RTU question

[epacertified]

I dont do many rtu,s so when I do get a call I,m always looking to learn.
Went on a no heat call with a seasoned Commercial friend and found a bad 70 amp fuse which prevented unit from starting.
The fuse blowing is a differant storie for a differant day.
My question is
After replacing the fuse and restarting the unit ..I expected the inducer to fire up in short order.
The guy I was with said something about a 5 min delay???
The main blower fired up immediately
But not the inducer.
We went for a coffee and sure enough when we returned it was running.
What is a expected seq of operation when dealing with rooftops???

[epacertified]

I will add:
It was 530 am it was dark and cold and I just wanted it running.
Oh ya It was a Carrier Gaspack on the roof of a Dinning hall where 200 people where expecting Breakfast.

[timebuilder]

Every time the power is interrupted, there will be a delay before the unit returns to normal operation. The indoor fan will start first, and when the delay is complete, the unit will begin firing if there is a call for heat.

[big johnson]

Every RTU I've worked on has some sort of delay for the start of the heating sequence. 5 minutes is almost an industry standard whether it be direct gas fired, indirect gas fired, heat pump or an electric resistance coil.

[Diceman]

Blowing a 70 amp fuse is another matter.
Did ya check the compressors, one might be shorted to ground.
Like the guys said, most units have built in delays.
If this has an led light, check that for proper signals, that will tell you a lot.

[epacertified]

Blowing a 70 amp fuse is another matter.
Did ya check the compressors, one might be shorted to ground.
Like the guys said, most units have built in delays.
If this has an led light, check that for proper signals, that will tell you a lot.
First thing we did was check all leads to ground (no dead short)
So not to piss off 200+ hungrey guests we fired her up! the fuse problem will resurface and hopefully we will have time and not be under the gun Next time.

[Diceman]

It could be from old age and poor connections as well.
Or the pump is drawing locked rotor.

[john dalton]

Dear Epacertified,

After reading your original post and bio, three items, or comments come to mind:

First, to answer your original posted question of:

“…What is a expected sequence of operation when dealing with rooftops???”

With the thermostat set for heat or automatic system operation, the fan switch set to the auto position, and a call of heat, the sequence is as follows:

1. Inducer fan motor starts
2. Inducer proving switch proves inducer fan operation.
3. The hot surface igniter is turned on (or the spark igniter is turned on).
4. The pilot solenoid valve on the main gas valve is turned on.
5. If the hot surface or spark igniter lights the pilot light, then the main gas valve is turned on.
6. After a time, or temperature delay (depending on the make, model, and type of gas system) the evaporative fan motor is started.

The fact that the evaporative fan motor started immediately would usually indicate one of two things, either the fan switch on the thermostat was turned to the on position, or the gas system is a modern electronic type that senses a power down in it’s microprocessor based furnace control system and immediately turns on the evaporative fan on a power up to dissipate any excess heat that might have built up inside the furnace heat exchanger if the power outage was of a momentary or short duration cycle.

My second item or comment was as Diceman posted:

“Blowing a 70 amp fuse is another matter.”

Quite frankly your posted comment surprised me:

“…the fuse problem will resurface and hopefully we will have time and not be under the gun Next time.”

I have to tell you friend, I’m sure glad your not my heart doctor, “I know your heart stopped, but I got it going for you, and hopefully we will be there next time, if we have the time, to get you going again. Sorry, but that type of service doesn’t sound like the service I would want from anyone who services me, or my equipment. The time to find the problem with the fuse is now, not later, even with 200 people downstairs, most of your diagnostic testing of the equipment will be with the system on, at best, your should have ask the Client when the people will be done so you could return and COMPLETE your diagnostic checkout of the equipment.

Third and lastly, your posted “2many 2 list” answer under “Credentials” in your bio sounds far fetch at best. Let me help you, just answer the following:

How many years of formal education (college or trade school)
NATE certification
RSES certification
State contractor’s license
Any national recognized HVAC/R testing organizations (ACCA, ASHREA, ARI, ect)

Come on, brag about yourself so we here at this forum know where you are coming from.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[refrtech]

70 amp fuses do not blow just for the hell of it !!!! Me personally , I would NOT have replaced the fuse without finding out what blew it !! I could see a power blip blowing a little 1 or 2 amp control fuse , but a 70 amp fuse .......... come on man , there IS something up there . It could be as simple as a compressor grounded OR maybe a wire hanging somewhere just waiting to cause a fire . Check it out !!

