service line on an ice makers compressor

[raider94]

We have several ice makers at where I work. There are serivice lines on the compressors. My boss said to put the blue hose from the manifold guage on the service line to check for pressure, since the service line is for the discharge side of the system. He said if there was refridgerant in the system, we should of got a pressure reading on the suction guage. His diagnosis was that the system had a leak in it because the reading was low. I latter went back and felt the line where it entered the evaporator and it was very cold. I dont feel his diagnosis was correct. What is the correct way to read and hook up the guages in a situation like this? He only installed a piercing valve on the service tube from the compressor. Thank you.

[frigetater]

tried to respond in a civilized manner.....couldn't, so I will keep my opinion to myself concerning this thread

[Dad]

Oh my... Yep, just what do you say to this?

How about this? Just overlook this guys, I am going to play nice just this once. :D

Ask your boss to send you to some of the factory schools for ice makers. Most are free and those that are not are only 50 bucks or less.

You may be confused with the term 'discharge'. Professionals will know that the discharge line is the hot gas line from the compressor to the condenser. That would be your high side and the "red" hose.

The line you are touching and is cold is the low side or "blue" hose.

If I may suggest to you and your boss. Leave those suckers alone unless you know what you are doing or be prepared to pay double to the trained service guy that has to follow you guys hacking around in there.

Btw, never put hoses on a machine unless you are 100% positive it is a refrigeration problem. Every time you put on gages you will loose a bit of the factory critical charge and, yes, then it will be a problem.

[rayr]

Oh my... Yep, just what do you say to this?

How about this? Just overlook this guys, I am going to play nice just this once. :D

.

Such diplomacy, I AM IMPRESSD!!!

[Dad]

Such diplomacy, I AM IMPRESSD!!!

Did you also notice how I refrained from discussing the piercing valve on the discharge line?

Now, that was impressive.

[icemeister]

It takes a lot of class and a touch of restraint to play the role of the Dutch Uncle as well as that.

Good job, Dave.

[raider94]

I work for the gov. in a contract position. I wont elaborate on the ridiculous things I put up with, but we arent allowed to attend schools, at the companies expense. THats why I came here to ask a question. You didnt give me alot to go with, most of that I already knew. I know you probally put up with folks touching stuff that arent supposed to, but we are the first line in the maintenance chain here, so we do what we can before it gets sent to another contractor.
So whats wrong with putting the piercing valve on the service line of the compressor? I know that your supposed to put one piercing valve on the high side and one on the low and then look at a chart, add + 30F for the compressor then read over to see what pressure for that refridgerant. He didnt do that, he just put the blue hose on the service line and suggested that reading. He is well knowledged in many areas, so I didnt know, and Im new to HVAC.

[markettech]

Raider:

I'm afraid you will be hard pressed to find someone willing to spoon feed you information on this.

Like Lusker said, hooking up a set of gauges should be the last thing you do and only after ruling out ANY other problem.

Sounds as if you need to download a manual, spend some time reading/studying, or just call in a guy that knows how to fix the thing.

..................You work for the government - shouldn't be a problem spending money on a refrigeration contractor:D

[the mojo]

Ok, Sorry for the pickle that you're in right now. Perhaps if you came back and posted some of the units M# & S/N's we can get you some link info that you can read up on after hours. There is alot to be observed on a I/M way before putting on a set of guages. And if you had to check,only use a single compound guage for the B.P. and head. Never use a manifold set on a critical charge system. Come back here and post when you've got the info.

[Dad]

OK.. here we go.

I don't think there is a soul that posts on this particular forum area that wouldn't help you but you need to feed us more information than "I have a bunch of ice makers" and "My boss told me". From your original post it sounds like you don't even know how to use a set of gages, you must admit.

Here's what you do. Post here the type of ice maker, the model and serial numbers. No one is going to trace you down by the serial numbers, we need that due to the model changes. Then tell us what you see is NOT working on this unit. We will ask you some questions and you will need to know how to answer them.

The major problem I see here is that you may not know how to answer such questions without some training and you will not get that here simply on this thread. A download manual will help you understand the machines operations, pressures, cycle times and so on.

As far as a piercing valve. They are used only as a temporary measure to removed refrigerant from a system before you sweat in a permanent valve. Piercing valves leak, they leak more so on hot lines under pressure. They seal by using rubber to hold sometimes over 300 lbs of pressure and hot oil. So if you boss says this is a leaker it is probably the piercing valves.

So start by doing this... get us those numbers and tell us what is going on so we can set up a base line for service. If need be we can find you the manual and give you a link to download it.

Also, don't let 50 bucks get in the way of education. Most of the ice maker classes are free. Now, if you aren't in the states and you work for the government, that would be a different story especially if you're eating sand.

