why do Republicans hate the troops

[wen-sar]

Republicans on this website have ignored the problems at Walter Reed that affect our soldiers.. not one has raised the issue or responded when i raised the issue several times..

our soldiers have received terrible care at not just building 18 Walter Reed but at many other VA hospitals.. that is how the Bush administration and Republicans who held power until 45 days ago treat our soldiers..

it is entirely Republicans to blame for the disgraceful conditions our troops have been placed into..

help a soldier.. speak out.. make sure it becomes the only subject that our politicians are allowed to see..

:D

[James 3528]

Yes, this is what you get with Socialized medicine. And it takes an act of congress to fire a civilian VA worker. Their Union.

This is some insight of what Hillary had in store for the country. Excellent VA hospitals around me. Everything looks like it turns to crap in Washington DC. Isn't it about 98% democrat?

[hvactech13]

Republicans on this website have ignored the problems at Walter Reed that affect our soldiers.. not one has raised the issue or responded when i raised the issue several times..
our soldiers have received terrible care at not just building 18 Walter Reed but at many other VA hospitals.. that is how the Bush administration and Republicans who held power until 45 days ago treat our soldiers..
it is entirely Republicans to blame for the disgraceful conditions our troops have been placed into..
help a soldier.. speak out.. make sure it becomes the only subject that our politicians are allowed to see..
:D

This is from the VA to the Pentagon.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

March 2, 2007



Pentagon Urged to Move Walter Reed Patients to VA Facilities Closer to Home

WASHINGTON—The Disabled American Veterans (DAV) has called upon Defense Secretary Robert Gates to take immediate action to provide decent, sanitary housing for recuperating soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and to consider moving them to Department of Veterans Affairs facilities closer to their homes.

In a forceful letter to Secretary Gates, DAV National Commander Bradley S. Barton expressed the organization’s concerns raised in articles published by the Washington Post about the appalling living conditions for wounded veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan while they undergo outpatient care and discharge and medical retirement out-processing at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

The articles document benign neglect affecting hundreds, and over time, thousands, of soldiers at what has often been touted as the Army’s premier medical treatment facility.

“If the Defense Department can’t or won’t provide our injured soldiers with the decent living conditions they need and deserve, they should be given the option of moving to VA facilities closer to their homes where they can receive top-notch health care and rehabilitation services that will improve their quality of life,” said Commander Barton.

The VA is well-suited to provide services to these soldiers and already has agreements in place with the Defense Department to care for military personnel. There are hundreds of soldiers being treated today at VA poly-trauma centers and other medical facilities as inpatients and outpatients.

Barton also noted that the VA consistently sets the benchmark for patient satisfaction, according to the American Customer Satisfaction Index developed by the University of Michigan Business School. The Institute of Medicine has recognized the VA as one of the best in the nation for its integrated health information system. And a comprehensive study by Harvard Medical School found that federal hospitals, including those run by the VA, provide the best care available anywhere for some of the most common life-threatening illnesses.

“Keeping our wounded soldiers on outpatient status in sub-standard living conditions for months or years is disgraceful and demeaning. No wonder many of them feel betrayed and abandoned by a government that claims to support our troops while leaving them to languish in moldy, vermin-infested housing,” Barton said.

“The brave men and women who have served and sacrificed for our nation deserve to be treated with dignity and respect,” Barton said. “It is a travesty to treat them this way when there are much better options available.”

The 1.3 million-member Disabled American Veterans, a non-profit organization founded in 1920 and chartered by the U.S. Congress in 1932, represents this nation’s disabled veterans. It is dedicated to a single purpose: building better lives for our nation’s disabled veterans and their families. For more information, visit the organization’s Web site www.dav.org.


Have you volunteered at the VA yet?

