Amana VS Trane; weigh in please

[dogdoc]

:confused: I have been quoted an Amana R22 13 seer 4 ton VS a Trane 14 Seer 2 speed fan(Ithink) with R410; I know Amana has an R410 system but I am NOT sure why the guy did not suggest it; in fact he said they only install Amana and all freon??? They are both small companies; both can do my whole house dehud. system; the third bid was for a 14 seer 4 ton Carrier #24ACA348A003 with furnace and coil to match(won't bore you with those numbers.....but for other reasons I am shying away from them ALTHOUGH I have used them for over 10 years now; is it the install or can any of these truely be better than the other.the Amana was the least expensive quote by almost 20%! Is that surprising? The one bidder said that use anybody but Amana/Goodman.........thnx, Dogdoc, Atlanta

[4l530]

They're both good equipment. Provided it's installed correctly.
The first guy, I suspect, either doesn't want to have to buy 410A or else he's scared of it. In a few years he won't have a choice.
The guy telling you to avoid Amana is ... well, he's just trying to drum up business.

[BaldLoonie]

Which Amana system? The Distinctions line (G model numbers) are just Goodman units and are more to compete with other brands' builder models. The ASC13 is a fine product and will compete well with the XL14i and get 14 SEER. Why didn't he mention the ASX14 with R410a? Hard to say. I know my colleagues don't usually bring up R410a unless the customer asks about it. Some are slower to jump on the new stuff. You can read the debates between pros about it. Also by quoting a "13 SEER unit" that gets 14 he is giving you the price advantage you mention. Or you could ask him to quote the ASX14 which will give up to 15 SEER and qualify for the federal tax credit, something the XL14i can't!

[dogdoc]

does that tell you which one at all; I could just ask? Dogdoc

[Tuck01]

I would not discount Carrier just because of one contractor. I am a Trane and Carrier dealer here in Atlanta. I have only started to use 410A on a majority of my installations in the past 18 months. I have decided that it is in my customers best interest to make the switch from R22 to 410A unless there is a existing piece of equipment less than 2 or 3 years old. 410A works fine and at the very least should be offered to any customer. I would agree with the contractor to not use the "cheap" amama equipment, it is a "goodman" unit. Goodman has gotten better but is still on the low end of the HVAC market. I do not know a lot about the higher end of the Amana line. I will tell you that at this time of the year because of rebates and tax credits that you can get a very high end system (2 speed A/C and variable speed furnace) for a little more than a very good single speed system. Try the Carrier Infinity 21 A/C or dual fuel or the Trane XL19i with variable speed furnaces. They are a lot more upfront but after the rebates and tax credits of up to $1,900.00 they are not quite so high. Plus the comfort and energy savings over time will more than make up the difference in price, especially if you stay there more than four or five years.

[dogdoc]

Tuck, can u contact me? Dogdoc,Atlanta

[Tuck01]

I have sent you an email with my contact information.

[jackpiner]

Stick with Trane or Carrier, you can't go wrong with either 1.

[OregonYeti]

You can go wrong with any system if it isn't installed well.

[rogerk]

I would go with the contractor that has verified that your existing duct work is going to work with the new equipment.;)

[Tuck01]

So, as long as I verify his ductwork will work with his new system he should go with me, that has to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard. How about price, expertise, quality of equipment, length of time in business, etc... but, yep the duckwork (quack, quack) will work with your new system???

And yes, if any system is not installed properly quality of equipment will not matter, unless of coarse the ductwork will work with the new system.

The good part about sticking with the more name brand equipment is that you are more likely to get a good contractor than if you deal with one that sells the low end equipment. And yes if you have the best installer install the worst equipment it will problably work very well, but, the best installer is more likely to work for the company that installs the better equipment.

[OregonYeti]

Tuck, sounds like you know what you are talking about. I don't 100% agree that only a reputable company will install the best equipment, but it's a pretty safe bet.

[Tuck01]

Correct, just because you can offer the best equipment does not mean you are in the top 10% of installation companies, but, if you are in the top 10% of installation companies odds are you are installing one of the top brands (Lennox, Carrier, Trane ... ) Most of the top brands will cease to sell to you if you are damaging their reputation though bad business practices or poor workmanship.

