What should be in a Contract?

[CottyGee]

I'm getting down to the wire. I have a contractor I sort of trust - they have a good reputation over many years, and their salesman did a ManJ and calculated required CFM for each room - all good signs. But given this is a good sized HVAC company, I've not met the Installation Supervisor nor any of the install crew. I lot rides on them!

So I'm thinking that one of the best backups I can have to protect me is language in the contract. I've already asked and they've agreed to specify that the system will be based on Manual J and Manual D specifications. I think that's a good start.

Are there specific performance benchmarks that I should consider asking for? Static pressure ranges or temperature variances between rooms or room pressurization standards??

In addition to benchmarks to ensure system performance, are there any installation standards that should be specified? Or should I just ask that they get permits and pass an inspection?


Thanks in advance. You guys have provided an invaluable wealth of information.

[smokin68]

Total price of job.
Guarantee.
Equipment make and model #'s, and seer rating and hspf rating(some need txv etc. for specific rating)

Length of project(start to completion).

Penalty if project not completed on time(can be extended through mutual agreement)

Installation according to plan( no changing metal duct to flex,etc.)

I'm sure there's more.....

[davo]

I'm getting down to the wire. I have a contractor I sort of trust - they have a good reputation over many years, and their salesman did a ManJ and calculated required CFM for each room - all good signs. But given this is a good sized HVAC company, I've not met the Installation Supervisor nor any of the install crew. I lot rides on them!

So I'm thinking that one of the best backups I can have to protect me is language in the contract. I've already asked and they've agreed to specify that the system will be based on Manual J and Manual D specifications. I think that's a good start.

Are there specific performance benchmarks that I should consider asking for? Static pressure ranges or temperature variances between rooms or room pressurization standards??

In addition to benchmarks to ensure system performance, are there any installation standards that should be specified? Or should I just ask that they get permits and pass an inspection?


Thanks in advance. You guys have provided an invaluable wealth of information.


What system did you choose? I'm sure we would all like to know.

To be honest, We go above and beyond what any customer could feasably expect.
When a customer starts wanting everything in writing from degree differences, pressure differentials, Manual D, Manual J, Manual S,
you may make many contractors walk away, or boost up the price to compensate for a problem customer.

Every day, customers ask us to trust them, that they will pay us when the job is completed. All we ask is you trust us. If you don't trust me, or my abilities, choose someone else.

Here is what I put in my proposals:
All work will be performed in a timely proffessional manner.

50% deposite, balance due upon completion.
Completion constitutes completion of all work, quality assurance check performed by David Vergo (that's me) and customer satisfaction with performance and in installation is achieved.

If you want all the specs, like we do in new construction, you could expect this from me:
70% down, 20% due upon completion of installation, prior to start-up, 10% due upon start-up.

I do agree each piece of Equipment Manufacturer's name, with complete model #'s for all equipment should be stated on all proposals,
along with a complete description of work to be performed, including removal of trash and old equipment, and permits included in the price.

[CottyGee]

What system did you choose? I'm sure we would all like to know.
Well, since I haven't inked the line yet, that's still possibly up in the air! I'm actually waiting on one guy. He's been 2 weeks and hasn't given me anything yet. He got his phone call today to make his play or be out of the game.

Beyond that, I'm looking at two Amana ASZ16 heatpumps - SEER 16, two-speed Copeland scrolls with R410a and a variable speed matching air handler. Specific model numbers were in the proposal, which I left at home.

I talked today with my #1 choice for my job, a guy I trust but can't afford. He basically said he thought I was probably getting a heluva deal on Amana from the manufacturer and that the company I've picked has a good reputation and will do a good job for me. He said he didn't think he could compete with Amana pricing - the closest he could get would be Rheem and he'd still be thousands more. I was glad for that conversation, and will continue to use him for stuff not covered under warranty - and told him that.

[Irishmist]

I feel confident in telling you that what this contractor has done so far is what we would like to see ALL contractors doing. Sounds like he has earned the right to your business. If you are concerned with installation, etc., then contact some of the referrals that I am sure he provided as well. :rolleyes:

If you are comfortable with the individual you have dealt with so far, and have checked them out otherwise, i.e. insured, licensed, etc. then I would feel just as comfortable with the installation crew and supervisor. One is usually a reflection of the other. If that were not the case, they would not have the reputation that they enjoy.

