Replacing Split System: Rheem vs York thus far

[bout_dem_Gators]

We are looking to replace our 22 year old York split system that has served us nearly flawlessly. As a result, we have been taking quotes on the York Affinity line. 13 SEER on the AC side and 80% AFUE on the gas furnace. We live in southeastern Virginia. We also took a quote from a contractor for a system with Rheem components. Those components being, on the heating side the Rheem Classic Series Super Quiet 80 and the Classic RAND series on the AC side.

The heating system offered by Rheem is supposedly tested as being the quietest in the industry which is important to us, uses direct spark ignition, and in-shot burners. However, it is only a single-stage system. The York heating side is from their Affinity line (what's really in a name), is rated at an additional 5,000 BTU and is a two-stage system. Both systems come with a 20-year warranty on the heat exchanger. I have been told that the elderly might have a problem feeling warm enough when going from a lifetime of enjoying a one-stage system to a two-stage system. On the AC side, the Rheem contractor is proposing the Rheem Classic line with the Scroll compressor while the York contractors are offering their Affinity line.

The pricing (total parts and labor) has been about the same for all quotes. Any thoughts or feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[BaldLoonie]

The Super Quiet 80 lives up to its name. Over the many years of 80% furnaces, there have been oodles of complaints about loud inducers and loud burners. Ironically Rheem's 80 was one of the loudest. Not anymore :) The RAND is a great A/C as well, quiet, well built...

We've had NO complaints from anyone on comfort from a 2 stage furnace. We sell ours with a 2 stage stat. So if you want to go York or ask the Rheem dealer about 2 stage, I would expect no comfort issues. On the contrary, most feel more comfortable with the gentle heat in mild weather.

Only other thought in your area is dual fuel where you have a heat pump outside the heats very cheaply in mild weather and the gas automatically takes over in cold weather. Really cuts the old heating bill.

[bout_dem_Gators]

The Rheem contractor is asking 14% more for the total package if he supplies a two-stage system. Is Rheem worth the additional 14% over the York. I think I'll get quotes from additional Rheem contractors and also request an option price for a heat pump. Thanks for the feedback.

[BaldLoonie]

In the Affinity 13 SEER R22 line, the compressor is a recip up through 3 ton. Personally I think a high end unit should be scroll. Leave the recips for the builder models. But that's just 1 little old opinion. Otherwise, the Affinity is a nice unit. The R410a 13 SEER is all scroll.

[bell3156]

As far as reliability goes on these Brands, I would put an edge on the Rheem unit. Why are you only getting prices on these brands? Lennox or Trane are much more reliable. If you plan on staying in the home for 5yrs or more you want to spend the extra money.

[Mr Bill]

. Why are you only getting prices on these brands? Lennox or Trane are much more reliable. .

:rolleyes: And I am sure you have data to back up that statement?

[BaldLoonie]

Hmmmmmm

RAND-JAZ: Copeland scroll, high pressure switch, low pressure switch, hard start kit. JEZ adds compressor cover and Comfort Alert diagnostics

AC13: Copeland scroll, no pressure protection or start kit

XR13: Mexican made recip in all but 3 & 5 ton, no compressor protection, has start kit on recips

Gee, seems like Rheem is giving quite a value for the money! I'm with Mr. Bill, who says Trane & Lennox are more reliable?

[beenthere]

As baldie almost implied, get the r410a version of the Afinity. :)
If you go with York again.

Get a 2 stage stat if you get a 2 stage furnace.

If you decide to go with a duel fuel system, the Affinity heat pumps defrost board is also a duel fuel control, so no need to add one.


The Rheem condensers are well thought out units, easy to service and durable.
The furnaces use to be loud. :)
But if baldie says their quite now, take his word for it. He's one of the least bias on this board.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Just my $0.02 worth here... And I might add up front that I am biased because I am a RUUD dealer (RUUD and Rheem are the same unit with different name badges).

I have the UGPR furnace in my home, and install them regularly. The UGPR is a two stage 80% with an ECM (variable speed) motor. The comfort added with the options available with a VS furnace are well worth it IMO. And it is very quiet!!!!!!!!!!!

There is one thing you need to be honest with yourself about: If you do not plan to stay in the house for 5 or more years, IMO get something economical; as you will not get the full value of the extra costs. But if you are there for the long haul, you will really enjoy the premium furnace.

