Paragon Defrost Timer Question

[whec720]

I have a small WIF (6 ft x 6 ft) that I have to install a new Paragon 632-20 defrost timer. This timer has a top and bottom dial. My question is what should I set the top dial points at?
"A" - Defrost Delay Evap. fan mtrs stop/heater pan on
"B" - Defrost Cycle Hot gas vlv open/Liq. line sol.vlv close
"C" - Fan Delay (water drain) Fan mtrs on/pan htr off

Directions on the timer:
Top dial: This dial controls the length of time top and bottom switch contacts reverse. Top switch period is equal to sum of settings "A", "B", and "C". The first operating period is period "A". This period is adjustable from 0-30 min. Bottom switch contacts reverse during this period.
Second operating period is "B". This period is adjustable from 3-45 min. Top switch contacts close and open during this period.
The third operating period is "C". This period is adjustable from 3-15 min. Bottom switch contacts reverse during this period.

What should each period be set at and why? This feezer is used in a commercial kitchen for a daycare. It uses R-404A and typical freezer temp. is about -10 degrees. I have to go back to the job tommorow. Any help would really be appreciated.
Thanks.

[hillbilly tech]

In situations thats new to me i try to look at the old set up and match it,what happen to the old timer?They hardly ever go bad,but do sometimes.I would set it up like the old one and be done with it,can't ya match the old one.

[icemeister]

That appears to be a pretty fancy timer for such a small WIF. I can't recall as I've ever even seen one like that.

Paragon 632-20 (http://www.icca.invensys.com/UNILINE/d/d23.pdf)

What clock are you replacing? That will help a lot in knowing how to help you with this.

[idontgetit]

I have a small WIF (6 ft x 6 ft) that I have to install a new Paragon 632-20 defrost timer. This timer has a top and bottom dial. My question is what should I set the top dial points at?
"A" - Defrost Delay Evap. fan mtrs stop/heater pan on
"B" - Defrost Cycle Hot gas vlv open/Liq. line sol.vlv close
"C" - Fan Delay (water drain) Fan mtrs on/pan htr off

.


A=== set for about five minutes to make sure you have water flow, might be as short as 3 minutes though.

B===depends upon the moisture level is is going to reach and how often your going to defrost it, around here about 20 minutes 4 or 6 times per day. If they are not going to get into the box a lot, you might get away with as few as 3 a day.

C=== is to allow drainage from the coil and pan, also allows coil to refreeze any moisture left on the coil so the fans do not blow it off and on to items stored. This can happen very quickly, 2 to five minutes expected. The main thing is to make it as short as possible because suction pressures are going to drop fast and you do not want to starve the compressor for refrigerant that helps to cool it so the shortest time. I would most likely time it off the suction line temp and when it hit about 0 I would figure 100% of the water on the coil was frozen solid and now safe to resume fans.

I have never seen one of these timers either, but it looks like all other paragon timers as far as the diagram goes, just kinda puny only rates at 20 amps.

With a more than normal rate of failure on the 40amp timers the last couple of years, I would be a bit more concerned about durability of such a low rates timer.

I would have most likely thrown an 8145 on it and been done with it instead of this independant timed event toy, it does not seem practical to have all these "features" when you are playing with such a tiny box.

[MikeySq]

Hey Ice good goin with the link, i saw the model number that whec posted and i just figured it was the "usual (http://www.icca.invensys.com/UNILINE/d/d16.pdf)" one hahah but I googled the number and saw a pic of one on amazon and I said to myself WTF is that!! haha I havn't seen one like it before either! maybe I should have looked at the second reply and see the link you posted, i guess i wasted another 3 minutes of my life!! haha

Like the 2 previous guys mentioned just look at the old clock and see where it was set.

as for knowing set points there are factors to consider.
Is the box in good condition? IE. any air leaks or bad insulation?
Are they in an out of the box much?

these are a couple thaings that could help ya figure out where ya should go with your settings

these IMO would be a better clock choice:
This is 'old faithful' works well and has been around for years (http://www.icca.invensys.com/UNILINE/d/d16.pdf)

http://www.icca.invensys.com/paragon/images/sel_8025.jpg

can't find the pdf for the other one but it's the same as the, 8141, except it's electronic, the advantage that the electronic one has is that it can sense a shorted defrost termination stat , and switch from time/temp to time/time. as where the old skool won would just skip defrost if 'X' was allways energized, and it fits in the same box as the 8141,, good to have on the van too because it's dual voltage works with 120V and 240V

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a236/Mikey78/Work%20Crap/P2140496.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a236/Mikey78/Work%20Crap/P1010345.jpg

both of those Freezers are set up for defrost cycle (3 times) every 8 hours, and have a 60 minute defrost time. On both of those units they have new evaps so Defrost termination is working so they come out of defrost on thier own before the 60 min is up. one freezer is the same size as the one you are working on and the other is slightly larger.