[wen-sar]

i am a Vietnam veteran..

i do help out at the VA hospital in Long Beach..

i remain a member of the VFW..

i have sent money's to Cher's helmet program for our soldiers in Iraq..

and in here i am trying to force people to speak out about the disgraceful treatment of our Iraq veterans..

when i first heard about the mismanagement of our troops i called our Governors office and told them we must bring our soldiers home and care for them here.. if each state would take responsibility for their own soldiers the care would improve..



speak out about the failure of Republicans to equip our soldiers.. perhaps public shame will force them to stop taking bribes long enough to help our soldiers.. yes, i do blame Republicans.. George W. Bush has mismanaged the entire Iraq invasion, occupation and treatment of our soldiers.. the training has been poor, our soldiers are not properly equipped, and support by the congress was a disgrace..

yes, congress is now controlled by democrats (for the last 45 days).. and yes they must be held to account when they gain full control.. and they are not trying to cut funding for the troops that is republican smear hoping to hide republican failure..

:D

[fastfred]

Regarding medical for veterans service related injuries:
Presently there are not enough VA facilities to properly care for the troops. The government wants to privatize and reduce the current number of facilities.
It has been suggested that the veterans be treated at medical centers and hospital facilities throughout the country, in others words close the VA hospitals and give the veterans treatment at centers most appropriate and nearest their families and homes. If it were my decision, the vets would receive the same level of care that is available to congress persons.
Every person in this country should be expressing outrage when the gov tries to reduce care levels for the injured and disabled troops in the middle of a war. Just as despicable when done to veterans after the fighting stops.

When I stated to someone recently that the disabled and injured vets deserved the best care available, his response was" they volunteered so they knew what they were getting into" . Beyond Stupid!!

[James 3528]

Closing the VA centers and privatizing the veterans care may be the way to go. Congress doesn't go to a VA hospital for their care. It is not a issue that a political party is to blame for. Bureaucrats have been around a long time and they have never ran anything right. Using this for a political punching bag is retarded. One could look at the deaths due to the lack of FDA inspections at meat packing plants on Clinton's watch that killed 6 year olds and blame Clinton or democrats equally if you were as retarded as the person that started this thread.

Shame on making this political. Liberals always expose themselves as users of soldiers for political reasons, surprised they are not spitting on them at airports yet.

[The Doctor]

Closing the VA centers and privatizing the veterans care may be the way to go. Congress doesn't go to a VA hospital for their care. It is not a issue that a political party is to blame for. Bureaucrats have been around a long time and they have never ran anything right. Using this for a political punching bag is retarded. One could look at the deaths due to the lack of FDA inspections at meat packing plants on Clinton's watch that killed 6 year olds and blame Clinton or democrats equally if you were as retarded as the person that started this thread.

Shame on making this political. Liberals always expose themselves as users of soldiers for political reasons, surprised they are not spitting on them at airports yet.
give it time, james. they obviously learn slow too, and making political hay out of seeds they planted is just a way of life to these suckers.

[geerair]

speak out about the failure of Republicans to equip our soldiers.. perhaps public shame will force them to stop taking bribes long enough to help our soldiers.. yes, i do blame Republicans.. George W. Bush has mismanaged the entire Iraq invasion, occupation and treatment of our soldiers.. the training has been poor, our soldiers are not properly equipped, and support by the congress was a disgrace..
You have hit the nail squarely on the head.

The Bush administration and the Republican controlled Congress owns the war, owns the Walter Reed scandal, owns its non caring attitude for the men and women they sent in harm's way.

The Bush administration has never cared for the troops as is clearly exemplified by their actions which wen-sar has listed.

After all of the Bush administration's fabrications, bungling, ineptness and plain don't give a damn attitude there are still those looking to blame others for Bush's actions and still supporting what has become the biggest debacle of an administration in U.S. history.

[coolwhip]

Looks like geer and tinhead have an apprentice.

