LOW speed for a few days instead of the AC, the electrical power consumption is a lot less.

[gerizam60]

I've heard of techs telling homeowners to keep the blower on of their warm air furnace that is in the basement and keep the blower door off. That will circulate the cool air through the house.
I wouldn't recommend it myself, "circulating skanky basement air throughout the house". ugh!
Got allergies now? How many more do you want?
I agree with your statement 100%, However I would never advise one of my customers to run a unit with th e blower door off.

Second, if I were to advise running the fan on constant to ciculate cooler air from the basement thru out the house, it's because the home has a finished basement with supplementry basement return.

No stinky basements from where I'm from.

[hvaclover]

Frst of all, the majority of basements are NOT danky, as most are liveable areas of the home(at least they are in most parts of Canada).A basement however is going to be a bit cooler than the rest of the home because it is situated below grade perhaps 4'-5' or even more.
In the Summer months, myself and many, many others in the area will not have to resort to AC..... they just open their furnace fan compartment (place a filter in it) and let this cool basement air go out to rest of the home, thereby not requiring any need for the AC to kick in. Sure, after 4 or 5 days of a hot spell the basement will 'warm' up, and then if the hot spell continues then we kick the AC on.
but in the meantime using only the fan on LOW speed for a few days instead of the AC, the electrical power consumption is a lot less.

Ever hear of a high efficiency ac? I hear there available even North of the border now.LOL:p

[deejoe]

Ever hear of a high efficiency ac? I hear there available even North of the border now.LOL:p
************************************************** *****
Yep, and compared to running a 1/3 hp motor on low speed, they surely will use a lot more juice.
Also by running the fan only, it warms up the basement after a few days while cooling the upper levels.If, as you suggested, the ac was running, the basement would probably be even cooler, so your theory of running an hi efficient (lol) is shot down.

[hvaclover]

Didn't need to be shot down, the joke was in a dive before it even hit the screen:)

[deejoe]

I agree with your statement 100%, However I would never advise one of my customers to run a unit with th e blower door off.

Second, if I were to advise running the fan on constant to ciculate cooler air from the basement thru out the house, it's because the home has a finished basement with supplementry basement return.

No stinky basements from where I'm from.
************************************************** ********Gerizam60 ;What's the problem with running with door off? As long as there is a filter placed against the opening what's the big deal?

[hvaclover]

:) Ask the poor house pet who went for an inadvertent "spin' in the squirell cage.:)

[Alantoy13]

You need to either one, cough up enough money to get yourself a new system to cool your other floors. Or get some window a/c's and put them in. Anything else will just make you a hack.

[deejoe]

:) Ask the poor house pet who went for an inadvertent "spin' in the squirell cage.:)
**********************************************
it would serve this house pet right if it wants to break its way in thru the FILTER that I mentioned was put on the fan opening

[hvaclover]

**********************************************
it would serve this house pet right if it wants to break its way in thru the FILTER that I mentioned was put on the fan opening

Good. Now I got an excuse to cack my future daughter-in-law's obnoxious cat.

My son hates that pest anyway, he won't miss it:rolleyes:

[deejoe]

And to just make sure any "overactive" pet does not get thru,simply place a 1/2" steel mesh screen on the filter.
Simple ,eh?

[hvaclover]

And to just make sure any "overactive" pet does not get thru,simply place a 1/2" steel mesh screen on the filter.
Simple ,eh?

You kiddin'? This animal is so badly disliked I am gonna install a pet door in the inlet-air side of the furnace blower compartment.:eek:

[deejoe]

Obviously, you are not a member of the SPCA, so another approach would be to use a 12 ga. shotgun with a slug in it. faster that way and not as messy or as hard on your heating equipment.

[hvaclover]

Obviously, you are not a member of the SPCA, so another approach would be to use a 12 ga. shotgun with a slug in it. faster that way and not as messy or as hard on your heating equipment.

Yeah, but just imagine that last satisfying screech as that sucker gets purated:D

[deejoe]

hope you get well soon....bye

[gerizam60]

LMFAO!!!, Yeah that can happen for sure.

[gerizam60]

************************************************** ********Gerizam60 ;What's the problem with running with door off? As long as there is a filter placed against the opening what's the big deal?
I would'nt advise it, it's an accident waiting to happen. The very reason why door safty switches are put there. It's violating a safty, that's not going to happen on my watch.

I would rather cut in a return filter grill in the return (or a plain louver if there is a filter inside the machine).

If there is a natural draft appliance near by, then that idea is thrown out the window. I refuse to create a negative barametric pressure condition and pull air down a draft hood.

But that's me, playing safe.

Too many people died because of carbon monoxide poisoning.

[hvaclover]

I would'nt advise it, it's an accident waiting to happen. The very reason why door safty switches are put there. It's violating a safty, that's not going to happen on my watch.