[Dad]

There ya go again Mojo... need extra blankets up there??

:)

[the mojo]

The dam diesel is warming up and the first job is..... A Kolpak W/I freezer roof remoted. Send me up a cup of 70*F air.;)

[Dad]

The dam diesel is warming up and the first job is..... A Kolpak W/I freezer roof remoted. Send me up a cup of 70*F air.;)

If I had one I would be stingie with it.. it was 20* this morning in the deep south. We are going to have a heat wave today though. It may get all the way up to 50* if we hold our mouth right.

[k-fridge]

If I had one I would be stingie with it.. it was 20* this morning in the deep south. We are going to have a heat wave today though. It may get all the way up to 50* if we hold our mouth right.
I think set up a lounge chair in the parking lot and get a tan.

[k-fridge]

Raider,

Don't think we're just trying to be a-holes. most of us truly appreciate a young guy wanting to learn the business. But by the wording of your posts it's quite obvious that you're still at square one. At your level of experience, you asking us to talk you through this is akin to me asking a doctor to talk me through open heart surgery just because I go out and buy a scalpel. You can do some serious damage to the equipment or get yourself or someone else hurt.

Don't get discouraged, but crawl before you walk. Get you some training, go to every class you can find, listen and ask questions. Then proceed only when you are ready. BTW, commercial ice machines are not the best place to start, these things can be a challenge even for the really old guys like Lusker. :D

[frigetater]

yea, I guess I was a little blunt also...was in a bad mood...sorry man...anyway like the guys told you....give up some information...I also used to work for "Uncle"...

[HVAC Teacher]

Shouldn't we mention that without being certified to handle refrigerants he could get in very big trouble????

[Dad]

He won't as long as he is working for a boss that has his EPA certs and... he is really overseeing his work.

But in his defense. He works for the gov and that would be a job qualification, right?

[rayr]

The dam diesel is warming up and the first job is..... A Kolpak W/I freezer roof remoted. Send me up a cup of 70*F air.;)

2 deg. yesterday morning. 6 am first service call, Bally W/I freezer 30 deg. LOL. Single digits sure will bring out undercharged systems that have head masters.

[raider94]

Ok here is the info I got:

MFG Hoshizaki
DOM 07-80
MODEL IM 80DJ
S/N A01664 or AOI 664
100V 50/60HZ
R 12/530 g

Thanks for any help

[raider94]

Ok here is the info I got:

MFG Hoshizaki
DOM 07-80
MODEL IM 80DJ
S/N A01664 or AOI 664
100V 50/60HZ
R 12/530 g

Thanks for any help

[the mojo]

A 1980 R-12 :( Well just sit down and sign up and read. www.hoshizakiamerica.com Me thinks sammy should spend some of our $$$.

[Dad]

Holy Cobwebs Batman !

First...




Recover all of that R-12 and get rid of it, Then fill that system with Geritol !

[markettech]

Holy Cobwebs Batman !

First...




Recover all of that R-12 and get rid of it, Then fill that system with Geritol !


LMAO.......good one - and so early in the day:D

[craig1]

at 27 years old, that mahine owes you nothing. according to another thread, Hoshizaki says their machines are designed to last 7 years (most last longer). at 27 years, that machine is at almost 4 times it expected life. time to send it off to the big scrap heap in the sky.

[cracker]

The dam diesel is warming up and the first job is..... A Kolpak W/I freezer roof remoted. Send me up a cup of 70*F air.;)

Do you want that with cream and sugar??
Sorry about that, I give you guys a lot of guts to work In that Sh#t, We are poor down here ,...But warmhttp://bestsmileys.com/signs1/21.gif

[the mojo]

Do you want that with cream and sugar??
Sorry about that, I give you guys a lot of guts to work In that Sh#t, We are poor down here ,...But warmhttp://bestsmileys.com/signs1/21.gif

Funny stuff cracker:D But as for the beer...www.labattblue.com A truly fine pilsener.Ahh that was good.

[raider94]

I could of googled that myself. And then you give me a dead link. Seems everytime I come here I get a bunch of losers with low self esteem preaching a whole lot about nothing. If you were all that, youd be engineers now wouldnt you? And for the factory schools, most folks overseas I know dont attend, they figure it out for themselves. Did anyone here give me anything I could use? A link to the mfg. site? Dang, thats really helpful there dude! Last time I come to this site asking for anything, so far thats strike 2.

[the mojo]

I could of googled that myself. And then you give me a dead link. Seems everytime I come here I get a bunch of losers with low self esteem preaching a whole lot about nothing. If you were all that, youd be engineers now wouldnt you? And for the factory schools, most folks overseas I know dont attend, they figure it out for themselves. Did anyone here give me anything I could use? A link to the mfg. site? Dang, thats really helpful there dude! Last time I come to this site asking for anything, so far thats strike 2.