Next, you'll want to know if they share the same religious beliefs as you.

The guy that hasn't showed up for two weeks? Call him back and save him the trip! What is it you are expecting to hear that this other contractor hasn't covered already? Enough is enough!

Yeah, unfortunately different equipment pricing will be reflected in contractor's pricing. Again, I repeat, and this guy has told you the same thing, the other contractor will do you a good job.

Now get on with it already!

all the best, John.

[CottyGee]

The guy that hasn't showed up for two weeks? Call him back and save him the trip! What is it you are expecting to hear that this other contractor hasn't covered already? Enough is enough!
Well, you presume to know something you don't know. You see, I called the nation-wide builder of my home and asked about all of the problems I've had with my system over the 15 years we've lived there. Of course there wasn't anything the builder would do after 15 years, but they do still have a relationship with the same contractor that installed by system 15 years ago. And the builder offered to request that this contractor do the job for the "builder price". And whaddya know, that contractor hasn't submitted his bid. So yeah, he gets a phone call, which he probably won't return. Big deal. Makes it clear - they don't want the job, but are too cowardly to just be upfront and say they don't want to do the job at "builder pricing".

You know, the overall tone of your response is one of those that makes me scratch my head. I have done nothing other than ask questions here - lots of them granted, and I'm grateful for the information and education I've received. I had a grand total of three people to my house that did a Manual J. I had a total of 4 that came to my house that didn't bother to do a Manual J and quoted for the system on the ground. I don't think I've been unreasonable, given that this isn't just a changeout, but a complete system redesign. I'll reiterate - I could go to my neighborhood Chevy dealer and buy a 2007 Cobolt at MSRP and still have money in my pocket for this job. I frankly resent the tone of your response. I'm spending a lot of my hard earned cash on this project, and I deserve to be satisfied. Unfortunately, the only way I can reasonably ensure I will be satisfied is to do a lot of the leg work myself in terms of learning what's what, and protecting myself from the hacks that spend 15 minutes in my house and quote me a builder model replacement for twice it's value.

So I don't see a need to "get on with it already". Nor do I think that comments about wanting to know my installer's religious beliefs are warranted. So, to you and the other few Pros here that make embittered comments (or is it just you?) to homeowners doing their due diligence I say to you - "Enough is enough".

While I remain indebted to the Pros and other knowledgeable forum members who have taken the time to examine my plight and offer thoughts, education and ideas, I would gladly skip over the jaded jabs I see from time to time.

[seatonheating]

John,

Were you serious about the religious beliefs statement??? oh brother..:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[chillbilly]

CottyGee I was glad for that conversation, and will continue to use him for stuff not covered under warranty - and told him that.

That would be a problem for me.
If my company installs your systems, dials them in to manufacturer specs and commissions them, we certainly don't want any other companies or people putting their hands in our work.
I refuse to honor any installation warranty or factory warranty issues that haven't expired if I have evidence that my system installations have been tampered with.

It's perfectly fine for you to be involved and to take a proactive approach in choosing a contractor.
Onnce your choice is made and you have a contract signed, you'll need to back off and let the professionals do their jobs.
Nothing pisses a contractor off any more than a customer attempting to micromanage a project that they do not have the skills to manage.

[CottyGee]

That would be a problem for me.
If my company installs your systems, dials them in to manufacturer specs and commissions them, we certainly don't want any other companies or people putting their hands in our work.
I refuse to honor any installation warranty or factory warranty issues that haven't expired if I have evidence that my system installations have been tampered with.

It's perfectly fine for you to be involved and to take a proactive approach in choosing a contractor.
Onnce your choice is made and you have a contract signed, you'll need to back off and let the professionals do their jobs.
Nothing pisses a contractor off any more than a customer attempting to micromanage a project that they do not have the skills to manage.
So do you offer a lease option on the equipment then? Because if not, it seems to me that I own the equipment and who less I use for service would be my choice.

I'm not sure where your "micromanage the project" comments come from. I don't think I've said or done anything that would support your supposition that I would "micromanage the project".

If I buy a car, does that mean that I should have anyone other than my Dealer change the oil or perform other routine maintenance? Would that void my warranty? So long as the work performed was up to industry standards, or course it would not. I think your attitude is unreasonable and unfounded

[chillbilly]

So do you offer a lease option on the equipment then? Because if not, it seems to me that I own the equipment and who less I use for service would be my choice.
You certainly do own the equipment, but with some stipulations.
First, if there is an install warranty and you bring in someone for service who damages the equipment, would you expect the original installing contractor to honor their warranty? I would hope not.