And while we are talking about the HVAC system: It is the most expensive, the most complicated, the most energy intensive (costs the most to run), and the most neglected appliance in the home. If you take the time to get a quality system, you will thank yourself for years to come!

Most of the time with a quality installation, a VS furnace will yield close to 14 SEER from a 13 SEER A/C unit. And there is a dehumidification cycle that can be set up as an option to keep the air more comfortable. Ask your Rheem dealer about this (and if they do not know, get another dealer).

I would vote for the Rheem, but then I am biased because I am a RUUD dealer.

Having said this: The installation is worth a lot more than the equipment. Be SURE you get a contractor that is fussy about doing a quality install. Be sure they run a load calculation on your home to size the equipment correctly. And do not be surprised if they want to do some ductwork modification to improve airflow (almost every house I come across needs a little). One more thing I would suggest is a media filter system. It uses a 5" thick filter that traps more dirt while allowing the system to 'breathe' easier.

If you do your homework, you will come out with a home that is a lot more comfortable and more energy efficient also. Best to you, and enjoy your new system when it is in.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Wow! Aside from the potential for bias, what a wealth of good info this otherwise appears to be. I'm going to rule out the York and look at the Rheem, but also give Trane a look because this home is going to be kept in the family. Isn't it in the Trane commercial where the guy buys his wife a new Trane system for their wedding anniversary because "we're in it for the long haul"?

It sounds like a two-stage or better yet a two-stage system with variable speed would provide greater comfort, while with a heat pump we would realize an even better savings on energy costs. Would a two-stage heating system and a heat pump defeat one another or compete in certain higher outdoor temperature ranges?

[tpa-fl]

As far as reliability goes on these Brands, I would put an edge on the Rheem unit. Why are you only getting prices on these brands? Lennox or Trane are much more reliable. If you plan on staying in the home for 5yrs or more you want to spend the extra money.

I'd definitely like to see any hard, cold data to support this...or at this point, even anecdotal evidence on a reasonable-sized sample.

I'll admit that I've always spec'd Trane or Lennox, but have no problem with Rheem/Ruud units. The Rheem/Ruud units almost never feature the fancy gadgets and latest advancements, BUT, they build very solid, dependable units which are a great value.


I have been told that the elderly might have a problem feeling warm enough when going from a lifetime of enjoying a one-stage system to a two-stage system.

I doubt it... I've seen people (old and young) complain about the cooler air that heat pumps can produce, but I know some of the manufacturers have addressed this in their latest higher-end systems. I know Carrier does this, not sure about the others. Maybe if the elderly person insists on sitting directly in front of the vent and insists on holding their hand up to the vent (or worse, leaves a thermometer in front of it), the air might feel cooler on low, but I doubt it. Most of the 2-stage systems have variable-speed blowers which ramp down to match the lower output and deliver similar supply temperatures at high and low.

Heat pumps are more efficient than fossil fuel furnaces, BUT, they are what their name suggests, pumps that move heat. The cooler it is outside, the less heat they're able to extract from outdoors and put into your home.

Here's a sample HP performance chart. The 4 lines signify (from top to bottom), 5 ton, 4 ton, 3 ton, and 2 ton units. You'll notice that performance drops almost linearly in the majority of the heating range. I should note, that even 'though the 5 ton unit in this graph is only putting out about 32,000 BTUs when it's 18F outside, it's doing so at well over >100% efficiency. Why more than 100%? Because it's only moving heat from one place to another, not creating it. It takes far less energy to move something, in this case heat, than it does to create it from scratch.

Once you get down to it being THAT cold outside, the heat loss of the house itself will be more than what the heat pump's capable of putting out, thus the need for auxiliary heat, whether it be heat strips (100% efficient, but also with the most expensive source -- electricity) or gas/oil furnace. Once you get below ~10F, then it's time to shut off the heat pump and let the furnace handle the load, there just isn't enough heat outside to make a difference.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7102/hpchartcp3.gif

[beenthere]

I doubt it... I've seen people (old and young) complain about the cooler air that heat pumps can produce,



York has the hot heat pump feature.

[dngtig]

Wow! Aside from the potential for bias, what a wealth of good info this otherwise appears to be. I'm going to rule out the York and look at the Rheem, but also give Trane a look because this home is going to be kept in the family. Isn't it in the Trane commercial where the guy buys his wife a new Trane system for their wedding anniversary because "we're in it for the long haul"?