[James 3528]

give it time, james. they obviously learn slow too, and making political hay out of seeds they planted is just a way of life to these suckers.
It worked out so well that Geer posted behind you proving my point. ;)

[hvactech13]

Look at the treatment and care of American soldiers following any war and you can find something lacking. It isn't just this war, it has been every war that people can find fault in treatment. Any reason to bash on the current administration apparently warrants a post I guess. Try worrying about finding a cure instead of whining about the cause. :mad:

[CASHKING]

It was my understanding that bad language would be censored. Imagine what the forum might look like if we were not allowed to use the words "Republican", "Democrat", "Conservative", "Liberal." If an individual is for one side, the knee jerk reaction is to lash out against everything the other side does. How would this read if we simply expressed our views on an issue without pointing fingers, but instead, on expressing our views as to why a particular issue is good or bad without politically stereo typing? Is it shameful that our soldiers receive the treatment we hear about after they have sacrificed their lives and well being for us? It is indeed shameful, and we can all agree on that. Now, if a solution can be provided, does it really matter which party provides the solution? Each party wants to do it it's own way, and therein lies the problem. I would believe all want to fix it. They have the power to do so, so just git'er done!!! Our soldiers deserve it!!!!

[oloenneker]

All I have to say about the Walter Reed faisco is this:

Privatizing the government simply does not work. Walter Reed is a great example of this, as is the pay differential between Contactors in Iraq Vs. our troops...

It's a massive failure that the Righies around here are going to be slow to realize...

There are just certain things that CANNOT be run by private business, because some things cannot be profit driven.

[geerair]

All I have to say about the Walter Reed faisco is this:

Privatizing the government simply does not work. Walter Reed is a great example of this, as is the pay differential between Contactors in Iraq Vs. our troops...

It's a massive failure that the Righies around here are going to be slow to realize...

There are just certain things that CANNOT be run by private business, because some things cannot be profit driven.True. And somebody posting on this thread didn't realize the patient care at Walter Reed was already privatized

[oloenneker]

True. And somebody posting on this thread didn't realize the patient care at Walter Reed was already privatized

Thats because, as usual, they don't know Jack snizz about what is really happening... What a suprise!

And, as a fact, was it not Donald Rumsfeld that said that they should close down Walter Reed because it was "antiquated and old"? Hmm...

Sure, lets phase it out , and insert some non government workers to make it more "profitable", even though it has been proven that privatization is more expensive than the "government" run system they had before... Hmmmm... Who's making a buck off this war?

But alas, to quote Dick Cheney: " I think that Iraq has been a huge success"...


If ya say so, Dickey....

[James 3528]

True. And somebody posting on this thread didn't realize the patient care at Walter Reed was already privatized
You two get dumber every day....I love the generalization that have nothing to do with each other that you dummies think prove anything. Liberalism is truly a mental disorder

[The Doctor]

All I have to say about the Walter Reed faisco is this:

Privatizing the government simply does not work. Walter Reed is a great example of this, as is the pay differential between Contactors in Iraq Vs. our troops...

It's a massive failure that the Righies around here are going to be slow to realize...

There are just certain things that CANNOT be run by private business, because some things cannot be profit driven.

agreed oloenneker.
the gov't shouldn't have to be in the business of doing these things. that breakdown is squarely on the shoulders of those who farm out compassion to the gov't. in other words, both sides of the aisle have been content to let someone else take care of it.
I will say in liberalism's defense, not that it needs my help:rolleyes: , that at its root liberalism is about helping people. The balance to that is to not enshrine the government in the process... limited government.
which necessitates my helping people in need, and your helping people in need
what do ya think?

[James 3528]

True. And somebody posting on this thread didn't realize the patient care at Walter Reed was already privatized

The point was to remove soldiers from the bureaucracy and give them medical services that congressmen get from the private sector. duh. That would mean no more Walter Reed's

[James 3528]

agreed oloenneker.
the gov't shouldn't have to be in the business of doing these things. that breakdown is squarely on the shoulders of those who farm out compassion to the gov't. in other words, both sides of the aisle have been content to let someone else take care of it.
I will say in liberalism's defense, not that it needs my help:rolleyes: , that at its root liberalism is about helping people. The balance to that is to not enshrine the government in the process... limited government.
which necessitates my helping people in need, and your helping people in need
what do ya think?