I'm not sure where your "micromanage the project" comments come from. I don't think I've said or done anything that would support your supposition that I would "micromanage the project".
Well, maybe you should go back and review your posts from start to finish.
In fact, you've made several sarcastic comments that would bring up some definite red flags for many contractors.


If I buy a car, does that mean that I should have anyone other than my Dealer change the oil or perform other routine maintenance?
Would that void my warranty?
Your warranty could very well be voided if the dealership saw evidence that work performed caused damage due to negligence. Most warranties are limited in coverages and allow provisions for negligence.

So long as the work performed was up to industry standards, or course it would not. I think your attitude is unreasonable and unfounded
You've a right to your opinion of my attitude but I have to tell you that if the shoe were on the other foot your opinion might be different.
I can't tell you how many times I've encountered homeowners who will withhold relevant information about their systems because they have had people perform work on their equipment who weren't qualified and damages occured.

[CottyGee]

If I buy a car, does that mean that I should have anyone other than my Dealer change the oil or perform other routine maintenance? Would that void my warranty? So long as the work performed was up to industry standards, or course it would not. I think your attitude is unreasonable and unfounded.

[jkish]

Next, you'll want to know if they share the same religious beliefs as you.

That a pretty sad response.

[chillbilly]

CottyGeeSo long as the work performed was up to industry standards, or course it would not.

Who would be the authority that would deem whether the work was performed up to industry standards? You?
You're not hearing me. Talking about industry standards and qualifications doesn't ensure squat.
I have followed techs who were supposedly qualified by authorities such as NATE and RSES who made errors that caused damages that were costly.
I have had owners who expected me to make repairs at no cost to them after they've allowed these changes.
Again;
I will not stand behind any install warranties where owners have hired other companies to modify or alter my work and I think you're making a mistake by bringing in someone else to perform maintenance and service on a brand new system installed by another company.
Why not sign a maintenance agreement with the installing company?

[Twilly]

Total price of job.
Guarantee.
Equipment make and model #'s, and seer rating and hspf rating(some need txv etc. for specific rating)

Length of project(start to completion).

Penalty if project not completed on time(can be extended through mutual agreement)

Installation according to plan( no changing metal duct to flex,etc.)

I'm sure there's more.....


I don't like the penalty if it's not completed on time unless the bonus is the same if it's done early. Too many things can go wrong on a non standard installation.

[chillbilly]

I don't like the penalty if it's not completed on time unless the bonus is the same if it's done early. Too many things can go wrong on a non standard installation.

I agree. The contract should include equipment, material and install info and payment methods. Design specs can also be included with efficiencies too.
It doesn't have to be overkill.

[pstu]

Might be a good idea NOT to have a penalty clause for time. Time is money for the contractors, they will not want to spend man-hours excessively. At the same time if they hurry, who wins then?

I'm about to pull the trigger on buying a 2-stage AC to replace one of my old units, will work with the guy I've got a history with. Don't even feel like getting a 2nd bid, and I have every confidence he will work fast but not too fast.

Best of luck -- Pstu

[CottyGee]

Winning phrase: "In a timely manner".

[CottyGee]

Who would be the authority that would deem whether the work was performed up to industry standards? You?
Ha! Hardly. I couldn't begin to do that, even with all the help of every person on this forum. But if there WAS a significant problem, you guys might point me in the right direction in getting the right person out to my house to make that evaluation.

You're not hearing me. Talking about industry standards and qualifications doesn't ensure squat.
Of course it does. If someone doesn't adhere to industry standards in performing the job, and it's in the contract, I have legal recourse. I don't imagine it would cover anything other than large variances, since there are lots of ways to skin a cat. But if it's in a contract, it's protection.

I have followed techs who were supposedly qualified by authorities such as NATE and RSES who made errors that caused damages that were costly.
Yes, that happens, I'm sure. People make mistakes - even the best trained guys will sometimes have a bad day. The only thing I'd expect is that the contractor fix the problem and make it right.