It sounds like a two-stage or better yet a two-stage system with variable speed would provide greater comfort, while with a heat pump we would realize an even better savings on energy costs. Would a two-stage heating system and a heat pump defeat one another or compete in certain higher outdoor temperature ranges?

Why are you ruling out the York? Because someone on this site said Rheem is better? I personaly do not like Rheem units. I also sell York products and would recommend them over any other. If you buy a York unit before June 30 you can get 10 years parts and labor warrenty.http://www.yorkupg.com/homeowners/seasonal_promo.asp

[bout_dem_Gators]

Why are you ruling out the York? Because someone on this site said Rheem is better? I personaly do not like Rheem units. I also sell York products and would recommend them over any other. If you buy a York unit before June 30 you can get 10 years parts and labor warrenty.http://www.yorkupg.com/homeowners/seasonal_promo.asp
Essentially, my final decision is going to be based on a balance of comfort features, reliability and price. At this point I am leaning toward Rheem based on these factors as the supporters/sellers of Rheem have given me objective and comparative data for my consideration. This data, for the most part, has gone unchallenged thus far. While promotions and rebates are nice marketing incentives, I tend to believe that in the long run you get what you pay for. If you have some comparative data to offer along with your opinion, I'm all ears. Thanks.

[beenthere]

Move up to the York 8T series, and get a lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger and compressor, and 10 years on all other parts, automatically. ( Complete system, including thermostat must be York.)

If you do that though, get a duel fuel system.

[ga-hvac-tech]

O K, it appears we are about to go to 'brand wars'... :D

My reasoning for supporting my brand is that I install, service it, and have years of experience with it. Having said that:

I would get the Rheem RGPR furnace in the appropriate size. Then the professional grade RPNE-A series 13 SEER heat pump (if you choose to go with the newer R-410A refrigerant; the model # is RPNL-A and expect the contractor to say you need a new lineset). This unit includes auto-reset high and low pressure switches, a TXV metering device at the HP, and a limited 10 year warranty.

My experience with RUUD (same as Rheem), the products are built well and last.

I would install a 5" media filter system (AirBear, Honeywell, etc), and you could use the Honeywell "IAQ" thermostat system (it will act as the dual-fuel controller). Whatever route you go on the dual-fuel controller, be sure to have the contractor install the outdoor and supply air temperature sensors.

One last thing: The Rheem outdoor unit is the only low profile unit on the market. It is quiet!!!!!

Be SURE you get a contractor that understands how to install and set up this dual-fuel system. And that knowledge will cost you more. The cheapest guy will almost guaranteed not know what he/she is doing.

[beenthere]

O K, it appears we are about to go to 'brand wars'... :D





One last thing: The Rheem outdoor unit is the only low profile unit on the market. It is quiet!!!!!




Hey, the 8T is only half the height of a house. :)

[ampulman]

Move up to the York 8T series, and get a lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger and compressor, and 10 years on all other parts, automatically. ( Complete system, including thermostat must be York.)

If you do that though, get a duel fuel system.

I'm looking at an Affinity system. Is that York thermostat a re-branded version of one of the manufacturers? How does it compare to a Vision Pro IAQ?

AM

[ga-hvac-tech]

Hey, the 8T is only half the height of a house. :)

You know BeenThere,

I suspect one of these days someone will build/market another low-profile unit. There seems to be a void in the market for competition in that area.

I am not familiar with the York line. Maybe someday I will get a chance to learn about it. All I know about it is that I saw one that had the GA bulldogs colors... :D and I am not a GA fan...

What I do know from personal experience is that my RUUD equipment is quiet and reliable.

I suspect you are just as good with your York equipment too... :)

But what we both know (and I hope the HO understands) is that installation is much more important that manufacturer's bells and whistles. As we all know: The best equipment installed sloppily will not work as well as average equipment installed properly.

[jrbenny]

I'm looking at an Affinity system. Is that York thermostat a re-branded version of one of the manufacturers? How does it compare to a Vision Pro IAQ?

AM
Rebranded Honeywell. Vision Pro 8000 is an option. Don't know from memory if York relabels the VP IAQ.

[beenthere]

Rebranded Honeywell. Vision Pro 8000 is an option. Don't know from memory if York relabels the VP IAQ.