What vast system does government run right flawless ? If you read between the lines and lots of the time you don't need too, liberals want the government doing more and if it does something wrong which most of the time it does because in reality unionized employees that past the buck run it, it's someone else's fault and the solution is more people or pouring more money on it.

This hung above my desk in the military. It was aimed at the civil service employees that worked there.

Six Phases of a Project

1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. A Search for the Guilty
5. The Punishment of the Innocent
6. Praise and Honor for the Non-Participants

[The Doctor]

What vast system does government run right flawless ? If you read between the lines and lots of the time you don't need too, liberals want the government doing more and if it does something wrong which most of the time it does because in reality unionized employees that past the buck run it, it's someone else's fault and the solution is more people or pouring more money on it.

This hung above my desk in the military. It was aimed at the civil service employees that worked there.

Six Phases of a Project

1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. A Search for the Guilty
5. The Punishment of the Innocent
6. Praise and Honor for the Non-Participants

okay now this is getting scary!
I kid you not, I wrote those 6 phases of a project down last night to post them somewhere on this site. I saw them in a NOAA bldg a few years ago on a bulletin board, and last night after dinner it occurred to me to write them down for a laugh. glad someone can enjoy them
liberals extreme approach to having the govt do everything IS the problem. they do not understand that limited gov't necessitates that we as individuals take action to care for other people. I would venture a guess that this is the reason why Founding Fathers have been quoted as saying to the effect that this form of gov't would not work without people already having some grounding in a religion. That may be out of context, but it can help to develop an approach to scaling back gov't while caring for people who need the help.
and gov't failures do exactly as you say--give libs a reason to throw more money at it.
BTW, I think number 3 included '...and hysteria" . Whaddya think?

[geerair]

The point was to remove soldiers from the bureaucracy and give them medical services that congressmen get from the private sector. duh. That would mean no more Walter Reed'sNot hardly.

Your point was that the scandal at Walter Reed was a result of socialized medicine.

Unfortunely for your lame argument, you are so uninformed that you didn't know that patient care there was already privatized. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[James 3528]

Not hardly.

Your point was that the scandal at Walter Reed was a result of socialized medicine.

Unfortunely for your lame argument, you are so uninformed that you didn't know that patient care there was already privatized. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Umm , no Einstein. Hiring contractors is not a service outside the bureaucracy that is there now. Not the same as what congressmen get OR people with Insurance at a for profit hospital. You write like you are a Veteran and have visited a VA hospital. But then again you also think you can split atoms with your mind. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[geerair]

Private contractor is privatized patient care. No feds running the patient care.

See how that works?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[chillbilly]

All I have to say about the Walter Reed faisco is this:
Privatizing the government simply does not work. Walter Reed is a great example of this, as is the pay differential between Contactors in Iraq Vs. our troops...

Name a program the government manages correctly.


There are just certain things that CANNOT be run by private business, because some things cannot be profit driven.
There is a point in there somewhere. I would entrust effective management practices to privately owned companies as opposed to government mismanagement every single time. They don't always get it right, but they do a hell of a better job than the government does.

The government is in the business of wasting and spending money.Their income is guaranteed.
If they need more, they simply sieze it.

Private enterprise is in the business of making money with no guaranteed profits.
They must manage effectively or else someone will take their place.

It's a no brainer for anyone who has experience in seeing how the government operates and has the brains to recognize their dysfunction.

[James 3528]

There are just certain things that CANNOT be run by private business, because some things cannot be profit driven.


Really? How do you think the government is driven. It is drive on the profit it takes in the form of taxes. Everything the government does is in fact profit driven. It doesn't make a profit, it takes away the profits. When a government can't take profits from the people, it collapses.

You might try studying ancient and modern empires that have collapsed.

[chillbilly]

James 3528;
You might try studying ancient and modern empires that have collapsed.
Or just studying facts (instead of opinion and rhetoric) would be a good start.
Privitization is a direct result of factual evidence that proves that the government is a colossal giant of wastage.
Again, if you have to be accountable for profitability(as private companies do) it's entirely different.
Private companies are far more successful dealing with programs the government has a history of fuggin' up.
Not perfect. But far better.