[edrock]

Well said. I agree 100%.

Dear Epacertified,

After reading your original post and bio, three items, or comments come to mind:

First, to answer your original posted question of:

“…What is a expected sequence of operation when dealing with rooftops???”

With the thermostat set for heat or automatic system operation, the fan switch set to the auto position, and a call of heat, the sequence is as follows:

1. Inducer fan motor starts
2. Inducer proving switch proves inducer fan operation.
3. The hot surface igniter is turned on (or the spark igniter is turned on).
4. The pilot solenoid valve on the main gas valve is turned on.
5. If the hot surface or spark igniter lights the pilot light, then the main gas valve is turned on.
6. After a time, or temperature delay (depending on the make, model, and type of gas system) the evaporative fan motor is started.

The fact that the evaporative fan motor started immediately would usually indicate one of two things, either the fan switch on the thermostat was turned to the on position, or the gas system is a modern electronic type that senses a power down in it’s microprocessor based furnace control system and immediately turns on the evaporative fan on a power up to dissipate any excess heat that might have built up inside the furnace heat exchanger if the power outage was of a momentary or short duration cycle.

My second item or comment was as Diceman posted:

“Blowing a 70 amp fuse is another matter.”

Quite frankly your posted comment surprised me:

“…the fuse problem will resurface and hopefully we will have time and not be under the gun Next time.”

I have to tell you friend, I’m sure glad your not my heart doctor, “I know your heart stopped, but I got it going for you, and hopefully we will be there next time, if we have the time, to get you going again. Sorry, but that type of service doesn’t sound like the service I would want from anyone who services me, or my equipment. The time to find the problem with the fuse is now, not later, even with 200 people downstairs, most of your diagnostic testing of the equipment will be with the system on, at best, your should have ask the Client when the people will be done so you could return and COMPLETE your diagnostic checkout of the equipment.

Third and lastly, your posted “2many 2 list” answer under “Credentials” in your bio sounds far fetch at best. Let me help you, just answer the following:

How many years of formal education (college or trade school)
NATE certification
RSES certification
State contractor’s license
Any national recognized HVAC/R testing organizations (ACCA, ASHREA, ARI, ect)

Come on, brag about yourself so we here at this forum know where you are coming from.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[epacertified]

As posted in my first post.
I dont do commercial rtu,s but am willing to learn!
Secondley I was riding shotgun and was with a more seasoned Hvac tech who happens to have senority over ME!
Thirdley I was working a 11:00pm to 7:00am shift and was on my way out when this accured.
Meaning the next shift was coming in to follow up on the last shifts log.
I love to post on this site but more times than not find Critisisum before information is mostely given.
I simply asked what the sequence of operation was to further my own knowledge.
those of you who wish can take your secrets to your grave
enough said

[epacertified]

Dear Epacertified,



“…What is a expected sequence of operation when dealing with rooftops???”

With the thermostat set for heat or automatic system operation, the fan switch set to the auto position, and a call of heat, the sequence is as follows:

1. Inducer fan motor starts
2. Inducer proving switch proves inducer fan operation.
3. The hot surface igniter is turned on (or the spark igniter is turned on).
4. The pilot solenoid valve on the main gas valve is turned on.
5. If the hot surface or spark igniter lights the pilot light, then the main gas valve is turned on.
6. After a time, or temperature delay (depending on the make, model, and type of gas system) the evaporative fan motor is started.


John J. Dalton CM
John I appreciate your listed sequence .
What is the time usually between steps?
thanks
P.s I changed my bio you win you have more badges and stuff

[The Doctor]

some rooftops will respond to the t'stat, which may restore within seconds of the power issue being resolved. other t'stats may hold you off for up to a set amount, usually 2-5 minutes.

then maybe the microprocessor is the delay. rtus of the 25-40 ton variety may make you wait 5 minutes, and larger rtus almost certainly have delays of that length.
by the sounds of the fuse size, a 5-minute delay is reasonable, and a coffee is always a good choice.

the criticism of your choice to not pursue the fuse blowing is explainable, though not needed.

the folks whose job is to find any and all problems, usually because the customer doesn't call until a problem arises, and you don't have the luxury of just hanging about the place....
they want to check it out so the customer is happy and licking them and paying(especially this one) for their services.