:mad: You come to this site seaking info I give you Hoshizaki's web site w/ a ton of info and you say that. Dumb just plain dumb. I tell you what slick be like the folks overseas and figure it out for yourself just like 99.999999% of the people here do everyday. Its called work.:mad:

[MikeySq]

Funny stuff cracker:D But as for the beer...www.labattblue.com A truly fine pilsener.Ahh that was good.

there ya go a nice Canadian beer eh?, but i'll admit it I'm a Molson fella myself haha:p

Raider, man not the right attitude man, i feel what you're trying to do, but I'm sure this place is probably not the place for ground level support for someone who isn't really "in" the trade, I know your position and I have to deal with the same sort of situation you're in, I dio service work for a government institution which has its's own maintenance dept and they get all problems to dispatched to them first, they usually tinker with it a bit and ocasionally repair a fan motor or something lik that or just tinker with a piece of equipment and get no where with it then i get called in. I have to admit sometimes they would have been better off if they called in the first place but i guess they do what they do and there's nothing I can do about that, but it's true that sometimes it makes my job a little tougher sometimes for sure.

I like your initiative and I myself am the type person who willl do whatever I can when it comes to work, weather it's something around the house or my car or bike or something, and if I'm in an area that i don't have 'expertise' in i seek advise, but I don't always get good responses, that's fine, i just look harder and or elsewhere for that info, but for getting mad at people for giving me a hard time for seeking info on something where i'm not formally trained, I don't take it personally, i just don't ask them again,

Yes you were given a bit of a hard time but I also think you were given some help, and to go and say, "I could have googled that myself" is not going to win you any friends on here(or anywhere) If you could have done it why didn't you?? you maybe could have answered a question.

I use the hoshi site and have gone to tech factory classes that are offered and that's a good thing, saying people overseas don't do that they figure stuff on thier own, what does that make them better? Of course we all have to figure stuff out on our own all the time but if someone else has figured out something out before and makes that information available i dunno call me crazy but I see that as a good thing,

I don't have an ego on anything and will ask a question on whatever I don't know, ofcourse i figure stuff out but questions don't hurt either;)

-Mike

[icemeister]

It's unfortunate that you got off on the wrong foot seeking help here on this forum. We have some of the best in the business participating in these discussions who are ready and willing to assist you if you work with us. Keep an open mind (and a thick skin) and you will get the help you need.

I have search the Hoshizaki site's listings for a manual for your IM-Series machine and apparently it's simply too old. The only one's they show are later models, so I suggest you contact the factory directly. Here's a link to the Hoshizaki "Contact Us" page. You can submit the form requesting a service manual for your machine:

http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/contact.asp

While you're there, sign up to gain access to more detailed technical info.

[raider94]

I dont know, it seem like every time you try to deal with these kind of people they give you the run around, when you deal with folks with more intel its always easier. I dont know why I even bother. If I would of been "in the know" and somebody would of asked me the same question, I would of gone into as much detail as possible, thats just the kind of person I am. After all, a hermetic compressor is a a hermetic compressor, with a service line, discharge and suction. Seems like if you were such an expert, you could of put out some pratical info instead of putting up a dead link. I think I handled this pretty well, and I learned a good lesson - dont come here anymore for any advice or help.

[frigetater]

oh well

[markettech]

...............I think someone just took his ball and stomped off towards home.:p

[david]

Ouch.. Oh my feelings are hurt


Well buck'0, let me just say this. Only an idiot would put a piercing valve in a hot gas line. So if the shoe fits! And if your boss sanctioned it, well there you go.

Seems that your computer savvy is about the same as working on ice makers too. Dead link? Did you even try to find Hoshi on the web or did you just give up wanting someone to do it for you? And the part about the Hoshi guys not wanting to help you over the phone. That's hogwash too.

You simply bring this on yourself. First asking stupid questions then getting ribbed for it and I might add... you got a lite dose of it compared some of the other really stupid posts around here by so called techs.

Personally I am glad you aren't going to seek advise on this site anymore. We help those who want help not whine about getting dead links or cry about some of the answers given. You got good advice on several threads but you choose to ignore them because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. Well, grow up and listen. Try reading them again. One day it will sink in when you have 30 years of experience if you last that long.

We've seen it time and time again, guys like you. You want someone to fix it for you, well, it just doesn't work that way on a talk forum. If you really want help then you should not come back here with your tear towel again but act like you have a set when you reply.

Will this soak in? I doubt it. You no doubt will come back and cry some more and even try your hand at some more stupid wit. If you want knowledge and are really interested in becoming an ice machine tech then shut up and listen to what you are told and stop coming here looking for some cheese with that whine.