I'm curious as to why all the people who advocate big government doing what's best for them, are the first ones to point the finger when scandal appears.
I guess they think the tooth fairy will send them some honest people to administer government programs fairly and properly.
Sheesh.

[James 3528]

Or just studying facts (instead of opinion and rhetoric) would be a good start.
Privitization is a direct result of factual evidence that proves that the government is a colossal giant of wastage.
Again, if you have to be accountable for profitability(as private companies do) it's entirely different.
Private companies are far more successful dealing with programs the government has a history of fuggin' up.
Not perfect. But far better.

I'm curious as to why all the people who advocate big government doing what's best for them, are the first ones to point the finger when scandal appears.
I guess they think the tooth fairy will send them some honest people to administer government programs fairly and properly.
Sheesh.

The air is thin where Wanker is and Geer brain is starved for air because his ego is blocking it.

[frozensolid]

I think the health care our troops have received from the current admin is the same as spitting on them.

Thats right we can just blame it on the unions, right James.

[chillbilly]

I think the health care our troops have received from the current admin is the same as spitting on them.

Thats right we can just blame it on the unions, right James.

If you're asserting that the current admin is responsible for for what is wrong at Walter Reed, I'd suggest you look at what entity is responsible for spending every dime of money that pays for their care and makes the laws that ensure their care.


This is typical liberal smear and it not only ignores the actual causes of the problem, it creates a diversion for those who should be accountable, to disappear under the cloud of polarized politics.

[glennac]

Question? Why would anyone other than a crazy dem want to even post on this absurd thread. The title by itself makes my blood rise. We should at least argue on a thread that is not so red. RED in the communist color. :eek: :eek:

[wen-sar]

"The government is in the business of wasting and spending money.Their income is guaranteed.
If they need more, they simply sieze it.

Private enterprise is in the business of making money with no guaranteed profits.
They must manage effectively or else someone will take their place."

chillbilly

"I'd suggest you look at what entity is responsible for spending every dime of money that pays for their care and makes the laws that ensure their care."

chillbilly



these are of course foolish falsehoods which are not accurate..

private businesses in fact fail every day because they are not effective.. and private businesses can easily make money (profits) without delivering quality products or services.. the argument that giving our soldiers medical care to private companies would guarantee better quality than government can provide is ridiculous.. there is no guarantee in either case.. government managed by competent people can just as easily deliver quality care at a cost benefit return rate which is equitable.. government has provided social security for millions, the argument that it costs a lot does not mean that it is ineffective, merely that it costs a lot.. how many times have you heard techs say "buy the best quality tool you can afford, don't buy cheap tools" well that is exactly what government has done in many cases.. yes it has cost a lot.. but yes it has provided millions with quality services..

finally, yes you must look at who has run the government for the last 6 years.. oh, you thought it was about democrats in charge now.. you thought hey blame them.. not hardly.. they have been in for about 50 days.. they have not been running Walter Reed or the war or any of the other messes Republicans have created and fostered for 6 long years.. so thank you chillbilly for bringing that up.. even if you did intend to smear democrats for Republican screwups..

:D

[James 3528]

We have a Stalin clone here. LOL

[James 3528]

Walter Reed is not part of the VA system.

[wen-sar]

apparently some in here want us to believe that Walter Reed and building 18 and the entire hospital network provided our returning soldiers is somehow not in the scope of the Republican government run system over the Iraq invasion, occupation period.. this of course is just dumb..

if the Republican run government is not in control.. what was the point of the firing of those failed generals.. what was the point of telling those soldiers wounded that they could not talk to reporters within the confines of Walter Reed building 18 and other locations.. how was it possible for Gates to fire those generals if they weren't running things..

the failures of treating our returning soldiers appropriately has been Republican failure..