the other side of service is the customers who only pay to look at say
"no heat" only. do not deviate, do not smell the roses, do not prowl about the roof.
the cost of looking at the big picture is not factored into their request for service.
I run into that a lot on the light commercial we do for national acct. type stores.

then again, some stores like when you take a walk about the roof, or look real closely at all aspects of the RTU in question.

so it's natural for them to jump at the question.

anyhow, I hope the rtu delay info is helpful, and you enjoy your coffee.
BTW, was it starbucks (fourbucks?)?:D

[Diceman]

As posted in my first post.
I dont do commercial rtu,s but am willing to learn!
Secondley I was riding shotgun and was with a more seasoned Hvac tech who happens to have senority over ME!
Thirdley I was working a 11:00pm to 7:00am shift and was on my way out when this accured.
Meaning the next shift was coming in to follow up on the last shifts log.
I love to post on this site but more times than not find Critisisum before information is mostely given.
I simply asked what the sequence of operation was to further my own knowledge.
those of you who wish can take your secrets to your grave
enough said
You said you are willing to learn.......so.
You need a nap junior.:D

[Airmechanical]

I dont do commercial rtu,s but am willing to learn!Secondley I was riding shotgun and was with a more seasoned Hvac tech who happens to have senority over ME!Thirdley I was working a 11:00pm to 7:00am shift and was on my way out when this accured.I love to post on this site but more times than not find Critisisum before information is mostely given.I simply asked what the sequence of operation was to further my own knowledge.



you have over 1100 posts here you know how it goes;

1. if you want to learn, deal with the critisizing

2. supervisors will wait around while you find the problem not just the symptom because they know its the right thing to do

3. just because your shift is ending does not mean you cant figure out the problem this is how you learn

4. the 70 amp fuse was blown you should have atleast tightened all connections and checked all compressors and motors to ground

5. further your knowledge by being thankful for the information techs are willing to give you

6. in the old days, noone used to give away trade secrets, we are all lucky to have so much info available



.

[refrtech]

some rooftops will respond to the t'stat, which may restore within seconds of the power issue being resolved. other t'stats may hold you off for up to a set amount, usually 2-5 minutes.

then maybe the microprocessor is the delay. rtus of the 25-40 ton variety may make you wait 5 minutes, and larger rtus almost certainly have delays of that length.
by the sounds of the fuse size, a 5-minute delay is reasonable, and a coffee is always a good choice.

the criticism of your choice to not pursue the fuse blowing is explainable, though not needed.

the folks whose job is to find any and all problems, usually because the customer doesn't call until a problem arises, and you don't have the luxury of just hanging about the place....
they want to check it out so the customer is happy and licking them and paying(especially this one) for their services.

the other side of service is the customers who only pay to look at say
"no heat" only. do not deviate, do not smell the roses, do not prowl about the roof.
the cost of looking at the big picture is not factored into their request for service.
I run into that a lot on the light commercial we do for national acct. type stores.

then again, some stores like when you take a walk about the roof, or look real closely at all aspects of the RTU in question.

so it's natural for them to jump at the question.

anyhow, I hope the rtu delay info is helpful, and you enjoy your coffee.
BTW, was it starbucks (fourbucks?)?:D
Although it is a good response , it is no exuse !! That is a liabality just waiting to happen . IMO , if I were the owner of a company , good thing I am not , and one of my service technicians told me he found a 70 amp fuse blown and did not find out why , he and I are going to have a nice little discussion on what it means to be a good technician and what it means to be a hack who does just enough to get by and get the job 1/2 a$$ done . And by saying it was the end of your shift makes it that much worse . So what it was the end of your shift , spend the extra 5-10 minutes and find out what blew that fuse . Hell , no matter what the cause of it was , it will be a future job and $$ in yours and your boss's pocket !!!

Again just my opinion :)

[john dalton]

Dear Epacertified,

Some answers and comments concerning your previous posts:

“John I appreciate your listed sequence. What is the time usually between steps?...”

Time between thermostat calling and Step #1: Immediately
Time between Step #1 and Step #2: Usually between 2 to 5 seconds
Time between Step #2 and Step #3: Immediately
Time between Step #3 and Step #4: Spark Igniter type: Immediately
Hot surface igniter: Between immediately and 8 seconds
Time between Step #4 and Step #5: 2 to 4 seconds
Time between Step #5 and Step #6: 30 to 90 seconds, usually between 30 and 45 seconds


“…P.s I changed my bio you win you have more badges and stuff”

Look friend, and I call you friend because you are a fellow colleague, we “ALL” win here at this forum. None of us here, no matter how much education and/or field experience have more knowledge of our trade than the SUM of all of us. One of the main reasons this forum was created was to spread the education, knowledge, and field experience of the participates of this forum through these threads.