I would rather cut in a return filter grill in the return (or a plain louver if there is a filter inside the machine).

If there is a natural draft appliance near by, then that idea is thrown out the window. I refuse to create a negative barametric pressure condition and pull air down a draft hood.

But that's me, playing safe.

Too many people died because of carbon monoxide poisoning.

That's exactly what I was getting across with the cat story.

It was meant to be a metaphor, but I don't think he got it.

[sj22]

Thank you all for the reply's.
I am going to do it as an experiment - I will report back the results in this forum, if the admin can keep this thread open for a few more weeks.

I would appreciate a recommendation on a fan that I can use to push the air up from the basement through the 8" duct. Also, how can I make sure that an almost equal distribution happens when the 8" duct is split into four 6" ducts that goes to the bedrooms.

Cheers
SJ22

[sj22]

Beenthere,

>>> Your air exchanger, is it a hrv, or erv.
I don't know, it is from Suncourt Model is HE-150


>>> If so, its probaly not hooked up as a make up air unit.
So you will draw fresh unconditioned air into the basement, and then it won't be cooler in the basement anymore.

It brings in cool air - by heat exchange. There is some heat loss during the exchange - but basement is still cooler 5 degrees after the exchange


>>>>Also, what is the RH level in the basement. It may be high enough that you won't be very comfortable in the bedrooms.

40 to 45%

>>> Those 5 fans may not use much electric per fan, but when you multiply by 5, it may come out to more then you thought.

I am now things of using one fan to push the air up from basement


Tks
SJ22

[pstu]

Thank you all for the reply's.
I am going to do it as an experiment - I will report back the results in this forum, if the admin can keep this thread open for a few more weeks.

I would appreciate a recommendation on a fan that I can use to push the air up from the basement through the 8" duct. Also, how can I make sure that an almost equal distribution happens when the 8" duct is split into four 6" ducts that goes to the bedrooms.

Cheers
SJ22
http://www.fantechfans.net/

You can use a 4-inch fan moving 100 CFM, and then re-deploy the thing as a proper bathroom fan when and if the experiment fails to satisfy.

This whole project goes against so many rules of conventional, professional HVAC wisdom. I do *not* think it has a core of genius which would justify that, but see no harm in offering ideas which will help you see the project through to completion. But are you sure you won't just add a return to the basement area and accomplish the same general thing?

I am a homeowner in S.Texas, would not myself do what you propose, but please keep us posted on how it works out.

Best of luck -- Pstu

[hvaclover]

Thank you all for the reply's.
I am going to do it as an experiment - I will report back the results in this forum, if the admin can keep this thread open for a few more weeks.

I Cheers
SJ22

Don't worry, if Cotty Gee and Timebuilder get in here it'll last TWO Months:D

[beenthere]

Don't worry, if Cotty Gee and Timebuilder get in here it'll last TWO Months:D



LOL.

If timebuilder starts to post here it'll last that long period. :)

[Sam-the-man]

Thank you all for the reply's.
I am going to do it as an experiment - I will report back the results in this forum, if the admin can keep this thread open for a few more weeks.

I would appreciate a recommendation on a fan that I can use to push the air up from the basement through the 8" duct. Also, how can I make sure that an almost equal distribution happens when the 8" duct is split into four 6" ducts that goes to the bedrooms.

Cheers
SJ22


You might as well hang out in the basement with a big pot of cabbage and beans and fart up the vent pipe for all the good it's likely to do. Someone wisely posted that a little math could be done to somewhat prove or disprove your theory before the "experiment" is even attempted. If circulating basement air was a viable solution to home cooling, then Carrier, Trane, and Lennox would have figured out a way to charge you for it long before now. If you insist on trying it, please, please, please post pics of the completed project. Best of luck, stay cool.

[chucko615]

sj22, instead of running 8" round pipe, why don't you run a 8" X 8" square duct?

[Shophound]

Thank you all for the reply's.
I am going to do it as an experiment - I will report back the results in this forum, if the admin can keep this thread open for a few more weeks.

I would appreciate a recommendation on a fan that I can use to push the air up from the basement through the 8" duct. Also, how can I make sure that an almost equal distribution happens when the 8" duct is split into four 6" ducts that goes to the bedrooms.

Cheers
SJ22

Shall we file this one under "Efforts in Futility"? :D

You just can't talk some folks out of an idea, no matter how much cold water you throw on them. Like that horse and water thing also, I suppose. :rolleyes:

Sadly, this is how some folks go about trying to fix an HVAC system; they have an idea in their head how they think it should be done...verifiable evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. It's a mindset I wish would die a thousand deaths...but I do dream on at times, yes?

[pstu]

>>...Also, how can I make sure that an almost equal distribution happens when the 8" duct is split into four 6" ducts that goes to the bedrooms.