[MikeySq]

With a more than normal rate of failure on the 40amp timers the last couple of years, I would be a bit more concerned about durability of such a low rates timer.

out of curisoity, on the failure rate of the timers you are having problems with, are the contacts giving you grief?? In my experience it's usually the timer motor or the termination coil that gives up the ghost.

whenever possible I try to run the LL solenoid on the timer, just to keep the compressor load off the timer contacts, leave that to the pressure control haha:p

[the mojo]

out of curisoity, on the failure rate of the timers you are having problems with, are the contacts giving you grief?? In my experience it's usually the timer motor or the termination coil that gives up the ghost.

whenever possible I try to run the LL solenoid on the timer, just to keep the compressor load off the timer contacts, leave that to the pressure control haha:p

High failure rate of timer motors, OEM and supply house due to Made in Mexico motors. Check out the DTMV40, Moisture proof electronic. www.grasslin.com Those crazy Germans.:cool:

[MikeySq]

seen one of those on a small reach in freezer one time, and yes the freezer was from Germany.

actually it was a cool little bugger it was made for marine use on boats and it had a tiny little open drive compressor, it was neat to see a unit like that which was New, I've seen pics and a few old, old ,old small open drives but not a new one!

[whec720]

Thanks for all the great replies!:)
The original timer was a 631-3. The 632-20 is its cross referenced replacement. For reasons of wiring and installation simplicity, I went with it.
Besides, the old one lasted for 40 years.
I'm mostly an ac guy but when called upon, do refrigeration work. The settings on this timer just seemed odd to me. "A" and "C" were set at 0 min. "B", the defrost, was set at 8 minutes. I figured I'd ask some seasoned pros for advice. Thank you again.
The reason I have to replace the old one is that once it goes into the defrost cycle, it won't come out of it. You have to manually turn the top dial in the arrowed direction till you hear the contacts click and then it resumes the normal refrigeration clycle.
I'll be back on that job today and let you know how it makes out.

[icemeister]

I'll guarantee the new one won't last that long (being made in Mexico).;)

With an original defrost time duration of only 8 minutes, this must be a hot gas defrost system. The "A"and "C" settings are to allow time for pumpdown before defrost initiation and drip time after termination. They were set at zero probably because this little system the box temperature suffered with any built-in delays adding 5-6 minutes to the defrost period.

[idontgetit]

out of curisoity, on the failure rate of the timers you are having problems with, are the contacts giving you grief?? In my experience it's usually the timer motor or the termination coil that gives up the ghost.

whenever possible I try to run the LL solenoid on the timer, just to keep the compressor load off the timer contacts, leave that to the pressure control haha:p

It was a mix of both, had a few motors, a few gear problems but also had about the same number of contacts go bat too, well not the contacts actually, the plastic that they are mounted into.

The compressor terminal would overheat and the plastic would melt allowing the contacts to no longer be lined up. It happened more than 3 or 4 times and it also happened on low amperage units protected by 20a breakers. The 8145-00EX yeah I know ain't supposed to be getting the "ex's" here but we get em all the time. Had one unit that got 4 bad ones on it installed by 3 different guys, it was a delfield 6176 freezer with a k-body on it.

I have talked with the rep about the timers because it is more than a little frustrating when you replace one that is 10 years old and it last 3 months etc.

No matter how loud somone wants to preach that they are good timers, they most certianly WERE and I have many units with the really old versions that are 15+ years old, but the new ones simply are not the same product at all.

[whec720]

I installed it friday night and it seemed to work alright. I'm checking this WIF Wedsday to see how things are going. This is a hot gas defrost system. I set it at 20 minutes. As mentioned above, this may have been too long. We'll see how it goes.
This timer is made in Mexico. I just put in a digital Carrier t-stat on another job the other day. It was made in China.:( We don't make ANYTHING anymore. What are we to do?:mad: :mad: I honestly do not see this country making another twenty years at the rate things are going (just MHO).