As for the credentials I have, like you my friend, I have more than some, and less than some, therefore, like you………we’re not the best, nor the worst, just somewhere in between. Posting a complete bio, including your credentials, help some of your fellow colleagues here at this forum understand where you are coming from. My suggestion of posting your credentials was not meant to alienate you, but in fact engage you with your fellow colleagues at this thread, as well as this forum friend. If you took it any other way, and apparently you did, I apologize my friend, and extend a warm handshake to make amends.

Most Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[john dalton]

Dear Epacertified,

Some additional answers and comments concerning your previous posts:

“…I dont do commercial rtu,s but am willing to learn!...”

If the above is true, then pretend you are in a large lecture hall with 300 fellow colleagues and are listening to a professor discuss the basic sequential operation of a gas/electric package unit in it’s heating cycle, and the ramifications of a “limited” diagnostic check of a potentially dangerous component failure. Would you stand up in front of your fellow colleagues and argue with the professor and try to justify not completing a though diagnostic check of the entire system, or would you just listen to his experience, his knowledge, his wisdom, and then try to glean a bit of what he was discussing for your own diagnostic arsenal. Just a thought friend.


”…Secondley I was riding shotgun and was with a more seasoned Hvac tech who happens to have senority over ME!...”

Your post did not indicate you were assisting a senior service technician, my apologies for that, but……senior service technician or not, when he told you the diagnostic check was complete for the shift, you should have been all over him about not completing the service call you were BOTH sent out to investigate….face it, you repaired the symptom (the fuse replacement), you DID NOT address the root cause of the fuse failure, in other words I’m sorry to say, you DID NOT act like service technicians and diagnose the service problem, you became a parts changer and replaced the failed part only. I’m not saying you’re a bad service technician, lets face it, we ALL have taken short cuts in our careers and did things we would rather not have anyone else know, but….after all is said and done…a bad service call is a bad service call…period!


“…Thirdley I was working a 11:00pm to 7:00am shift and was on my way out when this accured.
Meaning the next shift was coming in to follow up on the last shifts log…”

If you mean the next shift was going back to the same jobsite you and your friend was just at and conduct a complete diagnostic check of the same unit you were just on, then we hope they will find, and more importantly correct, the root cause of the fuse failure, then I would only say this: As a “seasoned” service technician I would consider that a slap on my face that someone was having to follow me up on a job to complete my work!


”…I love to post on this site but more times than not find Critisisum before information is mostely given…”

In our trade, at this forum, the two go hand in hand my friend….and I mean that in all sincerity and respect friend.


“…I simply asked what the sequence of operation was to further my own knowledge…”

Begging to differ with you, you posted a summary of an incomplete diagnostic check that involved a primary safety device that has the potential to damage not only the unit itself, but the structure it is sitting on……let alone the 200 people you posted was under (downstairs) the unit enjoying breakfast.


”…those of you who wish can take your secrets to your grave…”

Contrary to the above statement, not only did we answer your original posted question, but we in fact continued sharing “our secrets” of experience and knowledge in letting you know the potential harm that an incomplete diagnostic check could have on this particular situation friend.
Your anger seems to stem from our sharing of our experience, rather than the silence you accuse us of.

Again, as in my previous post friend, and I call you friend as a fellow colleague, forgive us if our criticism seems harsh, but we all work on HVAC/R units that have the potential to damage not only themselves, but us, as well as the structure, and the people we are trying to help as well, so please take these comments in the spirit they were intended to convey, and that is:

Let’s do our jobs with the utmost completeness and integrity our profession demands, and if that is not possible, let’s have everyone hear our screams concerning the potential problems that may develop because someone is hampering us from doing our jobs.


”…enough said…”

That my friend, we can both agree upon.

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[refrtech]

WOW how long did that take you John ? Good post .

[Diceman]

Now you know why the thread, "cooling a small server room" went 7 million pages..:D

[john dalton]

Dear Diceman,

Based on the authorship of the “9mm thread” I would think your last comment could be construed as “The pot calling the kettle black”…..wouldn’t you’d think?

