Salesman vs. installer - Help me find a solution

[markf57]

In reading this forum, the following is clear to me:

1) It is so much more important to get a well designed and sized system that is tailored to my needs than which brand I choose.

2) It is so much more important go have a system installed properly that which brand I choose.

The basic response from the pros on this board is to go with a good contractor. I think that is valid.

And that is my problem. In my neck of the woods, when I call a company for a quote, I get a salesman that comes to my house and pitches a system. I haven't had one yet even hint about Model J or D. Does a bad salesman equate to a bad installer? Does a good salesman equate to a good installer? I don't think you can make that connection. Even if I find a guy I like and my neighbor had an install done by that company, the installer I get might have been hired this week.

So, I'm looking for help on how to cut through the system to insure that I will have a chance of getting a good install.

Any help would be appreciated.

[paul42]

Better Business Bureau
How long they have been in business
Maybe - http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/
Ask for an extended warranty?

find out if the salesman knows what a Manual J or D is.

then it is all down to gut instinct and luck.

[hetrola]

Ask friends/neighbors for their recommendations for your area. In our company the service/installer can also sell furnaces. Ask the company to send out the actuall installer, or find one that will.

[hankmcneil]

The salesman may have been hired this week too! Yes, IMO if they did not do a heat loss (without you asking or mentioning it), that is a sign of the quality of company you are dealing with. You're not gonna change them, just move on.

[mr horsepower]

The salesman may have been hired this week too! Yes, IMO if they did not do a heat loss (without you asking or mentioning it), that is a sign of the quality of company you are dealing with. You're not gonna change them, just move on.

so every quote on equipment, every time you've ever made an estimate for a customer, you've w/o fail done load calcs 1st? just for the estimate? and in the event you were to not stick with that routine, you feel it would be a direct reflection on the quality of your business or employer? i just can't imagine this practice in the real world. maybe it's just me? *note that i'm not saying to not properly size the equipment prior to purchasing it and installing it in the customers house.

[dash]

Markf57,

Try calling arond ,asking if the can and will do a Manual J,S, and D,and give you a proposal.

If they can but are reloctant to do the calcs before you hire them,ask if you sign on the dotted line,will they then do the calcs??

[comfortdoc]

so every quote on equipment, every time you've ever made an estimate for a customer, you've w/o fail done load calcs 1st? just for the estimate? and in the event you were to not stick with that routine, you feel it would be a direct reflection on the quality of your business or employer? i just can't imagine this practice in the real world. maybe it's just me? *note that i'm not saying to not properly size the equipment prior to purchasing it and installing it in the customers house.

For me the short answer is no Man J for every estimate, but it is discussed that it will be done before the equipment is installed.

The long answer to explain how it is possible in the real world. I do service and installations in NE Philadelphia. The majority of my work is rowhomes. There are many styles here but typically 500 to 1000 of the same shell per neighborhood. Differences are typically envelope improvements, ventilation improvements and orientation (N,S,E,W). As part of the initial consultation I decide if full Man J is needed before the quote. If I feel the customer is obviously price shopping I quote based on existing equipment with the understanding that full heat load calcs will be performed before the equipment is ordered and the price is a wordt case scenario estimate. If I already have Man J for that style home, I use what I have to give the customer a closer estimate, then adjust the calcualtions for the differences observed. I am one of the few that talk Man J and will provide it. I do not specify equipment size until I'm picking up the deposit check. Initial estimates include only design conditions (system will maintain 72° @ 10°) and I will not provide the Man J paperwork until the system is installed.