[raider94]

HA HA HA. Just as I thought. You all didnt have much to say when I put that question out there, but oh boy do you now! Look at all of ya comin out, after I called you what you are, that is a bunch of losers with no self esteem. I knew it, never fails with people like this. Dude, you aint all that. Belive me, where I work, its a challenge, and we dont have access to schools, seminars, even text are hard to get. HVAC is just one of several hats I wear, and Im new to it. Information should flow freely, not be guarded like its some teritory. Ive noticed this alot with people who dont push themselves. Anyways, I had to put this out there. You have a nice day now!:)

[markettech]

We have several ice makers at where I work. There are serivice lines on the compressors. My boss said to put the blue hose from the manifold guage on the service line to check for pressure, since the service line is for the discharge side of the system. He said if there was refridgerant in the system, we should of got a pressure reading on the suction guage. His diagnosis was that the system had a leak in it because the reading was low. I latter went back and felt the line where it entered the evaporator and it was very cold. I dont feel his diagnosis was correct. What is the correct way to read and hook up the guages in a situation like this? He only installed a piercing valve on the service tube from the compressor. Thank you.




Btw, never put hoses on a machine unless you are 100% positive it is a refrigeration problem. Every time you put on gages you will loose a bit of the factory critical charge and, yes, then it will be a problem.


Sounds as if you need to download a manual, spend some time reading/studying, or just call in a guy that knows how to fix the thing.


Perhaps if you came back and posted some of the units M# & S/N's we can get you some link info that you can read up on after hours. There is alot to be observed on a I/M way before putting on a set of guages. And if you had to check,only use a single compound guage for the B.P. and head. Never use a manifold set on a critical charge system. Come back here and post when you've got the info.


The major problem I see here is that you may not know how to answer such questions without some training and you will not get that here simply on this thread. A download manual will help you understand the machines operations, pressures, cycle times and so on.

As far as a piercing valve. They are used only as a temporary measure to removed refrigerant from a system before you sweat in a permanent valve. Piercing valves leak, they leak more so on hot lines under pressure. They seal by using rubber to hold sometimes over 300 lbs of pressure and hot oil. So if you boss says this is a leaker it is probably the piercing valves.

So start by doing this... get us those numbers and tell us what is going on so we can set up a base line for service. If need be we can find you the manual and give you a link to download it.


Don't get discouraged, but crawl before you walk. Get you some training, go to every class you can find, listen and ask questions. Then proceed only when you are ready. BTW, commercial ice machines are not the best place to start, these things can be a challenge even for the really old guys like Lusker.



A 1980 R-12 :( Well just sit down and sign up and read. www.hoshizakiamerica.com (http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/) Me thinks sammy should spend some of our $$$.
..............And this link works, I tried it.


at 27 years, that machine is at almost 4 times it expected life. time to send it off to the big scrap heap in the sky.


I have search the Hoshizaki site's listings for a manual for your IM-Series machine and apparently it's simply too old. The only one's they show are later models, so I suggest you contact the factory directly. Here's a link to the Hoshizaki "Contact Us" page. You can submit the form requesting a service manual for your machine:

http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/contact.asp

You were asked (more than once) to give specific information or ask specific questions regarding the problem you are/were having.

You were also treated with respect in that several people gave you great suggestions based upon the extremely limited information provided.

And then you've got a set so big that you come back here and spit in our face?

You are an absolute piece of work. A government job seems to fit your personality perfectly.


.........................And...................... ...


You're Welcome
You ungrateful............

[k-fridge]

Good job Markettech.

[luskys a/c]

Hey cuz:cool: How the hell are ya? Long time no talk. The super bowl was a let down for me and I only lost 10 bucks so I am not that bad. You would think that our fine Goverment would train these guys at the most prestiges schools. I do have a question...I have been using my manifold gauges for years charging critical systems but I also always wiegh in my charge and use the systems sight glass as a double check. Sometimes the critical charge dosen't always clear the sight glass. Why can't I use my manifolds?

[luskys a/c]

I missed the 2nd page and the 3rd before I posted. So I wanted to give some thought to Mr. Raider
I can tell that you are hurting inside my son. Its ok that you don't know enough to solve your problem. It's ok that your boss has a quarter of his brain missing and you have to learn from somebody who still dosen't know the diff. between high and low sides.
Let your anger flow out of you like the wind in your bosses pants. We are here for you now. We can help. You just have to take that thumb out of your mouth and let us start you out right.
First, you need to be willing to learn anything and everything till you depart from this world.
Second, you need to shut your mouth so your mind can listen.(my favorite)
Last but not least, you need to respect other people and what they do for you because if everybody that was in this thread and yourself were sitting at a conference table and you came to the table with your problem I garantee!!!! you would have presented yourself differently.

- think before you speak -