I have had owners who expected me to make repairs at no cost to them after they've allowed these changes.
I don't think that's a reasonable expectation on the part of the owners. The guy that made the mistake(s) is liable. If the Jiffy Lube guy puts the oil plug in and forgets to tighten it and the engine seized due to lack of lubrication, I'm certainly not going to go to my car dealer and expect HIM to pay for Jiffy Lube's screwup.

Again;
I will not stand behind any install warranties where owners have hired other companies to modify or alter my work and I think you're making a mistake by bringing in someone else to perform maintenance and service on a brand new system installed by another company.
Why not sign a maintenance agreement with the installing company?
I like my local guy. I've been using him for years. He does good work. He's expensive as all get out, but I've never had a problem with anything he's done.

[chillbilly]

Ha! Hardly. I couldn't begin to do that, even with all the help of every person on this forum. But if there WAS a significant problem, you guys might point me in the right direction in getting the right person out to my house to make that evaluation.
Hmmmm, the right person. You have a guy you swear by and yet, you need to come here to be pointed in the direction of the "right person"??
Somehow, I don't think you are a customer that can be satisfied.


Of course it does. If someone doesn't adhere to industry standards in performing the job, and it's in the contract, I have legal recourse. I don't imagine it would cover anything other than large variances, since there are lots of ways to skin a cat. But if it's in a contract, it's protection.
How can you be sure that they haven't adhered to standards?
If someone comes out and introduces dirt into your refrigerant circuit, how would you know it happened? There may be absolutely no visible evidence of any non-adherence to our standards. Where does the burden of proof then lie?


Yes, that happens, I'm sure. People make mistakes - even the best trained guys will sometimes have a bad day. The only thing I'd expect is that the contractor fix the problem and make it right.
Which contractor? The one that you called out to service a job he had no part in installing? Surely not the contractor who has given you an install and a warranty. If you choose to have your guy come out instead of the installing contractor, you may have problems ever getting the installing contractor out there again.


I don't think that's a reasonable expectation on the part of the owners. The guy that made the mistake(s) is liable. If the Jiffy Lube guy puts the oil plug in and forgets to tighten it and the engine seized due to lack of lubrication, I'm certainly not going to go to my car dealer and expect HIM to pay for Jiffy Lube's screwup.
The fact that you don't think it's reasonable is irrelevant.
It happens frequently.


I like my local guy. I've been using him for years. He does good work. He's expensive as all get out, but I've never had a problem with anything he's done.
Well then, why not use him to do everything?? I mean after all, you trust him immensely and he's all that and a bag of chips.
You'd rather hire a cheaper install company and then have your buddy service your stuff?
You get what you pay for.

[CottyGee]

Chillbilly - you're something else. You really are. You can think whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true.

Just because screwups happen regularly doesn't mean it's right.

It's become clear to me that you are more interested in being argumentative and demeaning than anything else, a.k.a. a troll.

The reason I don't use my local guy is because I couldn't afford him. He didn't have equipment that could compete with the Amana I was quoted. He is very expensive - I've known that for years. But I just can't afford a Cadillac. So I'm settling for a Chevy - with his blessing, I might add, he said the guys I've chosen have a good reputation and he's sure they'll do a good job. I respect that kind of integrity.

[techace79]

i have to say you are what my girl in the office calls a pistol. i know i have to go into diplomat mode on this call. take it easy on us dude. we like what we do and we enjoy our jobs there are a thousand different ways that techs diagnos, repair, and sell systems. they are human and they ride 150 miles on a good work day then deal with whiney homeowners that want to stand beside you and watch you put on the hose to the limit switch that froze in a noreaster. no warranty allowance on that brand new part buddy, an act of god did it.:)

[ItshotinBama]

CottyGee, I think the underlying message here is this....

If you have a local guy you like his work so much, then have him do the install. If you can't afford him, then thank him and go with the company you choose for all of your maintenance and service work.

While I identify with you for wanting the best deal you can get, when you try and separate things like that, you usually end up with less service in the long run.

As others have said, if you have another company working on newer equipment my company installed, if something goes wrong the first thing I am going to do is start asking questions. How do I know they didn't send out a rookie to do maintenance on your 1-yr old unit? How do I know what he did, especially if you start having problems relating to possible contamination/moisture in the system. If I refuse to honor a labor warranty due to such questions, then you think I am the bad guy. This can only cause you headaches. The best thing you can do is find a company you trust and believe in and have them do all your work.