[OregonYeti]

By the way, the company I work for is a Lennox dealer. I know a lot of the Lennox quirks and that helps :D

[Crazy4thenucks]

Stay away from the Amana, they may have improved, but not all that much.
Stick with a reputable manufacturer, ( Carrier, Trane, Lennox, York)
As for the refrigerant, I would go with the 410A. R22 will be phased out by 2010, in Canada at least.

[OregonYeti]

Speaking of brands, I have been impressed with some York units still doing great even if they look like they were installed in the 19th century.

And Rheem furnaces designed brilliantly.

And I think I worked on one Aire-Flo that was still working after 4 years.

And one Coleman that looked ok.

[rogerk]

So, as long as I verify his ductwork will work with his new system he should go with me, that has to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard. How about price, expertise, quality of equipment, length of time in business, etc... but, yep the duckwork (quack, quack) will work with your new system???

And yes, if any system is not installed properly quality of equipment will not matter, unless of coarse the ductwork will work with the new system.

The good part about sticking with the more name brand equipment is that you are more likely to get a good contractor than if you deal with one that sells the low end equipment. And yes if you have the best installer install the worst equipment it will problably work very well, but, the best installer is more likely to work for the company that installs the better equipment.
The duct work among other things. So price?? If the guy is cheap well then I will use him. Thats the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Expertise? I guess if he has a NATE patch then he is good to go? Quality of equipment? Its some copper tubing, a compressor, and a metering device. Its all the same to me, in the end your house is getting cool. Those units with the powder coated paint jobs do look mighty pretty sitting in the back yard and in an attic.:rolleyes: Length of time in business? I been in business 30 years, so I should be the company you use. Not Joe Hvac, cuz he only been doin it 5 years. Thats asinine. BUT dont check the duct work, if the price is cheap, and the guys been doing it a long time, well damn, thats all that matters!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[davidr]

That ductwork will determine the systems efficiency more than the equipment will.

It needs to be one of the top items on your checklist.

[Tuck01]

It is not just about getting your house cool, IAQ, noise, humidity, they all play a part and if you are only thinking of hot and cold you are doing a disservice to your customers. Sure ductwork is important, but, that is by no means the most important item. I am sure you would agree that a complete evaluation of the existing system is where you should start. I never said ductwork is not important and all the things I said when combined will give you a very good chance of finding a good contractor. AGREE??? Focusing only on the existing ductwork is silly!!! AGREE???

[OregonYeti]

Well, do make sure the duckwork is in a row :D

dang that was too cute, now I should change my quote

[Tuck01]

Sorry, I did not mean to sound as bad as I did, I only meant to say that "verifying" the existing ductwork will work with the new system has little meaning to a consumer. An evaluation of existing ductwork is needed as part of an overall evaluation of existing conditions (which of coarse should be part of any estimate.)

[davidr]

Sorry, I did not mean to sound as bad as I did, I only meant to say that "verifying" the existing ductwork will work with the new system has little meaning to a consumer.

You can add some really nice profit to a changeout by addressing the duct issues before you get going.

The majority of our customers freak when they see the equipment they are wanting to purchase can only deliver half it's rated capacity through the existing duct system.

If you walk past this opportunity you are throwing money out the window as well as possible sales.

[SixesRider]

.

[Turko]

I am in the process of getting a new system for basement or replacing existing main system to get zoning for both basement and main system. Also, i am not sure which system is better TRANE or CARRIER.

[AvantGarde]

It was tough, tough, tough deciding this one.

Good installers, good reputation but we boiled it down NOT TO PRICE but to warranty and the Amana had a better HSPF rating....I would have been happy w/the Trane too. I've had one issue w/the Amana and it was fixed quickly under warranty.

Its kicked butt on our heating bill and we're all electric. Now the lower-end units are a different bird....I might have to go w/the Trane if its a rebadged Goodman...even though my bro had a Goodman that ran nearly 24/7 from May-Oct b/c of his crappy leaky house and nary a problem