I don't think the IAQ is rebranded yet, but the Branch said if we bought it through them it qualified for the extended warranty.

[beenthere]

I suspect you are just as good with your York equipment too... :)

But what we both know (and I hope the HO understands) is that installation is much more important that manufacturer's bells and whistles. As we all know: The best equipment installed sloppily will not work as well as average equipment installed properly.


Its not as tall as I made it out, but its tall enough. (Trane 19i is taller ) :)
I wish they made a low profile.


Yes, install is key. Top of the line equipment doesn't make up for a poor installation.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Could someone tell me if the Rheem RGLQ series is still being made? It is a two-stage downflow Super Quiet 80 in their Classic Plus series. Thanks.

[BaldLoonie]

Nice furnace, current model.

[bout_dem_Gators]

I am now giving some thought to the Rheem RANL series 13.0 SEER that uses R-410A. My thoughts are based on my hopes of getting 15 to 20 years of mostly trouble-free service from the new system. In short, while I'd like to go with the up and coming refrigerant, I naturally feel more comfortable with the tried and seemingly more mature R-22 based technology. However, I am confused by the pro and con arguments I've read in this forum of going with an R-410A based system today. Aside from the higher costs of an R-410A based system and assuming equal quality in the components to match the higher pressures, I suppose that choosing a qualified R-410A contractor is going to be key to a R-410 system without leaks or contaminated lubricating oil.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I am now giving some thought to the Rheem RANL series 13.0 SEER that uses R-410A. My thoughts are based on my hopes of getting 15 to 20 years of mostly trouble-free service from the new system. In short, while I'd like to go with the up and coming refrigerant, I naturally feel more comfortable with the tried and seemingly more mature R-22 based technology. However, I am confused by the pro and con arguments I've read in this forum of going with an R-410A based system today. Aside from the higher costs of an R-410A based system and assuming equal quality in the components to match the higher pressures, I suppose that choosing a qualified R-410A contractor is going to be key to a R-410 system without leaks or contaminated lubricating oil.

Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but I think you are learning... :cool:

The KEY to residential HVAC (well most ALL hvac) is INSTALLATION!!!!!!!!!!!! Be SURE your contractor both knows how and is dedicated to doing a quality job. And you will pay more for this. But you will reap the rewards for years (decades) to come.

Best to you, now go find yourself a good contractor.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but I think you are learning... :cool:

The KEY to residential HVAC (well most ALL hvac) is INSTALLATION!!!!!!!!!!!! Be SURE your contractor both knows how and is dedicated to doing a quality job. And you will pay more for this. But you will reap the rewards for years (decades) to come.

Best to you, now go find yourself a good contractor.
Funny you should say that because contractor #6 just left. This contractor seems to best fit the bill on quality, which is consistent with their track record at the BBB. Our home is 45 years old and apparently was never designed to accommodate an AC system. This contractor discovered that our duct work is undersized for AC and perhaps for Heating as well. One return duct tube is 12 inches with a 12 X 20 grille, while the other tube is only 6 inches with a 14X 14 grille and the AC is 2.5 tons (My parents obviously short changed on the additional 6 inch return installed by the last contractor). The Heating requirement is at 80,000 BTU.

He wants to redo the return tubing to 14" and 10" to increase airflow. He says that the 6" supply ducts would be more costly to redo. However, he contents that just by resizing the returns, we should see a significant improvement in air flow and longer life on the heat exchanger. Worthwhile advice?

[bell3156]

Hey just replying to the quotes in regaurds to my preferance on equipment.
I am a tech for the largest retrofit company in the country, we do roughly 20 mil a yr, 0 new construction. We install about the same amount of york as we do rheem ( keep in mind this is in phoenix and the heating season is light) and the warranty work on rheem is half the warranty work on york and trane which we sell 3x's as many has less warranty work than rheem. I am refering to first yr warranty only. lennox we do not sell. Sorry to all the york dealers, just giving you what I see out here in the desert. I am however a big fan of yorks 2spd condenser fan motor on the new pack units though it is very smooth and quiet.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Funny you should say that because contractor #6 just left. This contractor seems to best fit the bill on quality, which is consistent with their track record at the BBB. Our home is 45 years old and apparently was never designed to accommodate an AC system. This contractor discovered that our duct work is undersized for AC and perhaps for Heating as well. One return duct tube is 12 inches with a 12 X 20 grille, while the other tube is only 6 inches with a 14X 14 grille and the AC is 2.5 tons (My parents obviously short changed on the additional 6 inch return installed by the last contractor). The Heating requirement is at 80,000 BTU.