You commented about "all the problems you have had" with your previous system, yet you are waiting for your builder to get the original installer to give you a quote at the "builder's rate"? One, that just means you are going to get builder's grade equipment and the same kind of install you had so many problems with before. Two, while I know you are talking about a lot of money, it seems to me you may be putting the money in front of the quality.

Relax and go with the best deal for you. But show that company some respect and use them for service as well. It will provide you less headaches in the long run, as long as your decision now is made based on quality and not on a lower bid.

[smokin68]

I don't like the penalty if it's not completed on time unless the bonus is the same if it's done early. Too many things can go wrong on a non standard installation.


The only reason I mention the penalty is due to what happened to us, 90 day project turns into 1 1/2 yrs due to contractor sitting on thumb and putting manpower into more profitable areas instead of just finishing job they started. This is less likely to happen in residential, but you never know. The penalty is just a motivator, and as evidenced by ours doesn't always work.I would never give an early bonus only because I feel that would motivate shoddy workmanship in order to get the bonus. JMO.

[CottyGee]

CottyGee, I think the underlying message here is this....

If you have a local guy you like his work so much, then have him do the install. If you can't afford him, then thank him and go with the company you choose for all of your maintenance and service work.

While I identify with you for wanting the best deal you can get, when you try and separate things like that, you usually end up with less service in the long run.

As others have said, if you have another company working on newer equipment my company installed, if something goes wrong the first thing I am going to do is start asking questions. How do I know they didn't send out a rookie to do maintenance on your 1-yr old unit? How do I know what he did, especially if you start having problems relating to possible contamination/moisture in the system. If I refuse to honor a labor warranty due to such questions, then you think I am the bad guy. This can only cause you headaches. The best thing you can do is find a company you trust and believe in and have them do all your work.

You commented about "all the problems you have had" with your previous system, yet you are waiting for your builder to get the original installer to give you a quote at the "builder's rate"? One, that just means you are going to get builder's grade equipment and the same kind of install you had so many problems with before. Two, while I know you are talking about a lot of money, it seems to me you may be putting the money in front of the quality.

Relax and go with the best deal for you. But show that company some respect and use them for service as well. It will provide you less headaches in the long run, as long as your decision now is made based on quality and not on a lower bid.
It's a point worth considering for sure.

As for the original build company, I won't be using them unless I get to pick the type/grade of equipment I want. And even then... Unless it's some kind of irresistible killer deal I won't use them because they're knows to be a bad organization. The only reason I'm considering them at all is because of price, and it will have to be out of this world or it's no go. I should find out today.

LOL - as far as money and quality... The money thing is killing me. There are limits! What I really, really want in my heart of hearts is to have my guy that I've used for years install a Carrier top-of-the-line system, but he doesn't sell Carrier for one and for two, the $$$$ difference I can't swing. Even with his cheapest equipment there's a difference of thousands. It just ain't gonna happen. You can't get blood from a turnip! So if I have to sacrifice some quality for $$$$, then so be it, and if there are issues after 10 years, then I'll bite the bullet at that time. But for the next 10 years, I've covered on parts and labor.

Back to "my guy"... It's a father-son outfit. We're on a first name basis. He lives in the area. I feel bad for not going with him. So offering him routine maintenance was just throwing him a bone, I guess. But I suppose I need to consider what you guys have said. And I've got some time to think it over...

[smokin68]

Unless it's some kind of irresistible killer deal I won't use them because they're knows to be a bad organization. The only reason I'm considering them at all is because of price, and it will have to be out of this world or it's no go. I should find out today.

LOL - as far as money and quality... The money thing is killing me.


With all the quality questions you've asked, the fact that you're even considering this outfit that's known to be a bad organization is baffling. The bottom line is you'd let a monkey install your system if the price is right. You shouldn't worry about quality then, after all with the low initial cost you'll save enough money to pay for the repairs/operating cost for years to come. BTW, everyone likes a good deal, but a good deal isn't usually the lowest price in HVAC.

[CottyGee]

BTW, everyone likes a good deal, but a good deal isn't usually the lowest price in HVAC.
They came in with their quote and were among the most expensive. I think their reputation comes from all the builder installs they do and the corners they cut on those installs to make money at what are probably stupidly low prices. I'm told they used to be a good outfit, but when they got heavy into all the new construction installs, they went down the tubes.