Diceman, where did your $1.59 per post price tag go to??????????

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

PS: Regarding your posted comment:

“You said you are willing to learn.......so.
You need a nap junior.”

Was short, sweet, and to the point my friend.

[john dalton]

Dear Diceman,

I just had an idea. If I would only break my posted comments into individual paragraphs and post each one separately, then maybe I could get into the five digit posts like you my friend…….on second though that wouldn’t be such a good idea, afterall………everyone knows there’s only one Diceman here at this forum………..

Have a great night my friend.

MOST Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[The Doctor]

Although it is a good response , it is no exuse !! That is a liabality just waiting to happen . IMO , if I were the owner of a company , good thing I am not , and one of my service technicians told me he found a 70 amp fuse blown and did not find out why , he and I are going to have a nice little discussion on what it means to be a good technician and what it means to be a hack who does just enough to get by and get the job 1/2 a$$ done . And by saying it was the end of your shift makes it that much worse . So what it was the end of your shift , spend the extra 5-10 minutes and find out what blew that fuse . Hell , no matter what the cause of it was , it will be a future job and $$ in yours and your boss's pocket !!!

Again just my opinion :)

agreed, it is no excuse. I'd want to find out why. ohming out compressors generally doesn't take longer than is reasonable, and I'd want to know what he was facing.

I just wanted him to be able to put into perspective the variety of opinions he was getting.
Hey man, it was beerthirty.

[Diceman]

Dear Diceman,

I just had an idea. If I would only break my posted comments into individual paragraphs and post each one separately, then maybe I could get into the five digit posts like you my friend…….on second though that wouldn’t be such a good idea, afterall………everyone knows there’s only one Diceman here at this forum………..

Have a great night my friend.

MOST Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM
See..............you do have a sense of humor after all........:D :D

[refrtech]

I got to thinking about this and realized where you are @ epa . It is cold in NJ right now and obviously it is heating season . You are working @ a restaraunt of some sort , that requires heat NOT COOLING this time of year . So thinking about that I would bet that a compressor did not try to come on and blow that 70 AMP fuse . Chances are that it is something else THAT IS LIVE as we speak . Just a thought !

[Diceman]

I got to thinking about this and realized where you are @ epa . It is cold in NJ right now and obviously it is heating season . You are working @ a restaraunt of some sort , that requires heat NOT COOLING this time of year . So thinking about that I would bet that a compressor did not try to come on and blow that 70 AMP fuse . Chances are that it is something else THAT IS LIVE as we speak . Just a thought !
Crowded restaurants get hot in winter.

[jayguy]

I got to thinking about this and realized where you are @ epa . It is cold in NJ right now and obviously it is heating season . You are working @ a restaraunt of some sort , that requires heat NOT COOLING this time of year . So thinking about that I would bet that a compressor did not try to come on and blow that 70 AMP fuse . Chances are that it is something else THAT IS LIVE as we speak . Just a thought !

if the unit did try to start (for whatever reason) the compressor, maybe no crankcase heater or not working, it may have slugged itself, broke a crank trying to pump liquid stored on top of the head, etc. why did it try it...that's a different troublshooting call. Just a thought!:D

[epacertified]

I still am Employed.!
The Unit is Still running!(although its being watched )
The Boss is still happy!
Oh sorry to disappoint all you Monday Morning Quarterbacks.
Maybe next time I cut the Patient Open Just for the heck of it.
That seems like the right thing to do.

[Diceman]

As long as your boss is happy Doc........:D

[whec720]

I still am Employed.!
The Unit is Still running!(although its being watched )
The Boss is still happy!
Oh sorry to disappoint all you Monday Morning Quarterbacks.
Maybe next time I cut the Patient Open Just for the heck of it.
That seems like the right thing to do.

Hmmm, maybe a namechange to epacertifiable:D :D :D .

[refrtech]

I still am Employed.!
The Unit is Still running!(although its being watched )
The Boss is still happy!
Oh sorry to disappoint all you Monday Morning Quarterbacks.
Maybe next time I cut the Patient Open Just for the heck of it.
That seems like the right thing to do.