He wants to redo the return tubing to 14" and 10" to increase airflow. He says that the 6" supply ducts would be more costly to redo. However, he contents that just by resizing the returns, we should see a significant improvement in air flow and longer life on the heat exchanger. Worthwhile advice?

Yes, I think you are learning about this mess... :cool: IMO the increased return will help. But really, you need for the contractor to do a complete load calculation on the entire house (and room by room). Then the total heat gain (A/C) and heat loss (furnace) size can be sized correctly. And with the room by room, the ductwork can be evaluated to see if one room or another needs less or more air.

In defense of your parents that used to own the house (?), few HVAC contractors understood air flow back when... And energy was cheap enough that it did not matter than much.

We live in a computer age where details are the way. Take advantage of the level of expertise that is out there if you find the right guy.

One thing though: I do not give the results of the load calc to the customer until they sign a contract. Reason is that some folks will get a 'free calc', and get the cheap guy to install. Nobody else is going to install my numbers, they can work their own. Just so you will understand if a contractor is vague about details before the sale is closed.

Again, best to you. Let us know how it works out... and pictures (before and after) we like pictures!!!!!!!!!!!

[bout_dem_Gators]

We've had 6 contractors to come out. I believe that 3 of them did a complete "load calculation". However, only the last contractor called the duct size into question. And yes, he was quite vague on giving me the final numbers on resizing the ducts particularly knowing that the cheaper guys were still trying to make a sale. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

I only wish that I had some handy charts and could do some quick reading to better understand how duct sizing is accomplished. I'm not looking to become an expert overnight. I just want enough general knowledge to know if resizing is really necessary before we agree to it.

I'll try to remember to get some before and after shots to share. It's the least I could do. Thanks.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Based on Indoor CFM specs (1000 CFM) on the 2.5 ton Rheem compressor and duct sizing charts I've found on the Net, it appears to me that there is some validity to the contractor's claim on resizing the returns. It seems that a 16" round tube will allow for 1125 CFM. Therefore, the main return tube would go from 12" to 16". But, perhaps because of the small supply duct tubes (6"), the contractor might stop at 14". However, I am even more clueless on what the secondary return for the larger family room would be increased to from the current 6". If we make that return tube an 8" to maintain the current 2:1 size ratio (main tube to secondary tube), I don't see more air moving through that return except what the newer blower might inherently offer. Therefore, I am more inclined to go with a 10" tube for the secondary return. But, what do I know.:o

[ga-hvac-tech]

Mr Gator,

Look at the top of the forum page. You will see a heading: HVAC Calc. Click on that. There is a HO (home owner's) deal you can do for minimal $$$. This is the same program a lot of us use to do a load calc. Now let me mention that this is not simply a chart. Go take a look at it when you have about an hour or so to study it. Then you will understand both why a lot of guys do not do it, and why the ones that do will not freely give away the numbers.

I like your curiosity and thoroughness! I think when you finally sign, you will get a good job. But do not rush it until you are convinced you have learned what you need, and chosen the right guy (gal?)

Enjoy reading about HVAC Calc... ;)

[munanee]

My vote is for Rheem (or Ruud). Great systems.

[martlet]

I'm considering a system similar to the one you have discussed but with the combination of the RPRL-036 (16-Seer HP) and the RGPR furnace also making it dual fuel - and controlled by the Vison Pro IAQ Stat - with outside sensor - and new 'N' series Rheem coil - which I hope will give me 17 seer working in combination.

(RGLQ vs RGPR - looks like a similar furnace with exception of ECM motor on RGPR)

Have you make your final choice? If by chance you have completed the installation - how do you like the system?

Thanks

[ga-hvac-tech]

I think if someone is going to live in their home for a long time (well over 5 years), and they are willing to spend extra $$$ for comfort, they would do well to go the VS blower route (GE ECM motor) in the furnace/AH.

In the case of Rheem/Ruud and in 80% efficiency, that would be the RGPR/UGPR furnace. I believe that in this part of the country (Atlanta area), a 90+ VS furnace with a dual-fuel system is kinda overkill.