I'm not saying for sure I'd go with them even if they offered an amazing discount. I'm saying I'd consider it carefully. THAT project I would tend to want to micromanage! It ain't worth it if they're going to cut corners. But given their longstanding 15+ year relationship with my builder, it seems I could possibly come out with a smokin' deal AND a good install. Keep in mind, their guy was one of the three of seven that did a ManJ off the bat. We'll see. He left me a voicemail late Friday that I have yet to return.

[chillbilly]

CottyGee, I think the underlying message here is this....

If you have a local guy you like his work so much, then have him do the install. If you can't afford him, then thank him and go with the company you choose for all of your maintenance and service work.

While I identify with you for wanting the best deal you can get, when you try and separate things like that, you usually end up with less service in the long run.

As others have said, if you have another company working on newer equipment my company installed, if something goes wrong the first thing I am going to do is start asking questions. How do I know they didn't send out a rookie to do maintenance on your 1-yr old unit? How do I know what he did, especially if you start having problems relating to possible contamination/moisture in the system. If I refuse to honor a labor warranty due to such questions, then you think I am the bad guy. This can only cause you headaches. The best thing you can do is find a company you trust and believe in and have them do all your work.

You commented about "all the problems you have had" with your previous system, yet you are waiting for your builder to get the original installer to give you a quote at the "builder's rate"? One, that just means you are going to get builder's grade equipment and the same kind of install you had so many problems with before. Two, while I know you are talking about a lot of money, it seems to me you may be putting the money in front of the quality.

Relax and go with the best deal for you. But show that company some respect and use them for service as well. It will provide you less headaches in the long run, as long as your decision now is made based on quality and not on a lower bid.


WOW! I wish I had the skill to turn that type of thinking into such a concise and clear message.
Itshotinbama, thank you very much for conveying what I couldn't.

And cottygee, really, I wish you the best with your installation.

[CottyGee]

And cottygee, really, I wish you the best with your installation.
Thank you. Hopefully I won't need any luck tho, thanks to all of the help I've gotten here.

[timebuilder]

I'm getting down to the wire. I have a contractor I sort of trust - they have a good reputation over many years, and their salesman did a ManJ and calculated required CFM for each room - all good signs. But given this is a good sized HVAC company, I've not met the Installation Supervisor nor any of the install crew. I lot rides on them!

So I'm thinking that one of the best backups I can have to protect me is language in the contract. I've already asked and they've agreed to specify that the system will be based on Manual J and Manual D specifications. I think that's a good start.

Are there specific performance benchmarks that I should consider asking for? Static pressure ranges or temperature variances between rooms or room pressurization standards??

In addition to benchmarks to ensure system performance, are there any installation standards that should be specified? Or should I just ask that they get permits and pass an inspection?


Thanks in advance. You guys have provided an invaluable wealth of information.

Yes.

You should consult an attorney in your jurisdiction for ALL matters relating to contracts.

The reason for that admonition is that two people, while permitted by law to create a contract between themselves (something they cannot do for a third party), the same laws apply to the construction of such an agreement as applies to all other persons creating a contract, including attorneys.

For example, you may choose to create contractual language upon which both of you may agree, but if the construction and application does not agree with accepted legal standards, a portion or all of the contract may become unenforceable in the event that the contract is used before a judge to enforce performance or to seek redress.

And, I also endorse the advice given as a quote from itshotinbama in the post from chillybilly above this one.

[chillbilly]

Thank you. Hopefully I won't need any luck tho, thanks to all of the help I've gotten here.

I didn't wish you luck. I wished you the best.:D :D :D ........

When you get the best, you don't need any stinkin' luck. :D :D :D

[timebuilder]

I didn't wish you luck. I wished you the best.:D :D :D ........

When you get the best, you don't need any stinkin' luck. :D :D :D

Need I mention where one would get the best contract???

:p

[Craftsman]

To answer your question, "What should be in a Contract?" the body of the contract—in its entirety—should be fair and equitable to both signing parties. Neither parties should sign if either feels uncomfortable with any part of the contract. Modify the contract, if necessary and mutually agreed upon, to both parties satisfaction. The scope of the contract should be in keeping with the scope of the job. You do not need a lengthy contract for a small job (in this case, one being of short duration, and inexpensive), and you should not discount the need for one in a large job. I prefer a contract with progress payments, retention, and UCC-1 filings to protect my interest of equipment paid for, but stored elsewhere in the event that something happens and I need to claim materials/equipment that I are legally mine. And, of course, lien releases, both conditional and unconditional.