I did not respond to that part of your request earlier. Take a superficial look at the Thermastor QUIET-VENT product and I suggest you imitate its general design:
http://www.thermastor.com/Residential-Ventilation-Products/

This illustrates a simple concept, don't think you would be copying a patentable idea here. Just a box with one inlet and 4 outlets. The Thermastor comment on 'By slightly depressurizing the house, exhaust ventilation prevents moisture from penetrating and damaging the structure...', is valid in a cold climate. People should realize that in a hot-humid climate the opposite applies.

You could also consider Panasonic "Inline Ventilation Fans" (do a Google search) in case you prefer Japanese brand names. Again, one of these in the multi-hundred CFM range could be later converted to exhaust several bathrooms at once, as could the Fantech fan. Also you could build that 8-inch vertical air duct into a regular AC air return, when the experiment is finished, or when you sell the house. It is likely that a future house buyer would not have the same fondness for the project that you do.

Hope this helps -- Pstu

[hvaclover]

Hey Mr. Bill.

Ptsu seems to think he's has more to offer than the bonified pros on this board.

[pstu]

As far as I can tell this is not taking bread off any pro's table. Every pro on this board had an opportunity to tell the OP some elementary stuff about fans, you did not so I thought it best to.

My thinking is the OP best get this project behind him, and move on to things more conforming to ACCA principles.

Regards -- Pstu

[hvaclover]

Hey, NS, (yeah you ptsu).

And my thinking is that unless you want to take the responsibility for giving advice you shut your fat lip.

Talk is cheap but liability insurance is not. When you post an insurance binder with a million (minimum) face coverage than you can talk.

I'm thinking about all the poor sorry SOB DIYs that have followed your "expert" advice and have been hurt or destroyed their own equip.

This is "OUR" board buddy, not your personal playground for you to try and show how much smarter you "think" you are than everybody.

Either post your self as a pro or move on. You insult the salted techs who congregate here with your simplistic approach to HVAC solutions no matter how thoughtful you think they might be.

[pstu]

If you know of anything I have said which led someone to bad results, I would like someone to point it out. I have heard so many local "pros" contradict one another, there seems no survival strategy but to learn the subject myself, as best I can. The pros on this board are an order of magnitude better, though I have not seen you say anything helpful.

It is my opinion that unless I am spreading misinformation, I might be able to say some things in a way a customer might more easily understand.

Regards -- Pstu

[Shophound]

If you know of anything I have said which led someone to bad results, I would like someone to point it out. I have heard so many local "pros" contradict one another, there seems no survival strategy but to learn the subject myself, as best I can. The pros on this board are an order of magnatude better, though I have not seen you say anything helpful.

It is my opinion that unless I am spreading misinformation, I might be able to say some things in a way a customer might more easily understand.

Regards -- Pstu

I understand your thinking. However, I remember the previous iteration of your handle; "perpetual student". In a sense we all are that; the difference being the aggregate of knowledge and skill that accumulates over time.

I admire your drive to learn about the most expensive and complex system in your home. In this thread, my colleagues and I were attempting to give the OP a dose of reality, hoping he could be spared disappointment. Realistically if he wants to run his head into a brick wall there is no stopping him, but I did not want to encourage him, so I offered no mitigating advise to offset my tosses of cold water. I think your efforts to the contrary may have generated the response you received from hvaclover, who is known for being frank.

Your presence is welcome here, sir. You'll just have to understand you're gonna be challenged from time to time in your quest to learn...that's the landscape of being a student. Carry on. :cool:

[hvaclover]

You are not duly licensed by Texas law, therefore you are in violation.

You don't have to kill some body with bad medical advice to be prosecuted on charges of practicing medicine with out a license, just cost them some out of pocket expenses. Or the one I like: The health insurance provider has to shell out money to fix what harm your bad advice has caused a person. I believe that is a big one.

Samething goes for giving legal advice with out a license: Cause somebody some monetary loss from bad advice you go to jail too, or face a big fine at the minimum.

If somebody did incur a loss from following you amateur advice the board would probably never know. i don't think anybody would own up to having done themselves damage by listening to a guy who uses a disclaimer on his professional qualification by starting almost every post with "Well, I'm just an HO, but"...

The times you don't mention your honest status I think you are trying to blend in with the real pros. I feel that is misleading.

We take all the risks while you are trying to reap the glory off somebody elses hard work.

[hvaclover]

Don't know about the civilians but I didn't see ptsu on a hot roof today getting a rest-home cooling, or at the the granny's who's on oxygen, or the group home where half a dozen orphaned Downs Syndrome children reside.

Or what about that funeral home where there was three grieving families praying for the ac guy to come so their final good byes would not be cut short by the heat.

crap.. now I got chest pains...