Let me guess , you are an "in house" guy right ?? A good service technician , and I do mean technician , would have fixed it , PERIOD !! The reason I know that you are an in house guy is because you have time to watch it and wait for it to break again without any repricutions. If your boss was getting paid for your service calls , it would be a call back on you when you do have to go back out for the fuse problem . Now you would be costing your boss $$ because you did not take the extra 10 minutes to find out what blew that fuse the first time you were on the job site . Now he has to pay you travel time to and from the job , pay you for your time there to diagnose the original problem . Now once you do find out the root cause your boss is going to have a hard sell to the customer for any parts needed . The first thought in the customers head will be " Well your "technician" was just out here , why wasn't it fixed then if you already knew about the problem ? "

You have been given alot of good advice on this thread from many HVAC technicians that have forgotten more than you or I will ever know !! Take the constructive critissim (sp?) in stride and learn from it . Stop being so defensive and learn from your mistakes .

[john dalton]

Dear Epacertified,

Regarding your posted comments:

“I still am Employed.!...”

If that’s the yardstick you use to judge the quality of your service calls, then I would highly recommend you either find a better yardstick, or you stop advertising the existence of that one.


”…The Unit is Still running!(although its being watched )…”

It’s being watched………would a more accurate statement be the Client will call us if (when) the unit goes down the next time?


“…The Boss is still happy!...”

I’m a boss, please tell me……EXACTLY what is your boss happy about?????????


“…Oh sorry to disappoint all you Monday Morning Quarterbacks…”

A “Monday Morning Quarterback” is a non-professional, with infinitely less experience, and knowledge, of the “game” for which the quarterback plays. That statement would make you the quarterback, and me the Monday Morning Quarterback. Let’s analyze exactly how accurate your statement really is:

Your posted comment from your original post: “I dont do many rtu,s…” hummmm…that’s not a lot of experience, and/or knowledge.

Your posted comment from your 5th post on page 1 of this thread: “P.s I changed my bio you win you have more badges and stuff” I take that to mean you concede that I have more field experience, and knowledge than you.

Based on your two previous statements, your above statement about “all of you” being Monday morning quarterbacks is neither accurate, or called for, under the above circumstances.


“…Maybe next time I cut the Patient Open Just for the heck of it…”

“just for the heck of it”…..no for the “integrity” and the “completeness” of the service call you needed to perform additional diagnostic checks on the unit in order to leave it with any assurance that additional fuse failure, or worse, wouldn’t occur.


”…That seems like the right thing to do.”

The right thing to do would be to close your “not so experienced mouth”, open your “not so experienced ears”, listen to the “EXPERTS” in this field with not years, but decades of field experience, and maybe, just maybe you would learn something new.


Point blank I ask you my friend, with no anger in my voice, no malice in my heart, and with the most respect a fellow colleague can show toward another:

You admit you don’t do many roof top units, I on the other hand have done thousands of RTU’s, have spent over three decades in the field engineering them, installing them, P/Ming them, servicing them, replacing them, have worked on heat pumps, straight cooling units, heating only units, electric/electric units, and combination gas/electric packaged units ranging in size from fractional tonnage to over 200 tons, have generated General and NATE certified courses, tests, have taught everything about them for the last twenty years to fellow service technicians, and you ask my (our) opinion as to your diagnostic service call , and you are debating us, and defending yourself, here on this thread.

All I have to say is I (we) are basing our comments and opinions on the above information, knowledge, experience, and wisdom,……what are you basing your comments on??????

We all screw up in the field from time to time, and when someone calls us on it, especially someone with a ton more experience, them maybe, just maybe, we should stop and listen to what they are saying my friend.

Two things come to mind at this time, I’ll close with them because I think they are extremely relevant at this point:

The character of a man is not measured in whether he makes mistakes, the character of a man is what he does when someone points out his mistakes.

I’m not surprised when I make mistakes in the field, I’m amazed and mystified, I don’t make more of them.

From a concerned fellow colleague my friend……….

Respectfully Submitted,
John J. Dalton CM

[epacertified]

Ok I,ll shut up and Listen now.


Friend?
No. JOHN
I know all my Friends.
You I never met.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[refrtech]

Ok I,ll shut up and Listen now.


Friend?
No. JOHN
I know all my Friends.
You I never met.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Great attitude I must say !! :rolleyes:

[whec720]

Ok I,ll shut up and Listen now.


Friend?
No. JOHN
I know all my Friends.
You I never met.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I like the shut up part.:D

[Diceman]

I do think you are all being a little hard on junior.:eek:
He was only helping a more experienced tech.