It would appear that the market place agrees with that view, as the Rheem/Ruud distributors do not stock their 90% VS furnace in this area.

There is, however, a good place for 90+ furnaces, and that is when venting an 80% is a difficult mess. A basement finish-out on a home that is finished upstairs, comes to mind.

On the A/C side, I would not go beyond 16 SEER in this area (Atlanta or N GA mountains). It does not get hot enough here to truely take advantage of a SEER rating up towards 18-20 or more. Folks in Phoenix AZ where it is like an oven most of the year get their money's worth from a 'very high' SEER unit.

One thing one might want to consider when 'shopping on paper' so to say for this equipment: As one goes higher on the SEER ratings, the need for annual service increases also. What I am saying is that a high SEER unit, like 16 SEER, will not perform well unless it is kept very clean and fine-tuned regularly.

Oh, and if one is going to invest that much money in equipment, one should IMO add a media filter system. Well worth the investment.

This evening, if I can, I will look up the ARI ratings on a 16 SEER system on a VS furnace and see what comes out (Ruud equipment, as I am a Ruud dealer). It would be interesting to see if 17 SEER is possible here.

Note what was said in an earlier thread about the Rheem/Ruud 'N' coil having high SP. Some duct work modification will probably be a must to get this system to work as it was intended.

Best to you on your project!

[martlet]

Thanks for the detailed comments! Yes - I reviewed the comments on the N coil carefully. Your comments on seer payback are also particularly interesting. Just another example of the value of this site.

The key for me is in matching a two stage hp with a two stage furnace with an emc motor and also grab the high warranty - 10/10 which the RPRL HP (16 seer) carries. Looking very long term this looks like a good bet given rising utility costs - both elec and gas. With the HP in operation 24/7 for most weeks - the two stage HP/Furnace operation with the inside ECM motor looks like a worthwhile combination. We stayed in our last house 18 years and are planning to do the same with this one - so the long view is what we are most comfortable taking.

Thanks to all for this interesting thread! Looking forward to hearing from Bout_dem_Gators on an update for his system.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Thanks for the detailed comments! Yes - I reviewed the comments on the N coil carefully. Your comments on seer payback are also particularly interesting. Just another example of the value of this site.

The key for me is in matching a two stage hp with a two stage furnace with an emc motor and also grab the high warranty - 10/10 which the RPRL HP (16 seer) carries. Looking very long term this looks like a good bet given rising utility costs - both elec and gas. With the HP in operation 24/7 for most weeks - the two stage HP/Furnace operation with the inside ECM motor looks like a worthwhile combination. We stayed in our last house 18 years and are planning to do the same with this one - so the long view is what we are most comfortable taking.

Thanks to all for this interesting thread! Looking forward to hearing from Bout_dem_Gators on an update for his system.

Good thoughts there, the 10/10 is a good thing!

If I may ask, would you mind posting a few details about your home? Perhaps the design (ranch, split, etc), and the total sq/ft. I have the ARI specs for the UPRL on my desk. Would like to match them to a furnace and see what comes up. Rheem/Ruud is the only company I have installed that gives out exhaustive ARI specs to the dealers. Funny, but I had to literally twist the arm of my sales rep with Trane to get anything, and even then they were abbreviated. Wonder why Trane does not want to give out ARI specs to their installing dealers... Hmmm...

Anyhow, let us know what you end up with in your planning.

[BaldLoonie]

Looks like the RPRL-36 maxes out at 16.00 SEER. The 2 ton gets 17 in some combinations.

GA, if you can get access to the Trane or A-S dealer sites, you won't believe the amount of performance and ARI data that's there. You can look up specs and parts on a 50 year old Trane if you want. It makes rheemote look primitive. Order extended warranties, claims, submit parts claims... probably much more but that's all the farther I've gone with asdealernet

[ga-hvac-tech]

Looks like the RPRL-36 maxes out at 16.00 SEER. The 2 ton gets 17 in some combinations.

GA, if you can get access to the Trane or A-S dealer sites, you won't believe the amount of performance and ARI data that's there. You can look up specs and parts on a 50 year old Trane if you want. It makes rheemote look primitive. Order extended warranties, claims, submit parts claims... probably much more but that's all the farther I've gone with asdealernet

Hi Loonie,

I heard about that site. My experience with Trane was short-lived. The distributor down here seems to only be interested in larger dealers. And since I am a small company, I just seemed to get passed over... Even tech support seemed too busy for the little guy...