[deejoe]

Roll over , clover, ....what a spoiled sore LOSER!!!!
pstu hit a nerve,eh?

[pstu]

Hvac"Lover", you have described some real Mom, Apple Pie and Country things. Of course I admire those things which you have done at some time in your career, anybody would be rightfully proud of that. I have said before that I have a heartfelt sympathy for the burden of getting into a hot attic at the very worst time, finding and fixing a problem.

But your scenario that there is a trail of unseen and anonymous victims caused by stupid homeowners reading this board is bizarre. Allegedly we never hear about them because they are anonymous and unreported. I don't believe that for a moment. And comparing talk about HVAC with practicing law and medicine without a license, is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Your prior conversation on this thread shows you think it is funny to fantasize about torturing and killing small animals. Based on that I would be alarmed at the very idea of you visiting my house and being possibly alone with my mother, with my wife, with my daughter, or with my pets. I can only hope that you have mis-represented your real self in these hateful fantasies.

Every once in awhile someone says on this board in essence that they want a closed guild where the customers are kept ignorant, the tradesmen have a monopoly of knowledge. I think they are making a big mistake in that a truly interested customer is more open to spending on sophisticated systems and professional maintenance, installation and consulting. It saddens me when it appears HVAC pros are overly dependent on equipment sales and don't get the opportunity to get paid for brain work. I really regret it when honest well meaning pros feel offended when I say something, and try to find ways to avoid that.

I hope Hvac"Lover" has a long and healthy life ahead of him, and gets to a more loving and trusting and less hostile relationship with people, animals, and the things of this world. I regret the hurt feelings but will continue to do what I think is morally right.

Regards -- Pstu

[hvaclover]

Roll over , clover, ....what a spoiled sore LOSER!!!!
pstu hit a nerve,eh?

ROLL OVER???

Uh oh... you've been hangin' out with cotty gee too long.

[hvaclover]

Hvac"Lover", you have described some real Mom, Apple Pie and Country things. Of course I admire those things which you have done at some time in your career, anybody would be rightfully proud of that. I have said before that I have a heartfelt sympathy for the burden of getting into a hot attic at the very worst time, finding and fixing a problem.

But your scenario that there is a trail of unseen and anonymous victims caused by stupid homeowners reading this board is bizarre. Allegedly we never hear about them because they are anonymous and unreported. I don't believe that for a moment. And comparing talk about HVAC with practicing law and medicine without a license, is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Your prior conversation on this thread shows you think it is funny to fantasize about torturing and killing small animals. Based on that I would be alarmed at the very idea of you visiting my house and being possibly alone with my mother, with my wife, with my daughter, or with my pets. I can only hope that you have mis-represented your real self in these hateful fantasies.

Every once in awhile someone says on this board in essence that they want a closed guild where the customers are kept ignorant, the tradesmen have a monopoly of knowledge. I think they are making a big mistake in that a truly interested customer is more open to spending on sophisticated systems and professional maintenance, installation and consulting. It saddens me when it appears HVAC pros are overly dependent on equipment sales and don't get the opportunity to get paid for brain work. I really regret it when honest well meaning pros feel offended when I say something, and try to find ways to avoid that.

I hope Hvac"Lover" has a long and healthy life ahead of him, and gets to a more loving and trusting and less hostile relationship with people, animals, and the things of this world. I regret the hurt feelings but will continue to do what I think is morally right.

Regards -- Pstu

Yep. Definately Rainbow coalitation material, and I don't mean Jessy Jackson's group.

You're married? HHoo boyy.. are you living the life on the DOWN LOW?

yOU KEEP CALLIN' ME "LOVER".Get over it. Im' as hetro as they come

It's "Clover". The "HVA" is silent, "buddy"

[sj22]

>>>> I am now things of using one fan to push the air up from basement

I meant to say.... I am now thinking of using one fan to push the air up from basement...

;-)

[hvaclover]

>>>> I am now things of using one fan to push the air up from basement

I meant to say.... I am now thinking of using one fan to push the air up from basement...

;-)

WTHDYM?????

[emen8]

While searching on ideas to use the cool air from my basement to help take the load off the AC in the rest of the house, I came across this thread. My house is 6 months old, well insulated, and my HVAC is a heat pump with central AC. The nights usually cool down substantially around here (the Poconos), so if I could really make use of the basement's lower temperatures in the daytime, the cooler night temps should "recharge" the basement's cool air. I keep a dehumidifier running in the basement, and it cycles on and off (as opposed to running constantly), so I'm assuming my humidity level is okay. The house came with a radon abatement setup.

My second floor, where the bedrooms are, is noticeably warmer than the first. When I turn the system's fan on to circulate the home's air, it definitely helps even out the temps. By the tone of this thread ;) , someone is likely to tell me in no uncertain terms: Is there any reason I shouldn't have an extra return added in the basement?