Watch how the contract is written—including grammar—as the tiniest mistake can cost you dearly. A well-written contract does not have to be lengthy, it just has to be powerful and concise in its meaning, and clarification.

[timebuilder]

To answer your question, "What should be in a Contract?" the body of the contract—in its entirety—should be fair and equitable to both signing parties. Neither parties should sign if either feels uncomfortable with any part of the contract. Modify the contract, if necessary and mutually agreed upon, to both parties satisfaction. The scope of the contract should be in keeping with the scope of the job. You do not need a lengthy contract for a small job (in this case, one being of short duration, and inexpensive), and you should not discount the need for one in a large job. I prefer a contract with progress payments, retention, and UCC-1 filings to protect my interest of equipment paid for, but stored elsewhere in the event that something happens and I need to claim materials/equipment that I are legally mine. And, of course, lien releases, both conditional and unconditional.

Watch how the contract is written—including grammar—as the tiniest mistake can cost you dearly. A well-written contract does not have to be lengthy, it just has to be powerful and concise in its meaning, and clarification.

Excellent.

That's why it is unlikely that a layman can write such a document.

[Shophound]

They came in with their quote and were among the most expensive. I think their reputation comes from all the builder installs they do and the corners they cut on those installs to make money at what are probably stupidly low prices. I'm told they used to be a good outfit, but when they got heavy into all the new construction installs, they went down the tubes.

I'm not saying for sure I'd go with them even if they offered an amazing discount. I'm saying I'd consider it carefully. THAT project I would tend to want to micromanage! It ain't worth it if they're going to cut corners. But given their longstanding 15+ year relationship with my builder, it seems I could possibly come out with a smokin' deal AND a good install. Keep in mind, their guy was one of the three of seven that did a ManJ off the bat. We'll see. He left me a voicemail late Friday that I have yet to return.

"Smokin' deal AND a good install" are very seldom synonymous terms.

In my estimation, a 15 year relationship with a homebuilder wouldn't carry a lot of weight for me. That could be 15 years of slapping in builder model equipment and flying spaghetti monster ductwork at cut rate pricing...the builder laps this up as it keeps his overhead down. In addition, there could be hundreds of other marginally performing systems out there like yours...not enough to rally the homeowner to rail and rail on the builder until something is done, but also not enough to give premium comfort to the homeowner. The builder then believes everything is honky dory with his chosen "slap 'em in and gas 'em up" sub contractor.

At this point I would be tempted to tell you to go with your trusted man installing the cheapest equipment he sells (and I realize you've already stated your objections to this above), vs. the firm that installed your home's original system...holding out hope he'd give you a "smokin' deal and a good install". Think about it...if this company's specialty is cranking out builder model installs house after house after house, THAT is their labor pool and skill level! Where's the talent pool to render the level of install quality you want if their main source of bread and butter is slapping in tract house bottom line stuff?

I will also have to weigh in with the others...if you find a good contractor and he does the install, allow him to honor his warranty and provide service for your system. "Throwing a bone" to your other guy might seem honorable, but it's more like as it sounds...i.e. "throwing a bone". It doesn't set the stage to generate good will between your installing contractor and yourself.

An installed HVAC system isn't just an intricate comfort process, it also involves human relationships to keep that thing running as best it can.

[CottyGee]

"Smokin' deal AND a good install" are very seldom synonymous terms.

In my estimation, a 15 year relationship with a homebuilder wouldn't carry a lot of weight for me. That could be 15 years of slapping in builder model equipment and flying spaghetti monster ductwork at cut rate pricing...the builder laps this up as it keeps his overhead down.
I have no doubt the situation is exactly as you describe. The 15 yr. relationship MIGHT carry weight with the A/C contractor and he MIGHT be willing to cut a tempting deal.

I agree with you this would be the riskiest possible thing I could do. Of that I have no doubt! The deal would have to be "smokin'" enuf for me to hire people to ensure that it's done right - like a lawyer and an HVAC pro of some variety. It likely wouldn't be pretty. And I'm not likely to do that direction. Besides, I'm probably going to be offered something like $1,000 off, and that's not NEAR enough to make it a worthwhile gamble... But it's it's ten times that amount (HA!)... :D