I got to thinking: How will I get good service for my customers if I cannot get good service for myself???

Not a problem with the RUUD distributor here. They are on the spot when I call.

If Trane would work with me, I would consider them again... but ONLY if they can prove they are willing to take care of every dealer, regardless of size. I am not going to subject my customers to bad service from the distributor. After all, as we all know: It is the installation as much (or more) than the equipment.

Wonder what will happen if Home Depot sells H-D supply and Trane and Rheem are no longer under their umbrella???

[bout_dem_Gators]

I could not convince my 83-year old mother, who I am currently the pseudo-caregiver for, to elect the more energy saving components such as two-stage or a heat-pump. I did, however, convince her to pay the 20% higher asking price to the contractor who performed the better load calculations, who appeared better learned, trained, equipped and had the better track record with the BBB.

Here is what she signed up for:

1. RGLN07EAMER 80% AFUE Super Quiet 80
2. RAND030JAZ 13.0 SEER
3. RCFAHM3017 Coil
4. Install new refrigerant tubing
5. Resize the main return to 14" and the family room return to 8"
6. Resize the main return filter grille to 20" X 20"
7. Clean all supply ducts (camera used).

I will be publishing some before and after pics.

[BaldLoonie]

Couple weeks ago while her salesman was out, a customer called and was put through to me. She asked which system of the 3 brands he quoted her I would suggest. I suggested the identical system to what your Mom is getting. She ended up going that way. Salesman was pissed at me, he gets some kickbacks from a distributor of a different brand he was pushing. But I think she got the best of the what he was offering. :)

[BaldLoonie]

Here ya go Gator!

The job I mentioned. Not a WOP job but good for what they had to work with. I hate jogging the flue like that but only way to be able to pull the media out. The stack on the left isn't cooled but it wasn't before and even with the short Rheem furnace, no way to lift up the coil box to get under it.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Thanks for sharing the pics. I'll be back soon with mine.

This system that you recommended for a customer is what all 3 Rheem contractors here initially recommended. Two, of whom, are Rheem Team members. We live right on the border of two different "heating/cooling regions" (for lack of a better way to describe it). Oh, I forgot to mention

8. Extended ten-year parts and labor warranty on the remainder of the system.

BTW, the extended warranty and duct cleaning were added incentives to sign-on.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Houston: We have a few small problems.

1) This 45 year old home has all metal ductwork. During the conversation with the sales person, I recall him stating that when they enlarge the returns, they would be wrapping it with a good insulating material. Today, they show up with Flexiduct and the sales person insists that this is the way residential installations are handled while metal duct tubing is reserved for commercial installations. I thought that I recall reading somewhere that metal ductwork was preferred to Flexiduct.

2) For some reason, that I can't figure out, I thought the contractor of 20 years ago failed to insulate the supply trunk in the crawl space so I contracted to insulate the trunk. When we looked under the house today, there to my amazement is an insulated trunk. I must have had a pre-senior moment. However, the sales person wants to apply a new layer of insulation stating that it is much better than that which was installed 20 years ago. My impression is that he wants to make the money rather than adjust for time and materials. Is it worth applying the extra layer of newer insulation even though the supply ducts have the same 20-year old insulation or should I ask for an adjustment?

Perhaps, a trade off could be getting the metal duct tubing for the returns in place of having an extra layer of new insulation put on the supply trunk.

Lesson learned, get ALL details in writing.

Thoughts, feedback? Thanks.

[kevinmac]

Since you are going to look at Trane I recommend the XLI series. The warranty is 2 years labor, 10 years on all parts when installed as a system including thermo, and any aircleaners if you opt to have one. I f you do choose RUUD or RHEEM it too is a good choice, I had a RUUD for almost 20 years only got rid of it because the condenser base pan rusted out na dwas only about a 10 SEER and things started getting a little shaky, it still ran.

[bout_dem_Gators]

Hello guys:

Though it's been a long time, I wanted to stop in and say thanks for all of the useful advice. Between a terminal illness in the family and legal issues stemming from the contractor falling through the ceiling and not facilitating proper repairs, I got a bit side tracked. Nonetheless, thanks again for all of the help.

[sanmb1455]

CANES

[beenthere]

Your welcome.
And to hear of your families health troubles.