:D

[geerair]

apparently some in here want us to believe that Walter Reed and building 18 and the entire hospital network provided our returning soldiers is somehow not in the scope of the Republican government run system over the Iraq invasion, occupation period.. this of course is just dumb..

if the Republican run government is not in control.. what was the point of the firing of those failed generals.. what was the point of telling those soldiers wounded that they could not talk to reporters within the confines of Walter Reed building 18 and other locations.. how was it possible for Gates to fire those generals if they weren't running things..

the failures of treating our returning soldiers appropriately has been Republican failure..

:DYeah, the optional, unjustified invasion and lack of concern for the troops are Bush and Republican owned enterprises.

The Walter Reed scandal is one more foul smelling turd for Bush's legacy as the Worst President in U.S. history.

[James 3528]

apparently some in here want us to believe that Walter Reed and building 18 and the entire hospital network provided our returning soldiers is somehow not in the scope of the Republican government run system over the Iraq invasion, occupation period.. this of course is just dumb..

:D

You two and Murtha are the only two morons I can confirm that do.

It isn't about the soldiers. America knows how liberals feel about the soldiers. Nice try.

Liberals don't join the military and the military don't vote for them.

Al Gore tried to block their votes from being counted.

[geerair]

You two and Murtha are the only two morons I can confirm that do.

It isn't about the soldiers. America knows how liberals feel about the soldiers. Nice try.

Liberals don't join the military and the military don't vote for them.

Al Gore tried to block their votes from being counted.Let's see:

soldiers laying in their own urine

deplorable conditions at Walter Reed


no coherent plan to deal with insurgency problem

Lack of proper armor for troops


Lack of proper armor for vehicles


sending soldiers off to die and be maimed in an invasion and occupation for which the justifications were fabricated


Yep, that is how Republicans "Support the Troops"

[James 3528]

How did the military all of a sudden lack Armour? Did Bill Clinton leave with it? Or just didn't but it....huuuumm may explain what he called a surplus.

Like I said, nice try.

[geerair]

How did the military all of a sudden lack Armour? Did Bill Clinton leave with it? Or just didn't but it....huuuumm may explain what he called a surplus.

Like I said, nice try.Sudden? Bush was in charge for two years before he invaded Iraq. He was warned by many including his own father that an invasion and occupation of Iraq would be bloody.

No, the blame here is fully with Bush, Cheney and Rummy who tried to do the war "on the cheap", without any concept of what they were getting into and no understanding of the type of warfare they would face.

Bush has been in charge now for six years and yet soldiers or their parents are still having buying armor and vehicles are in use that do not have proper armor.

IED's are still deadly and Bush is the man responsible.



Try again.

[James 3528]

Sudden? Bush was in charge for two years before he invaded Iraq. He was warned by many including his own father that an invasion and occupation of Iraq would be bloody.

No, the blame here is fully with Bush, Cheney and Rummy who tried to do the war "on the cheap", without any concept of what they were getting into and no understanding of the type of warfare they would face.

Bush has been in charge now for six years and yet soldiers or their parents are still having buying armor and vehicles are in use that do not have proper armor.

IED's are still deadly and Bush is the man responsible.



Try again.I see you have no idea about military logistics. That's right, you were 4F. So what you are saying since Clinton never had any intentions of using the military except to phase homosexuals into it, there was no need for amor on his watch.

I believe he used the term "peace dividend" as a reason for not acquiring armor, or just about anything else that had trained pilots and other professionals in a mass exodus .

[geerair]

I see you have no idea about military logistics. That's right, you were 4F. So what you are saying since Clinton never had any intentions of using the military except to phase homosexuals into it, there was no need for amor on his watch.Rather I am saying that Bush had two years to supply the military properly for his vanity war but figured to do it on the cheap without any understanding of the consequences for the men on the ground in Iraq.

It is six years later and still the need for armor for men and vehicles is critical.

One of these days you and Bush will have to take responsibility for your own actions, stand on your own two feet and cease blaming Clinton for all of your own shortcomings. :rolleyes: